Went to my last "The Woodworking Show"......

[Bill Huber]

This was the third time I have gone to The Woodworking Show and this will be my last.

The noise is so loud you can't hear anything the speakers are saying so the seminars are a waste.

How many times do you need to see the guys from Carter set up a band saw and cut out reindeer.

Then there were a lot of the exhibitors setting there on their laptops reading their email so it was kind of hard to ask a question.

There were not that many exhibitors to start with, no Lee Valley, no Jessem, no DowelMax, no Rockler, no Incra, now there was Woodcraft, just a table with some catalogs on it and a few guys standing around.

Peachtree was there with all of their stuff and there is a lot of it but no one to really get any information from. I had a question and the lady said she didn't know and there was no one else there ask.

The only exhibitor that I thought was really on it was Woodline, when I walked in to their area there was a person right there with me and ask if they could help and if I had any question just let them know.

I guess maybe I am just expecting to much form the show, but anyway this was the last one.

[Cory Newman]

I agree. I was quite disappointed with the show.

[Dan Hintz]

It wasn't much better last year, so I've pretty much written it off...

[Frederick Skelly]

Yeah, thats how it was last time I went to one too. Its such a shame because they used to be good shows. I gave up about 4 years ago.
Fred

[Andrew Pitonyak]

A shame really.... I went to one here in Columbus this year. I suppose I don't know for sure that was the show. Lee Valley, wood pecker, and work sharp were there. I bought stuff from all of them. Perhaps it was a different wood working show, however.

[Bill Huber]

A shame really.... I went to one here in Columbus this year. I suppose I don't know for sure that was the show. Lee Valley, wood pecker, and work sharp were there. I bought stuff from all of them. Perhaps it was a different wood working show, however.

Lee Valley was listed as being there but I could not find them, there was some empty areas so maybe they were just late.

Woodpecker was there and they had the new MT gauge there and it really is nice, they had a very small area.

Worksharp was there but there was no one in the booth when I went by 2 different times.

[Doug Herzberg]

I was disappointed last time, too, about 2 years ago. Woodline was out of inventory and didn't know when it would arrive. Lee Valley waived shipping on everything, but there wasn't much I needed.

[C Scott McDonald]

I was disappointed last time, too, about 2 years ago. Woodline was out of inventory and didn't know when it would arrive. Lee Valley waived shipping on everything, but there wasn't much I needed.

Is woodline the router bits everybody stampedes in for when the show opens?

[Julie Moriarty]

How many times do you need to see the guys from Carter <snip> cut out reindeer. That tickled my funny bone!

I've read on more than one occasion that the cost of making it to these shows has caused many vendors to rely on the Internet to show their products.

I went to one in the mid-90s and it really opened my eyes. I brought my son and one of his friends and we all enjoyed ourselves. And I spent $300 on a CMT cabinet making router bit set. You could say that show catapulted me into woodworking rather than working with wood.

[Curt Harms]

I think they're worthwhile for someone just getting into woodworking. There used to be two shows in this area and I went to both and bought a fair amount of stuff. Watching a competent demo was helpful for understanding how machines worked, how to set them up etc. Of course, this was pre-internet & online videos. Today, except for demos and Q&A sessions with pros, I'm not sure how much need there is for the shows. Same thing has happened to PC shows/fairs. I'm sure it's not cheap for someone like Woodline or Lee Valley to move people and inventory a thousand miles or more unless they're pretty sure of thriving sales.

[Doug Herzberg]

Is woodline the router bits everybody stampedes in for when the show opens?

They have a line of router bits. I have used them and they're okay. Also some planes I haven't seen elsewhere ("Japanese" planes made in China). What I was looking for and they were out of were some wood turning tools, not top end, but decent for the price, like their router bits.

[Bill White]

Just my thoughts, but WWing shows have become that same as WWing magazines. Same things again and again.
Bill

[Erik Loza]

Bill, I remember when we used to sell half a dozen MM16's per show and often, a full combo machine or two and all the "major" machinery vendors were at every one of them. That was in the early 2000's. By 2007, we had abandoned the show circuit altogether. I sold more by answering emails than by flying to a local show. The internet changed everything about the tool buying process.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Mel Fulks]

I've heard the shows held where nude dancing is legal are still well attended. Could be coincidence.

[Dan Siedschlag]

Eric, I went to the Dallas show today. Even though I got there late in the day it still had a decent crowd. I have left several in the past and said I probably wouldn't go back but seem unable to resist when they show up. It may have something to do with the fact that they only show up once a year. The real reason for this reply to your post is that I am the other side of a companies' decision to no longer participate. I bought my original Robland X31 after seeing it and watching it being demonstrated at a show in California in 1988-89. I didn't buy it at the show but called Laguna later and made the purchase. Without the show exposure I wouldn't have bought the machine. I went to several shows here in the DFW area after 1991 in which Minimax had several machines displayed. It was the show that planted the seed to consider them for future buys. It was at one of the shows here in the DFW area that I sat down with you and talked the Minimax machines. After that show I ordered a MM16 from you. A year ago I bought a used CU-410 Elite which pretty much completed my transition away from the Robland to Minimax. Whether I would have bought any of the Minimax equipment if I hadn't had the exposure at the shows is unknown, but I do know that the show exposure was a big factor in making me receptive to doing further research on the Minimax equipment. Seeing, touching, watching the machines operate sold them. I understand manufacturers' decisions to not participate and the fiscal realities involved, but I believe that I am one of those buyers that never was counted as a "show purchase" but am in fact an owner of your equipment because of your show involvement in the past. The absence of manufacturers from these shows is sad...and missed.

[Perry Holbrook]

Dan's story relates to a problem those of us that have booths at trade shows struggle with. Shows are very expensive to produce. Management wants to know how many sells are generated from the show, in order to calculate an ROI. Because sales can occur much later that the show and thru many different channels, the ROI is almost impossible to figure, leaving it up to guess work whether the show makes economic sense. Perry

[glenn bradley]

IMHO, to some extent, this is the Wal-Mart effect. We all wanted lower prices and so now have a lot of poor quality offerings to choose from with the higher quality goods/providers increasing in price to compensate for lost sales. We all stop going to the shows so the vendors have less reason to show up, the show real estate becomes too costly for the exposure gained and the quality drops. The economy certainly contributes and the whole marketing/sales landscape has changed over the last decade.

The California shows have definitely shrunk, dropped dates and dropped venues but, except for the absence of Lei Nielsen and the combo machine vendors I have still found it worth a few bucks and the time spent. In any activity a person passes through interest spikes that fuel enthusiasm. Following that same path we all reach a point where we don't need one more "doo-dad" (or reindeer demo ;)) and we become more sophisticated about what we need to purchase, learn about, look at, and research in relation to our woodworking. I wish the vendors could afford to do the large traveling booths we enjoyed in the past but, the attendance, and therefor the exposure and resulting interest generated, keeps falling off; ergo "Wal-Mart" :D.

[Erik Loza]

Hi Dan, nice to hear from you. I agree with the fact that there is probably some business left on the table when a major tool vendor does not attend shows and as Perry points out, that is a very difficult figure to quantify. And therein lies the issue. Yes, it is true that the initial exposure might be at a trade show and that the resulting transaction might not occurr for months or even years (I still talk to folks today who say, "I remember you from such-and-such show, years ago") but I can tell you that in the minds of corporate folks, they are wanting to see fresh business directly tied into the show or event. Otherwise, budgeting decisions get made about whether to do such shows in the future and that's the situation we found ourselves.

To put it into perspective, even the smallest hobby show we were doing cost us $10,000 to attend. That was the cost of booth space, freight to get the machines there, and what it cost to fly one of us out there to do that show. In other words, we had to clear $10K in profit, not just in sales, just to break even on the smallest show.

Part of the issue was that, in my opinion, there were too many shows. There were three different hobby show companies (not sure how many now) at the time, all doing their own schedules and you would sometimes see 2-3 shows in the same geographic area per year. We, of course, always offered show deals but the issue we were running into was that rather than folks buying there at the show, we would hear, "Oh, I'll just wait until the next show maybe get a better deal", because they knew there was another show coming back in a month or two. But more significantly, the internet seemed to have changed the whole market. And I can say that because I have kept detailed analysis of where new business comes from since 2004. During 2004-2005, the preponderance of business for us was via show leads and magazine ads (which we did a the time). After 2006, that demographic switched. Like many things, there is no perfect way to do business, it's all shades of grey and it's dynamic. Anyway, just my insight and opinion.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Dan Siedschlag]

Erik, the fiscal and business realities are just that - reality. The bad part for the manufacturers participating in shows is that for the most part the equipment doesn't lend itself to impulse buying. Most people don't spend that kind of money impulsively. The best you could probably hope for was to plant seeds for future sales and sell to those that made the decision and waited for the show hoping for a "show special". While the internet age has given us an unbelievable availability of information, the websites/forums/google searches can't fully replace that touch/feel experience that seeing/watching the actual equipment provides. Videos/YouTube videos are helpful in bridging that gap, but I think the companies that figure out how to bring back the touch/feel experience in the internet age are going to have a leg up on those that don't.

I really appreciate your participation in these forums. You provide a manufacturer's point of view that is very helpful at times in understanding our equipment or the in some cases the limitations of our equipment. I'll give you a call soon. I have some questions for you regarding my machine.

Thanks, Dan

[Erik Loza]

Thanks, Dan. I will be nice to catch up!

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Dan Hintz]

To put it into perspective, even the smallest hobby show we were doing cost us $10,000 to attend. That was the cost of booth space, freight to get the machines there, and what it cost to fly one of us out there to do that show. In other words, we had to clear $10K in profit, not just in sales, just to break even on the smallest show.

I don't envy you the bean counter control... it's difficult (impossible?) to determine what caused a sale. But what about the person who wants to see it in person (I'm one of those types) before dropping the cash? Or the person who tells their friends/colleagues about the unit they just bought at the show, which leads to further sales that cannot be accounted directly to the show? Sometimes that $1 in advertising leads to $5 in sales... over time. Difficult to quantify? Sure. But if you're nothing but a website, you're no different than the myriad of other websites selling similar equipment. I suppose then it comes down to who gets critical mass first wins (and only keeps it with good QC and customer service).

[Ira Matheny]

I remember my first Woodworking Show in Sacramento in the mid or late 1990's. Thousands of people, Dozens and dozens of exhibitors. A veritable candy store for woodworkers!. I talked to many vendors, demonstrators, salesperson. I learned so much and saw so many new, great, fabulous, new items. I was Awe-Struck.

Each show since, [that I have attended] has been smaller and less informative.

And I started thinking about the 'Why's'.

I think it is a combination of two factors. First, as we all know, the economy has changed the buying habits of the country. But in a greater part, the internet has done so much to bring us instant information, making the 'Exhibit Hall' venue less important.

We can get any information we want by communicating on this and many similar forums. We have 'You-Tube' where we can see the newest, latest, and greatest tool in action doing all sorts of fantastic work. We can purchase from Vendors, Sellers, Manufacturers, and yes, even Amazon, and have the product shipped directly to our door all little or no shipping cost.

So in one way, I think the BIG Exposition or Show is kind of like a many other elements in our life that have morphed into something completely different.

May the Woodworking Shows prosper. I think I will go to the internet, instead.

Ira

[Don Morris]

I gave up about 3 years ago for about the same reasons.

[Jim Matthews]

I've heard the shows held where nude dancing is legal are still well attended. Could be coincidence.

I'm not sure I want to see the Carter guys nekkid.
To each their own, I suppose.

[Ellen Benkin]

I think deciding whether going to shows influences purchasing decisions is a matter of poor data collection. Someone who purchases a major woodworking machine is probably willing to tell you where he or she first saw the machine and what made them interested in purchasing it. If the answers are "The Woodworking Show" then you have evidence to support continued attendance even if the product was not sold at the show. I agree that I often get ideas about my next purchase by seeing the machines in action at a show. I also appreciate being able to talk to manufacturers' reps who actually know something about the product.

[Perry Holbrook]

I think deciding whether going to shows influences purchasing decisions is a matter of poor data collection. Someone who purchases a major woodworking machine is probably willing to tell you where he or she first saw the machine and what made them interested in purchasing it. If the answers are "The Woodworking Show" then you have evidence to support continued attendance even if the product was not sold at the show. I agree that I often get ideas about my next purchase by seeing the machines in action at a show. I also appreciate being able to talk to manufacturers' reps who actually know something about the product.

I know it sounds simple to collect this data, but believe me, it isn't. Major companies are all currently struggling with justifying shows. Some major brain power is being used to try to calculate ROI (return on investment) on shows of all types. Marketing is not an exact science/art. Putting a value on brand exposure at a show, has merit and in some cases it is enough to justify a show on it's own. But if management doesn't understand and/or buy in to the hard and soft numbers from the marketing guys, shows will get the ax.

Perry

[Mark Blatter]

I work on the other side of things....meaning a trade show company. We design, fabricate and provide set up and removal of exhibits at trade shows. I can tell you that the cost is very high. One of our customers, a major force in their industry, spent over $1,000,000 last year at one show. Of course their booth is huge, well over 7,000 square feet with large two-story structures.

I was told that many of the large machinery manufacturers no longer attends the woodworking shows because it is cheaper for them to fly interested parties to their show rooms where they will have plenty of time to meet with them, show the tools and do a full dog and pony show for them. The ROI is supposedly much higher this way.

[Perry Holbrook]

Yep, you guys would go crazy if you saw the charges for carpet rental, material handling, electric, union labor, etc. (charges that you are forced to pay with no competition). I know a company that was rumored to spend $50 Million on a show in Vegas last year, for one booth. Perry

[Bruce Wrenn]

Going to the show isn't a problem any more. It's 400 miles south, or 300 miles north to closest show. Atlanta show used to be held right across the interstate from airport. Show was directly across street from car rental place, so I could hop on their shuttle, and go to show. No more, show is somewhere near SC line now, even beyond Marta routes.

[Alan Lightstone]

Yeah, it's sad that each year the show gets thinner and thinner. I've still been going, but finding less and less to buy.

A couple of years ago there was a really enjoyable lecture by Tommy MacDonald. Learned how he got the job (and lots of life lessons for your kids with that story). Afterwards I got to shoot the breeze with him for a really long time, and he answered a bunch of unconventional questions of mine that I could never normally get answered about some ways to do esoteric tasks with woodworking. Really memorable moment.

Fine Woodworking Live was enjoyable last year, and I bought a ton from Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley, but I didn't go this year as it looked like same old, same old.

I feel the pain of the vendors. But I also know that I have bought machinery after seeing it at the shows. And there is almost nothing there anymore.

I also miss the Sommerfeld Tools demonstrations. Reminds me how to do tasks I infrequently do.

[Carl Knapp]

Hi Guys
For anyone that has been wanting to put your hands on the new Hammer N4400, A3-31 12" jointer/planer with the new Silent power head or the K3W Winner with the 48" sliding table. Felder has committed to the Costa Mesa show in So Cal, the Sacramento up north, Denver and then Portland. I hope to see some of you guys at the show.


Carl Knapp