workbench wood selection

[Paul Coffin]

Hi ,
I have settled on the type of bench that I want to build, a split top Roubo. My initial plan was to build it out of hard maple. Benchcrafted suggests using soft maple. My lumber sources have hard and soft maple at approximately the same price and also have steamed Euro Beech at a $1.00 less per board foot than either hard or soft maple. I have ruled out Fir, SYP, Oak and Ash for various reasons. So, any advice on whether to use hard maple, soft maple or beech? Your thoughts are appreciated! Thanks
-Paul

[James Tibbetts]

Paul I have just been through this mental juggling act myself. In my opinion there is no functional difference between hard and soft maple; hard maple being a common term used to denote sugar maple. The other varieties are soft maples. In my area soft maple is a bit more available and slightly less expensive. Beech would also be an excellant choice. What we are really looking for in a bench is hard and heavy. Maple or beech qualify. Both will plane well in flattening the top.
I went with hard maple only because I got it green and rough at the sawmill, and that is what they we about to start cutting when I asked about lumber. Otherwise I would have used any soft maple they had available. For a buck a foot less I would also have no problem using beech.

[Richard Coers]

Depends on how you treat the bench. Hard maple will take abuse, soft maple and beech not so much. If you protect the top when you are chopping mortises, or other mallet work, any of them will last forever. Don't protect it, and the softer hardwoods will be dented. If you use a traditional bench hold down, the hard maple would last much better around the hole. Beech moves more than the maples with seasonal expansion and contraction, so it may have a tendency to cup. Quartersawn will limit that.

[Andrew Hughes]

I think you will get better work surface from hard maple,Do try and lay the griain direction for hand planing the top flat.Esp if you choose hard maple,I agree with Richard beech moves a lot .That would be my last choice,But then you never know until you go the lumber yard and look at the stock,pick what looks best,if the maple lot has a lot of twisted boards don't settle move to some thing else.Good luck The roubo design is nice.

[Paul Coffin]

Several people have mentioned that hard maple can be difficult to plane flat, has anyone with a hard maple bench experienced that problem? Most of the people who have mentioned this issue built their bench out of something else to avoid the issue. I would probably attempt to flatten the two 12 in wide slabs of the split top with my helical head 15 in wide planer so it might not be an issue for me.

[Andrew Hughes]

Maybe they didn't run the grain out for hand planing in the future?I use a lie nielson fore plane to flatin my top once a year in between summer and winter.Just did it couple weeks ago.Hardmaple top.Little bit of a work out,But not too bad.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Paul
I built my bench top out of German Beech. At the time they were trying to break into west coast Alder market for kitchen cabinet wood supply, it was way less the Alder at the time. Bench is 6 years old now and still looks good. Last time I checked bench top for flatness it had move less the .008, still flat enough for my work. It is almost as hard as Hard Maple. Crosscut Hardwoods on Front Street in Portland still carries it. Tom

[Jim Matthews]

You're going to have your hands on this stuff for years.

Get one board of each, cut it into three parts
and relaminate it into a near square.

You can then finish a small section and feel the surface.

The Sjobergs benches (http://www.diefenbacher.com/Workbenches.htm) have beech tops, and seem stable.
I understand the appeal of having a massive slab top for stability,
but the base beneath is integrated, and loading that provides sufficient weight.

If your bench is like mine, it's going to be pretty for a very brief time.

Ugly benches get used as tools.

Pretty benches get dusted off for photo ops.

[Charles Wiggins]

Here's what the Schwarz says about wood selection: http://books.google.com/books?id=-yvwC8gUMdcC&lpg=PA254&dq=bench%20%22wood%20selection%22%20schwarz&pg=PA25#v=onepage&q=bench%20%22wood%20selection%22%20schwarz&f=false

Given all the considerations, between the two, I'd go with soft maple.

[Prashun Patel]

I am sure at the margins, there may be a functional difference, but for me (an eager hobbyist) there is no functional difference between soft and hard maple. I think people just recommend soft over hard based on price. Soft can sometimes have unsightly discoloration, which wouldn't make an aesthetic difference in a laminated workbench.

If there's no price difference, just use the hard. There's little downside to it. +1 on watching grain direction, though. Whether you power plane or hand plane it, you'll be glad that you aligned it all in the same direction.

[Chris Fournier]

I don't understand how anyone can claim that there is no functional difference between hard and soft maple! Do you like a heavy bench? Of course you do, it helps your bench function better by remaining immobile while you exert work forces. Hard maple is significantly denser than soft maple so the same volume of hard maple will be heavier. You want your bench to withstand errant blows from work and tools, again density comes into play, hard maple is denser and will withstand marking much better than soft maple.

If you can machine soft maple, you can machine hard maple.

More important in my opinion would be the quality of the lumber, drying process, grain orientation and location from the log that the lumber was taken from.

Euro beech is also a great choice and falls just below hard maple in density.

[John TenEyck]

IMHO it makes no difference. They all are more than hard enough and heavy enough for a workbench. If mass is a big concern and you choose soft maple, just make it a little thicker and you'll have the same mass as one made of hard maple. Seasonal movement is a concern with beech, but only in the tangential direction; it's not much higher than either maple in the radial (QS) direction. The Germans have been using beech for benches for a very, very long time. Dents? Who cares, it's a workbench. A few dents, gauges, and stains prove you actually use the thing.

FWIW, my bench (Frank Klausz design) is a mixture of hard maple, cherry, some Asian wood that's dense as heck, even a couple of pieces of oak. Still looks good (to me) after 20 years. More importantly, it works fine.

John

[Prashun Patel]

You are surely more experienced than I, but I have built 2 'good' benches. One out of soft maple, one out of ash. I far prefer the ash bench (similar in hardness to hard maple) not because it's 'harder' or resists marking; I personally don't notice ANY difference when planing or chopping on either. My ash bench has very stout legs and better vises. Those are the things that (to me) matter and make a difference in usability.

I respect your experience, and perhaps I should rephrase, but I stand 100% behind my statement that FOR ME, there is no functional difference between hard and soft maple on a workbench top. Plenty of people have even softer SYP or DFir benches that seem to work very well.

[Matt Radtke]

I think people over-worry about workbench hardness. About the only stuff too soft is cedar and the like. I'd be willing even tolerate white pine, assuming I could get a solid slab of the stuff 4" thick.

Good Wood For Workbenchs: 1) Stiff (not hard, STIFF) 2) Readily Available 3) Cheap. Beech was used across the pond because it was 1, 2, 3. SYP, Fir, and random construction lumber is used for the same reasons.

Okay, you want a maple bench? Find a reason to pick one or the other besides "hardness." Can you get bigger or thicker stuff that'll save you some glue ups for the top? Pick that one. The same? Get the one that's cheaper or dryer or whatever.

[Adam Diethrich]

To add...

The maple bench tops that folks like Woodcraft, Rockler, Granger etc. offer make excellent workbench tops. Naturally, that's what they are after-all. Then simply add legs/structure to suit.

A.W.D.


I think people over-worry about workbench hardness. About the only stuff too soft is cedar and the like. I'd be willing even tolerate white pine, assuming I could get a solid slab of the stuff 4" thick.

Good Wood For Workbenchs: 1) Stiff (not hard, STIFF) 2) Readily Available 3) Cheap. Beech was used across the pond because it was 1, 2, 3. SYP, Fir, and random construction lumber is used for the same reasons.

Okay, you want a maple bench? Find a reason to pick one or the other besides "hardness." Can you get bigger or thicker stuff that'll save you some glue ups for the top? Pick that one. The same? Get the one that's cheaper or dryer or whatever.

[Frank Drew]

I used hard maple when I made my Frid/Klausz style workbench because I was able to find some at a nice price while I was doing some work up in Vermont, just before I opened my own shop. I made it in 1982 and it has never needed re-flattening. I think the maple got heavier over the years because it was much harder to move around a couple of years ago than it was back when I made it! (I've noticed that cast iron machinery exhibits the same tendency.)

[Paul Coffin]

Thanks for all of the comments. Tomorrow I am going to look at what is available at my lumber suppliers for hard and soft maple plus the Euro Beech. I am leaning towards the soft maple of the beech.

[Roy Harding]

... I think the maple got heavier over the years because it was much harder to move around a couple of years ago than it was back when I made it! (I've noticed that cast iron machinery exhibits the same tendency.)

That's just the cumulative effect of gravity. I've noticed it myself.

[Mel Fulks]

For years in my employments every time a job came in calling for hard maple ,employers just used the whitest soft maple we had and sometimes added the comment that "there's not much difference" or "that just means it's got to be white".Since we live in the alternate universe it is fitting that the bench we use to work pine ,poplar,...and soft maple,be made of hard maple. Well, I'm off to make styrofoam Christmas ornaments on my Brazilian rosewood jewel encrusted bench.

[Ian Wormsbecker]

I made my top out of hard maple (mostly) and the legs out of soft maple.

To me, the weight is the big issue. I wanted a bench heavy enough that I can plane with a scrub plane and not have the bench moving. I didn't feel the soft maple would be heavy enough so I built 75% of the top with hard maple and the back of the top with soft maple. The hard maple boards were at least 50% heavier. I wish I had made it all with the hard maple. I speculate the bench is around 250 pounds. I wish it was closer to 350.

I personally would not consider soft maple for the top. I would go with the hard maple or the European Steamed Beech. Largely due to the weight first and the hardness second. This is something you are building once and will have forever. I don't want to build a bench again in 5 years :)

I would be interested to see pictures of people's soft wood benches versus hard wood benches after 3 or 4 years of use.

Again, IMO, there is a reason that companies like Lie Nielsen use hard maple for their tops.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/workbench


Ian

[Pat Barry]

Hi ,
I have settled on the type of bench that I want to build, a split top Roubo. My initial plan was to build it out of hard maple. Benchcrafted suggests using soft maple. My lumber sources have hard and soft maple at approximately the same price and also have steamed Euro Beech at a $1.00 less per board foot than either hard or soft maple. I have ruled out Fir, SYP, Oak and Ash for various reasons. So, any advice on whether to use hard maple, soft maple or beech? Your thoughts are appreciated! Thanks
-Paul
My advice is based on my experinece working with these materials and for me, I'm no masochist, I hate the hard maple. It taxes my shrapening skills and patience far more than other materials. Maybe there is something more to this, but for me the hard maple aspect really frustrates me when planing. Ya sure, i should study up on sharpening, but if I had to make a bench top out of hard maple, I just might not do it, at least not without resorting to the overhead router flattening method. Even then the burning of the wood would result in lots more work to clean up. I'd stick with soft maple. I'd be curious to hear how the hard maple behaved for you if that's what you end up choosing.

[John Lanciani]

Type of Maple



Average Density


(in pounds per cubic foot)


Typical Weight Range


(10% coefficient of variation)



Hard Maple

44 pcf

39.6 to 48.4 pcf



Black Maple

40 pcf

36 to 44 pcf



Bigleaf Maple

34 pcf

30.6 to 37.4 pcf



Box Elder

32 pcf

28.8 to 35.2 pcf



Red Maple

38 pcf

34.2 to 41.8 pcf



Silver Maple

33 pcf

29.7 to 36.3 pcf



Striped Maple

32 pcf

28.8 to 35.2 pcf





http://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/maple-hardness.png

Charts taken from wood-database.com. Lots of misinformation in this thread, but there is no comparison between hard maple and all the other species. Hard maple averages 25% heavier and almost 100% higher Janka reading than the other maples. I personally would not make the materials decision on a lifetime bench based on price, especially if the difference was $1 per bf.

[Ian Wormsbecker]

Type of Maple

Average Density


(in pounds per cubic foot)

Typical Weight Range


(10% coefficient of variation)



Hard Maple
44 pcf
39.6 to 48.4 pcf


Black Maple
40 pcf
36 to 44 pcf


Bigleaf Maple
34 pcf
30.6 to 37.4 pcf


Box Elder
32 pcf
28.8 to 35.2 pcf


Red Maple
38 pcf
34.2 to 41.8 pcf


Silver Maple
33 pcf
29.7 to 36.3 pcf


Striped Maple
32 pcf
28.8 to 35.2 pcf




http://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/maple-hardness.png

Charts taken from wood-database.com. Lots of misinformation in this thread, but there is no comparison between hard maple and all the other species. Hard maple averages 25% heavier and almost 100% higher Janka reading than the other maples. I personally would not make the materials decision on a lifetime bench based on price, especially if the difference was $1 per bf.


Great information. I stand corrected on the weight. 25% heavier rather than 50%. Given hard and soft maple are, according to the original poster, the same price, the hard maple is a no-brainer. It SAVES money!!

Use the hard-maple. Or use the Euro steemed beech as it is even cheeper still. Skip the soft-maple.

I had no issue planing my bench flat when I built mine and I was pretty early on in my woodworking life. It was my 2nd or 3rd major project. Granted, I had everything pretty close as it was so I only needed minor tweaking.


Ian

[Erik Christensen]

made my bench top out of hard maple - flattened the bottom with hand planes and top with a router sled that I cleaned up with a belt sander - both worked quite well and the bench top is exactly what I was looking to build. there was not much difference in price so I went with hard maple and if I was do it over I would make the same decision