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View Full Version : Welding Welder choices - Miller 211, Miller 180, or Lincoln 180



Jon McElwain
11-01-2013, 2:04 PM
So, I've been looking at these three welders and am having a tough time coming up with the right one. Price wise, the two 180 machines are close to the same price but the 211 is a couple hundred more, the Miller 180 does not have dual voltage but it does have auto set, the Lincoln does not have auto set (seriously cool feature) but it does have dual voltage, both companies are offering good sale prices at the moment - Miller gives 15% if you buy at least $150 in accessories (which I will definitely need) and Lincoln gives a accessory package or $100 off the 180.

My debate is this. The Miller 180 is not a dual voltage. I'm set up for 110 or 220 with plenty of amperage to run either, but I may want to take this someplace that does not have 220. The Lincoln 180 has dual voltage, but does not have Auto-Set. Being a hobbyist, the auto-set feature is going to reduce my learning curve significantly. The Miller 211 has both auto-set and dual voltage. My local welding shop is throwing in a free Argon/CO2 tank and a free 4 hour class whichever welder I choose.

I'm leaning toward the Miller 211 because it seems like this machine will do all that I need for a very long time. But is paying over $200 extra worth it?

Hoping the voice of experience will chime in here. Also, I'm not interested in Hobart (Miller's low end brand) or other brands, I'm really just interested in comments related to the Miller 211, 180, or Lincoln 180.

Thank all!!

Keith Outten
11-01-2013, 3:40 PM
Jon,

Wish I could be helpful concerning your welding machine decision. I was in the same boat early this year and I ended up buying a Miller Multimatic 200 for my sign shop.

The 211 seems to be a good machine and they are popular. I like the auto set and the dual power features on my machine, you won't think about the added cost for very long but you will miss them every time you use the machine for years to come if you decide against the 211.

Eric DeSilva
11-01-2013, 4:43 PM
Happy 211 owner here. If you are just starting, buy a pile of extra tips for your wire size...

Brian W Smith
11-02-2013, 5:03 AM
Seriously not trying to sound like a jerk.......but 200$ is really small money in welding "world".Not saying this isn't hardearned $$,and wanting to consider all options.Just saying,by and large....the amt of "work" turned out by welding equip,it's "payback" if you will....usually proves buying better,little higher end stuff going in,makes your job a whole lot easier down the rd.

I really don't care for the bigger is better attitude that infests a lot of buying decisions.And it's sort of true with welding equip.......but,if there ever was a case for it,welding would be one.So,not only would I drop the extra 200,but would seriously be looking up the ladder(at least "looking")at even bigger equip.

The class your dealer is offering is a huge step in the right direction,whatever you decide on equip.Not only take and enjoy the class,but really question the instructors on more advanced "schooling".See what they offer....keep them as contacts,letting them know of your keen interest in "affordable" schools or even local mentors on the subject.

Keith Outten
11-02-2013, 7:17 AM
I agree with Brian but we all understand the impact a constrained budget can have on our purchasing decisions. If this is the case and Jon has already stretched to get to the 211 then stepping up another rung on the ladder might be impossible.

Welding machines are, in my mind, much like CNC Routers in that they are capable of an ROI that can lift your sprits :) I stretched my budget when I purchased the Multimatic 200 but I wanted all three processes even though I don't plan to use the TIG capability much. This machine isn't one that you would weld with all day long either but it fits the bill for a small sign shop perfectly. My jobs are varied but never big welding productions so the smaller more versatile machine is just the ticket.

I had one of the Hobart Handler's that ran on 110 volts in the past and was never happy with the MIG machine. I won't give it a bad review because I don't have the experience to do so but it seems to me that 220 volts makes a difference in weld quality in at least some cases. My new machine running on 220 volts runs smooth as glass compared to any welder I have used which I admit is just a couple other machines and I own a Bobcat 250 that can handle larger stick welding jobs with ease. I purchased the Bobcat mostly for the generator, I decided to buy a generator/welder because it seemed to be a better value in my case.

My point is that if the 211 fits the need it may be the best value of the three machines Jon is considering.

In any case I can't imagine being without a welder and I am a big fan of Miller equipment.
.

Charles McKinley
11-02-2013, 11:19 PM
I would get the 211. In the long run you will be happier with it. The added features and the added duty cycle will be worth it in the long run.

In the dark ages auto set was called pulse arc (Lincoln). It is simply amazing how much technology has advances it the last 20+ years. Yes, starting out I think this will be a worthwhile feature.

Do you plan on doing any aluminum work? The 180s advertise they will do it but your retailer will tell you they are too small. Again a plus for the 211. Sounds like you have a good store.

To echo what Kieth said 110 is underpowered for anything but the thinnest sheet metal.

Enjoy your new machine!

Jon McElwain
11-05-2013, 12:13 AM
buy a pile of extra tips for your wire size...
Will Do Eric!


...200$ is really small money in welding "world".Not saying this isn't hardearned $$,and wanting to consider all options.

...I drop the extra 200,but would seriously be looking up the ladder(at least "looking")at even bigger equip.

...Not only take and enjoy the class,but really question the instructors on more advanced "schooling".
Thanks Brian - Much more than the money, I want something that will be useful for a long time. If I were to try to step up to the next larger machine after the 211, well, that does become a cost issue. I'm not ready to drop 2K into this just yet! I'm looking forward to the class. The supply store offers the one free class, but they also have many others that are $50 each. The $50 gets you an instructor from the local community college welding program, 4 hours of class time, and hands-on welding. They offer beginner and advanced MIG, TIG, Stick, Plasma, Oxy Acetylene, etc. At $50 each, I ca see my Saturday calender filling up quick!



... stepping up another rung on the ladder might be impossible.

Welding machines are, in my mind, much like CNC Routers in that they are capable of an ROI that can lift your spirts...

I had one of the Hobart Handler's that ran on 110 volts in the past and was never happy with the MIG machine..... My new machine running on 220 volts runs smooth as glass compared to any welder I have used...

In any case I can't imagine being without a welder and I am a big fan of Miller equipment.
.
Thanks Keith - As I said above, next rung up the ladder is a BIG jump. When I started this line of thought, I was looking at a Hobart 140. I better stop at the 211 while I'm ahead!! :D I do not make any money with any of my tools, but that has never stopped me from spending money on them. My ROI may be limited financially, but i sure like having the capability that good quality tools afford. As I started my research, it became quickly apparent that 220 volts was a minimum threshold. Also, glad to hear from an enthusiastic Miller user!



I would get the 211....

Sounds like you have a good store.
The 211 really does seem like the best option. I guess I was foolishly thinking that perhaps someone would attempt to persuade me to spend less on this purchase! What was I thinking?!? :D:rolleyes: Anyway, the welding store is great. The more I talk to the guys there, the more I like it. They are all welders (the other store in town had some lackey who just wanted to write up a quote), they really know their machines, they are patient and seem to really enjoy talking about welding. "General Air" for anyone in the Colorado Front Range...

David Brimm
11-06-2013, 2:44 AM
I went from a Hobart 140 to a Lincoln 180 and now have the Miller 211 and while they're all great machines (the Hobart too) the 211 is worth the extra money IMO. It's got all the features you could want, more power for if/when you need it and works well with a spool gun for pulling aluminum if you ever have the need. The build quality is top notch, you can feel good about buying a machine that's still made (really) in the USA and get Millers great service and support as well.

No affiliation with Miller or any of the other brands just a satisfied customer. :)

Keith Outten
11-06-2013, 8:15 AM
David,

Do you have the spool gun for your welder?
I am planning to purchase one Friday.
.

David Brimm
11-06-2013, 12:27 PM
David,

Do you have the spool gun for your welder?
I am planning to purchase one Friday.
.

I don't, I almost bought it with the machine but cheaped out in the end. My brother has one though and I borrowed his a while back when I wanted to try a job using it.. worked pretty dang well. Generally speaking I prefer to do aluminum work with my TIG but it's good to know the spool gun is an option if you need to put down a lot of metal fast.

Charles McKinley
11-06-2013, 10:48 PM
Hi Keith,

Your Bobcat should have the plugs to hook the spoolgun up to it as well for doing onsite repairs. Talk to the rep and make sure it is going to do what you need it to off of your 200. I have a Miller 180 and they sell the spool gun for it but the rep said it doesn't have the power needed to run aluminium. Do you have a TIG set up?

What is the intended use for the spool gun?

Keith Outten
11-07-2013, 9:06 AM
Charles,

The Miller Multimatic 200 I purchased is a MIG, TIG, Stick machine. I did purchase the TIG kit with the machine, the only option I know of that I didn't get was a spool gun. I'm told that I can't TIG weld aluminum with the new welder because it doesn't have DC in TIG mode. Thanks for the tip about making sure that the spool gun will work with my Bobcat.

I have never welded aluminum but I could see myself adjusting my sign hanger designs if I can teach myself and have the right tools for the job. I do have a need to weld an aluminum flag pole that someone gave me awhile back. Its a commercial pole that I had to cut in half to transport it home. I have tried to find someone to weld it for me but no luck, even my cousin who is a pipe welder in the Shipyard can't find the time to come to my shop and help me out so I have decided to do it myself.

I spent over half my life as a welding inspector and I have worked with some of the best welders in the business. I know what a good weld is and what it looks like BUT holding a stinger, MIG gun or TIG Torch in you own hands is not welding inspection. I had a very old Miller Thunderbolt AC buzz box for 20 years, I gave it to my neighbor when I got the new welder. Welding 6013 with the buzz box wasn't pretty but my Dad and I built some pretty cool farm implements, shop stands, carts and trailers over the years. Welding for yourself at home is a far cry from being a professional, I learned that welds don't have to be perfect for home projects they just need to get the job done.

Before my Dad passed away he would always grab the stinger when we started a welding job in the shop. He was a Piping Supervisor in the Shipyard his whole life and spent many years as a welder. He loved to weld more than anything so I did the design and had to cut and fit so he could do all the welding :) Now I work alone so the welding work is my task and even though I am basically a hobby welder I enjoy my success and failures none the less. Being a novice welder means I am almost an expert with a grinder :)

I have a brand new Miller 625 Extreme plasma torch I haven't even had out of the box yet so I'm looking for a project so I can try out the torch.
.

Ted Calver
11-07-2013, 11:28 AM
Learning to weld has been on my bucket list for a while, so when Miller had that great 15% sale earlier this year I purchased the Multimatic 200 and the spool gun. I was going to get the TIG kit but shied away after the LWC guy said it would not TIG aluminum. Haven't had a chance to try the spool gun out yet (need a tank of Argon) so I can't comment on the gun. If I want to TIG aluminum it looks like I need another machine, so rather than just getting the TIG kit for the 200 I'll look for a DC machine that can do both. Have you had a chance to play with your TIG kit yet Keith?

Jon McElwain
11-08-2013, 3:07 PM
Learning to weld has been on my bucket list for a while, so when Miller had that great 15% sale earlier this year I purchased the Multimatic 200 and the spool gun.

Yeah, that 15% deal is still on - that was what prompted me to take the plunge. I need one more month of tool budget before I can pull the trigger though (no pun intended)!

Keith Outten
11-08-2013, 7:58 PM
Ted,

I haven't used the TIG torch yet but I hope to find some time real soon. Maybe a job will come up that I will need to do some TIG welding that will move it up on my shop schedule :)

I have been stick welding with my new machine lately, just finished an exterior sign for Saint Mary's School that I had to build a custom frame for the sign and installed it late yesterday. The sign was installed right on the waters edge so I decided to use 1" by 1" by 3/16" angle iron for the frame.

I am using 80/20 argon CO2 for MIG welding and I need to get a bottle of pure argon for the new spool gun. I didn't get the chance to go to Hampton this morning so it will be Monday before I can get the new spool gun.

I use to work with Dallas Quick many years ago, if you don't know the name he was one of the premiere Welders / Welding Engineers in the world. He retired from Newport News Shipbuilding and came to work with us at North Anna Power Station in the late 70's in the Vepco Welding Engineers Group. Dallas shared some of his secrets with me that he would never share publicly about TIG welding. I hope to be able to try a couple of his tricks in the near term. Dallas was the first man to ever weld copper, he developed the technique at the Shipyard for a Navy project.
.

Keith Outten
11-08-2013, 8:01 PM
Jon,

I got my machine on the Build With Blue discount when it first started. Maybe you will have your new machine by Christmas.
Good Luck!
.

Ted Calver
11-08-2013, 10:07 PM
Keith,
You are fortunate to have known Dallas Quick and been able to tap into his repertoire of welding skills. I have been looking for an adult ed welding class to get me started and just discovered that a gentleman who is a welding supervisor at the ship yard lives two doors down. I plan to ask for a little help when I can get my set up finished. I need some argon to test out the spool gun too.

Keith Outten
11-09-2013, 8:15 AM
Ted,

Dallas and I were a team at North Anna, we worked together almost every day. Every welder on the job knew Dallas and respected his expertise. He lived in Newport News just a couple blocks from Casey Chevrolet and had a temporary residence in Louisa County near the power plant.

Jim Shook was also at North Anna, he was a welding supervisor. Jim was considered to be one of the top ten welders that ever worked at the Shipyard. It was rare but when we had a weld that required stacked mirrors the union looked the other way and let Jim do the work. I used to watch Jim pull EB rings on Reactor Coolant piping, it always made my day to watch him weld especially when I got the chance to assist him watching the ID when he pulled an EB ring.

At the time I had no idea how lucky I was to be part of the welding group at North Anna and later at Surry. My Dad was a member of this group, the best of the best the Shipyard ever produced. He knew every one of these guys, worked with all of them in the Yard. I worked with Cliff Poole at Surry on a silver braze project that was near impossible to accomplish. My Dad recommended Cliff to me for the job on the silver braze system, told me he was the best in the business and it was true. My Dad taught Cliff how to braze pipe.

Seems like a million years ago now.
.

Julian Tracy
11-09-2013, 10:28 PM
Probably get stomped on for this, but check the duty cycle ratings of the units you are considering. I have a firepower unit made by Themadyne and was surprised to find out the duty cycle on my unit was much much higher than the comparable Lincoln or Miller welders.

Odd thing is, you don't hear much about them and they can be had very inexpensively compared to the big two...

Might be worth a check.

JT

Keith Outten
11-10-2013, 1:01 AM
Julian,

That's good advice, complying with the manufacturers recommended duty cycle is a must but it isn't always easy to do. My old Miller buzz box had a copper transformer and we never considered the duty cycle. These days the machines, particularly the light duty machines, can be damaged much easier so if a short duty cycle is a problem it should be part of the purchasing decision.

Stick welding on the Miller Multimatic 200 the duty cycle at 150 amps or above is 2 minutes of welding out of ten minutes. This varies a bit depending on the process but 100 amps and less continuous welding is allowed. If your using 110 volts to power the machine the duty cycle is 70 amps or lower for continuous welding. I don't think this is a machine that a professional would want to use all day long in a shop for large fabrication projects. For my sign shop I got a portable three process machine that fits the work I do on a daily basis. If I'm building a tractor implement and I expect to be stick welding most of the day I use my Bobcat.
.

Jon McElwain
11-11-2013, 3:42 PM
Probably get stomped on for this, but check the duty cycle ratings of the units you are considering. I have a firepower unit made by Themadyne and was surprised to find out the duty cycle on my unit was much much higher than the comparable Lincoln or Miller welders.

Odd thing is, you don't hear much about them and they can be had very inexpensively compared to the big two...

Might be worth a check.

JT


I don't know much about the Themadyne products, but my decision on the Miller/Lincoln is less to do with value and more to do with product support as my welding shop carries parts and service for these machines.

Duty cycle certainly is important. The Miller 211 that I am looking at has a thermal overload protection feature that shuts the machine down if it exceeds the duty cycle or overheats for another reason. It is probably really irritating to have the machine shut off automatically, but still better than burning up or something. I won't be relying on this machine for production work, so the irritation to me should be minor.

Jon McElwain
11-15-2013, 4:42 PM
Okay, now I'm in a real bind. I found a nearly new Miller Maxstar 200 SD for $900 on craigslist. It comes with a foot petal, TIG torch, and stick weld clamps. This machine is listed at $2900 plus another $500 for the connections and foot petal. Any reason this machine would not be a much better choice at a lower price?

David Brimm
11-15-2013, 4:58 PM
I have a Maxstar (DX model though) and it's a great little TIG machine, I use it almost daily for thin stainless steel fab work. I haven't used it for stick work really other than a trial after I first bought it but it seemed to work very well in that regard as well, keeping in mind it's power (current) limitations. The only negative I can think of it's a DC only machine which means you're not going to be doing aluminum work with it, or at least you shouldn't unless you want poor results.

tony liberati
12-10-2013, 1:02 PM
About 10 years ago I got interested in doing some of my own fabricating at home. My first buy was a Hobart 140. Great but very limited. Second was a Miller AC-DC stick.Good Machine But I am not a welder. Third purchsae was a set of Torches.Well since then I sold The Hobart for almost what I paid for it. Hobart holds there value.Sold the Stick welder. Kept the Torches. Now I have a Miller 211 and a Hypertherm Powermax 30 Plasma cutter and never looked back. I use the Plasmer Cutter and the 211 a lot. The torches only get used if I have to Heat or bend. Now I am a carpenter by trade and never to old to learn. But I do not want to learn the wrong way so stay with Miller or Hobart get the largest you can afford. You could always turn it down And if you want to cut some Metal A plasma cutter is nice. Especially Hypertherm. If you decide to sell any of them you will get most of your money back.

Mac McQuinn
02-05-2014, 12:15 AM
Keith,
Are you still happy with the Multimatic 200? Any advice on using one or on any of the processes?
Is there a trade off on this machine verses a dedicated machine for each welding process? Any issues on the machine?
Thanks.
Mac


Julian,

That's good advice, complying with the manufacturers recommended duty cycle is a must but it isn't always easy to do. My old Miller buzz box had a copper transformer and we never considered the duty cycle. These days the machines, particularly the light duty machines, can be damaged much easier so if a short duty cycle is a problem it should be part of the purchasing decision.

Stick welding on the Miller Multimatic 200 the duty cycle at 150 amps or above is 2 minutes of welding out of ten minutes. This varies a bit depending on the process but 100 amps and less continuous welding is allowed. If your using 110 volts to power the machine the duty cycle is 70 amps or lower for continuous welding. I don't think this is a machine that a professional would want to use all day long in a shop for large fabrication projects. For my sign shop I got a portable three process machine that fits the work I do on a daily basis. If I'm building a tractor implement and I expect to be stick welding most of the day I use my Bobcat.
.

Keith Outten
02-05-2014, 7:44 AM
Mac,

Yes, I'm still happy with my Multimatic 200. There is a tradeoff when you select a multi-process machine over individual dedicated welders. There can be a gain as well depending on your needs.

I have watched videos of people who run welding service companies who really like the Multimatic 200 for small remote welding jobs. A weld repair on a piece of farm equipment where you need to get a small repair done quick in the field and other situations like this. I don't specifically need the portability but my sign hanger types of jobs are always very small projects. I doubt that you would want to use this machine to make a major repair on large construction machines though, there are definitely better machines for that purpose.

A machine that provides MIG, TIG and Stick welding in one small box is pretty slick. Its also my first time using an inverter style machine and I am impressed how smooth it welds over the very old buzz box I used in the past. This makes the Multimatic a good choice for home owner and light commercial work when an operator is new to welding. The down side is that it will never be as good a MIG/TIG or Stick machine as a commercial unit designed to weld with as a single process machine all day long.

I don't really offer sign repair services but its nice to know that I have the capability to weld remotely if I ever have to go in the field to help a customer. I have a Bobcat but stick welding sign hangers is about 70% of the kind of work I expect in the field, the rest would be MIG welding. In my workshop I do about 50/50 MIG and Stick welding and most of the MIG process is plug welding steel scrolls for sign hangers.

So the Multimatic saved me money purchasing one machine rather than two and gave me portability if I need it. The ability to TIG weld is nice but its something I would do for fun more that work although it is possible that I could start offering channel letters to my customers now that I can weld thin sheet. When I feel the need to make more attachments for my tractor I would use my Bobcat.

Hope this helps!
.

Mac McQuinn
02-05-2014, 10:07 AM
Thanks for the information.
Mac

Michael Stockdale
07-10-2014, 6:36 AM
Any suggestions for a small spot welder with someting like a 15-18" reach? I am still toying with the idea of building my own Pentz-design dust collection cyclone, and a spot welder sounds like it would be very, very helpful...

Michael

Lugoff, SC

Mac McQuinn
07-10-2014, 5:40 PM
Michael,
If by chance you already have a Mig Welder on hand, have you thought about a Eastwood Spot Weld adapter #13901 for it? Appears to be a pretty neat outfit. I used one of their spot welders year's ago on a 1951 GMC restoration and it worked surprisingly well.
Mac



Any suggestions for a small spot welder with someting like a 15-18" reach? I am still toying with the idea of building my own Pentz-design dust collection cyclone, and a spot welder sounds like it would be very, very helpful...

Michael

Lugoff, SC