Scaling issue with Illustrator and ULS

[matt zabel]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I learned the basics of lasering on an Epilog at a community shop. The shop closed and I've spent the last year working a second job and saving up...

I just bought a 2006 ULS M360 and run a Windows 8 (ugh...) laptop with Adobe Creative Cloud - Illustrator. I have the Windows 8 ULS driver installed and it's talking to the laser. However, when I go to print, the "Media Size" field says "Defined by Driver" and shows 125in x 83.5in. As a result, my image ends up scaled down and the vector lines to not cut. I tried changing the document size to square 24x24 (per the ULS manual's recommendation) and setting the Media Size to "User Defined - Landscape" but this didn't solve it, still super small and no vector cut (vector line is at .1 pt, per manual, also tried .001pt). The seller hooked up his laptop and had no issues printing from Corel, so it seems to be the driver, Illustrator, or Windows 8, or (hopefully) some simple setting.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

-matt.

[Scott Shepherd]

Welcome Matt! (sorry, had to do that)

When you click on "Print" in Illustrator, there's a few things to check. Check that in the "Options" field where it says "Scaling", make sure it says "Do not scale". Then click on "Setup" at the bottom left, go into your printer driver and and click on the "Engraving Field" tab and see what that's set at. It should match your table.

I don't print from Illustrator on the ULS, but I can give it a try later this evening if those things don't get you there.

[matt zabel]

Thanks for the welcome and quick response, Steve (aka Scott)!

Both of those things are set as you described. I tried switching to "Fit to page", and that got it close to the right size but stretched it vertically. Also, still no vector cutting. I've tried with lines at both .1pt and .001", color coded red, with appropriate settings programmed in the Setup, and it doesn't recognize them. If I change the red color to raster only, it rasters the thin line, so it's only affecting the vector mode. see photos.
Here's my test sample - lineweight shown.
273810
And here's what I see on the print window - note the huge size of media as "defined by driver". You can also see my document size (24x24).
273811

[matt zabel]

More info:
I downloaded a trial of Corel for comparison. In short, vector works fine (so maybe i'm doing something wrong on the Illustrator side), but there's something still wrong with scaling. I have my Corel document set up at 24x12 to match the laser bed and have the graphic positioned in the upper left, but when I view the print preview it shows a huge print area with my graphic kinda in the middle. Where is this big print area coming from - I suspect that for some reason the driver is telling the computer this? Also, when the graphic cuts and engraves, it is stretched vertically (or squeezed horizontally).
Here's the print preview:
273812
And here's the result. It's about 1/4 the size it should be and stretched.
273813

[Kevin Cederquist]

I have a newer machine (vls4.6) and running windows 7 with illustrator cs6. I think your problem is with the print driver. I have a serious problem with it squishing the imagery whenever I set up the document for using the rotary. Oddly I don't have the problem when I use coreldraw. I've spoken with uls tech support about the problem and they are stumped... I have had marginal success printing the image to a .PDF, then printing the PDF to the laser.

[Dan Hintz]

I had major problems with my ULS printing text (raster) from Inkscape. After a few back and forths with ULS on the matter, it was obvious they had no idea what the problem was or any intention of tracking it down and fixing it, so I gave up. In my case, it was obviously a driver issue... if I can print to a myriad of other printers (different drivers each) amd see none of the same issues, it's the driver.

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't have CC on the computer that runs our laser, but I do have CS4 on it. I experiment briefly. What I noticed is that when I had "defined by driver" selected, it was auto rotating the image in the preview in Illustrator's print dialogue. That would explain the scaling issues. It's squishing or pulling it to compensate for that. What I did was select "user defined" and then it corrected that issue immediately and the job went over the right size, in the right location. I couldn't get a red outline to go over either. It's showing it as a raster element no matter what (once it's in the job control, it's clear it's a raster object). I thought it had to do with color. I don't have the Universal color palette installed for Illustrator. I noticed it was setup as CMYK, so I changed everything to RGB, did RGB red, sent it over, still the same issue. I selected green instead of red for the outline and it went right over and vector cut the green outline.

That tells me that it's color related. There's something we're missing in setting up the document. Either the document is setup as CMYK and we're working in RGB, or vice versa, and it doesn't like what it's doing to the red in that conversion.

Take a look at those things and see if you can work it out from there, but hopefully by putting in the user defined size, you will solve your scaling issue.

[matt zabel]

Thanks for the feedback and troubleshooting, guys! You're the cat's pajamas...

I tried using an older laptop with Vista and Corel. [Aside: how did I end up with TWO craptacular operating systems??? I managed to end up with both Vista and Windows 8 --- wish I had Windows 7]
Anyway, on Vista with Corel everything works just fine. So, it's definitely the Windows 8 driver. ULS tech support got back to me quickly and said there was something weird about how the Windows 8.1 update looks at scaling, however, his suggestion to tweak the image density didn't work.
I tried a green line for vector and it just engraved it, but at least it didn't completely ignore it.
If ULS can't help me fix it I'm considering either:
- installing windows 7 ($100) and running illustrator (crossing my fingers it works)
- buying Corel ($500?) and printing from my old Vista PC

Is anybody successfully running a Universal machine with Win7+Illustrator?

[Kevin Cederquist]

Thanks for the feedback and troubleshooting, guys! You're the cat's pajamas...

I tried using an older laptop with Vista and Corel. [Aside: how did I end up with TWO craptacular operating systems??? I managed to end up with both Vista and Windows 8 --- wish I had Windows 7]
Anyway, on Vista with Corel everything works just fine. So, it's definitely the Windows 8 driver. ULS tech support got back to me quickly and said there was something weird about how the Windows 8.1 update looks at scaling, however, his suggestion to tweak the image density didn't work.
I tried a green line for vector and it just engraved it, but at least it didn't completely ignore it.
If ULS can't help me fix it I'm considering either:
- installing windows 7 ($100) and running illustrator (crossing my fingers it works)
- buying Corel ($500?) and printing from my old Vista PC

Is anybody successfully running a Universal machine with Win7+Illustrator?

I have been running the ULS software on windows 7 with illustrator without problems, except the rotary issue I mentioned. When we got the laser, we had been using adobe products with a vinyl cutter, and didn't want to learn a new software suite like Corel, so we stuck with illustrator. Our local ULS rep knows nothing of adobe software, so it was kind of a learn as we go thing. Some of the quirks we have come across (other than the rotary issue I've mentioned) is that occasionally vector colors will not show up in the ULS control software, or they will show up as raster files. I've found when that happens it's usually the vector graphic is too thick (illustrator doesn't have a "hairline" option, we use inches, so set it at 0.001 inches); 1 touch photo option is inadvertently checked in the ULS software; or the vector throughput is too low (though this usually is only a problem if the vector cutting patter is complex). I've also accidentally skipped the color I had my vector graphics in, so it obviously didn't make it over to the ULS software either.

As for your problem with the scaling, I'm willing to be it is a driver incompatibility with windows 8. If you have access to windows 7 installation media, you can always install it and try it. Windows 7 will let you run for something like 3 days without activating it.

It is worth noting that we nearly always have to select "User defined size" in the print drop down, and then select portrait or Landscape, so that the image looks correct on the small print preview. In your image attachment it looks like your'e doing that anyway though, though your media size numbers look way off. Make sure you've set your art board size to the same as your laser's max engraving area. And make sure your ULS software (under settings) has the correct size set as well.

Good luck, I hope it all works out for you. Let us know how you fair.

[rich shepard]

there is another thread about windows 8.1 scaling with Corel and same problem. They say it's a windows problem so good luck. I still use XP to run my lasers so can't help. Never could get windows 7 to work

[Mike Lassiter]

I have Windows 7 Pro 64bit and Corel X6 64 bit and had pretty good luck so far. Waited for 64 bit driver release which I guess came just in time. Hard drive failed on laptop I had been using so I didn't have much choice but to buy a new computer at the time.

[Frédéric PARROT]

Hello Matt,

... I have the Windows 8 ULS driver installed ...Where did you find this driver ? I only find a driver for Windows 7 and I have a Windows 8 computer now. I have a problem of scale in the preview and in the work.

[Frédéric PARROT]

I have news after spending long hours pulling my hair out .
The driver for Windows 7 work with Windows 8 , but ...

I found what is wrong and that changes size when the job is sent to the laser :
When I created a new settings file .las (where write the custom job settings ) from the new ULS interface, it works perfectly.
When I start working with my old file .las there is downsizing .

I edited the 2 files .las with Notepad++ (text editor).
The struture of the file .las changed between my old driver and the latest available driver .
In the new .las there is these new lines :
RotaryOverlap = 19200 (after VectorYScale )
MaterialOrigin = 0 (after MaterialCode )
UseZPos = 0 (after Supermode )
Texture = 0 (after new line UseZPos )

The line Enhanced=0 has changed places : after Supermode in the old file and after VectorYScale in the new file .las).

That's where I am. I don't want to change manualy my two hundred files of custom parameters ...
I don't know if I continue in this way or if I try to install VirtualBox to run my old operating systems and don't change my .las files.

EDIT : The line Enhanced line = 0 has changed places ==> The line Enhanced=0 has changed places

[Dan Hintz]

The line Enhanced line = 0 has changed places : after Supermode in the old file and after VectorYScale in the new file .las).

Sounds like the person writing the parser is doing a REALLY bad job if it can't accept out-of-order properties.

[Frédéric PARROT]

Well, I did full testing.

1) I added the missing lines at the end of my old file .las : Bad job with the laser.

2) I added the missing lines in the right places in my old file .las : Bad job with the laser too.

3) As the new file .las job well and not my old file .las, I looked at the values ​​that have changed :
Name of the line ........ Value of Old file ........ Value of New file
VectorPerformance .... 0 ........................... 1
PrintDir .................... 85 .......................... 68
ImageDensity .............52 .......................... 53
Density 0 1000
For these lines I don't use the same values when I create the new file .las and I don't touch them in my testing : PenPowers / PenSpeedsCips / PenRates
I changed all the values in the same time of VectorPerformance / PrintDir / ImageDensity / Density : Bad job with the laser.
4) I restore the old values and I try to modifie one by line in the time for the lines of VectorPerformance / PrintDir / ImageDensity / Density
a) VectorPerformance : Bad job with the laser.
b) PrintDir : Bad job with the laser.
c) ImageDensity : Bad job with the laser.
d) Density : GOOD job with the laser !
The old value was 52 and the new is 53
And the new lines listed in my message #13 are not required.

I try a job with many of my old .las files and when the Density > 52 it's work well. If the Density is < 53 it's wrong.
The solution is to change the ImageDensity value to a number > 52 ...