Paring Chisels

[James Conrad]

I've got a couple of nice old paring chisels, the long, thin, flexible type you keep the mallet away from. I've wanted to pick up a few more, which I could do with some rust hunting I suppose. Blue Spruce makes a long paring chisel, anyone have/use them? Does anyone else make a good quality true paring chisel anymore?

[David Weaver]

Blue spruce and Japanese are about it. If you can find an old western parer before the days of lots of chromium - one with an octagonal forged bolster, you'll find that they are excellent chisels. The only trouble with them is most of the folks who have bought up the nice old beveled edge parers for resale think that something in the ballpark of $100 is a good price for them.

You could make a nice HSS chisel out of a power planer blade since the bolster is not critical on a chisel you'd push. Just grind a tang onto one end and put a bevel on the other.

[James Conrad]

I've noticed that trend on the auction sites, not to mention they often list similar chisels as paring chisels when clearly they are not. I don't mind spending the cash on the BS ones, although their site has some ordering quirks at the moment. Just curious what else was out there.

[Mike Holbrook]

Japanese makers make very nice dedicated paring chisels of several different types. The only issue is they are quite expensive. Stuart at Tools from Japan has chisels from several different makers, Tools For Working Wood has some nice Japanese paring chisels too. Usu-nomi/Paring chisels, Umeki-Shinogi/Detail chisels, Bachi-nomi (fistail) chisels are a new type of detail chisel Stuart carries. Be aware that Stuart can get more chisels than he lists in his store. Also be aware that the turn around time to get information and get chisels ordered and made can be lengthy ordering from Tools from Japan.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, actual parers are probably a tenth of what's listed. There are a TON of socket firmers that people try to sell as paring chisels. presumably, paring chisels are a challenge for makers now because they're flexible. don't know how they made and ground them in the old days, but it probably involved more setup with human interaction.

Henry taylor chisels are maybe the only other tools I've seen mentioned where people are offended by what they have.

[george wilson]

MJD auctions frequently sells long paring chisels if they don't mess up and forget your high bid,selling them for LESS to someone else!! REALLY!! Otherwise,an old planer blade makes a good,long chisel. The guys in the millwork shop used to make theirs from a planer blade. The longer they were,the greater the bragging rights!!

[Jim Matthews]

Isn't there a complete set of Blue Spruce paring chisels offered in our classified section?

[Cody Cantrell]

I made these from HSS planer blades the long one is around 15" 3/4" wide. The ferrules were made from 1/2" PEX fittings from the plumbing section.274058274059274060

[Hilton Ralphs]

Isn't there a complete set of Blue Spruce paring chisels offered in our classified section?


Sold
sold
sold

Funny how certain things are up for sale and at the same time someone is wanting the very same item.

[Tony Wilkins]

I have a couple of Blue Spruce long paring chisels. They are well made just like anything Dave makes. Being A2 I don't think they're as flexible as the old ones seem to be in videos I've seen (don't own one). Don't have a Japanese parer but Stu would be able to give you the heads up on what one of those would work for you; I'm sure someone could write a book on the variety of them.

[Derek Cohen]

Japanese paring chisels, or slicks, are quite different from their Western cousins. Their only similarity is that both chisels are long. The Western chisel has a long blade and a relatively short handle, while the Japanese version has a long handle and a relatively short blade. The Western parer has a thin blade. The Japanese parer blade is thin by Japanese standards by still about twice as thick as the Western.

I have a set of Kiyohisa, which came via So (in Australia). Three year waiting list. It was worth it.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/Kiyohisa/6.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/Kiyohisa/8.jpg

If you are looking for a thin, flexible Western style paring chisel, these are not for you. The blades are stiff, but they are surgical instruments, and hold the best edge forever.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Conrad]

Funny how certain things are up for sale and at the same time someone is wanting the very same item.

I eyed those, but at the price, I'd would buy new.

[James Conrad]

I made these from HSS planer blades the long one is around 15" 3/4" wide. The ferrules were made from 1/2" PEX fittings from the plumbing section.274058274059274060


Certainly an option as Dave / George suggested, nice work on yours.

[James Conrad]

If you are looking for a thin, flexible Western style paring chisel, these are not for you.
Derek

Thanks Derek, definitely Western, the ones I have are flexible and wonderful to use, just need a few larger. I was wondering if the BS A2 chisels would have that same ability. Might have to hit the local rust centers.

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks Derek, definitely Western, the ones I have are flexible and wonderful to use, just need a few larger. I was wondering if the BS A2 chisels would have that same ability. Might have to hit the local rust centers.

Just used my BS long parers - they are flexible (more so than I remember). Not sure as flexible as the old ones. Any way I can help you compare let me know.

[Chuck Nickerson]

The Best Things also has long thin flexible paring chisels and I bought the set.
They're made from some kind of O1/spring steel. It tool a while to get them flat (LV and LN have spoiled us)
but once they're prepped, they are great.

[Dave Cav]

I have asked L-N a couple of times to make a run of 720s. So far no luck.

[Ryan Mooney]

I made these from HSS planer blades the long one is around 15" 3/4" wide.

Nicely made Cody.

May I ask how you ground the lands? Just free hand or do you have some machine tooling?
Also any suggestions on the relative geometries?

I have a stack of old planer blades stashed away that are looking somewhat like they may achieve a new life...

[David Wong]

Forgive my ignorance, but why is it desirable for western paring chisels to be flexible? Does the blade actually bend under weight? Is it the feedback you get from light flexible chisels that is useful? Thanks.

[Cody Cantrell]

I set up a fence on the bench grinders tool rest and slid them back and for on a coarse grit stone on a slow speed. HSS is not my favorite material to work with because you cant anneal it so everything has to be ground not filed. But the positive is it is not as detrimental if you overheat it.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Forgive my ignorance, but why is it desirable for western paring chisels to be flexible? Does the blade actually bend under weight? Is it the feedback you get from light flexible chisels that is useful? Thanks.

Based on my experience only (haven't seen any reason in writing) a flexible chisel can be used as a dog-leg chisel.
That is, the face of the chisel on the wood surface with clearance for the handle.

[Jonathan McCullough]

When you're paring just a fraction of an inch with a long, flexible paring chisel, all you have to do is align the flat of the chisel in the plane you're paring, and flex the chisel, which springs the cutting edge of the chisel forward just the teeniest little bit. The length also aids in finding an exact angle. Imagine the precision of a protractor with a radius of, say, six inches (a butt chisel), versus a protractor with a radius of eighteen inches like a paring chisel. Much easier to attain a more precise angle.

[Mike Holbrook]

I believe many of the Japanese paring chisels have a slight curve in the metal portion of the chisel which may achieve a similar result without having to flex the blade. Granted the Japanese thin paring chisels are typically heavier than the vintage western chisel, but there must be a point at which diminished blade strength becomes an issue flexing a long thin blade.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Long, thin paring chisels have low bevel angles (20º or so), they have a bolstered shank--never a socket, and are only ever used with hand pressure--never a mallet-- for very very fine operations, so diminished blade strength is never an issue unless you're using a paring chisel improperly. Think of something a little less springy than a hand saw. The ability to flex the blade is a feature, not some sort of impediment you have to overcome to make the paring chisel work.

Frankly, there really isn't anything being currently manufactured that resembles true paring chisels. There are a lot of long chisels that manufacturers and retailers call "paring chisels" but it's just not the same. As far as I can tell there is no such thing as a Japanese paring chisel and there never was. Nothing against Japanese chisels per se, or today's long chisel manufacturers, but it's just not the same thing. Putting a long wooden handle on a bench chisel and calling it a paring chisel is, and this is solely my opinion, ludicrous.

One of the fastest ways to irritate people on forums is to make them feel like the expensive equipment they bought is somehow deficient, or to make them feel that they were foolish marks. That strikes at very deep seated insecurities and makes people feel foolish. The biggest blow ups appear to be when people have their notions turned upside down, and discover that they may have wasted money or opined foolishly in haste. So don't anyone get hot under the collar. Having said that, in my book, any paring chisel that isn't really long or springy, or made of a steel that allows you to grind it to 20º isn't a real paring chisel. You can do some really nice work with them, and you can do some paring operations with them. But they're not true paring chisels. I bought the long Buck Brothers "paring" and crank-neck chisels, and you know what? They're really nice. But they're too thick to be what I consider true paring chisels, and I've resolved myself to the idea that if I'm ever going to get the chance to use some nice paring chisels like I did in Britain when I was a kid, I'll have to chop up some flat bar stock, heat treat it, and make them myself. Maybe George Wilson could attest to this, but unless or until you've really used one, it may be difficult to really appreciate what makes them special and/or desirable. Definitely not an everyday use item.

[David Weaver]

I don't know that I'd consider the japanese chisels bench chisels with a different handle (LN surely employs that by literally selling the handles to put in the bench chisels, but those guys recommend people buy a bunch of frogs for a perfectly good plane, too). The necks and the chisels themselves for the japanese chisels would not tolerate malleting, they are purpose built, though they don't spring. They do work better for paring applications, and seem to cut as well at 25 degrees as an old forged bolster parer would at 20 (perhaps because there's not much metal in the cut on the back) in terms of relative ease in the cut (That would be based on a comparison of a butcher parer and a new moderately priced japanese chisel)

Sometimes I consider selling of my japanese parers to get the money back from them because there's nothing I couldn't do with the vintage parers, but they are ...well, nicer to use, and they hold their edges better and can tolerate a wider range of cuts.

As for the heavy profile Cr-V or Cr-Mn parers that are out there now (including those buck brother chisels - I did buy 3 of the offset parers because they're so cheap), they are definitely not like the vintage chisels that are light, springy, and never exceed 1/8th of an inch in thickness.

The only caveat I'd make with the japanese parers is to buy them from a maker who does make them thin enough so that they don't feel like blocky bench chisels. The reputable makers all make them thin and light, but some of the corporate tool company chisels are made heavy and blocky. I haven't seen a modern western parer that would rank with a butcher paring chisel.

[Kees Heiden]

Jonathan, what kind of work are you thinking of for typical pairing chisel applications? I have two very nice old Sorby's, using them for all kinds of stuff, but would like to learn more about them.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Kees, it's just for very delicate operations. As an example, take a panel saw and lay the last third flat on your bench, with your hand on it to keep it flat, and flex the handle upward. Then, relax the amount of flex just a tad. The toe of the saw will advance along the bench, say, 1/128". It's used in operations, say splitting end grain, which is inherently unpredictable, and where an errant mallet-tap or hand pressure may blow out a delicate structure. One example I can think of *against* end grain is when making the pins on a half-blind dovetail in very thin wood; you don't want to blow through the surface of the box. I could see it being used by pattern makers, wood cut art (lots of delicate end grain bits dangling around there), carvers, maybe instrument makers. You don't need it until you need it, then it's the only thing that will do. Wish I could think of more real-world examples. That angled bit at the tops of backsaws maybe.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I was just using my quarter inch today - the nice thing besides the flex-to-cut motion, and ability to prevent blow-out that Jonathan describe, is how much it adds to control. It's excellent in endgrain, of course, but works great in face grain as well.

It's hard to explain how, but working with the flex and gentle push goes a long way towards helping you keep it cutting where you want. I was making a bunch of narrow dadoes, and chiseling out a bit of waste at each cut line to help guide the initial sawcuts with a back saw to define the dado before cleaning out the waste with chisels and router plane.

Working with a bench chisel to meant a lot of stoppy and sometimes rought cuts; the tool wants to cut in too far, or lifts out of the cut, and once it starts going in a direction you don't want, it's hard to change that, particularly if you're cutting with the bevel facing up. The paring chisel let's you make adjustments to the "steering" as it were by working with the flex. Starting the cut slightly flexed lets you flex more or less to change the attack. Of course, the extra length helps a lot in this application to. I was able to get one long, curly cut out of almost the whole length of the 10 inch board.

It's hard to explain in words, but it makes sense in your hands. Another apt comparison like Jonathan's panel saw one, is sort of the difference between scraping something away with a rigid, thick scraper, and a thin flexible one, like the difference between using a screwdriver and a pallet knife to scrape something off a surface.

[Mike Holbrook]

I can see how flexing a chisel blade with a given amount of pressure might hold the chisel on the surface and steer a steadier course. What I don't see is how this method has an advantage over a chisel built with a curved or cranked neck, used with the same pressure. Flexing the blade a given amount and holding it that way just seems to add another variable that must be learned and adapted to. The cut the blade makes must be a function of the angle the edge is presented to the wood at and the forward and downward pressure applied to the tool, having to maintain a given flex in the blade too just seems to add more for the brain and hands to coordinate. I can see that it might work well, I just do not see how it could be an easier hand tool skill to learn and maintain. I am also wondering how a manufacturer can design a blade such that an exact amount of flex will maintain the appropriate amount of pressure to cause the tool to function with maximum efficiency, without the flexing of the blade weakening the steel.

[David Wong]

Jonathan and Joshua, Thank you for the explanations and examples. I especially liked the screwdriver and pallet knife analogy. My take away is that the flexibility of the paring chisel attenuates the applied force, resulting in finer control. You could accomplish the same control with a regular chisel, but would need high motor skills.

Is there any commercially available flexible paring chisel I could buy to try out? Maybe you could recommend a vintage one I might look out for on the bay. Thanks again...

[David Weaver]

Long and flat with a forged bolster, David. Same thickness at the tang before the bolster as they are all the way to the edge. (The firmer chisels all taper thick at the tang/socket to thin at the edge). Has to be old enough to be sure to be plainer steel, too, which, unfortunately means a good chance of getting a pitted back.

Look for any of the old english brand, buck brothers, etc. Search "paring" or "patternmaker" chisel on ebay. Of all of the chisels that I saw earlier today that were listed as paring chisels, there were only two that weren't firmers or gouges, and they were both for sale in the UK.

[Kees Heiden]

Thanks for the explanations of using the flex. It's new to me and sometiing interesting to experiment.

[Jack Curtis]

I'm real fond of Tasai's ultra thin paring chisels, the 36mm is about 3mm thick at the thickest, but the top is scooped out a bit.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Is there any commercially available flexible paring chisel I could buy to try out? Maybe you could recommend a vintage one I might look out for on the bay. Thanks again...

Seriously consider trying the Sorby paring chisels at 'The Best Things'. Although not bolstered but tanged, they are long, thin and flexible.
Mine hold a 20* primary/21* secondary bevel.

[Hilton Ralphs]

and almost right on cue, Lee Valley introduce some Narex paring chisels. I'm not convinced these are true to tradition but interesting nonetheless.

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[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Coming to thinking, a lot of the reason for the flex in paring chisels is that from what I've read, it seems these were often the tools of patternmakers - and I could see them being quite useful in that trade, but unlike standard casework, you could quite often not have a flat area to register off of, like you would with in cabinet work where you're often apt to use something like this to clean a plug flush or trim the bottom of a dado or work up to the edge of a cutout for legs or something. So the odd sort of control some flex gives you is apt to be more useful than something that's sturdy and can register off a flat surface easily. Of course, it's also probably easier to put a little english on it to control the cut than try and keep the whole back of a long, non-flexible chisel flat enough to register easily. (Hence the Japanese approach of a long, canted handle and a short blade) And being able to register the back of your chisel off something perfectly flat doesn't help as much if you're trimming something in the middle of a wide panel that isn't flat to the same degree.

I just saw those Narex chisels as well. Interesting, and I love having the couple of parers that I have, but it's not the sort of thing I can imagine myself needing a whole set of five sizes.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Coming to thinking, a lot of the reason for the flex in paring chisels is that from what I've read, it seems these were often the tools of patternmakers - and I could see them being quite useful in that trade, but unlike standard casework, you could quite often not have a flat area to register off of, like you would with in cabinet work where you're often apt to use something like this to clean a plug flush or trim the bottom of a dado or work up to the edge of a cutout for legs or something. So the odd sort of control some flex gives you is apt to be more useful than something that's sturdy and can register off a flat surface easily. Of course, it's also probably easier to put a little english on it to control the cut than try and keep the whole back of a long, non-flexible chisel flat enough to register easily. (Hence the Japanese approach of a long, canted handle and a short blade) And being able to register the back of your chisel off something perfectly flat doesn't help as much if you're trimming something in the middle of a wide panel that isn't flat to the same degree.

I just saw those Narex chisels as well. Interesting, and I love having the couple of parers that I have, but it's not the sort of thing I can imagine myself needing a whole set of five sizes.

I've trimmed shoulders in the method they show on the product page, and with good control it works well, but I've almost always found it easier to trim in from the face (perpendicular to what they show) with a broad chisel, registered in a knife line, or off a block if it's too tight to start another knife line.

[David Weaver]

They look fairly heavy (which LV says right out), but for $22 per shipped, who cares...the only way to get a decent paring chisel any cheaper would be to make one out of used stock.

If I didn't already have gobs of chisels, I'd probably give them a rip. I'd bet you (or I) could unload the ones you didn't want on ebay for $30 each and not be out anything.

Sooo...who is going to do their civic duty and buy the set and report back here?

[Mel Fulks]

I think you're right about the pattern makers use. For one thing , sometimes the metal doesn't shrink as much as it's supposed to and customer doesn't want to have to machine off so much extra metal,so they send it back with instruction to remove a specified amount of a marked area. With out a lot of room to work those chisels work well.

[george wilson]

I just got an email from LV. The new paring chisels are $109.00 for a set of 4. They are substantially thicker than traditional,and made of silicon chrome steel @60 R.C.. Narex may not make these again. Apparently trouble to make.
after Dec. 15, the price will be $149.00.

[Chris Friesen]

I just got an email from LV. The new paring chisels are $109.00 for a set of 4. They are substantially thicker than traditional,and made of silicon chrome steel @60 R.C.. Narex may not make these again. Apparently trouble to make.
after Dec. 15, the price will be $149.00.

So the question is...with blades roughly 1/4" thick, are they still going to be useful as parers or is it better to hold out for thin springy ones that cost 2-3 times as much?

[Matt Radtke]

Sooo...who is going to do their civic duty and buy the set and report back here?

I might be able to , but I won't be able to review them until next month. What ever I buy for myself from LV in November ends up under the tree "From Santa."

[James Conrad]

So the question is...with blades roughly 1/4" thick, are they still going to be useful as parers or is it better to hold out for thin springy ones that cost 2-3 times as much?

Depends on how you intend to use them, if you want a thin flexible paring chisel for the type of work/technique they are needed for, then wait. Personally, they won't fit for what I need, so I won't be trying them... Tempting though at the price and free shipping.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Patrick Leach had a couple of paring chisels for sale last week;

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[David Weaver]

I might be able to , but I won't be able to review them until next month. What ever I buy for myself from LV in November ends up under the tree "From Santa."

That's be no problem. In terms of the review, something simple like "they're good" or "they work like they're supposed to". AT $22, if they're functional, you get your money's worth. If they're better than that, then you get something for almost nothing.

I am *almost* curious enough to buy them, but I will be read the riot act at the front door the day they'd show up (and for good reason) if I do.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I wonder how different they are to the ones sold in the UK?

From Workshop Heaven

Narex 8132 paring chisels are forged from CrMn high carbon steel and isothermally hardened to RC59

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From Lee Valley

Forged from silicon-chrome steel (Rc58-60)

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[Mike Tekin]

Hilton- I was just wondering the same thing! - paging Mr. Rob Lee.....

Anybody else know the qualities/properties of these two steels?


I wonder how different they are to the ones sold in the UK?

From Workshop Heaven


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From Lee Valley


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[george wilson]

I'd certainly buy them rather than the chronically too soft Sorbys. Though,I'd like them better if they had bolsters,just as a matter of style.

As for the steel used,I'm sure they will do just fine. I can't see LV letting a bad line of tools out. Narex chisels have always been a good bargain. Narex doesn't just make inexpensive chisels. They make high class machinists' tools too. I have a milling machine boring head that retails for about $2500.00. And,it's their less expensive model!!

[David Weaver]

Hilton- I was just wondering the same thing! - paging Mr. Rob Lee.....

Anybody else know the qualities/properties of these two steels?

I'd be willing to bet that if they are different at all, it's not by much. It may be more a difference in terminology. I'm sort of curious what silicon does in steel, it may be that it makes it more suitable for induction hardening.

Call me crazy, but the chisels look to me like they're the same thing from both places, they're just cheaper at LV by a mile.

[george wilson]

Silicon is a strengthener in steels.

[Matt Radtke]

I am *almost* curious enough to buy them, but I will be read the riot act at the front door the day they'd show up (and for good reason) if I do.

What? You don't have your goodies shipped to work like the rest of us?

[Ryan Mooney]

What? You don't have your goodies shipped to work like the rest of us?

When the boss works at the same location you do that don't work... There are upsides and downsides to every situation.

[Tony Wilkins]

Coming to thinking, a lot of the reason for the flex in paring chisels is that from what I've read, it seems these were often the tools of patternmakers - and I could see them being quite useful in that trade, but unlike standard casework, you could quite often not have a flat area to register off of, like you would with in cabinet work where you're often apt to use something like this to clean a plug flush or trim the bottom of a dado or work up to the edge of a cutout for legs or something. So the odd sort of control some flex gives you is apt to be more useful than something that's sturdy and can register off a flat surface easily. Of course, it's also probably easier to put a little english on it to control the cut than try and keep the whole back of a long, non-flexible chisel flat enough to register easily. (Hence the Japanese approach of a long, canted handle and a short blade) And being able to register the back of your chisel off something perfectly flat doesn't help as much if you're trimming something in the middle of a wide panel that isn't flat to the same degree.

I just saw those Narex chisels as well. Interesting, and I love having the couple of parers that I have, but it's not the sort of thing I can imagine myself needing a whole set of five sizes.

What you say is interesting. Any videos or pictures of what you are describing in use?

[David Weaver]

What? You don't have your goodies shipped to work like the rest of us?

Nah, it's the volume in the house that bugs my wife. She comes from a long line of folks who don't have anything extra in the house that they don't use all the time. I come from a line of folks who have twice as much crap as I did, so we're somewhere in the middle - wherever the household tension line is drawn.

[John Sanford]

Okay, I'm left wondering:

Why doesn't ANYBODY make classic paring chisels any longer? It seems like this would be a fine opening for one of the boutique edged tool makers.

[Mel Fulks]

I learn something new here most every day. I've been working a long time but this flexing chisel thing is new to me.One place had two sets of chisels hanging on the wall ,but I usually preferred to use my own. One set was long paring chisele and the boss would admonish any use of the paring chisels involving a mallet. None of us understood that since they were just as thick as the other set. Now I get it ....they were supposed to be thin.

[Chris Friesen]

Okay, I'm left wondering:

Why doesn't ANYBODY make classic paring chisels any longer? It seems like this would be a fine opening for one of the boutique edged tool makers.

Blue Spruce makes thin and flexible ones, though at 7" the blade is not quite as long as the Narex.

Rob Lee mentioned that they were looking at doing paring chisels in PM-V11.....I wonder if they're going classic style or thicker like these Narex ones.

[James Conrad]

Okay, I'm left wondering:

Why doesn't ANYBODY make classic paring chisels any longer? It seems like this would be a fine opening for one of the boutique edged tool makers.

Exactly my point in starting the post was hoping there was a maker I missed in my search... While there are a few offerings out there, I'm not sure they fit the bill as my current vintage parers do. I suppose I could buy a chisel or 2 of each and give it a go, Blue Spruce or the Sorby... I just need to fill a few gaps in size for my work. I'm sure part of the reason there are few offerings is that they are not widely used anymore or the loss of the knowledge of technique and use does not help in bringing them to market.

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Hand%20Tools/P1020548.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Hand%20Tools/P1020548.jpg.html)

Not sure why that Boxwood 1/2" is in this photo but this is my collection of paring chisels.. Blue Spruce in the middle. The Japanese chisels do not Flex.. Blue Spruce flex quite a bit .. The Henry Taylor Cranked chisels are the weak sister in this family.. Useful on occasion but out classed by the other's in quality.

[John Sanford]

Not sure why that Boxwood 1/2" is in this photo but this is my collection of paring chisels.. Blue Spruce in the middle. The Japanese chisels do not Flex.. Blue Spruce flex quite a bit .. The Henry Taylor Cranked chisels are the weak sister in this family.. Useful on occasion but out classed by the other's in quality.
So the Blue Spruce do flex... that's good to know. Unfortunately, we're unlikely to find out before free shipping ends if the flex of the new Narex via LV is up to snuff.

[David Weaver]

When does free shipping end? I ordered the narex chisels today, I'll give an idea how they are, though I'm less demanding than most users, I just want something that cuts, especially in the case of long dados - and by the way, you guys are all chickens!! If they're decent, I'm not sure what I'll do with them. If they're not, I know what I'll do with them - ebay!! I already have about 9 ways to clean out dadoes on hand, and I cut about 2 dadoes a month.

Maybe rob will throw some former catalog cover fodder in the box for me :)

Well, one can dream.

[Rob Lee]

I wonder how different they are to the ones sold in the UK?

From Workshop Heaven


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From Lee Valley


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Hi -

We held them to different tolerances than their standard production.... and the cost was about 10% higher (to us)...

It is not likely that they will want to repeat....

Cheers -

Rob

[Hilton Ralphs]

We held them to different tolerances than their standard production.... and the cost was about 10% higher (to us)...

It is not likely that they will want to repeat....


and there goes the remaining stock of Narex paring chisels :)

[Chris Griggs]

First...



If I didn't already have gobs of chisels, I'd probably give them a rip. I'd bet you (or I) could unload the ones you didn't want on ebay for $30 each and not be out anything.

Sooo...who is going to do their civic duty and buy the set and report back here?

Then...




I am *almost* curious enough to buy them, but I will be read the riot act at the front door the day they'd show up (and for good reason) if I do.

...and finally...


I ordered the narex chisels today


Did anyone other than David not see this coming?...Anyone....Anyone....

Crickets. Yeah, that's what I thought.

I love it...it's like reading a Peanuts comic.:)

[Stew Hagerty]

I wonder how different they are to the ones sold in the UK?

From Workshop Heaven


274910

Lee Valley Set of 5: $109 + Free Shipping

Workshop Heaven set of 3:
274957
274959

[David Weaver]

WH probably has to charge VAT, and pretty much everything is more expensive over there, anyway. But I did have the same sentiment when I saw their price on ebay ($150 big ones, a little extra to cover fees, I'd imagine)...not so heavenly!!

Of course, that's fairer than the crook trying to sell $25 buck brothers crank chisels for $65-$70. (and on WH's part, selling in such an expensive place to have a business, nothing crooked at all on their part, just the way it is).

[Hilton Ralphs]

After passing Grade school, I worked out the difference in cost but I was more interested in the physical properties of the two sets on offer. Rob Lee answered my query.

[Max Withers]

Daddy has a chisel problem.

[David Weaver]

After passing Grade school, I worked out the difference in cost but I was more interested in the physical properties of the two sets on offer. Rob Lee answered my query.

Presume that the answer was followed with "not for open forum" or you would have shared it with us?

[Chris Griggs]

Dave,

I assumed Hilton meant this.


Hi -

We held them to different tolerances than their standard production.... and the cost was about 10% higher (to us)...

It is not likely that they will want to repeat....

Cheers -

Rob

...then again maybe not. I guess he was asking about the physical properties and this just says higher tolerances.

Hilton do you have additional info you can share?

[Hilton Ralphs]

Hilton do you have additional info you can share?

Nah, 10% higher is good for me.

[george wilson]

I just gave in and ordered the set of 5 Narex paring chisels. Today is the last day for free shipping,so I got the sale price and saved shipping. Not that I really needed them!!:) But,$109.00 is a trip to the grocery store these days.

I might could whack out some octagonal bolsters and jam them onto the tapered tangs. Well fitted,they wouldn't be noticable. Probably won't,though.

P.S.: Just noticed spell check decided "bolsters" should be "blisters". Spell Check obviously NOT composed by CRAFTSMEN!!

[Chris Griggs]

I just gave in and ordered the set of 5 Narex paring chisels. Today is the last day for free shipping,so I got the sale price and saved shipping. Not that I really needed them!!:) But,$109.00 is a trip to the grocery store these days.

I think a lot of us gave in today despite a lack of need for them. I had no intention of buying them, neither did Dave...it just kinda happened. Tough to pass up at the price with free shipping.

[Zach Dillinger]

I think a lot of us gave in today despite a lack of need for them. I had no intention of buying them, neither did Dave...it just kinda happened. Tough to pass up at the price with free shipping.

I'm holding strong... for the moment.

[Chris Griggs]

I'm holding strong... for the moment.

Don't hold strong for too long Zach....then you'll have to pay more when you finally give in.

You have a shortage of paring chisels anyway right ;)

[Hilton Ralphs]

Jeez you guys are bad, do you know how many times I've added and then removed these chisels from my cart?

[george wilson]

Don't worry,Zach: I eventually sell you mine for only $139.00 PLUS shipping.:) Nah,forget it.

At least they seem to be offered in GENUINE imperial widths!!!! I think I'll use them for real deep mortising.

[David Weaver]

Jeez you guys are bad, do you know how many times I've added and then removed these chisels from my cart?

Hilton Hilton, he's our man, if he doesn't buy them, somebody else can...yaaaaaaaayyyyy!

[Hilton Ralphs]

and it doesn't help that a nice 1-1/4" Buck Bros cranked paring chisel arrived today that I bought from Patrick Leach.

Oh well I've always said that I love a good pair.

[Jim Koepke]

Don't anyone feel bad.

Our grocery money went toward a nice spokeshave and a couple of glass cutters.

Do you think with all my chisels SWMBO could be easily convinced there was a set that I just have to get?

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

Don't anyone feel bad.

Our grocery money went toward a nice spokeshave and a couple of glass cutters.

Do you think with all my chisels SWMBO could be easily convinced there was a set that I just have to get?

jtk

The best approach here is a strict "don't tell, don't ask" policy. I don't tell my wife when I buy new tools and then she doesn't know to ask whether or not I need them. Of course this only works with tools that I can easily have shipped to the office and then fit in my back pack when I bike home from work.

[john davey]

Well. I just cracked as well. I really kinda feel bad for Rob as I did my usual LV free shipping impulse order yesterday before I saw this post. Sorry Rob, I could have saved ya a box if I saw this earlier. I think I will now own every darn Narex chisel they sell. And I know I don't need them all. I believe I have a problem :)...

[Zach Dillinger]

Don't worry,Zach: I eventually sell you mine for only $139.00 PLUS shipping.:) Nah,forget it.

At least they seem to be offered in GENUINE imperial widths!!!! I think I'll use them for real deep mortising.

Make sure to really pound on them with a 30 oz mallet to really get down into those deep mortises.

[Derek Cohen]

Make sure to really pound on them with a 30 oz mallet to really get down into those deep mortises.

First you will have to eat your Wheaties, Zack :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Zach Dillinger]

First you will have to eat your Wheaties, Zack :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

I've got my own personal Mjolnir just waiting, in case I decide to buy those chisels... :)

/I hope no one takes this seriously. You should never, ever, ever, ever hit a delicate paring chisel with any sort of mallet.

[Hilton Ralphs]

You should never, ever, ever, ever hit a delicate paring chisel with any sort of mallet.

Especially one that you didn't make yourself :)

[Prashun Patel]

Ok, I've read this whole thread, and perhaps the answer is buried in here, but when and why do people use these paring chisels? What can they do that 'bench' chisels cannot, and vise-versa?

They appear to be flatter and longer, so, they are perhaps made for paring the sides of deep things? Why is their increased length important?

[george wilson]

Nonsense,Zach,I use a steel 32 oz. ball pein hammer to chop out those 6" deep mortises!!:) And if the chisels break,BACK they go to LV.!! (This will really get Zach's "need to clarify" button pushed!!)

[David Weaver]

I can't believe you got sucked into the parers george. Maybe you should send me those nice marples parers that you have now, since they just sit around in your tool box.

They could just sit around on my shelf instead. :)

You guys might use your chisels to alternately make mortises in amish barns and jewelry boxes, but I like to use mine to remove frozen on wheels on my car and do things like chisel off rusted brake pads, and I expect that I can still get a good clean shave with a paring chisel in less than 2 minutes the next day without having to strop. And I expect the feel to be so good that they'll make me comfortable even if I'm wearing shop made steel wool underwear and have a major wedgie while doing all of these things.

These had better be that good!!

[Stew Hagerty]

I can't believe you got sucked into the parers george. Maybe you should send me those nice marples parers that you have now, since they just sit around in your tool box.

They could just sit around on my shelf instead. :)

You guys might use your chisels to alternately make mortises in amish barns and jewelry boxes, but I like to use mine to remove frozen on wheels on my car and do things like chisel off rusted brake pads, and I expect that I can still get a good clean shave with a paring chisel in less than 2 minutes the next day without having to strop. And I expect the feel to be so good that they'll make me comfortable even if I'm wearing shop made steel wool underwear and have a major wedgie while doing all of these things.

These had better be that good!!

I agree with everything you just said, except the steel wool underwear... They may not be the best idea, depending on exactly where you did the shaving. :eek:

[Mike Holbrook]

Good question Prashun. I know some claim longer chisels have some advantage for tight work due to increased ability to feel and adjust how the chisel registers against the work. Some people like the flex in thinner, particularly vintage, western chisels. I confess I do not understand the logic of this second feature. When you add in the fact that Western and Japanese chisels have some features that are very different: Japanese chisels usually do not flex, but they may have some curve built into them. The metal portion of Japanese chisels for paring are lighter than Japanese bench chisels but I believe they are still heavier than many western paring chisels. The length in Japanese chisels is more in the handle where the length in western chisels is typically more in the blade. The Japanese metal section of paring chisels, come in much the same shapes as bench chisels, which is very different than the shape of western chisels.

These are all things I have read but do not feel I understand the practical significance of in terms of the features being an actual benefit for work. I have also read several threads in which frequent posters on this forum have commented that they prefer bench chisels for some of the work other people may use paring chisels for, finishing up dovetails for instance. It seems to me Japanese chisels are available in a greater variety of types and sizes. I believe Stuart at Tools From Japan commented on one of my emails that the "bench chisel", as a chisel type, is more of a western pattern. I think the Japanese tend to use a greater variety of different chisel types designed for specific work. Some of the differences may relate to differences in the specific joinery used for western and eastern wood projects.

I am not claiming to actually understand enough to explain any of these differences. I just thought mentioning more specific features of these chisels might draw comments from those with more knowledge.

[george wilson]

The flex was just enough to make the chisels spring downwards enough to make them stay in a cut,rather than having to lift he handle to keep them in a cut.

Frankly,I think this perfect flex would be difficult to obtain that kind of perfect balance,especially when used on different kinds of woods. Pattern makers generally just used a few kinds of wood,like white pine,cherry,mahogany and a few others. I have a 3/16" pattern maker's long,cranked handle in cannel gouge that springs beautifully when cutting a nice groove in white pine. It might spring more and dive into mahogany or cherry.

Those old,expert pattern makers likely learned just how to sharpen their tools to get that perfect spring in different woods. Higher angle bevel for mahogany,lower for pine. If that was all they ever did,no doubt they knew just how to handle their sharpening.

There is an incredible amount of hand tool skill that has been lost. I knew an old guy in the 60's whose father carved spiral piano legs. He had to complete one in 20 minutes to make a decent living. His last name was Dragseth. Unusual name.

[James Conrad]

Ok, I've read this whole thread, and perhaps the answer is buried in here, but when and why do people use these paring chisels? What can they do that 'bench' chisels cannot, and vise-versa?

They appear to be flatter and longer, so, they are perhaps made for paring the sides of deep things? Why is their increased length important?

The thread went a little off kilter, I think because there are a scant few thin, long, flexible paring chisel choices out there and finding vintage ones is difficult as well. Then LV shows up to the party with a new paring chisel choice, which are not for the type of paring work I am looking for, and things went a little wonky, lol. I started the topic in hopes someone had a source I missed, I may order a couple from a what's available and see if they will suit my needs. The increased length along with thin, allows for the flex.

There use to be all manor of paring chisels available most of them intended to do work like mortising without being whacked with a mallet and honed closer to a 15 degree bevel. The thin, long and flexible paring chisel is intended for hand work, excel when working with the grain, cleaning up dovetails, forming stopped chamfers, cleaning up tenons, bring work down to a line... They were designed to do this work where feel is important in doing precise work.

[Mel Fulks]

A friend who was an expert full time sharpener of just about anything ,told me he had seen planer blades so soft that they were easily bent ! I've seen a lot of them of low quality ,but nothing like what he was talking about. I'm no metalergist ,but there must be some connection between hardness of edge and flex of entire blade. My belief is the chisels were primarily used by pattern makers who often have to make changes even beyond the shrink factor I noted the other day. Patterns are not easy to take apart and some of the engineering changes to new machines can be significant and difficult to access on a pattern needing alteration. Making the chisels thin made them reach better and saved steel when it was more expensive to a tradesman than it is now. The core box pattern making chisels are also thin ,but being curved in profile don't flex much. I am not saying that present uses of such chisels making use of the spring factor are not valid.

[george wilson]

I had to make 30 casting patterns for the replica 18th. C. fire engine we made in 1982. It took a whole year of my work,making the patterns,getting them cast,and taking them home at night to sit up till midnight every night to cut the threads and machine other parts. That was quite a bit of work.

My very last pattern making was a set of 18th. C. cast iron cooking kettles,Dutch oven with lid. Recently I bought myself a kettle just because I had made the pattern. They might could have given me one!!

On the Fire engine,my pattern maker's chisels and gouges came in handy.

Mel,of course there is less flex the harder the chisel is.