Brand Loyalty - Brand Preference?

[Jeff Erbele]

Do you tend to stick to one brand in woodworking machinery and power tools?

Or when considering buying a machine or power tool, do you consider all available with little prejudice towards a particular brand?

[joseph dake]

For power tools of the non machine variety i am a strict dewalt fan. I have beat up more dewalt stuff on commerial job sites than any other brand and thy keep going. As for woodworking tools i try to buy the top rated tool. I will say that i just bought the grizzly 513anv and love it so i will look at what they offer when i need something else

[scott spencer]

Many brand names are just used for marketing in today's tool world. Many of the tools are eerily similar, and from the same factory with different "bolt-ons". I have little brand loyalty and make them earn my money every time I shop for a new tool. Sticking with one brand is a good recipe for paying more without ensuring that you're getting more for the money.

[Ryan Myers]

I am an electrician (a heavy commercial user of power tools) by trade and I've been using Milwaukee power tools almost exclusively for the past twenty years. I've tried Dewalt, Rigid, Makita and I still go back to Milwaukee. Their products in my opinion are the most well built and durable. And they stand behind them. Can't speak for Milwaukee products picked up at the Borg. I've always purchased mine through a Milwaukee tool dealer or an electrical wholesale place. That used to be the only way you could buy them. My dad was an electrician too and he has given me some corded power tools he bought back in the early 70s and there still going strong. I to date have never worn out a Milwaukee tool. And when my batteries failed on my cordless tools they replaced them free of charge and they were a couple months past their warranty period. Their service is top notch. So you could say I'm pretty loyal to the Milwaukee brand.

As for my small woodworking tools I have lots of Porter Cable nailers, jigsaw, sanders and really like them. Also have some Dewalt sanders and corded drills. Not a huge fan of HF tools, but I have a few and they've held up.

I have a Dewalt 735 planer and it's alright, but I don't think it's anything special. Would like to upgrade it. Have a mixture of brands on my other stationary equipment. I have HF dust collector I bought new for $135 and it gets the job done. I bought a Grizzly 10" cabinet saw about 7 years ago and I think it is a very well built machine. I truly think it is a better saw than my father in laws Unisaw. I personally consider Grizzly a top contender (others will disagree) in the machinery market while I will agree Jet, Powermatic, General, and Italian made equipment is probably a step above. I would like best top names in equipment but I have a wife and two younger kids so woodworking equipment is a low priority in the family finances. Especially with a wife who gripes that I have way too many tools already and is always suggesting that I should sell some (yeah right, my tools are like my children too). I would like some Festool items, but justifying buying a $750 small tool over buying my kids something they need or would benefit from would be a hard decision. I think everyone has a unique situation in what they consider important in a tool purchase, for me I just described it all above. That is why having a variety of manufacturers with different price points to choose from is a good thing.

[Matt Day]

For machinery I prefer Used, Old, and Inexpensive, power tools I prefer On Sale. I don't care what color any of them are, though rust tends to be the cheapest!

[Jack Burgess]

I had a perhaps unusual situation. I saved my money for several years and when the time for retirement came I have been looking for several months and had planned to start buying what I preceived to be the best units that I could affort for my small hobby - toymaking. In the process of looking I happened to go by SEARS (OH GOODNESS !) and looked at their products. There were some fair price differences BUT as if happened they were having the "Friends and Family Night" the following night. There was already a 15% disc sale in effect - tomorrow night after 10:00 every tool was an ADDITIONAL 25% off - so I decided to go all the way and get all at SEARS - with the discounted warranty also. It has been two years and every tool has been performing excellent except the band saw and they UPGRADED me to the larger more industrial size after problems. I get automatic service every 6 months for three years for a little less than $90 a year ! I consider that to be a bargan for me since I am NOT a mechinical fixer and do not want to risk used equipment. I have so many friends that have various companies for different machines and they are constantly looking for service centers, etc and paying service calls.

The level of products that I purchased (Bande Saw, radial arm saw, router, drill press, and table saw) have been adequate and have been performing OK. They get serviced every 6 months. I do have a HF 6" belt sander that has been great. I understand that the Sears woodworking tools do not have a great reputation with experienced wood workers but they have been more that adequate for my hobby, which has about turned into a business with the shows that I have been attending. I tend to believe that the nature for the items that are you normal wood working will dictate the quality of the tools.

[John TenEyck]

For stationary machines it's used equipment all the way for me. With rare exceptions new stationary machines are no better and usually worse than old American (or Canadian, or Swiss, or German, or Italian) machines. Notice what area of the world I did not include. For power hand tools, I don't have all that much loyalty, however, over the years I've been happy with every Bosch tool I've purchased and, as a result, I own more of them than any other brand.

John

[Jeff Duncan]

I've come to terms with the fact that.......well......I'm a tool snob:eek: Not b/c I want to show them off or rub them in peoples faces mind you, but b/c I use them everyday to make a living. So I prefer to buy the best quality I can afford....and sometimes even when I can't afford it! I've found I enjoy my work more when I get to use really good equipment every day. I don't necessarily have brand loyalty, though there are certain names I generally prefer. However I don't believe there's any one company that made a full line of machines better than everyone else. So if I'm looking for a certain machine I do a little homework and see who made the better ones. Then I have a selection to keep an eye out for. As such currently I have roughly 18 different large equipment manufacturers represented in my shop from at least 7 different countries. And FWIW there's no single company that manufactures all the equipment I have, so it couldn't be an option anyway;)

JeffD

[Chris Fournier]

I wouldn't say that I am brand loyal exactly but I certainly do use my experience with tools/machinery in my shop to begin making decisions about future purchases. I have had 3 SCM machines, all of them have been terrific, I look to SCM first but then broaden my scope to their rival manufacturers.

There is no one manufacturer that knocks out the best of everything so I have several colours in my shop. I try to buy the best that I can and I'm willing to look in new directions.

On a couple of occasions, early on in this pursuit I bought poor quality tools, or simply compromised and bought a second or third choice. I never do that now, it is too expensive in the long run and very unrewarding.

[David Hawkins]

I tend to have more bias against certain brands than for specific brands. Sort of a burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.... I don't necessarily auto-reject a brand but I tend to shop with a bag of salt in the car.....

Does it have features I need = (++) Does it have features that I won't use = (-) I need to see how it will make me money/save me time/improve quality etc. before I buy.

[glenn bradley]

Brand Loyalty - Brand Preference?



My brand loyalty is dead and gone. My brand preference depends on what specific tool you are talking about and what period in history you are talking about. I'm not trying to be negative or vague but, the "darlings" of the moment do come and go as consistent quality of a certain badge no longer exists. Even the high dollar Ialian and German folks have their also-ran's.


So if I'm looking for a certain machine I do a little homework and see who made the better ones. Then I have a selection to keep an eye out for.

Spoken like a man who's been there and back ;-)

[John Sanford]

Brand preferences, yes. Brand loyalty, no.

Yes, I do go into any purchasing decision with a list of contenders, and with a firm list of exclusions. The exclusions vary by tool or machine, and they change based on when the tool/machine was produced.

[Mr Mike Mills]

I try to keep similar tools that same. I am in High School educational setting. I have all dewalt cordless drills including right angle drill so that we only need 1 type of charger laying around. and all batteries are interchangeable. For my purposes I try to have a variety of different quality brand for the students to use and experience. Porter cable Belt and 1/2 sheet finish sander, Mikita orbital sanders - Mikita has one of the lighter of the electric orbital sanders at the time i purchased 15 of them, My router both fixed base and plunge are all dewalt so that the wrenches and collets are interchangeable. I like the porter cable brad nailers because the tip come open with a little clip to clean out jams. But I have a Bostitch pin nailer,

My experience is if you are buying a good quality brand does not really matter which brand. often you get what you pay for. but it is important to look in to brand specific features. again back to my sanders. They were the lightest in their category at the time I purchased. the only problem with them I have had was the hook and loop pads. The students would work them to hard or long and melt the hooks.

[Roger Feeley]

I tend to look in Fine Woodworking and Wood Magazine for the most recent tests and I try to buy the best of breed.

I do stay away from anything carrying the Craftsman label. I got burned years ago by Sears when I bought a tilting head bandsaw that stopped tilting just after it was out of warranty. No support from Sears.

[Tom Giacomo]

I have no brand loyalty but I have noticed lately that my shop is slowly becoming that Milwaukee red color.

[Jim Andrew]

The area I live is not a traditional woodworking area, so there is hardly any old iron available here. So I have a unisaw, and one Bridgewood sander, and the rest is Grizzly. My cordless tools are Makita, Dewalt, Bosch. I have several Hitachi tools, and find them very good. Have an old framing nailer, it has yet to have one O ring to be replaced. Picked up a new angle grinder on sale at Menards, and find their electric tools to be just excellent. My brand loyalty has come about by the life of the tools. Have a few old cman tools, but they do not stand up.

[Cary Falk]

I have found that you can't stick wit one company for everything. There are some companies that when you hear their name you think of one or 2 specific tools . There are a few companies that I try to avoid at all costs. I try to buy the best I can afford in each tool category. I have quite the range of tool colors.

[Rick Potter]

30 years ago, I would have said Craftsman. 15 years ago I would have said Delta and PC. Now, I have a whole spectrum of colors, big ones still predominantly grey, but the new saw is black.


Rick Potter

[Jeff Erbele]

Jack,

Your unusual situation is similar to mine. Sometime next year after our new house and my shop is complete, I plan on buying most of the major woodworking machines and a lot of other shop equipment, tools and accessories. For me it is a once in a lifetime event. It is the reason I posed the question.

Growing up, my Dad had an ever-growing affinity with Craftsmen mechanic tools because of the lifetime no-hassle warranty. That had an influence on me in my early years of buying my own tools. As a home-owner and hobbyist, Craftsmen is a contender, often providing a good solution for the price. For me the thing was my career was in the heavy industrial repair world and in my spare time it was near the commercial level of building remodeling. Later, building maintenance & remodeling because my full-time business.

I migrated away from Craftsmen, but still have some hand tools and a few power tools that just won't wear out or die. After Craftsman, I started buying Milwaukee, Hilti, DeWalt, Porter Cable, Bosch power tools and Ingersoll Rand air tools. In the machine shop, Starrett was it but Mitutoyo worked just as well and I bought both depending on my budget. I always drooled over Snap-On, but Cornwell serviced our shop and provided the same level of quality.

If a tool or machine gets the job done satisfactorily and fits your budget, who's to say it isn't good enough or the perfect solution. Besides 40% percnent off is tough to argue with.

Look at you; you have a whole shop full of what you want, are having fun with a hobby which is nearing a business; as much or as little as you want it to be. You spent X dollars and the next guy may have the same money in only one machine.

We differ in the mechanical repair area. That was my career. I can repair the parts or machine new ones, fix most anything short of bearings, belts and seals. While I could do it, I have little patience with machines that need fixing or repairing routinely. I never buy an extended warranty. Its just not right for me.

The first woodworking machine I bought was a Shopsmith, a 5 in 1 multipurpose machine, table saw, disc sander, turning lathe, drill press and horizontal boring mill. It is marketed as the best thing since sliced bread; a cure-all end-all solution to all your woodworking needs, with the optional machines, band saw, scroll saw, planer, router, belt sander and maybe more today. The truth is it does some things very well and others not well at all. Some might view it as a joke of a machine, on the other hand there are a lot of them all over the country with a big following by dedicated and happy users. After I saw my first demo in 1979, I had to have one. I saved as I recall $2,600 after 10 months and finally achieved my dream. It was a long 10 months for me. I used it for 20 years and finally had to sell it because I had no time for it, was moving and had no place for it, plus money was short at the time. I sold it for $800. Recently I bought one just slightly newer than the first one, with a lot more accessories, including a planer, router, mortiser and dadoo set and a Foley Belsaw Sharp All for $700. For the money it provides lot of capabilities in one small package. I plan to keep and use it, although the table saw may be the least used, followed by the disc sander. I am most impressed with the drilling capabilities and will suffice as a turning lathe unless I take a more serious interest in that. Otherwise I plan on buying other brands of each stand alone machine.

On the Shopsmith table saw, sawing most miters is an easy task. As the table tilts instead of the blade, sawing miters can be a bit tricky, a bit risky to down right dangerous, to totally impossible depending on the size of the sheet, or the length of other stock. I re-bought one because of what it does well; the rest I will do on other machines.

[Jeff Erbele]

I am an electrician (a heavy commercial user of power tools) by trade and I've been using Milwaukee power tools almost exclusively for the past twenty years. I've tried Dewalt, Rigid, Makita and I still go back to Milwaukee. Their products in my opinion are the most well built and durable. And they stand behind them. Can't speak for Milwaukee products picked up at the Borg. I've always purchased mine through a Milwaukee tool dealer or an electrical wholesale place. That used to be the only way you could buy them. My dad was an electrician too and he has given me some corded power tools he bought back in the early 70s and there still going strong. I to date have never worn out a Milwaukee tool. And when my batteries failed on my cordless tools they replaced them free of charge and they were a couple months past their warranty period. Their service is top notch. So you could say I'm pretty loyal to the Milwaukee brand.

As for my small woodworking tools I have lots of Porter Cable nailers, jigsaw, sanders and really like them. Also have some Dewalt sanders and corded drills. Not a huge fan of HF tools, but I have a few and they've held up.

I have a Dewalt 735 planer and it's alright, but I don't think it's anything special. Would like to upgrade it. Have a mixture of brands on my other stationary equipment. I have HF dust collector I bought new for $135 and it gets the job done. I bought a Grizzly 10" cabinet saw about 7 years ago and I think it is a very well built machine. I truly think it is a better saw than my father in laws Unisaw. I personally consider Grizzly a top contender (others will disagree) in the machinery market while I will agree Jet, Powermatic, General, and Italian made equipment is probably a step above. I would like best top names in equipment but I have a wife and two younger kids so woodworking equipment is a low priority in the family finances. Especially with a wife who gripes that I have way too many tools already and is always suggesting that I should sell some (yeah right, my tools are like my children too). I would like some Festool items, but justifying buying a $750 small tool over buying my kids something they need or would benefit from would be a hard decision. I think everyone has a unique situation in what they consider important in a tool purchase, for me I just described it all above. That is why having a variety of manufacturers with different price points to choose from is a good thing.

I am rather new at SMC and just reviving my long-standing interest in woodworking, one I have taken about a 15 year break from due to circumstances. It was here I learned of several of the wood-related brands I never heard of before, some from the banner ads, some from the posts.
Side Bar Note - yes I plan on becoming a contributor to SMC, but making the banner ads go away is not a big motivator for me yet, because for me right now it helps to learn about various suppliers and brands.

I find your comments interesting as one of the first post I read here was a revived, year old thread about somebody's bad experience with a Powermatic DP. I was seriously thinking about that DP. The fact that a machine left the factory with serious problems did not bother me much. From the description of the symptoms and the video posted, I knew what was wrong with the drive press, variable speed assembly, and could have easily fixed it if it were mine. What bothered me was the wrong advice provided by the customer service department and really bad customer service otherwise, specifically taking over 3 months to ship a replacement machine.

I find it interesting that you mentioned Jet as one of the better quality brands. My background is in heavy metal, as in some of the worlds' largest machinery. In the machine shop Jet was a joke by every measure except price and that told you what you were getting. Everybody groaned when they had to use one. Everybody pleaded with management to buy no more and to replace those we had with something that worked at all.

Maybe they improved, maybe todays' Jet woodworking equipment is much better than yesterdays' machine tooling equipment. I'll take a closer look with an open mind.

[glenn bradley]

I find it interesting that you mentioned Jet as one of the better quality brands. My background is in heavy metal, as in some of the worlds' largest machinery. In the machine shop Jet was a joke by every measure except price and that told you what you were getting. Everybody groaned when they had to use one. Everybody pleaded with management to buy no more and to replace those we had with something that worked at all.

Maybe they improved, maybe todays' Jet woodworking equipment is much better than yesterdays' machine tooling equipment. I'll take a closer look with an open mind.

It depends on your ruler. In a heavy iron shop, consumer grade tools are gong to look like toys. I wouldn't compare a $15,000 machine to a $1,500 one as equals. In someone's garage, a Saw Stop PCS or a Grizzly G1023 looks like a heavy duty piece of gear. On the job site where 5 yard dump trucks zip around like mosquitoes a Ford F-350 looks like a toy ;-).

[Jeff Erbele]

I wouldn't say that I am brand loyal exactly but I certainly do use my experience with tools/machinery in my shop to begin making decisions about future purchases. I have had 3 SCM machines, all of them have been terrific, I look to SCM first but then broaden my scope to their rival manufacturers.

There is no one manufacturer that knocks out the best of everything so I have several colours in my shop. I try to buy the best that I can and I'm willing to look in new directions.

On a couple of occasions, early on in this pursuit I bought poor quality tools, or simply compromised and bought a second or third choice. I never do that now, it is too expensive in the long run and very unrewarding.

Same here, Early on I bought a few no-quality mechanic tools enticed by the cheap price. They weren't worth taking home for free. The good thing was, it only took a few and little money to learn not to do it again.

[Rod Sheridan]

Previously my shop was almost all General, however ove the last 6 years I've replaced 4 General machines with 2 Hammer machines.

It's not a brand preference, it's a capability and capacity preference.

I also have a Craftsman drill press, an Oneida cyclone, an old Rockwell lathe, an old Powermatic 18" bandsaw and a General International 17" bandsaw.

Regards, Rod.

[Duane Meadows]

I do stay away from anything carrying the Craftsman label. I got burned years ago by Sears when I bought a tilting head bandsaw that stopped tilting just after it was out of warranty. No support from Sears.

That tilting head bandsaw is what I consider a "gimmick" tool. I stay away from that kind of stuff no matter who sells it! Pretty much guaranteed to be discontinued and orphaned. That said Craftsman has built many quality tools as well. I have several that have performed flawlessly for many years.

As for "Brand Loyalty"? No one makes the "best" everything. As mentioned before, "best" changes all the time.

One thing I do avoid like the plague, is anything with cast aluminum tables, trunnions, etc.

[Patrick Grady]

I have some mild brand loyalties but I form attachments to my particular tools and service and repair them. For that reason parts availability and service information, both print and web, are very important to me. I consider the quality of user manuals to be integral with the quality of the tool. My 1975 Craftsman circ saw lasted 35 years. I like Milwaukee power tools. I have had fairly good experiences with HF tools (I imagine that there are separate threads regarding HF tools but one baffling characteristic is that on the same tool or machine some parts will be well-built while others, often minor pieces, will be inferior quality or poorly designed). Repairing tools provides perspective on what to watch for in second hand tools - I would never buy a used hammer drill or anything pneumatic or anything with complex electronic motor drives for which replacement info and boards were not available at reasonable prices. Advancements in motor winding, battery, and materials technology tend to antiquate some lines of tools, especially power tools. My opinion, the elephants in the cost benefit equation which equals brand loyalty are support and parts.

[Craig Behnke]

I have no blind loyalty preference, it's more about what tool offers the best performance for the dollar and for my particular need. i'm just a hobby woodworker, so I don't need heavy production tools, and I don't have a ton of spare time so I need things that work great and are built to repeatedly work great for a long time with minimal re-set up and re-tinkering to align or dial in.

I don't mind paying up for an incredibly well designed, well engineered, well manufactured tool that will last for many years and perform at very high level of precision and repeatability when maintained properly.

I wish i did, but I just i don't have the time or skill to rebuild/salvage old iron, so I tend to buy new stuff from brands that have a well deserved reputation for outstanding products. As with all things in life, there is a trade off and higher quality materials and fit/finish costs more...oh well.

Firms like Jessem, Incra, Festool, Woodpeck, Hammer, Felder, etc. I have found those brands offer tools that are very well designed and made and use top of the line materials.

I didn't buy those brands when I first started woodworking, but as I researched and improved at this hobby, I gravitated to those brands.

The minute one of those brands start to produce poor products, i'd migrate away from them and find a firm to replace them.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, I have tended to stick with particular brands over time. Usually, that's because of good experiences, good reputations or purely subjective "I love this stuff" type reasons. :)

[Brad Cambell]

My brand loyalty is long gone. Gone when they decided to move their factories to China for profits.

I buy "Old Iron", made in the USA. The machines are more robust and don't have stamped components.