Good Thread on Storing Roughed Bowls

[Dan Masshardt]

I'm sure this has been discussed many times over, but I can't seem to find a good thread on it. Can someone link one for me? I'm just starting to turn green wood bowls after turning other stuff for almost a year. I'm wondering what the most common wisdom is for storing roughed out bowls. Where / how to store? Anchorseal? How to gauge how long to let them? Thanks!

[J.D.Redwine]

Try turning green to finish. You might like it.

[Dan Masshardt]

Try turning green to finish. You might like it.

Is that what you do?

Does the bowl just warp and that's just part of the finished product?

[Brian Kent]

Sometimes I turn rough and put it in a paper bag full of its own moist shavings, letting it adjust gradually, then return and re-turn.

Other times I go for thin and let it warp.

With Eucalyptus I often turn somewhat thin and then put it in shavings anyway to slow the drying, since this stuff can crack all over the place.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Dan, We live in the same climate, in fact, less than 100 miles apart. Climate makes a big difference when deciding how to store rough outs and for how long. The old rule of drying one year per inch of thickness plus a year need not be as important for bowls as it is for furniture wood. I find my rough outs lose a lot of moisture the first year. I try to keep an assortment drying so I have choices when I need to pick a bowl to finish. I probably have 100 bowls and hollow forms in various stages of drying at any given time. That's a small amount compared to some turners. I Anchorseal the end grain of most bowls inside and out. Depending on the wood and how wet it is when I turn it I may begin the storage in a relatively damp spot, like a cement floor in a dark room. After a few weeks I move it to a drier area. If the bowl dries too quickly it will crack. They all end up on a shelf in a somewhat heated area. Cherry is my favorite wood but also is prone to cracking especially if I leave any sap wood on the rough out. I Anchorseal cherry and start the drying in a bag. You have to experiment to see what works for you. In any event, you will have the best luck if you turn the rough out to even wall thickness. Here's the good news. Turning rough outs is great practice and lots of fun. It is a real stress reliever. JD suggested you turn to finish. I call those once turned bowls. I agree with him. A certain percentage of my bowls and most of my hollow forms are once turned. Do both and see what you like best.
faust

[J.D.Redwine]

Is that what you do?

Does the bowl just warp and that's just part of the finished product?
Yes but not as much as I thought they would.

[Reed Gray]

For the twice turned bowls, Mike Mahoney seems to have the best set up. He does the 10% thickness thing, rounds over the edges on the rim, totally seals them with anchor seal, then stores them in his wine cellar. You want fairly cool, no sun, and no wind. No heat source, or air conditioning. Both are dehydrators. Some will build kilns out of old freezers and I am sure you can find a thread on that. I prefer the warped bowls. Turn to 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick at most, round over the rims. Then some wet sand them, but I prefer to put several wraps of plastic stretch film around the edge, and lean them up in a corner on the concrete floor. Dry in 1 to 2 weeks max. You do need to power sand them, and either a spindle lock (4 position is best) or a lathe that will go down to 15 to 20 rpm. My Robust was reprogrammed so it would go that slow. I did find it easier to let them dry rather than force dry them or wet sand them.

robo hippy

[Dan Masshardt]

Thanks for the thoughts so far all.

I guess I didn't realize that you could turn a bowl all the way from green wood.

The idea if warping doesn't bother me that much. Big cracks more so.

So, with once turned green bowls, what's the protocol for sanding and finishing?

[John Beaver]

There are many techniques and opinions on turning green wood. You have to try different processes and see what works best for you.

Most of my work requires rough turning, drying and returning. Where I live, there are great swings in humidity, so I put everything in brown paper bags to dry . This creates a sub climate inside the bag and keeps the evaporation at a steady pace. When I turn thin with one pass I put the shavings in the bag to slow the process down even more. Don't want that 10% humidity we had this week to dry the bowls too fast. Regardless of your technique, it's important to get the wall thickness consistent.

Here's a couple of articles from the web that might be helpful.

http://www.johnjordanwoodturning.com/John_Jordan_Woodturning/Understanding_Wood.html

http://www.customwooddesign.com/turninggreenwood-1.html

[Rich Aldrich]

Most of the bowls I make are rough turned, soaked in denatured alcohol for about 48 hours, air dry for a half hour to one hour, and bagged for about a month. I have turned a few bowls to finish green and stuffed in a bag for about a month.

[Mike Cruz]

Dan, to turn green to finish, you have to go pretty thin. Otherwise, it'll crack. And yes, it WILL warp. Whether as much as you think, less or more...it will warp. If you are okay with that, then turning green to finish is fine. If you like your bowls round, sitting flat, and clean, then turn green, let dry, and re-turn.

AnchorSeal is great. It isn't infallible. Wood can still crack with it. Usually if it is a kind of wood that is very prone to splitting...like willow. The main thing to remember is to make sure, even though it is a roughout, that your wall thickness is very even. The worst is thinner at the rim than at the bottom. You can get away with thicker at the rim than the bottom or even thickness the whole way...just not thinner at the rim.

Honestly, I don't know the "best" way to store them. I know some people just stack them. Personally, I put up some shelves up in my shop, and just put them on the shelves. The way I see it, the more air around each roughout, the more evenly they can dry. But that is just how I see it...not gospel.

How long to dry? Well, each piece will be different. But about 6 months is a good rule of thumb. If the wood isn't too wet to begin with, it could dry faster. It also depends on how thick the walls are. Obviously, a 9" roughout with 3/4" walls will dry out faster then a 24" bowl with 1 1/2-2" walls. Many people like to weigh the blanks, and keep a log of the weight loss. When the blanks stop losing weight, they are ready.

Now, you didn't mention it, but DNA (denatured alcohol) is another method. What you'll need is a container to hold 5+ gallons of DNA (also, one that will hold the maximum diameter that you can turn...IF you can...dog food storage containers work well), at least 5 gallons of DNA (at the BORG, you'll pay about $15 per gallon, but you might be able to find a supplier where you can get 5 gallon buckets), and paper bags. Once roughed out, soak the it in the DNA for a day or two (you can keep it in there for weeks...it won't hurt anything...just at least a day or two). Then take it out of the DNA bath, and wrap the roughout like a present in a paper bag (paper grocery bag or the likes). Cut out the center of the wrapping (the center of the bowl...all along the inside of the rim). Let that sit for 2 weeks or so. Then unwrap and let sit for 2 weeks or so. You SHOULD be good to go. So, that is one month vs 6 months. BUT it is a bit more expensive...

Hope that helps!

[Dennis Ford]

As Faust said, climate is a big factor, season is also important (drying during the summer is different), wood variety is another variable. Depending on those variables, I do the following:
* turn thickness to 10% of diameter, wrap in brown paper and store on a shelf
* turn thickness to 10% of diameter, coat with anchorseal and store on shelf
* turn thin, dry overnight and finish the next day
* turn to final thickness, wrap in brown paper and dry for a couple of weeks

My drying shelves are outdoors under a roof. The rough-outs are placed so that air can circulate all around, stacking bowl rough-outs can lead to problems.

With a brown paper wrap, most bowl rough-outs will dry in 6 weeks (much less in the summer) in my area.
A rough-out coated with anchorseal will dry in a few months in my area; slower (and less likely to crack) than the brown paper wrap. I use this method for nearly all woods in the summer and for crack prone woods any time.
A piece turned to 1/8" or less thickness will usually dry in 24 hours and will rarely have any cracks.
A piece turned to 1/4 - 3/8" will dry in a less than a week if left in the open, for some woods this is too fast so I slow it down with brown paper to prevent cracking.
All of these times are rough estimates and vary greatly depending on wood and weather.

[Brian Kent]

On the day that the morning wind blew in from the ocean at 87% humidity, and then by 1 PM the wind is coming from the desert at 11% humidity - Turn in the morning, set aside to deal with in the evening, toss and start over.

[alex grams]

Depending on the wood, my usual practice is to turn to 10%, DNA soak for 24 hours, then wrap in a bag and sit on a shelf in the garage for a month or so.

More problematic woods (like oak) get more treatment. I will typically DNA soak, then coat the end grain in anchorseal, and then throw in a bag surrounded by sawdust and let sit for about 2 months. Oak is the worst wood I have worked with for cracking. If I pull out the oak after even 1 month to let finish by air drying, I will still get some cracks.

Mesquite on the other hand is awesome to work with, you can turn green to finish, let air dry, and rarely see any warp.

[Dan Masshardt]

Thanks for all the responses. The wood I have tons of right now is maple - I believe silver maple.

[J.D.Redwine]

Dan here are some 12" maple bowls I turned green last spring.273401

[Dan Masshardt]

Dan here are some 12" maple bowls I turned green last spring.<img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=273401"/>

They look great. Only a little warped?