BU smoothing planes

[Daniel Rode]

My plan is to transition from machine based woodworking to a combination of hand and machine work. For example, I will continue to use my table saw, jointer and planer to prepare my stock, but I'll finish dimensioning with a smoothing plane. I've been surprised by how much more accurate I can be using a hand plane.

I bought a WoodRiver #4 a couple months ago and it's been fantastic. As long as I'm planing with the grain, I get an excellent surface. If the iron is very sharp, I can deal with somewhat undulating or reversing grain and still get a very good surface. But larger reverses and figured wood are an issue.

I understand that a bevel up smoothing plane may be a good solution for working with figured wood and tougher to plane grain. I don't really know anything about BU planes.

If they are a good solution, what would be a useful size/type BU plane would be useful for surface finishing and fine dimensioning? Does anyone regularly use one for this purpose? Is there a better tool or technique I should be considering?

Thanks in advance.

[Chris Griggs]

What species of wood is giving you problems?

Also, what do you mean by fine dimensioning? Are we talking about trimming joints that are a bit proud or flattening boards.

My answers depends on your answers....:)

[David Weaver]

If machines are doing most of the work for you and you're just finalizing the surface, you pretty much have what you need. If you can't master the grain with the WR plane, then a bevel up plane is probably the easiest way to do it, BUT, your woodriver plane will handle anything as long as the cap iron can be set close to the edge.

If you want to start doing things like match planing long edges, you'll probably want to add a jointer at some point.

And if you want to start taking some of the twist out of boards with a plane before you bring them to a power jointer, or doing the jointing of a wide board that won't fit on your jointer, you'll probably want a jack plane, too.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on what David said.

Most of my work is in soft woods (various firs) that can have some really squirrelly grain. Most of the time a very sharp blade and a close set chip breaker takes care of the surface.

Even with some of the ash I have been working recently if there is an area of gnarly grain, a sharp blade against the major grain direction taking an extremely light cut will smooth the rough area without tear out running against the grain.

In real difficult cases this is where having smaller smoothers helps.

Then there is scrapers and sandpaper.

jtk

[bob blakeborough]

The Veritas BU Smoother is my absolute favourite plane out of everything I have, period! Throw a 50 degree microbevel and it handles even the craziest grained wood with ease!

That said, you of course don't *need* a bevel up plane to get the job done. Guys have been using the same tools you have for years before we ever came along, but I do believe that the BU plane is probably one of the simplest ways with the least amount of learning curve to get tough grains dealt with...

[Daniel Rode]

What species of wood is giving you problems?

Also, what do you mean by fine dimensioning? Are we talking about trimming joints that are a bit proud or flattening boards.

My answers depends on your answers....:)

Chris, fine dimensioning, for me, means small (fine) adjustments of maybe a a couple thou up to 1/64. It's several actions from doing the final squaring and sizing of stock to fitting a drawer or bringing a proud style even with it's rail. There may be a bit of flattening, but normally, I'd start with a flat board. Does that make more sense?

[Daniel Rode]

For my purposes here, I'm only thinking about smoothing and very small adjustments. I can see value in a jack plane and a jointer as well but that's another story :)

The thing is that I am getting good results thus far. I'm just not so sure I'd get good results in tiger maple or sapele mahogany, for example.

[Chris Griggs]

Well personally, as far as size goes, I like No. 4 sized planes for smoothing and a lot of other stuff so I'd get the LV LA smoother with the 2" blade (over the BU smoother with the 2 1/4") or the LN equivalent if I were getting a BU smooth plane. But that's just me. A jack sized plane will let you do more in terms of straightening and such, but it sounds like you want a smoother.

BU planes are indeed very nice to use and easy to setup with a high angle to plane anything, but I prefer to use a BD plane with a closely set chipbreaker. The advantage there is a) you already have that and b) there is no loss in surface quality for woods that don't look as good when planed at a high angle (which is most common moderate North American hardwoods).

Of course, I've never been one to talk someone out of a new tool. The BU planes are nice to use, but I like the feel of BD planes better and like that the chipbreaker prevents tearout in all the woods I work without me having to change blades or plane at a high angle.

If you set the chipbreaker properly (which is easy to learn to do) you will have no issues planing tiger maple in any direction. I don't have any sapelle or mahogany in my shop at the moment (and the one time I did was before I new how to set a chipbreaker properly) so I can't answer that, but I don't imagine it would an issue.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Chris! The consensus seems to be that setting the chip breaker properly will do what I need. I have it close, maybe 1/32" right now, but I'll dial that in better and see how I fare.

I have so much to learn and practice (and buy), that it's a really relief to think I can probably just keep going with my #4.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Chris! The consensus seems to be that setting the chip breaker properly will do what I need. I have it close, maybe 1/32" right now, but I'll dial that in better and see how I fare.

I have so much to learn and practice (and buy), that it's a really relief to think I can probably just keep going with my #4.

Yeah, 32nd is too far. If you haven't already, read Dave's article (google "Setting a Cap Iron). The way I do it is to look at the reflection of light off the back of the blade. I move the cap iron up until almost no light is reflecting, and then just back it up a little. There should be a clearly visible but very narrow line of light. It sounds esoteric but its not. You very quickly come so see how wide that line of light should look. The other thing some people do is to slightly push the edge of the blade into some soft pine, and then just bring the CB up until it hits the wood.

Dave's article and the study it reference give you some distances, but in real work you are not measuring those. Again, you will very quickly learn by eye and feel what works. That said, I've have done some very lame inaccurate attempts at eyeball measuring the setback I have found I like against a small ruler. My typical setting appears to come in somewhere around one half of 1/64th or less (about .008 thou) [again completely inaccurate eye-balled measurement here...point is 32nd is way to far for smoother]. Doesn't matter though, don't be too scientific about it, don't try to measure it. Just play with it a bit and you'll likely figure out what works pretty quickly.

[Judson Green]

Yeah, 32nd is too far. If you haven't already, read Dave's article (google "Setting a Cap Iron). The way I do it is to look at the reflection of light off the back of the blade. I move the cap iron up until almost no light is reflecting, and then just back it up a little. There should be a clearly visible but very narrow line of light. It sounds esoteric but its not. You very quickly come so see how wide that line of light should look.

I just discovered this reflection trick about 3 days ago.

Also I've been polishing the leading edge of the cap iron not sure if it helps much, I feel it couldn't hurt. One time affair. Easy.

[Chris Griggs]

Also I've been polishing the leading edge of the cap iron not sure if it helps much, I feel it couldn't hurt. One time affair. Easy.

I do that on all my planes too. I think it helps. If nothing else, it seem to help the shavings eject better.

[Winton Applegate]

Come and get it !

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=51870&cat=1,41182,52515

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/OhYah.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/OhYah.jpg.html)
You know this is what you really want.
Just let go.
Listen to that little devil on your shoulder.
Live a little.
Press that buy button.
Ooooooo . . . SO Good !


You could be in your shop in just a couple of days . . . driving this bad boy . . . I mean it just doesn't get any better than this.


Throat adjustment from big O' for that deep cut to fine and dandy for that final few whispers. Just a tweak of the knob. Even has a stop to keep from hitting the blade !
Back and forth . . . wide open, fine, wide open, fine . . . easy as a breeze . . .


Superior blade depth and angle control compared to those other planes . . . makes the LN jack adjuster look like a stone wheel.


I tell you what !


Just press that buy button !


You know you want it !

:)

PS: Not a single regret here.

[Winton Applegate]

I mean look at this !

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Sothinandgossimer_zps0bad077a.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Sothinandgossimer_zps0bad077a.jpg.html)

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/BytheTub.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/BytheTub.jpg.html)


That's some of the worlds hardest wood. Bubbinga for kripe sakes.

And practically effortless !
:D

I had to MAKE my self stop. I was having such a good time !
:D

No kidding though straight from plane to finish . . . no scraping . . . no sand paper.

[Jim Stewart]

The LV bevel up smoother is the best and it is so simple to set. Get the PMV steel blade if you can. I bought the new steel blade in a 27 degree and redid the angle to 50 degrees. Just amazing results. I have other smoothing planes but the bevel-up smoother is the best.

Jim

[Chris Griggs]

Come and get it !
Listen to that little devil on your shoulder.
Live a little.
Press that buy button.
Ooooooo . . . SO Good !



Or listen to the other little devil on your shoulder (who also happens to love LV tools). Use the smoother you have to its full capabilities, and take the money you save and buy one of these...

273648


Arguably, one of the best tools LV has ever made.

You'll gain far more by adding of these to your arsenal as opposed to a 2nd smoother, you still get a new toy to play with, and you still get to send Rob wad of cash!

Its Win, Win!

[David Weaver]

Or listen to the other little devil on your shoulder (who also happens to love LV tools). Use the smoother you have to its full capabilities, and take the money you save and buy one of these...

273648


Arguably, one of the best tools LV has ever made.

You'll gain far more by adding of these to your arsenal as opposed to a 2nd smoother, you still get a new toy to play with, and you still get to send Rob wad of cash!

Its Win, Win!

That's the route I would go. The small plow and the skew rabbet planes are super fantastic.

[Daniel Rode]

I don't enjoy cutting drawer grooves on the router table. In fact, I don't enjoy using a power router at all.

This and the LV router plane are on my Christmas list.


That's the route I would go. The small plow and the skew rabbet planes are super fantastic.

[Daniel Rode]

Just press that buy button !
You know you want it !

LOL - I do want it but I need someone else to pay for it :)

[Winton Applegate]

LV plow
Ohhhh . . . I was doing GREAT untill you showed that to me. Now I "need" one of those.

You are going to love the router plane ! That is my only large router plane but I found no problems with it. I bought extra blades and ground them even narower. I may be wrong but I think they now have a wider selection of blades than when I got mine.

Here's to using things to their full potential. I keep waiting for that to happen to me.

[Jim R Edwards]

+1 on what Jim said. I have the LV bevel up smoother with the new steel and it works perfectly.

[Mike Holbrook]

Daniel here is the thing someone needs to tell you. You are on a slippery slope and it is hard to turn back. I think you need to think in terms of a planing system. Eventually you will find other things you enjoy doing with hand planes. Planes are amazingly versatile beasties, no one can stop at one or two or... Some people like the "old school" thin plane iron with a chip breaker solution to planing. Other people like the bevel up plane solution.

The advantage to the bevel up planes as a system are nice for a guy new to planing. Lee Valley makes a whole series of bevel up planes. A very nice thing about these planes is the BU jack plane and the larger smoother both use the same blades. If you buy two or three blades with different bevels you end up with blades that can be easily switched between the planes, providing you a very versatile two plane system. Later on when you figure out you need a jointer plane too you can, you guessed it, buy a Lee Valley jointer plane that can use the same blades. You might not share all your blades between planes but if you need to deal with difficult grains or just very hard wood it is nice to have those options. Two to four of Lee Valleys bevel up planes make a very versatile system. I think a person who wants to use some power tools may find the versatility of the Lee Valley bevel up system the most bang for the least number of hand planes with the shortest learning curve.

The bevel down planes have blades fixed at a given angle that can not change. Changing the angle on the plane blade in a bevel down plane does not do what it does on a bevel up plane. Those who prefer the bevel down solution feel they can solve most problems with their chip breaker. The issue with this system in my book is you have to work with some tight tolerances and small adjustments. A newer person might find it easier to just swap out blades. The bevel down planes are typically lighter and have a higher center of gravity than the bevel up planes too. Here again you have to make a choice. When I have tough wood or grains to deal with, I find the heavier BU planes with their much thicker plane blades make the work easier. If I want a light, fast plane I switch to wood planes but that is another story....

[Jim Koepke]

Daniel,

If you have a chance to visit a tool show it would be a good chance to test drive many of the alternatives.

There is a lot to be said for a tool "just feeling right" in your hands.

All but a few of my planes are older than me. Of my younger planes, only 4 were purchased new.

For me, there is much joy derived from fettling old iron and then getting it to perform. It is hard to describe the feeling of taking an old hunk of discarded junk that has sat around unused for years and getting it to take fine shavings once again. This has worked well for many folks, but if one doesn't like the smell of rust or the mess, then there is nothing wrong with purchasing new. The other part of buying old is learning which ones to avoid. Some people will try to disguise damage. One also needs to learn both makers and years made to be avoided. My preference for Stanley planes is for those made before the mid 1930s. This is for my own reasons. My advice is to avoid Stanley planes made after the 1940s unless you have a chance to use it.

Each choice has its advantages. For me, a full complement of planes to use didn't set me back a years pay. They might not be the most advanced shiny things on the shelf, but that doesn't mater to me.

Many make the choice to only have the tools they absolutely need. The minimalist camp is not my camp. Like so many things in life, personal choices do not need the approval of others.

No matter what path one chooses, there is always a bridge to a different path if one wants to change course.

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

For me, there is much joy derived from fettling old iron and then getting it to perform.
jtk

What a great point.

Last night I took a file to a misaligned cheap block plane. I'm not much of a 'fettler' but I preferred trying to file the bed over tossing it in the trash. I got it close enough that I can get a an even cut across the blade now and it's finally a usable tool.

I'll agree that there was a sense of accomplishment in completing the task successfully and a bit of relief that the little block plane (my only block plane) does not need to be replaced. However, given a choice, I would rather have spent the time working wood. I'm willing to tune up tools but I do it because I have to, not because I enjoy it. I don't necessarily dislike doing it, it's just that find my joy in working wood far more than the tools.

[Jim Neeley]

Some people place a small (10* or so) back-bevel on a spare BD plane blade to give an effective planing angle of 45* + [back bevel *]. With a 10* you get 55*, 20* would give you a very steep 65*.

I don't do it, but offering another alternative.

Jim