Under cabinet lighting

[Randy Henry]

I'm wrapping up my kitchen re-do, and getting ready to install the uppers. My wife is wanting accent lights under the uppers. Without wanting to do a bunch of drywall work, what methods are being used to conceal the wires between cabinets when the lights are daisy chained together? I will not consider putting the wires inside the cabinets where the wire lays on top of the bottom shelf. Was thinking about the puck style lights (120v-not the low voltage as I don't trust the power supply transformers). Thanks.

[Bill White]

Halogen (pucks) get very hot, LEDs are very expensive, fluorescents need to be hard wired.
Kinda like pick your poison.......
I have the fluorescents 'cause we planned for them, and they are my pick of the litter.
There are some low voltage ribbon lights available, but I know nothing about 'em. Betcha that they use transformers.
Bill

[Mark Bolton]

You can order a lot of strip led tapes now that are very inexpensive. Up until now we had been using tresco or equivalent and a kitchen that could be lit with a single roll (about 16') would cost 300-400 by the time you were all said and done.

This time we tried one of the cheaper LED direct companies you can easily find on the web. We lit the entire kitchen and an office unit with a single roll and if I recall the total was less than 100 bucks. You have to watch the ratings and do a little research but we were happy and will use it again.

I personally wouldn't use incandescent even though I like the color tone much better. Halogen is too hot and too white for my tastes. I also don't care for the work and effort of line voltage under cab lighting. It's never worked out for is and requires a lot of pre planning.

We use the led tapes and drill the recesses under the cabs and fish between boxes whenever possible. In some rare sticky spots where large multiple cabinet boxes are made as a single piece we will staple the wire to the back if the face frames (we do almost all ff cabs) and they are completely hidden.

I don't care for the color of led either but as bill said you have to pick your poisin

[Mike Goetzke]

I made kitchen cabinets and used LED tape lights. My wife loves them. All you need to do is run speaker wire since they are 12VDC. To run the wires I just drilled holes where needed in the bottom of the cabinet and ran the wire close to the face frame and you can not see them. In my case I ran the wires to the top of the cabinet and ran them along the top into a central location in the cabinet above the frig. (I planned this ahead of time during rough construction - I also embedded a piece of conduit right at the top of the cabinets that bridged the sink window to conceal the wiring). I had wired four different wall switches into this area. I even applied LED lights above the cabinets to reflect off the ceiling.

Mike

[Julie Moriarty]

I wanted to install dimmable LEDs under the cabinets and control them with a dimmer at the wall. HA! You'd think I was trying to find the top quark! I have researched this thing over and over and finally settled on pucks. Yes, they get hot. But not so much that I've seen any sign of damage to the bottom of the cabinet. I ran all the wiring under the cabinet and drilled between cabinets or into the wall as necessary to feed the lights or the dimmer. They look great and the dimming feature really makes a difference. (I'm an electrician. I know the wire in the wall isn't code. Just don't report me to the inspector. ;))

If you don't care about dimming and you want the plus-features of LEDs, you have to figure out where you will hide the driver. You'll need to run 120v from the switch to the driver (top of cabinet and inside cabinet are common choices). That's the tricky part when it comes to hiding things. After that, you can run the wires anywhere you want w/o code issues. They are easy to hide and if you have a wire stapler you can easily tuck them into the corners of the under-the-cabinet recess.

With fluorescents you will usually find the under-the-cabinet recess isn't of sufficient depth to hide the fixtures. Connecting them by running standard lamp wire between them isn't kosher. I know, I did that with the pucks but they don't require a ground and don't have a ballast. My conscience has to draw the line somewhere. :rolleyes: I've installed a number of fluorescents for under cabinet lighting but that was before pucks and LEDs. Typically, I'd run 3/8" Greenfield between fixtures and into the wall to the switch. I managed to hide most of it but some still protruded below the bottom of the cabinet. The customers seemed happy with it though.

Someday, maybe the manufacturers of LEDs, drivers and dimmers will all get together so their products work with one another. Lutron makes a dimmer and compatible driver. The LED mfg. makes the lights and compatible driver. No one seems to make all three and I have yet to find any that will guarantee two of their components will work with one of the other's, but I do know they are continuing to do testing and publishing the results.

[scott vroom]

I'm wrapping up my kitchen re-do, and getting ready to install the uppers. My wife is wanting accent lights under the uppers. Without wanting to do a bunch of drywall work, what methods are being used to conceal the wires between cabinets when the lights are daisy chained together? I will not consider putting the wires inside the cabinets where the wire lays on top of the bottom shelf. Was thinking about the puck style lights (120v-not the low voltage as I don't trust the power supply transformers). Thanks.

Not sure what you're describing. Where is your 110V power source located? Is it switched? When you say "conceal the wires between cabinets" are you suggesting that wires must traverse open areas between cabinets? Not enough info to know what you are dealing with. Pictures would help.

If it were my job I'd open the drywall and replace an existing single duplex box with a double gang, add a switch, then daisy chain a switched wire behind the walls, pig tailing each individual fixture. But that's just me...I don't like the idea of exposed wiring running beneath/between cabs. Drywall is easy to open and patch.

[Mike Goetzke]

LED lights are dimable but on the DC side of the circuit.

[Steve Keathley]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why don't you just open the drywall behind where the the cabinets will be and run the wire prior to hanging the cabinet? Then when you hang the cabinet any hole in the drywall along with the wiring are concealed.

[Chris Newswanger]

If you're willing to buy from sites like alibaba.com, LED's, dimmers (remote control or otherwise), and power supplies can be found quite inexpensively. I got a 10m roll for ~$14, but 3 LED's in the middle of the strip were a different color temperature. For the price, though, I was quite satisfied.

[Steve Baumgartner]

I recently put in dimmable under cabinet LED tapes on my daughter's kitchen. Got them from Lee Valley - not too expensive and work like a charm provided you are careful with the connections.

[Mark Bolton]

I realize the op said he didn't trust transformers (can't imagine why, they are everywhere) but when we install dimmable LEDs we simply install a down stream dimmer in an upper cabinet somewhere.

While people think they will set their lights at different levels frequently it's simply not the case in our experience. The vast majority find a light level they like and after that it's on/off. This is why we use lutron slide dimmers ( slide next to a toggle) for all AC dimming. We get more complaints from people having to constantly fish for the light level they want with rotating or toggle dimmers.

We've never had a complaint with an in cabinet LED dimmer. If the customer want a bit more light for an event or party they simply open the cab and turn up the light. I'd bet that happens once a year if ever on average.

I could however see an owner installed setup being toyed with endlessly just because of the novelty.

[Lee Schierer]

One thing you may not ave considered is that 120 lights are going to get hot and that heat will migrate up through the cabinet bottoms if teh lights are left on for extended periods of time. They make LED puck lights that give the same amount of light, but without the heat. Transformers are pretty reliable barring a close lightning strike or large surge on your line.

[Matt Meiser]

I wouldn't do anything but LED. I used the bar-type lights (from Lowes) in my kitchen but after having played with some tape, I'd use that if I was doing it again. Tons of sources on Ebay with good ratings.

[Sam Puhalovich]

I built loft beds for my grandkids ... lit-up the the desk area with led's from superbrightleds.
At that time ... I got 2x the lighting for 1/2 $ that Lowes was selling.
The wires and components are pretty small and easy to conceal.

[Kevin L. Pauba]

I'm (still) waiting on some of these: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/klauf/klauf-light-bar-bright-dimmable-phosphor-led.

[Randy Rizzo]

I've done this in several kitchens. No problems. Planed a 2X6 to fit the recess under the cabinet and secured with Kreg screws (need to watch the screw length). Bored a 2 1/8" hole for the puck light then rout a channel for the wiring (12VDC low voltage) Prior to installing the cabinet, pull wiring through a hole high enough to be hidden behind cabinet. Test fit cabinet. mark bottom location. Slit drywall down to just above bottom of cabinet and drill hole in cabinet, match your routed wire chase to hole location. Used 10W Xenon bulbs in each fixture. Still running original bulbs after 6 years. Tried Halogens originally, PITA! Can't touch bulbs with bare hands and short life. Heat has never been a problem.

[Curt Harms]

The LED tapes work pretty well if you don't need a finished appearance. I mounted the tape to think oak strips then screwed the oak strips to the cabinet bottom. If the LEDs start to burn out, it's easy to replace them. I wanted 'two speed' LEDs but couldn't figure out a way to incorporate the dimmer - the ones I found were too bulky for my taste. I did some research and got good advice from here. Two 50 ohm wirewound resistors from Radio Shack in parallel worked out great for me. This dims about 15' of LED tape and 2 LED puck lights. 3 position micro toggle switch mounted under the cabinet recess is invisible unless you lean over and look up. One position runs the 12 volt power through the resistors, one position doesn't.

[Julie Moriarty]

LED lights are dimable but on the DC side of the circuit.

The problem I was referring to comes when you try to take standard LED-rated wall switches and use them to dim any LED strips.

I built an Asian chandelier for my doctor and purchased the LED strips, driver and wall dimmer from the same vendor. The dimmer was $90 and kind of weird looking. He was okay with it but I wasn't.

When I went to install under cabinet lights in my kitchen, I wanted the same style dimmer as I had for the rest of the lights. The dimmers are electronic and rated for controlling either the line or load side of the driver. Lutron sold a driver that worked with that dimmer. But I couldn't find a single LED vendor that would warranty their LEDs with the Lutron components. Nor would any warranty their drivers with the Lutron dimmer. And Lutron doesn't make LED strips.

The point is you can't buy a LED rated dimmer and mix it with any driver or any LED strips. They all have to be matched if you want a warranty.

[scott vroom]

I prefer xenon...yes they get warm but not hot, and the light quality is superior to LED IMO. Xenon are dimmable and operate off a standard 120V dimmer switch. Still, if the OP won't open the drywall and do a proper wiring job then I guess LED would be an alternative.