Widows print driver & control system for chinese machines.

[Dan Hammerstron]

Hi, are there any Machines out there that have converted to the Testra system.? This is the email I received from them. Our controls will work great with the Chinese Laser system. You may even use the
Universal printer driver if you want, as it is fully compatible.

The cost for a conversion kit is $1995. This includes unlimited consulting over the Internet
using remote desktop to assist you in getting everything running.

One thing that I would need to know is what motors are being used on your system. Some of the Chinese systems use 3 phase motors. Our controller will not run these motors directly, only 2 phase motors. If they are 3-phase we can either use the existing stepper drivers in your machine which will not perform as well (about like they do now) or the motors can be changed for a slight additional cost.

There are a lot of variations in the Chinese machines. You might send me a bunch of photos of the machine so I would have a better idea. If you can get a picture of the motors and the label on them I may be able figure it out right away.

Testra built the controls for ULS for many years and have thousands of them in the field. We have many systems installed as conversions, upgrades or OEM Laser System. I have attached a
flyer on the ssLASER-KIT. If your machine has the Leetro controller, we also have a smaller panel which is a direct mechanical replacement.

I am looking forward to working with you on this.

Have a Great Day!

[Dave Sheldrake]

Our controls will work great with the Chinese Laser system.

Subjective, nobody trying to sell you anything is going to tell you it's rubbish.


You may even use the
Universal printer driver if you want, as it is fully compatible.

It may well be, nothing to suggest one way or the other without end user experiences.


The cost for a conversion kit is $1995.

Open and up front about the price, I always like that.


This includes unlimited consulting over the Internet
using remote desktop to assist you in getting everything running.

"Unlimited" usually comes with limits of some kind.


There are a lot of variations in the Chinese machines. You might send me a bunch of photos of the machine so I would have a better idea. If you can get a picture of the motors and the label on them I may be able figure it out right away.

Or they may have no idea WTH your machine is or what motors it uses. Who knows.


Testra built the controls for ULS for many years and have thousands of them in the field.

"Built" past tense? do they still manufacture for ULS or have ULS moved on? if they have moved on...why?


We have many systems installed as conversions, upgrades or OEM Laser System.

Ever see the old film "Police Academy" ...."many many many wonderful people who do many many many great and wonderful things" (Comandant Eric Lassard)


I am looking forward to working with you on this.

I'm sure they are, they get paid to.


Have a Great Day!

Actually I probably won't as I have to take half a day off to go get my Business Card unlocked as I typed my pin number in wrong 3 times but thanks for the thought anyways :)

In all seriousness Dan I would probably ask a LOT of questions and want to see some data before handing over $2,000 ish for a system that *appears* to be unknown on most of the mainstream forums (not posted about much anyway). For you personally I would be looking to see what real benefits I'm going to get fitting a system that may well be the best of controls to a machine that will likely not match the quality of the unit running it.
I've seen a few reverse engineered solutions to making Chinese lasers equal to western lasers and as yet not one of them has been any good. That may change in the near future...who knows.

cheers

Dave

[Dan Hammerstron]

I am pretty sure this" http://2laser.com/upgrades_parts_consumables " company is using the Testra laser system on there high end machines, I have had many emails swapped with a person at this company and they provided lots of useful information. One of the comments was, we can bring the chinese unit up to comparable standard to the US machines as to speed and ease of use with a much lower price point and higher power. there upgrade cost was 6K plus at that time.

[Dan Hammerstron]

I found some more info on the Testra system. http://www.powerpr.com/articles/articles.asp?include=134736

[Dan Hammerstron]

This company is using Testra laser system. http://emissiontechnologies.com/

[Rodne Gold]

As the chinese develop more potent controllers , and they do this continually , its pretty easy to retrofit one.
$2k is a lot of money - it remains to be seen what improvements you get for that....
My low level staff can operate my chinese machines that use RDcam (laserworks) as a driver so it's not that difficult to work with what you got
What I WOULD like and pay good money for is a WYSIWYG driver that works straight off Corel.

[Dan Hintz]

Our controller will not run these motors directly, only 2 phase motors.

You missed this one, Dave... 2-phase motors. Cool. So they're using early 1900's-level technology. How retro!

[Dave Sheldrake]

Oh dear :) I love reliving my younger years but don't think I really want to be doing it with the stuff that pays me.


I am pretty sure this" http://2laser.com/upgrades_parts_consumables " company is using the Testra laser system on there high end machines


This company is using Testra laser system. http://emissiontechnologies.com/

Sadly that's not evidence of the unit being any good, it's selective observation about a companies own product. Unbiased external evidence from third parties is the info you want.


we can bring the chinese unit up to comparable standard to the US machines as to speed and ease of use with a much lower price point and higher power.

"Comparable" is always a word I dislike when used in advertising, given time and a bit of work I could fit a 600 watt Fiber source to a Chinese K40, that could be advertised as "comparable" to my Vytek 600 watt fiber but in reality it would just be a K40 with a 600 watt fiber source.
My HX (HPC) 1290 is fitted with a 180watt peak EFR tube, it's a fantasttic tube with an amazing beam profile, the power stability is beyond any of the cheap tubes and a lot better than any RECI tube I've ever used. At that sort of power if I so desired I could be making wedding greetings / favors at speeds near the maximum "advertised" limits of 1,000mm per second linear speed BUT there's a problem, at anything over 175mm per second linear speed the gantry unit, laser head, motors and positional control goes all out of wack and I get corner "wobbles" (a product of simple Physics, lots of weight moving very quickly takes lots of power to change the direction). On paper it will out perform any of the more expensive mid levels of the Epilog,ULS,Trotech machines on cutting ability but due to the rest of the package still being a Cheaper Chinese machine I will loose out at any kind of speed as well as reliability of parts such as Lens's and mirrors.

In essence bolting a Ferrari V8 engine from an F355GTS into my Honda Civic won't make my Honda a Ferrari :)

On upgrades like the testra you need to look at the whole package, does everything else match the Testra units quality? if not then the machines limitations will be the quality / ability of it's weakest link.

I'd be looking for people that own them, that know a bit about lasers, have something to compare it to and a known history of providing accurate information, opinions are great but data is essential. A good example is Dan's post above, Dan isn't getting paid and there is no gain for him one way or the other if you buy / don't buy the unit and he has a history of knowing what he's on about so I'd probably use that one simple post to go to Testra and ask about why they are using 2 - phase motors.

Don't get me wrong, it may well be a brilliant piece of kit but I'd prefer to hear that from somebody who has nothing to gain/loose from you buying one.

cheers

Dave

[Ross Moshinsky]

I still don't understand why no one has developed a WYSIWYG print driver for Chinese lasers.

http://www.hurricanelasers.com/engravelab2013 - Seems like this is the closest thing to that but the issue is you have to work within a proprietary software package.

[Kay Bengtson]

I bought one of their units to keep my ULS 25ER laser running after it's controller failed and I could not get a repair that was guaranteed to work. They billed it as being able to be installed in 30 minutes but in fact, the unit came with no manual, no instructions at all. It took most of a day to install and was not a plug in drop in replacement. Holes had to be drilled in the cabinet to route new cables and the cover for the old controller did not fit anymore with the mass of connectors. I was able to suss out the connections by comparing wiring diagrams. I called the manufacturer and the fellow admitted there was no manual for the unit but one would be written soon. BTW, as far as I know, in two years, it has not. Then the real kicker hit, the panel controls were different from the original. Some don't work at all, having no assignments and other work differently. I called about this too and the fellow admitted that the programmer must have left some things out and not tested it. I was assured that a new firmware update was going to be emailed in the next month but it never came. I emailed repeatedly and got no response. I called one more time when my laser needed recharge for tech help to diagnose the problem but the only thing they said was to have it recharged. After that, they would not respond. Another thing they claim but isn't the case is the double speed of the original. It is true in a literal sense, 4% is the old 8% but what they don't tell you is that if you go to speeds above 4%, circles and curves get distorted. I called about this too and was told that I had to buy their software driver to correct that problem. It was something like $400. So I only cut at 4% max. However, it does cut circles and curves faster than the old unit did so I did get some productivity improvements.

I found workarounds for the problems and have managed to make my laser do what I need it to but as far as recommending them, I can't.

Kay

[Dan Hintz]

However, it does cut circles and curves faster than the old unit did so I did get some productivity improvements.

Of course, the ULS 25ER is a nearly 20 year old system, so I'd be curious to see what the actual speed "improvement" is compared to a recent system.

[Kay Bengtson]

Of course, the ULS 25ER is a nearly 20 year old system, so I'd be curious to see what the actual speed "improvement" is compared to a recent system.



I can't give an objective answer to that since I don't have a recent system to compare but I can say that my system allows me to cut an average kit with 250 parts in four hours when it used to take six.

(I'd love to have a new laser that is good at cutting thin balsa and BB and etch text labels but with this economy, that isn't going to happen. )


Kay.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Great info Kay, thanks :)


I called about this too and was told that I had to buy their software driver to correct that problem.

Sadly I have some doubts that their driver will fix a problem that is caused by one of the fundamental laws of Physics (Velocity,Mass,Kinetic Energy equation) watered down 2 x speed = 4 x energy.

cheers

Dave

[Kay Bengtson]

Great info Kay, thanks :)



Sadly I have some doubts that their driver will fix a problem that is caused by one of the fundamental laws of Physics (Velocity,Mass,Kinetic Energy equation) watered down 2 x speed = 4 x energy.

cheers

Dave
They have a video of a 25ER cutting a spiral on paper that is super fast. I think the motors and belt system are capable of handling at least some of the faster speeds but I think that they must have used their new driver that sends more points per curve and perhaps that they over tightened the belts for the example.

The issue for me was that they claimed the standard ULS driver would be fine but then said I needed to buy this expensive driver. That is misleading and it made me mistrust them

Kay

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Kay,

Indeed, I'd be thinking very much the same as you, once bitten twice shy as it were. What would worry me is if a Western machine had some problems with their card then the chances of an Eastern machine having the same problems or worse are statistically very likely.
I guess I've had a few too many years doing this to take manufacturer statements at anything more than face value these days, it's quite sad when as an industry we reach the stage of assuming most of the claims we read are false :(

best wishes

Dave

[Dan Hammerstron]

Kay, the software you use is CorelDraw and you send to the laser the same as you used to? also the speed is doubled from 50in. per to 100 in. per. according to there manual they sent, it says its windows driver that works in any format the same as any other print driver, I was given 2 company names that use there system as yet only talked with one, that has converted a Chinese machine, also has American machines. he is very happy, especially with the 256 grey scale abilities of which he has only 8 and 16. so far I am liking what I have heard.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Is that Inches per minute Dan?

cheers

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

especially with the 256 grey scale abilities of which he has only 8 and 16.

I would ask for some clarification on this... I'm assuming he means he can set the power on 256 levels? The ULS has 8 colors for different powers in the same drawing, and you can set 16 different levels based upon a grayscale image for 2.5D work. This is completely different than dithering 256-level grayscale images for photorealstic engravings.

[Dan Hammerstron]

273473I just talked to Tom Hart, he is the President of the Co. It is a WYCIWYG and works the same as the universal driver from CorelDraw, I have a universal and love it. The 256 greyscale is for 3d carvings for linear output, this is the company that built the controllers for universal up to the quite recently, but if you need proof I am going on his words, he has offered me one to try and I am going to take him up on it, he of course wants a deposit of 25%.

[Dan Hammerstron]

273477This Co. made the controllers for ULS up till quite recently according to Thomas Hart the CEO. of Testra, He has offered to let me try this out on my 1390 Keyland laser and I am going to take him up on it.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Are you looking at fitting one to a ULS or retro fitting one to a Chinese laser?


but if you need proof I am going on his words

I don't have need of proof Dan, I'm not looking at buying one. You asked if they are any good and some doubts have been raised that's all.

cheers

Dave

[Kay Bengtson]

Dan, I use AutoCAD 2000i not Coreldraw. Mr. Hart was the person that I dealt with. The hardware is pretty solid but their support after the sale and their claims are not so much. I have never had such an experience with any tech device and I have dealt with most of the major electronics firms. I designed and had my own microcontroller based product for sale for over ten years so I know something about how to deal with hardware/software issues.
Best of luck in your project. I wish Testra had followed thru on my unit. $2000 was a lot to spend only to be left in the lurch.

Kay

[Rodne Gold]

I use the times 2 and a 1/2 rule when buying stuff
2x the running cost quoted by salesmen and 1/2 the feature/performance claims - if it still makes economic sense applying the rule ... then I go for it.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Just had a look at the Keyland machine.

Flying mirror at 100 inches per second isn't happening on that machine. 24 ips maybe for engraving and 8ips for cutting, that machine just isn't built to take the claimed kinetic energy figures. Much like the claims of Chinese lasers cutting 30mm acrylic, in theory it will do it but the end product is going to be a worthless piece of melted plastic.

I know what you mean Rod, the one thing that all laser cutter vendors seem to have is an economical command of the truth.

cheers

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Flying mirror at 100 inches per second isn't happening on that machine.

Agreed... I'd bet the shake at the ends of the travel would cause some serious blur in the engraving, assuming they try to turn around fast enough for any real-world speed. Otherwise, they're counting on a lot of overshoot, which means they make 100ips in movement, but the overshoot is so long the engraving time is the equivalent of a 50ips machine.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Agreed... I'd bet the shake at the ends of the travel would cause some serious blur in the engraving, assuming they try to turn around fast enough for any real-world speed. Otherwise, they're counting on a lot of overshoot, which means they make 100ips in movement, but the overshoot is so long the engraving time is the equivalent of a 50ips machine.

Good point Dan and the larger overshoot if required will cut down the working area by a fair bit.

cheers

dave

[Dan Hintz]

Good point Dan and the larger overshoot if required will cut down the working area by a fair bit.

cheers

dave

Well, there's one way around that... just allow the head to slam into the wall on each side ;) 20G accel/decel :p

[Dan Hammerstron]

Wow, what constructive intelligent posts...gotta be proud.

[Dan Hintz]

Wow, what constructive intelligent posts...gotta be proud.

It's what is classified as humor here, Dan... interjecting a bit of levity into a potentially soul-crushing tech argument.

[Dave Sheldrake]

ACME pinball laser :)

Kidding aside, the figures just don't stack up, 0 -100 ips - 0 on a Chinese based machine irrespective of the controller generates some seriously wacky numbers.

cheers

Dave

[Dan Hammerstron]

I apologize then Dan, "soul crushing" hmmm, I am Kinda familiar with Cnc equipment and rampings and step motors and servo's I have built a few cnc's. I have trashed gears and racks testing motors and diff drives with heavy gantries. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLxzPrN5HK0&list=ULCFvVIMb-KNY .. I am going to start over "why" I have no idea I figured with the volume of people on here it would shorten the quest. My wife runs the lasers and I run the Cnc's she is used to the ULS from corel and inches measurements, so she is having a hard time with the china machine. about 3 months ago I came across a machine that was obviously Chinese but was running from CorelDraw and the machine had been upgraded in Seattle Wash. by www.2laser.com (http://www.2laser.com) I contacted them and they sent me a email.

Hi Dan,

Thanks for contacting us. I am not familiar with the Keyland brand name, but am very familiar with most of the Chinese manufacturers. For the upgrade, you would need the controller (includes stepper motor drivers) and a new set of motors (same size mounting as your current motors). The controller comes with software that is the same printer driver style as ULS utilizes. You will be able to print directly from the current version of Corel. Also, the grey scale images is included in the software.

Pricing is US$6,440 and includes telephone/internet technical support for any questions during the installation. Well that's nice so after many emails and search I have found there source it is Testra also have other companies that are using Chinese parts and upgrading them. so its not quite soul crushing...is it.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Dan,

Does the Keyland machine not have the option for the Corel plugin?

cheers

Dave

[Dan Hammerstron]

Yes it does, up to ver.4 but its just as fast to use a swap file and the RDcam software.