Why do so many people hate self checkouts?

[Brian Elfert]

I see it come up in threads here all the time. Posters keep stating they hate self checkouts and refuse to use them. I don't understand the hatred.

I LOVE self checkout. I avoid some grocery stores because they don't have self checkout and the checkouts are slow. Grocery stores locally have expanded self checkout in many stores to six lanes now. I was never in a grocery store before self checkout that had more than two express lanes open and usually only one express lane. I wish Target would expand self checkout to more stores since many of their stores have slow checkouts. I am single and tend to buy groceries multiple times a week so I qualify to use the express lanes.

Yes, there may be fewer low wage cashiers employed, but there are quite a few high pay skilled jobs created because of the need for software developers, engineers, and repair people. Some of the retail chains have reported that overall there is little or no savings from self checkout by the time they pay for the machines and pay for service calls to keep them running.

I suppose the same folks who won't use self checkout also dial zero for an operator on their phone to connect their call instead of just dialing the number. We have to keep those operators employed. Millions of jobs have been replaced by automation over the years and self checkout is just another example.

[phil harold]

Because 70 percent of the time I use them an item causes a problem and then i have to wait for assistance

If I am buying only one or two items it can be faster
but when buying the weeks worth of groceries it is an aggravating experience

[Matt Meiser]

I hate them because 1/2 the time they require employee intervention and said employee is either standing around talking and not paying attention or trying to figure out how to get another machine working.

[Frank Trinkle]

I do use them pretty regularly, but since they don't have to pay $12.00 an hour to a clerk, and another $8.75 to a bagger, it would make a lot more sense if there was a discount for using the self checkout lanes.

[Mark Bolton]

I agree with Matt and Phil as well as many other issues with them but my main one is ad I already posted in the other thread. You are willingly working for that company FOR FREE. It's masterful. Some wizard realized that they can cut costs and capitalize on everyone's hectic life.

My girlfriend is a self checkout junkie and I would challenge anyone to get through a self checkout at the grocery with a full cart as fast as the cashier can ring you out. The teller assistance, "please place the item in the bagging area", searching for sku's for produce, etc.. I've timed it and there is no comparison. A small basket or a few times sure. Busy day and all the cashier lanes are long lines, sure.

But my main thing is no discount and no price savings. What if you came to my shop, I quoted you for some cabinetry, and I expected you to pack boards, sweep the floor, or do some of the other responsibilities that were to be provided under my price and didn't give you a break on the cabinetry? Isn't that the old "sweat equity"? You do some of my work and I give you a little break?

[Rich Riddle]

My friend hates them because he considers it a ploy to reduce the working expenses of a business. Never mind the fact that it's low-wage and low-skill jobs. He sees them like robots on an assembly line with customers being the robots.

Some religious fanatics consider this a "sign of the mark" or a symptom of the sign of the mark.

[Brian Elfert]

Self checkouts aren't intended for full carts of groceries. The grocery stores I frequent still seem to have as many cashiers on duty except they usually no longer have an express lane. If one does a lot of bulk items or produce they can be a pain to use. One of the stores I frequent requires human intervention for every coupon which is a pain. Stores need to have signs explaining how the registers work. The biggest problem I see is customers not placing items on the bagging station or removing bags during the transaction. There are self checkouts that use cameras to verify items and those work much better, but most stores don't use that style.

I very rarely have any issues with the self checkouts because I understand how they work. I can be checked out and on my way in no time. It probably helps that I work with technology all day long and realize that computers are not flexible and want things done in a particular way.

Walmart quit rolling out any new self checkouts for a year or two and they may even have pulled some of them out of stores. I heard that Walmart was seeing higher costs than regular cashiers in part due to increased theft. Walmart is now going "all in" with self checkout. They building huge banks of self checkouts at stores with six to ten self checkouts in a large cluster at one end of the checkout lanes.

[Matt Meiser]

I understand how they work. Buy beer...wait. Buy something extremely light...wait. Buy something that's been flagged for cashier approval...wait. Buy something where the weight is off in their database...wait. Buy something that won't fit on the scale...wait.

[Brian Elfert]

AGAIN, SELF CHECKOUTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO REPLACE ALL CASHIERS. GROCERY STORES INSTALL THEM TO REPLACE EXPRESS LANES! GROCERY STORES ARE PUTTING IN SIGNS LIMITING THE NUMBER OF ITEMS CUSTOMER SHOULD USE SELF CHECKOUT FOR. CUSTOMERS WITH FULL CARTS SHOULD BE USING A HUMAN CASHIER AND STORES STILL HAVE THOSE.

I suppose those who don't like self checkouts replacing cashiers also still frequent the few full serve gas stations still around because they don't want the attendants out of work? Fine if you don't like self checkouts because they don't work for you. To intentionally not use them because you don't want a cashier out of work is silly. Even in today's unemployment it is hard for fast food places and retailers to find employees to fill entry level positions. I know folks who manage fast food and nobody wants to work for them. One fast food general manager I know quit recently because she was working all the time due to unable to find employees.

I can get out of a grocery store way faster now than in the old days. I don't have to wait in a 10 deep line at the express lane or wait behind three full shopping carts that take ten minutes to check out. Why should I spend extra time waiting in a checkout line just to keep a cashier employed? I would just as well keep the skilled workers employed that make the self checkouts and get a good liveable wage along with good benefits.

[Brian Elfert]

How groceries are sold in Minnesota is different than many states. State law only allows alcohol to be sold at liquor stores. Grocery stores in the Minneapolis area don't have bag boys to bag groceries. At the two big grocery chains customers have to bag their own groceries. Walmart and Target bag groceries, but the cashier does it. There is one upscale grocery chain that has bag boys, but the mainstream grocery stores do not have them.

People who come to the Minneapolis are for the first time are always shocked they have to bag their own groceries. I'm shocked when I go to a grocery store in another state and they do bag my groceries. Bag boys were eliminated from local grocery stores before I moved out on my own many years ago so I am not used to having them. One of the grocery chains lets youth groups bag groceries for voluntary donations at holiday times. The youth end up making $30+ an hour per youth. (The customers can get their groceries bagged regardless if they make a donation on the way out of the store.)

[David Weaver]

When they work as well as a teller, I'll use them. I often use the one at home depot, but about 1 out of 3 times, I end up standing around waiting for the attendant because the system screws something up and I can't fix it on my own. Anymore, when that happens, I pick up everything at the self checkout and carry it to a line with a cashier.

I wouldn't kid myself and think that paying the cashier is a very large part of the bill, even in a grocery store, it's probably a buck if they have benefits. To screw around with a self checkout on an item that doesn't come up the right price, or to mess around with a package that doesn't have a smooth area on the label and won't scan, or screw around when the machine is telling me I didn't put what I checked in the bag....no thanks.

[Mike Henderson]

I LOVE the self checkouts. Most of the grocery stores I go into have long lines on the cashier stations, and they're SLOOOOOW. Someone is using a hundred coupons or they wait until the clerk has finished ringing up all the groceries before they even start searching for their check book.

I can breeze up to the self checkout - there's almost always one open - and ring my stuff up and be out of there MUCH, MUCH faster. The self checkouts around here work very well and almost never need assistance.

I absolutely HATE waiting in those long cashier lines. I won't shop in a store that doesn't have self checkout.

Mike

[There's a grocery store around here by the name of Vons. They are too cheap to put in self checkout and tried to justify it by saying that they wanted to form a relationship between the customer and the cashier. I wrote them and told them that if I wanted a relationship, I'd try an on-line dating service. But when I wanted groceries, I want to get in, shop, and get out FAST. And self checkout allows me to checkout fast.]

[David Weaver]

When they rolled out self checkouts here, they did that intentionally with the cashiers (understaff them) to try to drive people to the self checkout lanes. If they have unmanned registers at a store and they play that game, I complain to them about it. I understand what they're doing, but being cheap at my expense when I'm already handing them a large margin is not acceptable.

I don't know how long ago they started that here, maybe like 2003 or 2004, but most of the stores that did that knocked it off. WE have one dominant chain here that has bargaining workers, so you never know who is playing what game, but at one of the other stores (which is across the road from my development), they don't have any self checkouts and they're always well staffed. I don't mind the self checkouts for a few small things when they work well, but I'd still rather have a cashier in a place that intentionally staffs them properly.

[ray hampton]

I try the self-checkout once but never again unless someone hold a gun on me, I am the person that pay for what I bought, so since it my money

[Matt Meiser]

Home Depot by us only uses self-checkout and it's invariably problematic. Easier to walk to the pro desk and check out there. Management tries to get everyone in that long line to move to self checkout. I think Kroger says 30 items or less but sometimes they only have one other (long) line open. They both are definitely trying to get people to switch.

I'll agree that the Minneapolis grocery situation is odd!

The self checkout situation will improve if we ever get to universal RFID tagging. A whole cart regardless of size could check out quickly with the exemption of some things like produce.

[Mark Bolton]

We have baggers here.. Even still a few grocery stores where the bagger pushes your cart to your car and loads the groceries to your car for you!!

I don't care so much about keeping a low wage employee in a job though it's not a bad perk.. What I do care about is the stores greatly reduced overhead (even if up front it's not as reduxes) which translates completely into increased profits and not savings to me for doing the work of what use to be done by their paid staff!!

I challenge you.. Open a store with only self checkout and everything in there is EXACTLY what you buy elsewhere but at a reduced cost due to minimal staff. Home Depot is already doing this yet they sell for the exact same prices as competitors. It's simply putting more and more onto the consumer while corporat profits soar. Walmart is your perfect example. They are the masters.

[Jim Koepke]

AGAIN, SELF CHECKOUTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO REPLACE ALL CASHIERS. GROCERY STORES INSTALL THEM TO REPLACE EXPRESS LANES! GROCERY STORES ARE PUTTING IN SIGNS LIMITING THE NUMBER OF ITEMS CUSTOMER SHOULD USE SELF CHECKOUT FOR. CUSTOMERS WITH FULL CARTS SHOULD BE USING A HUMAN CASHIER AND STORES STILL HAVE THOSE.

Wow, you really seem to be heavily involved in this.

In the local store we shop there is an express self check out and a regular self checkout. There are also four or five express lines. Some of the express lines allow about 12 items some about 15. If the express checkers are not busy and someone with a full cart is in a full check line the express checkers often ask them to come through the express line. Not sure about the whole chain, but this one store seems to care about customers.

So at least in the local store of our choice, they are not replacing the express lines.

If I am just buying one or two items and the express lines are full I might venture to self check.

If there are more than a few items and especially if there is more than one or two produce items I will not use self check. Some how or another I am faster than the computer. All too often an item is scanned and placed in the bagging area only to have the computer tell me there is an unchecked item in the bagging area. Then the computer catches up just in time to tell me to please put the checked item in the bagging area. That and a few jams requiring assistance makes it more pleasurable to interact with a human. At least the human smiles and says pleasant things instead of giving me some computer speak.

jtk

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Home Depot without self checkout?

I don't even want to think about it.

[Mike Cutler]

I would challenge anyone to get through a self checkout at the grocery with a full cart as fast as the cashier can ring you out.

I'd take this bet and probably split 70/30 with the cashier, and if it's a Stop & Shop I win 90%+ of the time.

I don't hate them, self checkouts, but I'm not immune to the psychology either. I use the cashier checkout most times, because if I'm not saving $$ doing their work, I'd rather see some kid get the $$$.
Home Depot just flat out annoys me. They have 2 registers open, at the opposite ends of the store ,and knowingly rely on customers checking out their own stuff as a profit increase strategy. I've left more than a few carts full of stuff in their aisles over the years because of their cheap/sloppy front end work.

[Bill Edwards(2)]

More and more companies will shutdown the self checkout, because they lose money.

Not just theft but accidental theft.

But they won't totally give up the idea for a long time.

The next thing will be to blend in image recognition.

:rolleyes:

[Gordon Eyre]

I am usually buying fruits and vegetables and they have to be looked up individually. I hate self checkout and every time I have used them some problem cropped up and I had to involve a real person.

[Rick Potter]

OK,

I admit it. I like to pass on the self checkout and use the cashier. My reason is to save their jobs. As some have said, they are maybe low pay jobs, but it is the only one they have. Unless there is a big line at my HD the cashier is quicker.

If you want to see what a cashier can do....take a look at the employee board at Costco. It is on display. The employees process an unbelievable amount of merchandise in under a minute. It is a real eye opener.

Rick Potter

[Jim Matthews]

Perhaps they're cleaner where the OP lives, but uppa heya in Coastal Massachusetts -
the self checkout lanes are filthy. I'm with the earlier posters -

if the management wants me to use one, it should be at a discount off my order.

I despise time sucks, and anything that's designed for speed that isn't fast - fails.

[paul cottingham]

Completely agree. If I am saving them money by checking myself out, I better get a discount. We can dance around that issue all we like, but that is what it boils down to.

[Larry Frank]

I love the self checkout to buy all my groceries. That way I can bag them in the order and make it easier to unload.

But most of all, my fruit, bread and other things are not slam dunked into a bag by someone who could care less. It is so frustrating to spend big money on fresh fruit to have it bruised throwing it in the bag or drop something on the bread.

The cashiers are only worried about how fast they can do it. RANT RANT RANT

[ray hampton]

I love the self checkout to buy all my groceries. That way I can bag them in the order and make it easier to unload.

But most of all, my fruit, bread and other things are not slam dunked into a bag by someone who could care less. It is so frustrating to spend big money on fresh fruit to have it bruised throwing it in the bag or drop something on the bread.

The cashiers are only worried about how fast they can do it. RANT RANT RANT


For the people which hate the self-serve lanes, we still got the gas station/ stop-go store , A REAL person will wait on you and take your money

[Anthony Diodati]

I always have trouble at walmart, Not very often at Krogers.

[Mike Henderson]

I would challenge anyone to get through a self checkout at the grocery with a full cart as fast as the cashier can ring you out.
I'd take that challenge and it wouldn't even be close.

Let's say we both start in the back of the store, each with a cart full of identical items. Simultaneously, we go forward to the checkout stands. I go to the self checkout and begin checking out my goods (there's never a line at the self checkout).

You find that there are three full carts in front of you. And when the cashier finishes checking out the first cart, that person begins going through a "purse" of coupons, trying to figure out which coupons apply to the things in that cart. The cashier works with the person and checks the coupons to see if they apply. Eventually, that person finishes checking out and the cashier starts on the second cart. During the checkout, that person realizes that they have the wrong item and the cashier sends a bag boy to find the right item. Everyone waits until the bag boy comes back.

About this time, I've finished leisurely checking out and wave to you as I push my cart of checked out groceries out of the store.

Now the cashier starts on the third cart and when finished, that person starts hunting through her purse looking for a check.

Finally, it's your turn to get checked out. Meanwhile, I'm home having a beer and unpacking the groceries.

Mike

[Mark Bolton]

I'd take that challenge and it wouldn't even be close.

Hah, Lordy lord. Well if we're able to rig the challenge to achieve whatever outcome we want I guess there's a career in politics ;-)

I guess I too could rig it to the contrary and site the times I've stood in the self check lane with any number of individuals in front of me cursing at the machines for all the reasons mentioned in this thread while I'm left standing and waiting.

To the contrary, and what I thought would be common sense, would be the comparison between two people, with full carts, commencing checkout at the same time. One in the self check, and one in a cashier isle. At least in my area, you would get anhialated. The cashiers know much of the produce codes by heart, and they sail items across the scanner rapid fire. I swipe my card while they are scanning so payment is nearly instant upon the last item being scanned, and while all this is happening the bagger has my stuff in the cart and is wishing me a good day. Now if one pays cash it's even worse feeding bills into a bill reader and waiting for change to be ejected, hopefully you don't have any folded corners or torn bills, or god forbid you write checks self checkout would be even farther I the ditch.

While I haven't of course done this with identical carts I have spent much time in both isles paying close attention because as I say, my girlfriend likes the self checkout. For a small run it's fine, and I have used it. But $120+ and at least around here there is no comparison.

There are no quantity restrictions or recommendations for the self check that I have seen though it would be common sense that with a major shopping session it would be foolish. The scales simpliy won't accommodate the volume.

I have no problem whatsoever with anyone's choice to use these. Have at it. But the title of the post is why do so many people hate them.

[Mike Henderson]

Hah, Lordy lord. Well if we're able to rig the challenge to achieve whatever outcome we want I guess there's a career in politics ;-)

I guess I too could rig it to the contrary and site the times I've stood in the self check lane with any number of individuals in front of me cursing at the machines for all the reasons mentioned in this thread while I'm left standing and waiting.

To the contrary, and what I thought would be common sense, would be the comparison between two people, with full carts, commencing checkout at the same time. One in the self check, and one in a cashier isle. At least in my area, you would get anhialated. The cashiers know much of the produce codes by heart, and they sail items across the scanner rapid fire. I swipe my card while they are scanning so payment is nearly instant upon the last item being scanned, and while all this is happening the bagger has my stuff in the cart and is wishing me a good day. Now if one pays cash it's even worse feeding bills into a bill reader and waiting for change to be ejected, hopefully you don't have any folded corners or torn bills, or god forbid you write checks self checkout would be even farther I the ditch.

While I haven't of course done this with identical carts I have spent much time in both isles paying close attention because as I say, my girlfriend likes the self checkout. For a small run it's fine, and I have used it. But $120+ and at least around here there is no comparison.

There are no quantity restrictions or recommendations for the self check that I have seen though it would be common sense that with a major shopping session it would be foolish. The scales simpliy won't accommodate the volume.

I have no problem whatsoever with anyone's choice to use these. Have at it. But the title of the post is why do so many people hate them.
The reason I use self checkout is that I was not "rigging" the situation. What I described is the usual situation in the grocery stores I go into.

Of course, a trained checker can check faster than an untrained customer. But it's VERY unusual to be able to go to the checkout lane with a cart full of groceries and get checked out without waiting. The situation of having three full carts in front of you is the usual situation.

And having no waiting at the self checkout stands is the usual situation.

So that cashier can check you out quickly, ONCE YOU GET TO THE HEAD OF THE LINE. But it may take quite a while to reach that point.

I get out of the store much faster than someone who lines up for a human cashier. And getting out quickly is what's important to me.

Mike

[Ken Fitzgerald]

None of our grocery stores, including the big chains have a self-checkout station of which I am aware.

One grocery store which is employee owned, the cashiers seldom have to refer to the produce cost list and they are seldom wrong about pricing. It's their business to know. They have a bagger at each station to bag your groceries and for every customer the bagger will offer to carry them to your car and load them into your vehicle.

The same employee owned grocery chain has 2, "10 items or less" cashier attended checkout stands for those with less than a full cart.

Our Home Depot has 2 rows of self-checkout stations with 2 self-checkout stations per row. One employee is stationed between these four self-checkout machines and is there immediately if you need help.

While their self-checkout stands could be there to minimize expenses and increase profits, they could also be there as a customer service to those customers who are capable of using them correctly. Often, the self-checkout stations can be faster than waiting in line to be served by a cashier. I use them regularly.

[Matt Meiser]

Our Home Depot has 2 rows of self-checkout stations with 2 self-checkout stations per row. One employee is stationed between these four self-checkout machines and is there immediately if you need help.

Oh, we've got a person there...they just don't apparently know what their purpose is. Except the one. Even worse if she "helps." The moved her over there because she couldn't handle the service desk. I had an online order with store pickup go bad. The person at HQ actually hung up on her.

[Bill Cunningham]

Within the next 10 years, everything you buy will have a RF chip in it, and you will just push your whole cart through a scanner, and pay the bill at the other side.. Cashiers and other checkout help will be minimal as the computers take over. Next step....Skynet.... I'll be back..(in my best Austrian accent!!):rolleyes:

[Stephen Cherry]

I like them because it goes along with my effort of trying to be a hermit, and I can get rid of all the change in my pockets without needing to worry about taking too much time.

[Rick Potter]

I like the cashiers because that is the only time a pretty girl smiles at me ;).

RP

[Rick Christopherson]

I'm a little surprised (yet somewhat unsurprised) about how many people are commenting on taking a full cart of groceries through a self-checkout lane. This may vary with some stores, but I have never seen a self-checkout lane that was set up for a full cart. Taking a full cart into one is extremely rude and inconsiderate of the people behind you. It is no different than trying to take 20 items through an express lane. It is not what they are intended for.

The key for self-checkout being successful is knowing how to use them. Where they fail is when you have inconsiderate people using them that should otherwise be using a normal checkout line.

If you have never used one before, don't make your 20-item purchase be the first time you need to learn how.
If you are buying a lot of produce that requires lookup in the computer, that is a good time to use a normal checkout line.
Scan an item and put it in the bag. Don't rearrange the items in the bag and don't pick them back up after they are there.
Don't have your children help you, and don't lean against the edge of the scale.
If you are buying a bunch of plumbing fixtures at Home Depot, make sure they all have bar codes.


The complaints about self-checkout don't come from the people that know how to use them, but from the people that either don't know how to use them or shouldn't be using them. They are not there to replace normal checkout lanes. They are there as an added convenience to reduce wait times.

[Mike Cutler]

Rick, and others.

I don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but here in Ct. those self checkouts at the grocery store are indeed intended for "full baskets". Some stores even have "express self checkout" lanes. Definitely the wholesale club type stores are meant for full baskets/carts. The Stop and Shop's here have a "Fob" that you carry with you as you shop and you scan as you go. The Fob goes in a dock and uploads your items to the register and you're off.
With regards to produce though,the stores need to make sure that their entire produce section has been uploaded. I've run into issues where the produce items I've had weren't in the data base yet for that day.
I still want to see a percentage off my bill for using them though. Until that happens, I'll only use them when I'm in a hurry, and only have a few things.

Home Depot is Home Depot, and I think they're all a disaster when it comes to checking out. At some level of their organization I think they lost sight of the fact that they are "selling parts for houses". I've seen gas station convenience stores with more counter space and less impulse items at the register than a typical Home Depot.

[Matt Meiser]

The key for self-checkout being successful is knowing how to use them. Where they fail is when you have inconsiderate people using them that should otherwise be using a normal checkout line.

If you have never used one before, don't make your 20-item purchase be the first time you need to learn how.
If you are buying a lot of produce that requires lookup in the computer, that is a good time to use a normal checkout line.
Scan an item and put it in the bag. Don't rearrange the items in the bag and don't pick them back up after they are there.
Don't have your children help you, and don't lean against the edge of the scale.
If you are buying a bunch of plumbing fixtures at Home Depot, make sure they all have bar codes.



All well and good except you are wrong about the full-cart checkout and you must buy perfectly shaped items that will neatly fit in a bag and stay where you put it. We try to avoid hamburger helper and TV dinners.


Within the next 10 years, everything you buy will have a RF chip in it, and you will just push your whole cart through a scanner, and pay the bill at the other side.. Cashiers and other checkout help will be minimal as the computers take over. Next step....Skynet.... I'll be back..(in my best Austrian accent!!)http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Everyone was saying that 10 years ago. Walmart supposedly had mandated them because someone (one rumor I heard was Siemens) sold them RFID tags for a penny a piece. Unfortunately that was several times less than the market rate at the time. Haven't seen a lot about it since. There's also some practical issues to be worked out--like that a powerful enough scanner to catch them all as some RF safety issues and to my understanding it can be hard to read an RFID read on a solid metal object (say a can). I don't really see a whole lot more RFID in manufacturing than I did 10 years ago. Barcode scanners are still pretty much the standard. Scanners are cheap, everyone knows how to use them and the tags are dirt cheap.

Our public library did implement RFID. You can set a stack of books on a reader and press a button to check out...but first you have to tell it how many books it should look for.

[Chris Damm]

The human checkers I use are much faster than those automated pieces of junk!

[Brian Ashton]

I see it come up in threads here all the time. Posters keep stating they hate self checkouts and refuse to use them. I don't understand the hatred.


I'd say you're wrong on the shift in employment. Once these machines are ironed out and rolling smoothly they will do away with thousands of jobs across the country and you'll only need a couple hundred of low paid techs to maintain them. I.e 1 tech could easily service 15 stores (I suspect it would be more like 50 stores) that used to employ 300 cashiers, or more if there are shifts involved...

Longterm they're taking away from the common person being able to gain and keep steady work, which usually means the young and semi or fully retired...

[Rich Engelhardt]

I hate them because they remind me of automated phone messages (press 1 for English, 2 for whatever)
and a phone & extension numbers in a business instead of a receptionist.

[Paul McGaha]

One of the grocery stores in our area (Shopper's Food Warehouse) has only self check registers open. Or at least that's how it is on Sunday mornings, which is when I go to their store.

It seems to me the store is using the customers as the cashiers, so they can employ fewer cashiers.

Personally, I don't care to learn how to be a grocery store cashier.

This store actually has a couple of products that are kind of hard to find or we wouldn't use the store.

Just my $.02. To each their own way.

PHM

[Jeremy Hamaker]

I'm indifferent on self-checkout lanes. Sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. It is kind of annoying that they're so literal-minded about placing each item, and not lifting bags off the platform til you're done. I don't worry too much about whether that "Evil Corporation" is making more (hiss) 'profit.' If it took self-checkouts for you to finally realize that business is in business to do business, well....
Everyone is always working the numbers and coming up with ideas to maximize profit on what they do. If it wasn't self-checkouts, it would be shrinking the size of the frosting coating on a pop-tart while charging the same price. Or making 'half gallon' cartons of ice cream only carry 1.5 quarts. (anybody else on this thread notice that yet...??).
And as far as 'protecting jobs' well, there's a reason nobody makes buggy-whips anymore. Because you don't need them!! When we don't need checkers anymore, checking will go away too. My job type didn't even exist when I was born. It might actually go away -during- my lifetime. Who would I be to ask that you all patronize me just so I can keep this job? There will always be new job types cropping up. It may not be fun to try to find another one, but I can think of a TON of not fun things that we all have to do, everyday in our lives, to keep on living.

[ray hampton]

I'm indifferent on self-checkout lanes. Sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. It is kind of annoying that they're so literal-minded about placing each item, and not lifting bags off the platform til you're done. I don't worry too much about whether that "Evil Corporation" is making more (hiss) 'profit.' If it took self-checkouts for you to finally realize that business is in business to do business, well....
Everyone is always working the numbers and coming up with ideas to maximize profit on what they do. If it wasn't self-checkouts, it would be shrinking the size of the frosting coating on a pop-tart while charging the same price. Or making 'half gallon' cartons of ice cream only carry 1.5 quarts. (anybody else on this thread notice that yet...??).
And as far as 'protecting jobs' well, there's a reason nobody makes buggy-whips anymore. Because you don't need them!! When we don't need checkers anymore, checking will go away too. My job type didn't even exist when I was born. It might actually go away -during- my lifetime. Who would I be to ask that you all patronize me just so I can keep this job? There will always be new job types cropping up. It may not be fun to try to find another one, but I can think of a TON of not fun things that we all have to do, everyday in our lives, to keep on living.

the size of ice cream containers get smaller BUT the cost keep GOING up

[Mark Bolton]

worry too much about whether that "Evil Corporation" is making more (hiss) 'profit.' If it took self-checkouts for you to finally realize that business is in business to do business, well.....

You miss the point. I am self employed for most of my adult life. Profit is my sole focus. The issue becomes scamming your customers for proffit as opposed to providing goods and services for profit. Marketing wizardry.

To your other points , I'm sure the vast majority have seen the depressed bottoms on jars, less in the spaghetti box, cereal box, a pound of coffee, on and on.

It's my opinion, and mine alone, that this kind of "laying down" is why our condition perpetually worsens. No one stands up to the cow feces any longer. Everyone tangled up in their hectic lives simply takes it as the new norm and moves on while we, the every day working class , get taken for more and more dollars for less and less quality and quantity.

You outline this entire concept concisely in your own post yet you just say "oh well, I just have to take it".

Sheep to the slaughter.

[Pat Barry]

Everything new, everyone hates it - that's normal - yes we are sheep and we are like old dogs too (at least for a while, then we come around to be sheep again).

My complaint is that when I go thru the normal checkout it seems a 50/50 proposition that there will be a problem where the person has to turn on the light and call for help. If thats the way it is then I NEED THE REAL PERSON. Last thing I want to do is wait for a real person to show up and then they need to call for help. Once the bugs are ironed out I am sure the era of the real cashier will be a long forgotten memory, just like full service gas stations.

[Jason Beam]

If someone finds value in it, can it be a "scam", really? I think it's naive to think people only seem to do things because they're tricked into it by some profit monger. People who find value in it, do so. People who don't, don't. I don't understand why so much has to be said about it.

If you don't like it, shut up and don't use it.
If you do like it, shut up and use it.

Isn't it just that simple?

Questioning why people like one thing and not another is silly to me. That answer is simple: To each his own, no? :)

[Ole Anderson]

Wow, everybody sure has an opinion on this one. Personally I prefer self checkout at HD and avoid Lowes because they don't have it. Our local Meijer grocery/everything store has several traditional self checkouts for lesser item shoppers, self checkouts with conveyors for folks that prefer self checkout with full baskets and plenty of full traditional checkout lines and I have used them all depending on my basket and how long the lines are. Yesterday I bought a Ridgid miter saw at HD and wondered if I should go down to the end of the store to the attended checkout lane, or try to figure out how to lift the big box to scan it at the self checkout. Within seconds a clerk from the seeming unattended self checkout saw me and scanned it with her handheld scanner and I was out of the store before I could have walked to the attended regular checkout. Now if I am doing a tax exempt transaction, or a pile of lumber, the choice is obvious. I know of folks that still refuse to buy a Detroit made car because they had a bad experience 30 years ago. Seems some of the same folks must have had a bad experience in the self checkout lane. (ok I am a little sensitive as I am from the Detroit area and see what has happened to folks in towns like Pontiac and Flint) My first few times were rough, but like anything else, you have to take time to learn how to use technology to your advantage.

[David Weaver]

I had a bad experience at the Home Depot self checkout lane three times this past year. Probably used self checkout a total of 6 times at HD. It's not antiquated experience, probably isn't for most of us. Usually, I'm floating out of the aisles somewhere in the pro area when I'm done going through the store, and usually there is no line at that area in the evenings and the checker has been there for 10 years and she really knows her stuff. It's not a hard decision to make, even if I only have one or two things.

Getting screws and stuff through the self checkout, or dealing with light or heavy things that the scanner doesn't notice or thinks are too heavy is not remotely worth it.

Same with the grocery stores and produce. Until they get it corrected so that the machine picks up what the produce is without me having to screw around with it looking up codes, etc, no deal.

[Brian Kerley]

I do use them pretty regularly, but since they don't have to pay $12.00 an hour to a clerk, and another $8.75 to a bagger, it would make a lot more sense if there was a discount for using the self checkout lanes.

Think about it this way....

Instead of raising their prices they eliminate staff to keep prices the same.

OR

Consider that wages are a small portion of what you are paying for your groceries.

[Curt Harms]

Just like woodworking or anything else, use the proper tool for the job. Do I really want to stand in line behind 3 people with heaped carts to buy a jug of milk? NO, self check-out is great. Would I want to use self-checkout to buy a bunch of stuff that either didn't have a barcode or was awkard to lift to where the bar code can be read? Again NO. Self check-out sucks there.

[John Lanciani]

... Yesterday I bought a Ridgid miter saw at HD and wondered if I should go down to the end of the store to the attended checkout lane, or try to figure out how to lift the big box to scan it at the self checkout. Within seconds a clerk from the seeming unattended self checkout saw me and scanned it with her handheld scanner and I was out of the store before I could have walked to the attended regular checkout...

If you need an attendant to assist with self checkout is it really a self checkout? What would have happened if the attendant had not been present? The outcome would quite likely have been very different.

[Mike Henderson]

If you need an attendant to assist with self checkout is it really a self checkout? What would have happened if the attendant had not been present? The outcome would quite likely have been very different.
I've had the same thing happen at HD. If I have a large or awkward item, the clerk will come and scan it so I don't have to manhandle it. That's seems to be good business. HD always has someone there on the self checkouts and most of the time they're just standing there waiting to help someone. And by helping us with the large items, it encourages us to go through the self checkout - and we still swipe the smaller items.

And for HD, they only have to assign one clerk to four checkouts. A win-win. I get checked out fast and HD only has to assign one clerk to four check stands.

Mike

[David Weaver]

Ours is staffed by one person, too, and in defense of the system that's there for self-checkout, if there is a time when I'm at that end of the store and I have nice regular sized items that have a predicatable weight (for example, a nice square box of trash bags and a can of spray paint or something), the self checkout usually works fine.

There is one other bonus about the self checkout, too, and that's that it doesn't ask you if you'd like to set up a credit card (that you declined to set up the previous 100 times you've bought something there, but may for some reason have had spontaneous brain combustion and want to do it this time).

[Ole Anderson]

And don't you hate it when you get in a regular checkout line and the clerk is as slow as molasses in January? Or the person in front of you pulls out a purse full of coupons? Or they have to send someone to aisle 13 to do a price check?

[Ole Anderson]

If you need an attendant to assist with self checkout is it really a self checkout? What would have happened if the attendant had not been present? The outcome would quite likely have been very different.While she scanned the item for me, I still swiped my own card, and even swiped a HD "store credit" card and checked myself out. Had the clerk not seen me I would have simply kept moving down the store to the attended lane. No biggie. Not all stores are staffed the same, ours is great.

[David Weaver]

I can't say I've had that happen in the last, I don't know how many years. The pro area lady at HD is top shelf, our local target runs like a swiss watch (it gets a LOT of business, and there is someone who calls staff to the registers if the lines are more than two people long) and the grocery store here is always overstaffed to some extent (it's a family business) so 75% of the time, there's an aisle that has a checker waiting to check someone out. I don't go to the grocery store that has the self checkout lanes simply because their prices are higher, otherwise I may wade through them. Their checkers are a bargaining group, though, and they are pros.

It does sound to some extent like I'm luckier than most with staffing, maybe because the stores along my neighborhood commercial area are very busy and consequently well staffed. The only other store that I go to where I do have to sometimes wait is Rockler, I wouldn't mind a self checkout there when all I'm doing is driving up the street to get a package of wood screws and don't want to wait several minutes for someone to come back to the register.

[John Lanciani]

While she scanned the item for me, I still swiped my own card, and even swiped a HD "store credit" card and checked myself out. Had the clerk not seen me I would have simply kept moving down the store to the attended lane. No biggie. Not all stores are staffed the same, ours is great.


Not to pick nits but I swipe my own card at HD (or Lowes, Wal-Mart, etc.) every time I go in.

Another lesser known fact for HD; you can check out anywhere there is a register. This includes the special order counter, customer service, and even the returns desk. Maybe I'm "that guy" but I never put up with only having one normal register open when there are lines. If I'm going to have to wait around to check out I don't tolerate orange aprons standing around counting floor tiles.

[Brian Elfert]

Target stores vary considerably in how fast the check out lanes move. I shop pretty often at the very first Target store opened which is almost always insanely busy. There are usually three or four express lanes open during busy times. I also shop sometimes at another Target store that isn't as busy, but the checkout lines are usually longer. They only have one or two express lanes and fairly often the express lanes are closed. I've only been to one Target that has self checkout and I don't even remember where it was. I tolerate shopping at Target without self checkout because the prices are cheaper than the grocery chains that have self checkout. There is no convenient Walmart on my drive home, but that changes in a few months when a new Walmart opens.

I don't quite understand why stores spend the money to install 20+ checkout lanes when you're lucky if five are even open most of the time. I have been to Target during the holidays when I've seen every single register in use. You would think temporary registers for the holidays would be less expensive. Target has portable registers they use at their Downtown Minneapolis store during the midday rush of workers on lunch break,

[David Weaver]

Stores are like that where I grew up. 15 registers and 2 open at any given time, and sometimes one. I wonder how they can afford to even keep the store open for those hours if one cashier can handle the flow.

Target here (suburbia) on a given weeknight, will have about half of the registers open and 3/4ths on the weekends in the middle of the afternoon. An exercise in contrast is going back and forth between target and Sears up the road.

Sams is the same way here, too. Usually all of the lanes are open on a weekend, and they have a self checkout. People don't often leave sams with a few items, though, and there's usually three or four people in the self checkout area who have decided they are going to check out $600 worth of stuff in the self checkout lane. They should make the self checkout 5 items or less, and it would end up being used properly.

[Eric DeSilva]

I often use the one at home depot, but about 1 out of 3 times, I end up standing around waiting for the attendant because the system screws something up and I can't fix it on my own.

In my area, I've found the HD self-checkout to be about the bottom of the barrel in terms of functionality. I'll use it if I've got one thing with a bar code that I'm buying. Otherwise, I check out in the trade line, which is usually empty.

[Eric DeSilva]

I agree with Matt and Phil as well as many other issues with them but my main one is ad I already posted in the other thread. You are willingly working for that company FOR FREE. It's masterful. Some wizard realized that they can cut costs and capitalize on everyone's hectic life.

My girlfriend is a self checkout junkie and I would challenge anyone to get through a self checkout at the grocery with a full cart as fast as the cashier can ring you out. The teller assistance, "please place the item in the bagging area", searching for sku's for produce, etc.. I've timed it and there is no comparison. A small basket or a few times sure. Busy day and all the cashier lanes are long lines, sure.

But my main thing is no discount and no price savings. What if you came to my shop, I quoted you for some cabinetry, and I expected you to pack boards, sweep the floor, or do some of the other responsibilities that were to be provided under my price and didn't give you a break on the cabinetry? Isn't that the old "sweat equity"? You do some of my work and I give you a little break?

This seems like upside down thinking to me. Just because I can impose costs on a business doesn't mean I should. Or that I'm standing on some kind of grand ideological principle by imposing those costs instead of allowing them to achieve some efficiency savings. For example, I can grab a whole sheaf of napkins at fast food restaurants. I don't, because I don't need them, and it seems silly to do it just because they aren't offering you a discount for not taking a whole sheaf. I can call customer service and have them walk me through installation of a product step by step because they make that service available, but I don't, because I usually find the instructions sufficient. I don't call up anyway just because they didn't offer me a discount for not calling customer service.

Besides, setting it up the way you have also postulates a zero-sum game. I use self-checkout because it serves my interest too--it isn't just the store that benefits. 99% of the time--given the right conditions--self checkout is a lot faster. The "right conditions" being not a lot of bagging, because the self-checkouts aren't equipped for that, and not a lot of coded/weighed produce, since a cashier generally has all that memorized and can do that a lot faster. Maybe I'm more used to interacting with that sort of tech, but I zip through self-checkouts. Heck--there's a much, much loved grocery chain (Wegman's) where they provide the ability for you to weigh your produce as you pick it up, and print you a bar coded ticket on the spot. When I'm at Wegman's I do that, because there is an efficiency there that I admire--the number is available to me, the incremental delay is negligible, and it gets me checked out faster. I don't set it up mentally as "the store is making me work for them and therefore I'm getting shafted."

[Rick Potter]

I think Curt Harms said it best, about using the right tool for the job. A few easily handled items....self checkout, no contest. A cart load of items plus a couple 2X10's....give me the cashier.

Rick Potter

[Mel Fulks]

We have chain grocery store that is the most laid back any thing goes place I have ever encountered. Recently they had two women chatting together in "customer service". I asked them if they would call me when the tea I had already been in there several times for came in. They essentially said no! I asked the manager ,he said the tea guy was "pretty Independant and leaves what he wants"....so I said SUPPOSE HE DECIDES TO LEAVE PORNOGRAPHY! I THOUGHT YOU WERE THE MANAGER! The checkers are extremely slow and chatty ,every checker always has a bagger .Also quite convivial and chatty. The store seems to be a hangout for the lonely and handicapped .Certainly they should be given good service ,but a checkout line is no place for a coffee clatch . My point is that a store can be taken over by a lazy acquiescing manager and lazy employees. I politely told the manager his store was DOOMED!.Havent seen any self check at COSTCO ! Those people are fast!.

[Brian Elfert]

and lazy employees. I politely told the manager his store was DOOMED!.Havent seen any self check at COSTCO ! Those people are fast!.

All of the Costco stores in my area have self checkout. Four of them at the store I usually frequent. Their machines use the video scanning method of verifying purchases instead of weighing items. Costco is the only store I have never had a problem with self checkout.

My local Sam's Club has also added self checkout too. Probably the easiest self checkout I have used to date. Their self checkouts don't verify items. Everything can be left in the cart and they have a wireless bar code scanner to scan your items.

[Jeremy Hamaker]

You miss the point. I am self employed for most of my adult life. Profit is my sole focus. The issue becomes scamming your customers for proffit as opposed to providing goods and services for profit. Marketing wizardry.

To your other points , I'm sure the vast majority have seen the depressed bottoms on jars, less in the spaghetti box, cereal box, a pound of coffee, on and on.

It's my opinion, and mine alone, that this kind of "laying down" is why our condition perpetually worsens. No one stands up to the cow feces any longer. Everyone tangled up in their hectic lives simply takes it as the new norm and moves on while we, the every day working class , get taken for more and more dollars for less and less quality and quantity.

You outline this entire concept concisely in your own post yet you just say "oh well, I just have to take it".

Sheep to the slaughter.


Maybe I should back up and re-state/amplify what I was getting at. Business has always been in business to do business. That is a -healthy- thing. There are changes that happen all the time. I mentioned some of the examples. When I see these changes, I don't automatically, or continually interpret these moves as acts of greed because "corporations are eeeeevil".
As you mention yourself, a business that 'scams' its customers doesn't really stay in business long. But when discussions like this come up, I don't see very many people bring up other reasons why these changes take place. It's always about the company to customer side, and quite often decried as a scam, or a ripoff, or a 'way to get the customer to do the company's work for free.' I don't often see any discussion about the 'input' side, between the raw materials, logistics, labor costs, etc... (since my first post on this thread, yes I -have- seen mention of it...).
I don't think it's "laying down" to understand that when a company's costs of doing business go up, they have only a couple viable moves to make. They can either raise prices, or they can leave the price alone and reduce service/product. Sometimes you can combine those two for a lesser impact that each will have.
So no, when I see a self-checkout or a smaller package for the same price (or geez, even a smaller package with ALSO a raised price), I don't feel scammed, and I don't feel like I'm "laying down."
and as far as "standing up to it" goes, given we're in a society that is based on leveraged debt, using a currency that is not fixed to anything tangible but 'faith and credit' you can "stand up to it" all you want and it won't change reality. Costs WILL go up. Which means service, or product or price MUST adjust.

[Brad Cambell]

That is what happened to the Wal-Mart in my area. They have a bank of 6 or 8 self check outs with only a small area that you have to walk through to get out with 1 or 2 attendants. It makes sense that shoplifting would be their biggest concerns.

[Brad Cambell]

I will not go through self check outs due to the fact that they are getting rid jobs. Say what you want but that is the way that I feel and nothing you say will change that.


I will not check back on this topic or reply further to this thread.

[Eric DeSilva]

I will not go through self check outs due to the fact that they are getting rid jobs. Say what you want but that is the way that I feel and nothing you say will change that.

Hmm. I view them as a convenience to me as well--they allow me to get out faster. But having said that, you really ought to be boycotting stores that have self-checkouts, not the self-checkouts, since it is the store that is controlling hiring. Since the store is presumably implementing efficiency-enhancing measures to keep costs low in response to consumer demands, I'm presuming this means you are willing to pay more for your groceries?


I will not check back on this topic or reply further to this thread.

Oops.

[Pat Barry]

I will not check back on this topic or reply further to this thread.

I'd like to see if this is true.

[Mark Bolton]

I don't set it up mentally as "the store is making me work for them and therefore I'm getting shafted."

But that is not "in effect" whats happening, its "actually" whats happening. Not that your getting shafted, that is a mere matter of perception, but you ARE unequivocally working for them. No bones about it. Its perfectly fine if you choose to do so, Ive stated that repeatedly but the title of the thread is why do "you" hate....

I wish you would be one of my customers because I could do less work and make more money. Given I can craft your work in a way you find some benefit in, you are willing to be an unpaid employee. Perhaps something like, you need some cabinets quickly, I tell you we can speed up the process if you do some odds and ends around my shop, but the price remains the same.

It works for people because they feel they are, and most often "are", saving some time. They are willing to trade working for free, saving the store a salary, for time.

Perhaps its because I am self employed, no idea, but I am not willing to make that trade unless I receive some compensation, lower prices, incentives, fuel points, whatever they wish. Its simply the principal of work-for-pay.

There is no disputing the fact that they are transferring a responsibility which was covered by their paid staff to their customers that are willing to do that staff's job for free. A win win for them, and a partial win for the customer. It just smacks to me as yet again the consumer laying down which is each individuals right.

[Mel Fulks]

Well said ,Mark. This all started with restaurants "letting " you make your own salad....I won't do it. Ok ,maybe it started with "dude ranches", pay to work as a cowboy. Soon you will get a letter saying its time for your prostate check containing a bill and a rubber glove.

[Eric DeSilva]

It works for people because they feel they are, and most often "are", saving some time. They are willing to trade working for free, saving the store a salary, for time.

Perhaps its because I am self employed, no idea, but I am not willing to make that trade unless I receive some compensation, lower prices, incentives, fuel points, whatever they wish. Its simply the principal of work-for-pay.

You acknowledge that most people save time by using self-checkout. So you are going out of your way--imposing a time penalty on yourself--in order to avoid your perception that you are "working" for them? That seems like you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Do you use ATMs? That is unquestionably the bank equivalent of a self-checkout for most transactions. Or do you insist on getting cash from a teller, even though it takes longer, just because you don't get a discount from using the ATM?

[Mark Bolton]

You acknowledge that most people save time by using self-checkout. So you are going out of your way--imposing a time penalty on yourself--in order to avoid your perception that you are "working" for them? That seems like you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Do you use ATMs? That is unquestionably the bank equivalent of a self-checkout for most transactions. Or do you insist on getting cash from a teller, even though it takes longer, just because you don't get a discount from using the ATM?

I already covered the ATM thing, I bank with a small bank with few ATM's so I dont use ATM's very much at all. I have the convenience of dealing with a teller because my schedule allows and am often doing large transactions/deposits for my work. But for non-teller deposits (non-cash) I use the mail (bank is 45 minutes away - rural location -). If I am pained for cash after hours, yes, I have to use an ATM and pay the penalty (2.50-3.00 for me) with absolutely irritates the bujeezes out of me.

Look, I realize (I think everyone in the thread does) this conversation has so many personal and local/regional conditions which effect each persons experience. In my area (very rural) I dont often encounter very long grocery lines. Perhaps its the times I tend to shop, perhaps its the rural area, and so on. I also dont encounter horrible cashiers who are slow and drag out the process or bad baggers. I cant say Ive ever been stuck behind someone with a bag full of coupons, and if I were, the cashier in the next lane usually flags me over. This is clearly not the case for all. Additionally I only shop for myself or myself and GF and rarely shop for a handful of things. If I go to the store its usually for several days worth of groceries.

I have used the self checkout for a handful of items but in all honesty if there is an open cashier lane, its faster. It has to be just based on simple math! They scan twice as fast, they are bagging while the cashier is scanning (though I learned there are places where you must do your own bagging), you swipe your payment WHILE he/she is scanning which is a separate operation at the self checkout. It would at the very least be a tie and that to me would even be doubtful.

As I have said, in my experience, and this is not just anecdotal because I deal with this fairly regularly with my slef-checker-GF, there is little time savings (in my area) with using self checkout. I watch her frantically pushing buttons on the screen scanning produce, I wonder when the last time that screen was disinfected (I see the cashiers disinfect the conveyor and cleanup after chicken juice etc), I watch her frustration when the screen says "an attendant has been notified to assist you", and so on. And while I wouldnt wager an inter-relationship war over it, I have often been tempted to split the list in half and see who makes it to the car first :eek:. But alas I am hopefully a bit wiser than that and while Im a late bloomer Im learning to pick my battles :)

In honestly watching this, in my area, at the times and places I shop, I see no benefit to using them and I have a moral opposition to them baiting me into de-staffing their operation at great reward to their bottom line while offering me nothing more than a slight advantage on the rare occasion that I shop for a handful of items.

I cant be any clearer, for ME, other than for an overflowing cart of groceries, you give me 5% discount for self checkout, give me fuel points, give me something, and Ill use it for anything under $100.00. Like I said in the beginning, I guarantee you, a store that offers a discount if you check yourself out, will be busting at the seams with customers.

[Mark Bolton]

Well said ,Mark. This all started with restaurants "letting " you make your own salad....I won't do it. Ok ,maybe it started with "dude ranches", pay to work as a cowboy. Soon you will get a letter saying its time for your prostate check containing a bill and a rubber glove.

As always mel, I cant get a read on your "wit" :rolleyes: I guess now my days at Shoney's salad bar are over... cursed..

In all honesty, I will bet you a few bucks my GP would love the day that happened. I think the doc's hate the old DRE worse than the patients half the time. At least we hopefully get some peace of mind out of it.

[Mark Bolton]

"letting " you make your own salad....I won't do it.

Actually Mel, I take back my comment because in trade for making my own its all you can eat!!! Score! See... pay-for-work ;)

[Brian Elfert]

I like and use self checkouts because they save me time getting out of the store. Nothing more, nothing less. It generally takes me far longer to get checked out at Target than at the grocery stores that have self checkout. (Target's prices tend to be at least 10% less when the other grocers aren't having sales.) Yes, a cashier may be able to process the transaction faster if there is no line, but how often is there a cashier with no customers?

Having lots of produce, lots of coupons, or a full cart are certainly good reasons to use a real cashier. I doubt any grocery store will ever offer any meaningful discount for using self checkout because the margins at a grocery store are among the lowest in retail sales.

[David Weaver]

I always wonder that about grocery stores. When I was in college, one of my marketing classes (which I was unfortunately required to take) mentioned that at the time in the 1990s, the most profitable common business was grocery stores, and the least profitable was airlines.

Airlines is not a surprise now, but back then before all of the failures and mergers, most people didn't guess it. The professor said only one person ever guessed grocery stores, and that was someone who was taking classes as an adult, but working for McCormick spices at the time.

Her comment was "I know it's grocery stores, because they don't pay us for product before it sells, and half the time, we have trouble getting them to pay for product after it's already sold". She was probably surprised to be right.

In terms of their overall margin, maybe by percentage it's not that high, but they turn over revenue vs. their invested capital so fast that they are generally not squeaking by to pay their staff unless they are a poorly run operation with bad marketing skills (which is true for some small town grocers).

I suppose it's important to differentiate between % margin on a dollar of revenue vs. % return for invested capital over a period of time. Grocery stores do extremely well on the latter, and not sharing the savings from any self-checkout has, I think, a lot more to do with "we don't have to share it with you, so we won't share it with you".

[Brian Elfert]

I checked a number of websites and they all say that grocery stores make a net profit margin of between 1 and 3 percent. Average in 2010 was 1.9%. The traditional chains make just under 2% profit margin while specialty chains like Whole Foods can make upwards of 5%. I'm not a finance guy, but 1.9% net profit margin doesn't seem like much to me. I work in an industry that 10 to 15 years ago made many times the profit margin of a grocery store. Lots of references to printing money. (Sadly, profit margins for the industry are a fraction of that now.)

One poster suggested a 5% discount for using a self checkout at a grocery store. I don't understand how the store wouldn't break even or lose money with a discount like that. I'm pretty sure 5% of your grocery bill doesn't go to pay for a cashier.

[Robert Delhommer Sr]

If I have only one or two items I may use them, most of the time there is a problem and you have to wait for help. I have once walked out leaving my items for them to restock because it was too frustrating waiting for help for with their piXx poor system. :)

[Mark Bolton]

One poster suggested a 5% discount for using a self checkout at a grocery store. I don't understand how the store wouldn't break even or lose money with a discount like that. I'm pretty sure 5% of your grocery bill doesn't go to pay for a cashier.

Brian,
First of all, I am the one poster, let's not tiddly wink.

Second, 2% profit is after all expenses.

In your pocket.

IOf course it's not what other industries average but it's not a margin, it's net profit.

Third, the net profits you are reading doubtfully factor in the paybacks of the self checkouts over time. It's no different than you buying a new high high efficiency furnace. There are up front costs and over time you recoup your investment and once you hit the payback your in the money. I think the two of us would be utter fools if we thought the grocery industry was working on 10+ year paybacks like you and I do on a furnace. Dont you? ;-)

Fourth, I said "give me anything". Which means, share your gains with me at a pittance of what your actually gaining (because that's the way the real world works, you throw the people a bone, while you eat a steak). Embed it in some fuel points where you can skim a little more. Build it into some other incentive where your in a sense lying to me and I'll really end up with nothing, give me SOMETHING..

Because trying to con me into thinking replacing several of your paid staff with my free labor in exchange for my occasional getting out of the store quicker ain't cutting it.

[Mike Henderson]

Because trying to con me into thinking replacing several of your paid staff with my free labor in exchange for my occasional getting out of the store quicker ain't cutting it.
Getting me out of the store quicker is plenty enough for me. I absolutely hate waiting in line, especially a line that takes a long time to advance, such as a cashier line with three full carts ahead of me.

Mike

[Pat Barry]

I still think its the same scenario as the self-serve gas pumps. Am I the only one? I'll play Nostradamus and speculate that in a couple years we will look back and laugh at the arguments we are having here because it will only be in the mom and pop stores that there is still a cashier.

[Samuel Jones]

I think in nearest future everything will be virtual, you will not even be able to leave the house, there will not be any lines in stores... And the information about each person can be loaded from different sires, such as http://radaris.com/, and they will know all the criminal story of the person and his debts...

[Rick Potter]

I tried that out Samuel,

Not bad, it found me and even got my age right when I had a birthday about a week ago. It did place me in several cities too many, but the big thing is...........it completely missed that tool giveaway Ponzi scheme that made me the wealthy man I am today :cool:.

Rick Potter

[Brian Elfert]

I bet the only way we'll be rid of cashiers is if they put RFID or similar technology on all products so the products never have to leave the cart. I suspect some stores would keep their human cashiers as a competitive advantage if other grocery chains started to go 100% self service.

I didn't start driving until after full service gas stations were pretty much history. I remember stopping at a small gas station on a road years ago and wondering why someone came out when I pulled up to the pump. I didn't realize the station was full service. There is a gas station in a little bitty town in Nevada where the attendant still greets every customer at the pumps, but he doesn't actually pump your gas.

[ray hampton]

I bet the only way we'll be rid of cashiers is if they put RFID or similar technology on all products so the products never have to leave the cart. I suspect some stores would keep their human cashiers as a competitive advantage if other grocery chains started to go 100% self service.

I didn't start driving until after full service gas stations were pretty much history. I remember stopping at a small gas station on a road years ago and wondering why someone came out when I pulled up to the pump. I didn't realize the station was full service. There is a gas station in a little bitty town in Nevada where the attendant still greets every customer at the pumps, but he doesn't actually pump your gas.

WHAT if a disable driver need fuel, do they find a able-body driver to fill the tank

[Mike Henderson]

WHAT if a disable driver need fuel, do they find a able-body driver to fill the tank

Here in California, anyone with a disabled placard can have an attendant pump gas for them at self serve prices.

Mike

[George Gyulatyan]

AGAIN, SELF CHECKOUTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO REPLACE ALL CASHIERS. GROCERY STORES INSTALL THEM TO REPLACE EXPRESS LANES! GROCERY STORES ARE PUTTING IN SIGNS LIMITING THE NUMBER OF ITEMS CUSTOMER SHOULD USE SELF CHECKOUT FOR. CUSTOMERS WITH FULL CARTS SHOULD BE USING A HUMAN CASHIER AND STORES STILL HAVE THOSE.

I suppose those who don't like self checkouts replacing cashiers also still frequent the few full serve gas stations still around because they don't want the attendants out of work? .
Dude, stop with the all caps, and all ad-hominem remarks and your flawed assumptions. I've read two of your posts in this thread and your assumptions are annoying and your caps above, just downright rude... Read Matt's ane Phil's posts... pretend they're in ALL CAPS in case you're too blind to read that what they're saying has nothing to do with full serve gas stations, dialing 0 and worrying about low wage jobs.

THE REASON MOST OF US DON'T LIKE SELF SERVE IS BECAUSE INEVITABLY SOMETHING DOESN'T WORK OR YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR CLERK ASSISTANCE ANYWAY.

Did it get through to you now?

[Richard McComas]

I wonder what countries get those software developer and engineering jobs Brian mentioned in his post. Also what country do we borrow the money from to to put those low wage cashiers on welfare. To those folks I'm sure those jobs are important. After all they are people just like you and me.

[Brian Elfert]

Dude, stop with the all caps, and all ad-hominem remarks and your flawed assumptions. I've read two of your posts in this thread and your assumptions are annoying and your caps above, just downright rude... Read Matt's ane Phil's posts... pretend they're in ALL CAPS in case you're too blind to read that what they're saying has nothing to do with full serve gas stations, dialing 0 and worrying about low wage jobs.

THE REASON MOST OF US DON'T LIKE SELF SERVE IS BECAUSE INEVITABLY SOMETHING DOESN'T WORK OR YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR CLERK ASSISTANCE ANYWAY.

Did it get through to you now?

I purposely posted in all CAPS to get my point across. If you don't like it, fine. If self checkout doesn't work for you because you have too many issues that require intervention then use a regular cashier. That is certainly a valid reason not to use self checkout.

I'll never understand all the people who will never use self checkout because they want to keep human cashiers employed, but it is a free country and they can continue to use human cashiers if they like. I use whatever method gets me out of the store fastest. If I have a cartload of groceries a human cashier will be faster, but for 10 items self checkout is usually faster.

[Ole Anderson]

Passing through Oregon recently, I found out they still REQUIRE that the attendant pump your gas. It felt strange after all these years of self pumping.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Passing through Oregon recently, I found out they still REQUIRE that the attendant pump your gas. It felt strange after all these years of self pumping.

Seemed like a good idea after the time I filed up the car in Vegas and the guy next to me smoking away pulled his still pumping hose out of his tank spraying surrounding cars as he made his way to the pump. I had visions of the whole flaming station in coast to coast newspapers

[Frederick Ieppert]

Sorry, but I do believe that they do displace some workers. Also, when I leave work I don't intend to work part time at the checkout! I don't want someone doing my job and I don't intend to do theirs. Additionally in my area some of those so called low paying cashier jobs don't pay just too bad and they also have benefits! They also don't discount the items that go thru self checkout lanes. So yea I hate them, I've got time to wait a couple of minutes to not help displace an American worker just to add to the bottom line of whatever chain store.

[Biff Johnson]

I hate them because I don't work for the store. If they want me to check the groceries then they should deeply discount the price. Why not have me stock the shelves, too? Heck, why don't I just go to the truck and find what I need? I live in Oregon and we don't even pump our own gas and I love it!

[Stan Calow]

It's a slippery slope. I am certain they will start making customers unload the trucks soon.

[Jamie Cowan]

I agree! I don't mind the self-checkout, but I've always thought I should get a little off, since I'm doing all the work.

[Pat Barry]

Why is it that everyone resists change?

Do you get a little off the price if you bag your own at the grocery store?
Do they charge you extra for bags if they supply them to you for your groceries?
Do they haul the bags to your car and load them for you? - I remember this was the way it was.
Who pumps your gas?
Do you insist on going into the station to pay the cashier or do you pay at the pump?
Do you pay in advance? Is that better for you?

Look - get used to it, the change is happening. Either lead it, follow it, or get out of the way.

[Ole Anderson]

Went to HD yesterday. Had 4 small items to check. Went through the self serve checkout in less time than it would have taken me to walk to the end where there were attended checkouts. I do it for my convenience, not to save the big box money. And I agree with Pat.

[David Weaver]

Look - get used to it, the change is happening. Either lead it, follow it, or get out of the way.

Betamax and laserdisc, here we come! Graphite and compacted paper guitars, grasp the future!

A more sensible option (to me) would seem to be, stand by and observe, and adopt what works and discard what doesn't. Let someone else be the beta tester unless there's an incentive for you to be the beta tester.

[Mark Bolton]

So this is not to revive the thread in any way I just had a really ironic instance this morning that brought this entire conversation to mind.

I have an order in for abrasives that will land next week but am running really tight on sanding belts and wouldnt make it through the weekend. So this morning I reluctantly pulled into Lowes to pick up a few to tide me over. Grabbed a 5 pack of three different grits and headed for the contractor/trade checkout as its nearly always my fastest exit. It was early, perhaps 7:30. Just as Im closing in on the register (one open, sometimes two down there) a guy wheels out of the lumber isles with a cart of mixed paneling, trim, and other bleh,.. and gets to the register. I turn around and start walking back to the regular cashier lanes. At about the half way mark, an older woman and her husband/compatriot come out of an isle and are walking just behind me. I overhear her say to her compatriot "want to use the self scan" or some lingo other than self checkout. Never heard the response. I noticed they had a cart with a few items in it but no idea of a piece count, just a few items. I would guess a few more than my three items to be scanned.

I get to the registers and there are two cashiers ringing. One with her light on, and the other with her light off. Turns out the light off was dealing with some guy trying to buy something on an account or some hullaballo which was likely why her light was off. Im now standing in the isle with a woman in front of me who has in her cart a pedestal fan and a few holiday gee gaws, decoration type stuff. As Im standing there I glance over and the couple is in the self check lane. While this is going on, the woman who is running the register Im at, has a "head cashier" name tag on and her work ipone is constantly ringing. She is stopping to answer it, telling the other woman (also with a head cashier badge) that the lumber register needs change, 1's, 5's, and so on. Then another call comes in and she has to page someone. And so on. Needless to say, I am standing in that line getting quite p*ssed off because at the very least you could be ringing AND talking or let the manager (who was intervening in the account sale) answer the phone calls. I get a bit more perturbed but the sale completes and the woman in front of me walks away. I walk up, three quick scans, swipe my business card, tell her a PO number, and Im off.

Low and behold, at the identical time I walked off the end of the register, to my right, is the couple walking out with their items from the self checkout. We walked through the exit and to the parking lot 5' away from each other.

I realize fully that this scientifically means nothing. They could have been lollygagging, they could have been gabbing with the self check attendant for all I know. They could have had trouble with an item, or more small items, no idea. And of course had I gone to the self check with my three little items I may have beat them out anyway with less items and being faster at scanning, wouldnt have gotten p.o'd and flustered, and so on...

Needless to say I found it one of those funny moments.

[Julie Moriarty]

The two major grocery stores around here have eliminated, or are in the process of eliminating, the self-checkout lanes. An article in the paper said theft was the reason. Some people have worked very hard to find out what cheap items can be scanned and replaced with more expensive items when placing them in the bag. Human ingenuity!

I know one person who worked as a cashier years ago, back when they started installing self-checkout lanes, and she was told by her store manager the company projected a __% profit from the elimination of cashiers. (Don't remember the % at the time.) Changing over to self-checkout lanes wasn't cheap. There's no way these companies would have paid for the new self-checkout lanes if they didn't see a profit on the near horizon. The long term plan was to go to 100% self-checkout lanes but that didn't work, for a number of reasons.

My friend said what the self-checkout lanes did accomplish was lowering the pay for cashiers. Cashiers in her store were some of the highest paid employees, second only to management and department heads. But with the self-checkout lanes and scanners, the pay scale stagnated until everyone caught up.

As to the lines, I've seen self-checkout lines go all the way down the store aisle. So much for fast. It seems many people automatically go to self-checkout, because there's been times when there have been lines there while cashier lanes are open. And good luck if your item doesn't scan! :rolleyes: The stores that have eliminated them now seem to be doing a pretty good job of keeping things moving quickly. So if the self-checkout one day goes the way of the dinosaur, I think we'll all survive.

[David Weaver]

Some people have worked very hard to find out what cheap items can be scanned and replaced with more expensive items when placing them in the bag. Human ingenuity!


I guess if the sale deal wasn't good enough, they made their own sale deal!

In almost anything in life, it's better to say "we'll see how it works out" than "we'll make this much more profit when we switch".

Since this topic came up, I've managed to use self checkout zero times.

[Cary Falk]

I use what ever is the fastest way to get out of the store. The majority of the time that is self checkout. I hardly seeing scanning and bagging as work. I have to take the itmes out of my arms and set them on the conveyor anyway. It is one motion to move it across the scanner and into a bag. I also use the auto mailing kiosk at the post office. I don't see the need to stand in line for 30 minutes when I can be done in 5.:eek: