Shaper fans

[Gregory King]

My workplace would like to upgrade our current GI shaper to a better suited model. We are not full time shaper users, but have the need for a more user friendly model with more accurate results. Raised panel doors is what we are after. Changing the cutters on our clunker is a beast. I'm looking at the Hammer or Felder. Any suggestions on a good middle of the road variety. Greg

[David Kumm]

I think the Hammer is a little light in a commercial shop. Changing cutters and the fence is a pain on any machine until you get to the really high end ones. I'd look at a used SCMI or equivalent and consider two. One set with a feeder and fence and one for cope cuts with a crosscut arrangement. The labor savings will pay for some of the difference. Shapers are simple machines, spindle, quill and bearings. A good heavy unit used will outperform a new lighter version for a long time. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

I agree with what David said. Spend the money and cry once, a good machine will pay for itself in short time! The accuracy and ease of adjustment on the good machines makes them worth the extra IMHO.

And you can never have too many good shapers;)

good luck,
JeffD

[David Eisenhauer]

Not sure what your budget is, but for a commercial application I would recommend checking Weaver shapers and their excellent jigs.

[Peter Quinn]

I've never seen a shaper where changing cutters was particularly difficult. It's the subsequent set up that sucks. An accurate fence is critical. I think the hammer line has a one side adjust fence, that would make me nuts. I have an out feed adjust only on my minimax, for certain set ups I hate it. Luckily I have another shaper with dual micro adjust fences for those times. I'd be looking for a stiff quill, good dual adjustable fence hood, accurate raising and lowering, at least 7" hole in the table for molding heads or big panel raisers. The Felder line with 240 fence would do it, SCMI nova line, maybe some older used Italian models will do it. You need a decent shaper or two to make raised panel doors but not a monster. I like to have at least one 7+ hp machine to do any heavy lifting like molding, but if you never get into that or never expect to I suppose it could be wasted capacity. But like children, business tend to grow over time if things go well, better IMO to have a little more capacity than you need now than a little less than you need later.

[Stephen Cherry]

I would suggest two shapers, a big for the panel and the pattern cut, and the smaller machine to cope. I'm guessing the general machine would cope just fine.

I would take a look at the weaver site for the setups.

For the cope cut, I like this setup:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?192685-Coping-on-a-tight-budget-%28shaper-stuff%29

I have about 3 dollars into the fence, and another 15 or so into the jig. My guess is that the general machine could cope all day long with this sort of setup.

And then another shaper with an outboard fence for the pattern cut. THe weaver site has this setup, which could be duplicated for pretty inexpensively.

For the raised panel, here is a fence which I borrowed from one of the local pros. It clamps the the regular fence, and can be set by putting the bearing corresponding to the min radius of the cutter onto the spindle, then aligning with a strait edge to the fence:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=241030&d=1347420207

[Peter Quinn]

:D
I would suggest two shapers, a big for the panel and the pattern cut, and the smaller machine to cope. I'm guessing the general machine would cope just fine.

I would take a look at the weaver site for the setups.

For the cope cut, I like this setup:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?192685-Coping-on-a-tight-budget-%28shaper-stuff%29

I have about 3 dollars into the fence, and another 15 or so into the jig. My guess is that the general machine could cope all day long with this sort of setup.

And then another shaper with an outboard fence for the pattern cut. THe weaver site has this setup, which could be duplicated for pretty inexpensively.

For the raised panel, here is a fence which I borrowed from one of the local pros. It clamps the the regular fence, and can be set by putting the bearing corresponding to the min radius of the cutter onto the spindle, then aligning with a strait edge to the fence:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=241030&d=1347420207


And it turns out that bottle of Stella is critical to the setup as well.....sort of like a bottle kneck slide from blues guitar, but for woodworkers.....it's hard to conceptualize how it helps but it's critical for success......:D.

[david brum]

And it turns out that bottle of Stella is critical to the setup as well.....sort of like a bottle kneck slide from blues guitar, but for woodworkers.....it's hard to conceptualize how it helps but it's critical for success......:D.

What does the plum do?

[Rick Fisher]

I agree with David. I would look for a used SCM T-130 or similar .. Shapers don't seem to hold resale as good as other tools IMO.. Used would be a good choice ..

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm going to just slightly disagree with Stephen on one point, not b/c he's wrong....but just b/c I have a slightly different opinion;) If your going to set up 2 machines I would use the more accurate, (ie better), shaper for cope work. Why?....because when I run sticking I just set the machine up close enough and run it, as a small shop I don't need the sticking to be exactly the same from job to job. However once the sticking is run I do need the cope to be dead nuts on. So having a quality machine that really lets you dial in that height easily is nice! Having said that I use the same machine for cope and stick and have another shaper set up to do the raised panel work. It takes me maybe 5 - 10 minutes to go from sticking to a fully dialed in cope cut on my machine. That's where having micro adjust on both fence halves is really beneficial.

Also agree on going used, I have 3 top quality shapers I purchased used over the years for less than the cost of a single good new one. But if you have the cash flow to buy new.....well can't fault a guy for that:D The things I'd look for in a new or used machine.....stout overall build.....you can't have too much cast iron! A 1500+ pound shaper is where you want to be looking. Really stout quill assembly! Interchangeable spindles is worth having IMO. A spindle lock and brake are both things that once you use you will not want to be without. A good micro adjust on the fence....priceless! I think most industrial machines offer low speed ranges, but that's another thing that's handy to have if you use larger heads. And lastly I'd want at a minimum 5 hp, though having a little extra in case you branch out is certainly worth having;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Mel Fulks]

Gregory, if you run the pieces FACE DOWN no spindle height adjustment is needed . It might be necessary to put a shim a few thousandths thick under the sticking cutters ,but if the shim is saved that is no problem. Few choose to work this way but it is the way the sets are designed to work. It allows you to easily use just one shaper.

[Gregory King]

Thanks gang for the suggestions so far. I was looking at the Cantek site this AM. I will inquire about a cost of their shaper before we get too deep. Perhaps theirs is a bit more than we need as well but the GI is just too basic. We mostly use the Freud 1/2" shank profile cutters, but with limited power on the GI we are making the raised panel cuts in three passses to keep the finish cut as clean as possible. Thats fine for a limited number of doors. With an upgrade to a larger machine brings more capabilities as well, I suppose. Its not a moulder, but we could produce some of those on a small scale to compliment our sheving and book case units. I'll update when I have more info. Greg