A small triumph, and a question about cabinet scrapers

[Patrick Bernardo]

Hey all,

I'm still a beginner with hand tools and have been slowly building my skills. Due to a series of events, a small student-model workbench fell into my lap. So instead of working on the cabinet I had going, I'm trying to rehab the bench instead. Anyway, I've taken the opportunity to try to master the cabinet scraper. I've watched videos, read instructions, but, perhaps ironically, the directions that helped me the most were on Hock's simple page or two in his sharpening book. After following his method, the scraper finally 'clicked' into place on the wood, and I got the infamous 'wispy shavings.' I was amazed at how good the scraper felt, but also how much quicker it was at taking off the old nastiness from the top of the bench with a proper hook. It felt awesome, by the way, and made me realize that, while I'm still a rank amateur, each little victory in the hand tool world is both totally worth it, and actually easier than I think once I focus on doing things right. While I scraped unproductively for a couple of hours spread over a couple of days, once I focused on getting the hook right, I was able to do it in something like 20 minutes of trial and error.

So here's my question: the hook on my scraper seems to last for, maybe, at most 10 swipes or so. After that, I'm back to dust, and have to burnish again. I find that I can just re-burnish the tool maybe 2 or 3 times before I have to go through the whole jointing and stoning process again. Is this normal? Since I'm working totally by hand (Hock burnisher on Hock blade), I'm not certain of the exact angle, but I would wager I'm closer to 15 degrees than 5 degrees. Still, the hook engages at a seemingly low angle of attack - something that I thought was associated with higher hook angles. I know that none of you can see what I'm doing, but I'm trying to get a sense here of what's going on. Are the hooks on a scraper that fragile? Is about 10 swipes or so par for the course? Or is that a sign that I need to adjust something?

pdb.

[Mel Fulks]

You're learning faster than a lot of us did . The bench might have grit in it from having old projects sanded on it .Don't forget you can usually get two cutting edges on the top and two on the bottom.

[Michael Dedon]

Patrick, It sounds like you actually have your problem figured out. It sounds to me like your hook angle is too great and the burr is probably correspondingly too long. Lighten up on the pressure when burnishing. Only make two or three passes on each edge. That's usually all it should need. And keep your angle almost flat. That will give you that close to 5 degree roll you need for the burr. I think you already knew all that.

[Patrick Bernardo]

Thanks guys. I'm still trying to figure this out. I didn't think of the grit, but that sounds like an obvious source of dulling the scraper! This bench was actually used in a school, so who knows what the kids did to it before I got it.

You know, the one thing that you can't really learn from watching or from a book is the right amount of pressure on something like the burnisher. Everybody says 'medium' pressure - whatever that is - so maybe I am too heavy. Still - 2 to 3 passes?

I should be able to feel the burr on the scraper, right? I've been passing the burnisher over until my finger catches a bit when I run it over the side. Is there a better way to check for the burr?

[David Weaver]

Mel is probably right. I am the only person who has ever used my bench, and i use a card scraper to clean the surface every few months. I have the same experience with it, the bench dulls it three times as fast as regular scraping.

Scrapers generally don't hold their burr, at least not like a fresh off the burnisher burr, for hundreds of swipes or anything. The art with them is setting a fairly fine burr initially, and one that's not rolled so far over so that you can refresh it easily.

Just focus on trying to get results a little better each time and at some point, you'll get there.

[Michael Hammers]

LIL...

I learned from a chair-maker how to successfully prepare my scraper with a burnishing rod.
Prior to that I was experiencing the same issues you are speaking of.
One step I had not been doing was really preventing me from a better and longer lasting burr.
I’ll try and explain this, put the scraper first in a vise…..second you take a flat bastard file and (try to visualize this) place it with the broad face against the file below the burr and pull the file straight up.
Do this for both sides. So you are basically coming from below the burr and pressing the file tight against the face pulling the old burr up on each side.
Then go to your burnisher and proceed to burnish said scraper.
Second point would be to make sure you have a good quality steel for your scraper.
I hope that makes some sense, and it may help you.
HTH
YMMV
M

[Terry Beadle]

I've experienced the same issue of non-lasting burrs.

Mr. Ng's youtube video shows that it only takes one stroke per edge with the burnisher to set the burr.
The suggestion of a nearly flat angled burr is also good.

I get around a half dozen burring's between full re sharpenings using this method.

You wouldn't think a 5 degree or less burr will work well but it's the technique that gives a lasting burr since the burr is so slight it has good support.
There fore it lasts longer.

I use my scrapers to keep my rock maple work bench top true and clean. A good scraper is one of the most valuable tools to have. Worth every
penney to learn to sharpen and use versus big bucks for sand paper ( which works lousy in comparison ) . Just my 2 cents!

Enjoy the shavings!

[Patrick Bernardo]

So, just so I know - ballpark, about how long should a proper burr last under normal conditions? Should it be more like 20 scrapes, 50?

Terry, I found a couple videos of Ng. Seem helpful, thanks man.

[Patrick Bernardo]

Well, it keeps getting better. Right now I'm chalking up my problems to:

1) the little cretins that had this bench in school abused it. As I scrape, I'm finding finish nails driven into the wood, and in fact, it does seem gritty. The front of the bench, which is in the picture below, scraped down really easily. It was, I think, abused less.
2) my technique sucks. I'm still working on getting the right angle and everything.
3) I'm a wimp. When I pull the scraper, I find I can bear down a little better, and get fuller, longer shavings. Not as much when I'm pushing, which uses forearm muscles more, I guess.

At any rate, here's a gratuitous (blurry) picture of the shavings I got after working at this for another little while. Chalk it up to what a beginner can accomplish with a little effort:

273386