"Woodsmith Shop" Drives Me Nuts!

[Derek Arita]

OK. I know it's the only game in town and we should be glad to have it, but this show drives me crazy. First, since when do three guys work on a home home project? It seems really disjointed to me, to see three different people work on a single project. Unless you're in a production shop, that's just not the way it happens, so come on...one guy, one project. Next, show me! Don't tell me what I should do, then show me the end product. I want to see you do it! That's why you're on TV! This show it produced like a magazine, showing me one picture and surrounding it with a bunch of words. Show me how to do it! This show is done like a skim-over, how to, woodworking article, that you might see in Better Homes and Gardens magazine.
I probably got spoiled by watching years of Norm, showing me step-by-step, how to build this and how to build that. That said, if they're going to produce a woodworking show, then why not gear it towards woodworkers, rather than the casual channel flipper, who might watch one episode, then move on. Just my $.02.

[Brad Cambell]

Derek, you have to remember that they only have 1/2 hour to complete the project. If they only have time to "hit the high spots". Any more would bore most people.

I love the series.

[Mel Fulks]

Excerpt from a tv script:
First guy: one of our
Second guy: fans wants to
Third guy :know why there
First guy :are three of us.

[Derek Arita]

Derek, you have to remember that they only have 1/2 hour to complete the project. If they only have time to "hit the high spots". Any more would bore most people.

I love the series.
Really? I think that's part of what made New Yankee Workshop so good for so long. Well, you're probably right. Still, I like watching someone working wood and I like seeing how the tough parts are dealt with.

[Julie Moriarty]

The Woodsmith guys are boring. I'll take Rough Cut any day. Tommy Mac is entertaining and informative. He's funny too. :D

[Don Selke]

In this day and age, I do not think there will ever be a Norm replacement. Young people are just not interested in working with there hands any more. They only have interests in computers and games. Sadly, My own boys and grandsons can give a hoot about woodworking. Sign of the times I guess or I am just too old. I personally see nothing funny about woodworking. If I want to be entertained, I will watch the news coming out Washington DC. Like I said, I am just too Old I guess.

[Dave Cav]

In this day and age, I do not think there will ever be a Norm replacement. Young people are just not interested in working with there hands any more. They only have interests in computers and games.

The students at my last school, a large (2100 students) urban, lower income area were like this. They took shop because the counselors needed to fill up their schedules.

The students where I teach now, 600 students, more small town/rural, generally like Norm and seem to appreciate the stuff he does. I know that I appreciate Norm a lot more than I did 20 or so years ago, but I still don't have much use for biscuits or portable belt sanders.

[Myk Rian]

The Woodsmith guys are boring. I'll take Rough Cut any day. Tommy Mac is entertaining and informative. He's funny too. :D

I'll watch him when he gets rid of the "Badda Bing".

[HANK METZ]

I'll watch him when he gets rid of the "Badda Bing".



And "wicket bad!" English translation: "wicked bad", Definition: sobriquet commonly used by New Englanders, esp. in the Boston metro area to describe an overwhelming feeling of reverence, admiration, or fear. Normal- speaking people prefer the simple adjective "awesome". :rolleyes:

[Michael Dunn]

In this day and age, I do not think there will ever be a Norm replacement. Young people are just not interested in working with there hands any more. They only have interests in computers and games. Sadly, My own boys and grandsons can give a hoot about woodworking. Sign of the times I guess or I am just too old. I personally see nothing funny about woodworking. If I want to be entertained, I will watch the news coming out Washington DC. Like I said, I am just too Old I guess.

I think it just depends on the person. I'm 32 and I've loved watching Norm for as long as I can remember. I know some other guys even younger than me and they love Norm too. Sadly, though, the majority would definitely rather waste their lives away playing video games. I do still play Tetris on the original N.E.S. system with my wife after the kids go to bed.

[Derek Stockley]

In this day and age, I do not think there will ever be a Norm replacement. Young people are just not interested in working with there hands any more. They only have interests in computers and games. Sadly, My own boys and grandsons can give a hoot about woodworking.

I grew up playing with video games and computers, and now that I make a living with my computer, I find that the best way for me to unwind is to balance it out with building things.

Maybe there won't be a Norm replacement on TV, but I would suggest that the nature of TV itself is the reason for that. If you spend a little while browsing through youtube, you'll find a wealth of freely available woodworking content and lots of other trades and crafts too, being created by people of all ages. If you haven't heard of them, try searching Steve Ramsey, Matthias Wandel and Marc Spagnuolo to start. These guys started out by just doing what they wanted to do, found audiences, then found funding. TV does things in the exact opposite order and as a result, it's harder to convince TV executives to serve niches that won't be able to count their viewers in millions.

[Mike Seals]

I grew up playing with video games and computers, and now that I make a living with my computer, I find that the best way for me to unwind is to balance it out with building things.

Maybe there won't be a Norm replacement on TV, but I would suggest that the nature of TV itself is the reason for that. If you spend a little while browsing through youtube, you'll find a wealth of freely available woodworking content and lots of other trades and crafts too, being created by people of all ages. If you haven't heard of them, try searching Steve Ramsey, Matthias Wandel and Marc Spagnuolo to start. These guys started out by just doing what they wanted to do, found audiences, then found funding. TV does things in the exact opposite order and as a result, it's harder to convince TV executives to serve niches that won't be able to count their viewers in millions.

Very well said Derek, the day and age of "waiting" for the next "show" are gone. A good instance is some shaker doors I was getting ready to build. I did a quick search on the web for building them and found a ton of useful tricks. Today's market is filled with quick answers. And a big sponsor for the past shows where the tool manufactures...so that after you watched it, you just had to have that certian tool. Today with the web, you can find many tricks for obtaining the same result with out needing all the excess tools.....the big dogs don't like that, but hey, not everyone has the room for all their dream tools....

[Curt Harms]

I recall an interview with Russell Morash, creator of This Old House & New Yankee Workshop. His feeling was that shows like The New Yankee Workshop's future was on the web, not on broadcast TV. A possible downside to this is people in sparsely populated areas may not have the internet capacity to do streaming shows, they may have satellite TV though. As far as Woodsmith shop vs. Tommy Mac, IMO it's like comparing perhaps middle school courses to college prep courses. Someone thinking of getting into hobby woodworking may be intimidated by Tommy Mac's projects and choose another hobby instead. There's a place & a need for both shows.

[Derek Arita]

OK...who is Tommy Mac and does Rough Cut play in California? I just did a search on sat and couldn't find a listing.

[Paul Simmel]

uTube has some great sources... better IMO than the TV stuff out there right now. AskWoodMan.tv has sever hundred videos, and the guy is GOOD and completely revealing with extremely informative demonstrations and projects. The Wood Whisperer is also pretty good, and then for gear-heads there is Matthias Wandel who has some amazing creations with full explanation.

Took me a day or so to sort through a plethora of woodworking people taking advantage of uTube. Much much better than anything I've seen on TV. And I am a great admirer of the historic Norm and have seen nearly every show from the beginning. Super guy... but these days there is SO much more out there!

[Gordon Eyre]

I love the show as it gives me an idea as to whether I would want to make the project. If so I can download the plans for free and get to work on it. I also liked watching Norm and never missed a show. I know how to do woodworking and don't need to have every step explained in detail so this show works out well for me. Besides, there are far too few woodworking shows as it is. :)

[Charlie MacGregor]

http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/media/category.php?cat=Tool-Box
This is Tommy before Rough Cut and it's time restraints. A less caffeinated Tommy Mac.

[Dan Hintz]

YMMV, but I think Woodsmith Shop does okay... as others have said, they're putting together a weekend project in 30 minutes. I keep several shows rolling over on the DVR now, something to watch when I'm bored. If old ones get deleted with new ones (something that happens often), I'm okay with that.

I tried watching Tommy Mac... and tried again... and just couldn't do it. After a couple of months went by I finally just deleted it from the DVR. Something about his style that just irritates me (and I spent several years in Boston, so I'm used to the "wicked smaaaat" boys accent).

[Ron Kellison]

The Woodsmith guys are boring. I'll take Rough Cut any day. Tommy Mac is entertaining and informative. He's funny too. :D

And irritating! I often wonder if he forgot to take his Ritalin!

[Jim Matthews]

He's telegenic and no better than the other twenty graduating from NBSS, every year.

I get more out of a Phil Lowe video than six hours of the Mac-n-Jive.
It's a cynical bit of promotion to spend so much time on TM in other maker's shops.

Getting on TV has become a beauty contest.

[Jim Matthews]

OK...who is Tommy Mac and does Rough Cut play in California?

That should tell you something, right there.
The Rough Cut format is frenetic, and barely instructional.

Plenty of free resources, elsewhere.

[Jason White]

It doesn't air in Southern California -- or at least in the Los Angeles area.

I have watched it, though. All I'll say is that you're not missing much.




OK...who is Tommy Mac and does Rough Cut play in California? I just did a search on sat and couldn't find a listing.

[Pat Barry]

I'll take the Tommy Mac show when I can get it and I find it enjoyable. Frankly I think its great that he doesn't do run of the mill projects and he brings in genuine experts and those folks are very educational. The woodsmith guys are not my favorite, but I DVR their programs and watch them when I can. I also like the Wood Whispererer but I don't subscribe.

[Derek Arita]

I watch Spagnulo and Paul Marcel vids and find them entertaining and informative. Trouble is, I don't much care for watching the small screen. Also, internet quality video is marginal no matter how good the content. Wish those two guys were on broadcast tv.

[Rich Harkrader]

If you don't like Tommy Mac on Rough Cut, you should go to Charlie's link above and watch the Bombe Secretary series. It gave me a distinct appreciation for Tommy and his work.

Rich;)

[Julie Moriarty]

If you don't like Tommy Mac on Rough Cut, you should go to Charlie's link above and watch the Bombe Secretary series. It gave me a distinct appreciation for Tommy and his work.

Rich;)
+1 :D

I only wish I had the talent and skill to make that!

[Dale Murray]

My grips with woodsmith shop is petty at best, I cannot stand how one of the guys always punctuates what he's saying with a small laugh. Whats so funny?

[Steve Peterson]

I agree. Woodworking shows are hard enough to find that I will usually watch just about anything they show. Woodsmith Shop is the exception. It seems way too scripted, like they are just reading to me.

Steve

[Jason Beam]

OK...who is Tommy Mac and does Rough Cut play in California? I just did a search on sat and couldn't find a listing.

If you can get KVIE2, out of stockton, you can get 3 woodworking shows, one of which is Rough Cut. The others are Woodwright's shop and American Woodshop. Comcast here has it, it's channel 7 :)

[Rick Potter]

+1 on Tommy Mac and the Ritalin, I watched a couple shows and gave it up. I also watch the Woodsmith shows and wish they would stick to one woodworker. But it is nice to see them doing projects that are in the magazine.

Sure miss Norm, love seeing the early shows when he used a Shopsmith for a drill press.

Rick P

[Charles Wiggins]

I cannot stand how one of the guys always punctuates what he's saying with a small laugh. Whats so funny?

I find the forced chuckle pretty annoying, but I guess the guy's trying to make it seems fun and doing the best he can. We don't have regular TV, so I never get to see Woodsmith Shop unless I'm at my parents' house but the few episodes I saw didn't really resonate like good ol' Norm. Some of their tips are pretty handy though. I love Shop Notes, though I haven't seen a new issue in year. I have a lot of back issues from the library discards where I used to work.

[Derek Arita]

My grips with woodsmith shop is petty at best, I cannot stand how one of the guys always punctuates what he's saying with a small laugh. Whats so funny?

+1 on that nervous chuckle. No hit against the guys that do the show. They're just doing what they're told to do. Part of what bugs me is they're paying big $ for the production and everything on the set is staged to be so perfect. There's no dust on the tables, each piece of wood looks to be premachined perfectly and placed on the table. It's so rehearsed, that sometimes the talent reaches for a part without even looking at it. I guess I like to see sawdust, a little tear out and maybe an occasional "oops". I also don't like the "set" like, shop of the show. I want to see wood worked in a real shop, not on a set.
The show is def over produced and over written. Part of why I like Norm, Spagnulo and Marcel is that I feel like they're talking to me, rather than reading a script...that's good TV.

[Keith Hankins]

Like you I watch but it's a tad to disjointed. I watch Tommy as well, not the best but better than nothing. I really miss Norm & David Marks. I loved that show!

[Jim Rimmer]

OK...who is Tommy Mac and does Rough Cut play in California? I just did a search on sat and couldn't find a listing.

Tommy MacDonald - has a PBS show called Rough Cut with Tommy Mac. It was touted as the new Norm show when it first started but, IMHO, it just hasn't measured up. The Houston area PBS has had it on at different times but not consistently so my viewing has been limited.

[Gordon Eyre]

YMMV, but I think Woodsmith Shop does okay... as others have said, they're putting together a weekend project in 30 minutes. I keep several shows rolling over on the DVR now, something to watch when I'm bored. If old ones get deleted with new ones (something that happens often), I'm okay with that.

I tried watching Tommy Mac... and tried again... and just couldn't do it. After a couple of months went by I finally just deleted it from the DVR. Something about his style that just irritates me (and I spent several years in Boston, so I'm used to the "wicked smaaaat" boys accent).

+1 on Tommy Mac. The guy is amped for sure.

[Stew Hagerty]

What annoys me the most about Woodsmith is the way they try to explain what they're doing to each other instead of to the audience. I agree with Derek; one guy one project, and just talk to US about the project while you're actually working on it. If they didn't waste all that time in their group huddles they would have more time to show how to do the setups and how to do the joinery.

But...

They don't annoy me nearly as much as Scott Philips in American Woodshop. First of all, it's more of a Kreg infomercial than a TV show. Second, I cringe every time he grabs that Super glue. And third, how the heck did he ever get a woodworking show? My wife laughs at me every time I put his show on, because all I do is yell at him because of the way he's doing something.

[Joe Cowan]

My grips with woodsmith shop is petty at best, I cannot stand how one of the guys always punctuates what he's saying with a small laugh. Whats so funny?


I thought I was just being too hard on the guy, but I cannot stand to hear him talk with all the nervous laughter mixed in while he is talking. The young guy on This Old House does the same thing, but not as bad.

[HANK METZ]

... The guy on young guy on This Old House does the same thing, but not as bad.

The wife calls him "little Timmy", and jokes about being in danger again without a collie to rescue him.

[Brian Kerley]

They don't annoy me nearly as much as Scott Philips in American Woodshop. First of all, it's more of a Kreg infomercial than a TV show. Second, I cringe every time he grabs that Super glue. And third, how the heck did he ever get a woodworking show? My wife laughs at me every time I put his show on, because all I do is yell at him because of the way he's doing something.

Oh my....

I don't have enough words to describe my hatred for American Woodshop. Every episode the last few years has been about him re-modelling his house/shop. Water-witching...on a woodworking show...

The two things that tick me off the most are his inability/desire to properly mill his lumber and.....his wife. God I hate that show.

[Garth Almgren]

I just watched an episode this weekend on the local PBS Create station where he was creating a blanket chest with nice carved panels, but I couldn't get past "Ok Al, Al ok. Ok, ok ok Al. Al. Al ok." Felt like a bad cross between the Goodfellas and Home Improvement.

The Woodsmith Shop was OK, but I agree that it was a little disjointed between all the different hosts, and there was too much talking.

[Stew Hagerty]

Oh my....

I don't have enough words to describe my hatred for American Woodshop. Every episode the last few years has been about him re-modelling his house/shop. Water-witching...on a woodworking show...

The two things that tick me off the most are his inability/desire to properly mill his lumber and.....his wife. God I hate that show.

I know... Pretty slick way to get your home remodel paid for, right? Oh, and he's even getting solar panels and a geo-thermal unit by plugging them on his show, even though they don't have one darn thing to do with woodworking!

But I just can't get over what a horrible woodworker he is. Like I said, how the heck did HE get a woodworking show?

[Derek Arita]

Don't get American Woodshop either. Man...I don't anything on Direct!

[Dick Latshaw]

The local PBS station has them lined up on Saturday afternoon, (that is, unless they are fund raising, which they do about one third of the time), American Woodshop, Woodsmith Shop, and Tommy Mac. Hard to pick who is most annoying: Scott, Don, or Tommy. I know. I don't have to watch, but I think it's a moth/flame thing.

[Jim Rimmer]

The last time I watched Scott he teased the opening about the carved panel he was going to make for his cabinet. I'm no carver but was interested in seeing how it was done. Finally go to that part of the show and he pulled out a CNC machine. I haven't watched it since.

BTW, don't get me wrong about CNC machines. If that's your thing, I'm OK with it. Just don't tell me in your TV program you're going to show me how to make a carved panel and pull out the machine.

[Dave Zellers]

No one will ever measure up to the man in the flannel shirt.

I think it's because he worked his way up from a house carpenter to finish carpentry to cabinetry and it showed. People could identify with him. He just comes across as likable.

I always cringed though when he was reproducing an old piece and he would pull out his brad nailer...

[Stew Hagerty]

No one will ever measure up to the man in the flannel shirt.

I think it's because he worked his way up from a house carpenter to finish carpentry to cabinetry and it showed. People could identify with him. He just comes across as likable.

There was just something about Norm. Just like there is about Uncle Roy. their delivery, and the way they explained things. They could keep it within the 30 minute time limit, but still seemed to able to show the most important things.

[Michael Dunn]

My grips with woodsmith shop is petty at best, I cannot stand how one of the guys always punctuates what he's saying with a small laugh. Whats so funny?

OMG!!! That's exactly what I was going to say!!! I enjoy the show, simply because they're working with wood and have power tools on TV. Decent projects too. I've built a ton of their projects.

Yeah, that little snicker/chuckle/laugh has got to go!!! Irritating! I always find myself childishly mocking him in my head after I hear him do that.

The other two guys are so nervous it makes me nervous.

TWW is my personal favorite. I like his style. He's always had great content and has really come into his own in the last several years. I'm always going back to watch his old videos. He's much more 'at ease' now. He never seemed nervous, but looking back, he's much more natural now. Great A/V quality too which is extremely important to me.

That being said, Woodsmith Shop is not at all a bad show. I subscribed to the magazine for a few years too.

[Mark Blatter]

In this day and age, I do not think there will ever be a Norm replacement. Young people are just not interested in working with there hands any more. They only have interests in computers and games. Sadly, My own boys and grandsons can give a hoot about woodworking. Sign of the times I guess or I am just too old. I personally see nothing funny about woodworking. If I want to be entertained, I will watch the news coming out Washington DC. Like I said, I am just too Old I guess.

There is a great deal of truth to what you say Don, but I also know many 12 - 24 year old kids that are interested in woodworking. My two youngest both took wood shop classes in high school, not because they had to or were told to, but because they wanted to learn. Both now want to continue building things and in fact they both are looking to build a complete bedroom set for themselves. The oldest of the two will be graduating from college next year and starting grad school, so her time is pretty limited, but she is still trying to find time to get started.

In their class at school there were a number of pretty serious woodworkers, ones that took the time to make complicated projects during the summer. It was a small town though and that likely helped.

[Harry Hagan]

+1 on that nervous chuckle. No hit against the guys that do the show. They're just doing what they're told to do. Part of what bugs me is they're paying big $ for the production and everything on the set is staged to be so perfect. There's no dust on the tables, each piece of wood looks to be premachined perfectly and placed on the table. It's so rehearsed, that sometimes the talent reaches for a part without even looking at it. I guess I like to see sawdust, a little tear out and maybe an occasional "oops". I also don't like the "set" like, shop of the show. I want to see wood worked in a real shop, not on a set.
The show is def over produced and over written. Part of why I like Norm, Spagnulo and Marcel is that I feel like they're talking to me, rather than reading a script...that's good TV.

He reminds me of the Pillsbury Dough Boy giggling! Very annoying.

[Brad Cambell]

I actually love the show and look forward to the next project that they do. As some have said, they only have 30 minutes to put together a project from start to finish. Think about it, how long does it take you to change your 10" table saw blade to your dado blade and adjust it to get the precise fit? I think I want to see excerpts of the whole project and not every detail of a couple cuts.I guess because I know how to work in a woodshop it just seemed natural to me the way that they illustrate concepts. I think that the flow between them is good too. They give you enough information to guide you through the process.

One of my engineering colleagues chuckles when he explains something to people. It was annoying at first. I think that Don does it as a mechanism to start his speaking part.

Anyway you cut it, I miss Norm and the New Yankee Workshop. He is a real craftsman.

By the way, have you used any of their plans? I have built two, and they guide you through every little step with plenty of details.

[Derek Arita]

Thing is, I think we got spoiled with Norm. He explains things in simple terms. He demonstrates all of the important processes. We get to watch wood really getting worked. All, in a 1/2 hour. There's nothing slick or flashy about the show...it just is what it is, just like most of us, when we work our shops.
Someone said earlier that a show like this is geared toward getting someone interested in WW, rather than giving us a how-to. Actually, I think watching Norm handle and process wood, from rough lumber, to dimensioned pieces, to finished works, is what caught my attention. Seeing the sawdust fly is what inspired me.

[Brian Tymchak]

Thing is, I think we got spoiled with Norm. He explains things in simple terms. He demonstrates all of the important processes. We get to watch wood really getting worked. All, in a 1/2 hour.


Actually, Norm / NYW had several 2 part shows. they did not have any issues with taking a larger project and creating 2 shows out of it to allow for some detail. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. And actually 1/2 hr is really only 20 minutes to allow for all the advertising to pay for the show.

[Stew Hagerty]

Actually, Norm / NYW had several 2 part shows. they did not have any issues with taking a larger project and creating 2 shows out of it to allow for some detail. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. And actually 1/2 hr is really only 20 minutes to allow for all the advertising to pay for the show.

Yeah, back in the day, "Public Broadcasting" was just that... Public (well, and Government subsidies). They didn't have advertising. Now the only difference between PBS and other network and cable channels is that PBS put all of their ads on either end of the show, instead of the middle.

[Dale Murray]

I feel producers fear consumers attention span, if they cannot wrap it up in a single episode nobody will ever watch it. People will come back to watch the next episode if the content is interesting, detailed, and informative.

Also, I had no idea other would be so bothered by that little chuckle as much as I am.

[Stew Hagerty]

I feel producers fear consumers attention span, if they cannot wrap it up in a single episode nobody will ever watch it. People will come back to watch the next episode if the content is interesting, detailed, and informative.

Also, I had no idea other would be so bothered by that little chuckle as much as I am.

I think Tommy is getting better. He seemed more at home, or maybe just less nervous this past season than he did the first. Remember, Norm was on TOH for years before he started the NYW. He was comfortable being on TV while doing and explaining things. Plus, I seems as though Norm's personality is just naturally more laid back than Tommy's is.

[David D Smith]

As a subscriber to both Woodsmith, and Shopnotes, I enjoy the Woodsmith Shop/PBS series. Sure, there are some quirks here and there, but in defense of the show, its the best thing broadcast in our area and frankly, they do a much better job than I could.

[dennis thompson]

There are many things that drive me nuts, the IRS, sometimes my kids , politics in general, but these are things I must put up with. A TV show that drives me nuts is easy, I don't understand all the complaining about this woodworking show , that woodworking show, or any woodworking show.....if you don't like a show just don't watch it, seems like a pretty simple solution.

[Derek Arita]

There are many things that drive me nuts, the IRS, sometimes my kids , politics in general, but these are things I must put up with. A TV show that drives me nuts is easy, I don't understand all the complaining about this woodworking show , that woodworking show, or any woodworking show.....if you don't like a show just don't watch it, seems like a pretty simple solution.
I think the thing is, there are so few woodworking shows on the air, that I want to like it. In fact, in m area, I think it's the only WW show on the air. I really want to like it, because it has all the potential in the world, to be a great WW show. I keep tuning in, hoping that the format will change and get better...but it doesn't. That's why it drives me nuts. I work in TV and know how easy it is to over-produce something, missing the whole point of the show itself and that's what I think happened here. Show's like NYW keep it simple and that makes it watchable and informative. KISS.

[George Gyulatyan]

The Woodsmith guys are boring. I'll take Rough Cut any day. Tommy Mac is entertaining and informative. He's funny too. :D
Yup, I was gonna say the same thing. Plus his projects are far more imaginative and educational as it comes to technique with both power and hand tools. His attention to detail and the way he walks through how he comes to a design or construction decision is great as well. Plus his opening tune is way cooler too!

[George Gyulatyan]

In this day and age, I do not think there will ever be a Norm replacement. Young people are just not interested in working with there hands any more. They only have interests in computers and games. Sadly, My own boys and grandsons can give a hoot about woodworking. Sign of the times I guess or I am just too old. I personally see nothing funny about woodworking. If I want to be entertained, I will watch the news coming out Washington DC. Like I said, I am just too Old I guess.
I think there is some merit in your generalization. Not too long ago, I checked my "ad tracking" profile based on Google Searches, and Google had placed me in the 65+ year old category based on the fact that I was doing a lot of woodworking related searches at the time. I am currently 42.

However, I think there is interest in some young people, but unfortunately they don't have the same classes available in high-school to spark interest. My 4-year old son loves to come and hang out whenever I am doing some woodworking. Sometimes he gets himself in trouble but as long as I give him a hand saw, some off-cuts and glue, he's a happy camper.

So part of the "problem" is lack of exposure. Kids get exposed to iPhones and iPads and XBox far more readily than planes, chisels and other tools. Many of them also live in apartments or condos where it would be pretty much impossible to create any sort of "mess"... uh... I mean sawdust :D

[George Gyulatyan]

OK...who is Tommy Mac and does Rough Cut play in California? I just did a search on sat and couldn't find a listing.
Yes, he does play in California... at least in SoCali on KCET and KVCR on weekends.

[Stew Hagerty]

Not too long ago, I checked my "ad tracking" profile based on Google Searches, and Google had placed me in the 65+ year old category based on the fact that I was doing a lot of woodworking related searches at the time. I am currently 42.

I'm curious George (I just had to say that), How do you check your "ad tracking" profile in Google? I'm looking at my Web History page in my account and I can see graphs on my usage, but I don't see anything like what you mentioned.

[George Gyulatyan]

I'm curious George (I just had to say that), How do you check your "ad tracking" profile in Google? I'm looking at my Web History page in my account and I can see graphs on my usage, but I don't see anything like what you mentioned.

Yeah, it's a well hidden URL :) And you don't even have to have a google account, it still tracks you through cookies.
https://www.google.com/settings/ads/onweb/

[Rick Potter]

Just checked it George. Apparently I am a female aged 18-24. I guess I shouldn't have let the family females play Farmville under my account, which they opened, and I never use.

Rick Potter

[Stew Hagerty]

Thanks George. Unfortunately, since I have one, it shows my actual age "Based on your Google profile". Too bad, that would have been interesting information.

[Calvin Jamison]

Norm for president! Bet he could build a better country than Obama.

[George Gyulatyan]

Norm for president! Bet he could build a better country than Obama.
I disagree. The Teapublicans would do everything in their power to ruin all the great things he'd build.

But let's not turn this into a political thread ;)

[Stew Hagerty]

Norm for president! Bet he could build a better country than Obama.

Just think of all the cool new furniture we'd get for in the Whitehouse.


Hmmm, I wonder what a TOH makeover would look like?

[Paul Wunder]

I just checked my "Google Ad Profile". For each category it simply says: "N/A" (not applicable, not available, not alive). Fortunately my wife thinks I am a person

[John Piwaron]

As far as Woodsmith shop vs. Tommy Mac, IMO it's like comparing perhaps middle school courses to college prep courses. Someone thinking of getting into hobby woodworking may be intimidated by Tommy Mac's projects and choose another hobby instead. There's a place & a need for both shows.

IMO, the Woodsmith TV show is very unlike Woodsmith the magazine. When I became interested in learning woodworking, Woodsmith was my gateway. All projects clearly spelled out, all steps in proper order to arrive at a finished project. The TV show isn't like that. Yes, Tommy's show is more advanced. The viewer of that show probably already knows at least the basics. And is ready to learn more.

I miss Norm's show. I think it sort of fits between The Woodsmith show and Tommy Mac. He had interesting projects using techniques that might be advanced to some or "more of the same" to others, but certainly understood by all.

And I *really* miss David Marks show "Woodworks" :(

I wish there were more WW shows on TV. Including some catering to a high level. People like me should be of interest to advertisers. I have money to spend but few shows to watch.

[John Piwaron]

let's not turn this into a political thread ;)

Yeah, I'm here for woodworking!

Would the president be allowed to use woodworking tools?

[Curt Harms]

Yeah, it's a well hidden URL :) And you don't even have to have a google account, it still tracks you through cookies.
https://www.google.com/settings/ads/onweb/

Well, unless you have set privacy settings to delete cookies after each session, at least on Firefox.

[John Piwaron]

So part of the "problem" is lack of exposure. Kids get exposed to iPhones and iPads and XBox far more readily than planes, chisels and other tools. Many of them also live in apartments or condos where it would be pretty much impossible to create any sort of "mess"... uh... I mean sawdust :D

I've seen stories about people woodworking in apartments and condos. Usually they're going about it the neanderthal way. A hand plane, is, after all, quieter than a lunchbox planer. Same thing with a Dozuki vs tablesaw.

[Dan Schmidt]

+1 on Woodsmith show comments. What irritates me is the ONLY operation they show is using the dado set.

Hands down, the best show around is The Wood Whisperer - especially the Guild. It's the only show where I have actually learned new techniques - all others are too rushed/abbreviated and superficial. $99 spent on an AppleTV got this on my TV, and was the BEST investment I ever made.

[Ron Kellison]

It's not woodworking, but the best investment I ever made was spending the time (35 years ago) to get to know a lady name Sue!

Ron

[Michael Dunn]

+1 on Woodsmith show comments. What irritates me is the ONLY operation they show is using the dado set. Hands down, the best show around is The Wood Whisperer - especially the Guild. It's the only show where I have actually learned new techniques - all others are too rushed/abbreviated and superficial. $99 spent on an AppleTV got this on my TV, and was the BEST investment I ever made.

I agree. TWW has severely upped my game. He's quite accessible too. I email him personally quite a bit for advice. He responds quick and is ready and willing to assist.

I just signed up for the Dogon Platform bed a la cart membership. Wow!!! Great stuff!!!

[Sid Matheny]

I watch it from time to time just to see what color Don's hair is that week. :D


Sid

[Denny Rice]

I think Tommy is getting better. He seemed more at home, or maybe just less nervous this past season than he did the first. Remember, Norm was on TOH for years before he started the NYW. He was comfortable being on TV while doing and explaining things. Plus, I seems as though Norm's personality is just naturally more laid back than Tommy's is.

I agree. Tommy's show has got a lot better. I got to meet Tommy Mac not that long ago and we talked forever. It was a very cool day for me, we talked about everything we could think of (tools and processes) that had to do with woodworking. He is very knowledgeable when it comes to his craft, and I love his old stuff thats out on the internet before PBS picked him up and Rough Cuts was started. His old stuff is a lot like Marc's stuff on the WW website except Tommy had to "bleep" words out because he would let a foul word slip every now and then, made me laugh. Its really worth the time to go through the videos he has on the webpage.:D

[Jerry Olexa]

Yes, NY Workshop was the BEST!!!!! But ALL these current shows have some merit depending on the topic covered..Many woodsmith shows are very basic and some Tommy Mac's are very good (e.g., Cabriolet legs)..We are spoiled by Norm but at least we have something to help us through withdrawl....

[Stew Hagerty]

I got to meet Tommy Mac not that long ago and we talked forever. It was a very cool day for me, we talked about everything we could think of (tools and processes) that had to do with woodworking.

I know what you mean. I met him at WIA 2 years ago. He was at the Woodcraft booth, and we chatted for quite a while. He found a couple of special items and autographed them for me to take back for my nephews. Then we bumped into each other back at the hotel and sat down for a couple of drinks. You're right, he is a very cool guy to talk to. He doesn't have all of his nervous mannerisms. And he really knows his stuff! I just hope that he works at making his show a little easier going, and more detail oriented. I could do without the roadtrip in every episode. Sometimes it is needed for the episode, and in those instances it is quite entertaining. But, a lot of the time, he could just go straight into the woodworking. I know it is more time consuming, but I'd like it if he could show a little more of the hand tool work. I do like that he will go through special setups on the table saw and bandsaw, and he does a pretty good job showing layout. Everything just seems rushed. Hey Norm did it in the same amount of time without the rushed feeling, so they know it can be done.

[Rick Potter]

It is sad to say, but I am sure Tommy's show is hurried on purpose. Most TV shows these days are quicker paced, and aimed at the short attention spans that are common in their prize demographic. Sadly it is a different generation than Norm spoke to, as far as the producers are concerned. Watching some older TV shows or movies, it is apparent they could spend more time building up to a conclusion. Now, those movies seem really slow to youngsters. Try to get a 20 something to watch Casablanca, some will like it, many won't.

Case in point....My 12 year old grandson came over and I suggested we watch a movie together. He was all for it, and likes scary movies. I happened to have Psycho on the DVR, and we watched it. Me made it a half hour before he said it was boring and we quit. He expected to see more hacking and slashing, rather than suspense buildup.

Not to pick on movies, etc. It is prevalent in many facets of current life. How many people 'dine' in their cars to save time? Campbell soup comes in all kinds of new packaging to make it quicker to eat and run. In its beginnings it WAS fast food. I could go on, but how many will read this far anyway?

Sorry if this seems like a rant, it was supposed to be a possible explanation.

Rick Potter

[Derek Arita]

Not sure I agree with the "younger generation is different" theory. I was always working with wood somehow, but didn't really get serious about it, until my forties. I don't think I'm the exception. Young people are just too occupied with other things to take the time to work wood. I think that's true for all generations.
First I began watching TOH to help me with some home improvements...something I didn't have to worry about until I actually owned a house. TOH led to NYW and Norm. I watched the shows over and over again, until I finally had the room for a small shop. Once I was able to work wood, I was able to hit the ground running thanks to the details I learned, watching NYW. I can tell you that I would not have been able to do that had I been watching Woodsmith. People may develop an interest by watching Woodmith, but they're not going to learn how to.

[Denny Rice]

The best thing I found on Woodsmith Shop in the last year was a 30 minute show they produced on jigs. I really liked the tapering jig they made along with the jig for the router table, other than that I will continue to DVR it and speed through it if its something that does not interest me. Example: last weekend they did series on routers, over 1/2 the program was taken from a series they did last season on routers.

[Peter Quinn]

I recall watching the wood smith shop once and thinking "I didn't know the three stooges did wood working...this guy, that guy, the other guy, Nuuk nuuk nuuk...too many chefs. " Rough cut still feels a bit too much like its name sake, gives me agita though I truly respect his craftsmanship. It's really hard I imagine to convey that message to a mixed national audience in a half hour format that relies in increasingly on corporate support. I keep hoping he will start speaking more slowly, maybe do a few two episode bits for complicated stuff. I do learn or at least rediscover a good technique each time I watch him, best thing going on TV IMO. I didn't cry when Norm retired, that was my dads show, and besides Norm earned his retirement for sure. But when they took DJ Marks off the air I nearly had a panic attack. Maybe it's my own personal approach to things, I don't want a spoon fed dumbed down hey even you wood butchers can do this approach to wood working education. I'm not into building Adirondack chairs and pine pie safes in my spare time, I loved the technical prowess and inspiration that wood works represented. And Mr Marks is a great teacher. I may never even approach that level of mastery, but I'll always keep following his light. So when I saw FWW selling the DJ Marks complete series in my inbox last week I let out a little hurray....until I saw the cost per season...then the panic attacks started all over again. If I pay that much for the videos I won't have enough money left for wood!

[Dan Schmidt]

Not sure I agree that NYW should get such high praise. While he aired the woodworking community blasted him at nausea for his specialty tools, use of the brad nailer, and lack of detail in his shows. Question is, are you looking to learn or be entertained or just stimulated with the sound of the tools.
TWW and to a lesser extent Woodworks are the only true educational shows for any but the most amateur woodworkers.

[Derek Arita]

Not sure I agree that NYW should get such high praise. While he aired the woodworking community blasted him at nausea for his specialty tools, use of the brad nailer, and lack of detail in his shows. Question is, are you looking to learn or be entertained or just stimulated with the sound of the tools.
TWW and to a lesser extent Woodworks are the only true educational shows for any but the most amateur woodworkers.
Dan, sounds like you're a much more advanced WW than I. NYW taught me what I needed to know to get me started and I still learn from Norm when I rewatch some of his shows. Woodworks was always a, "Gee...maybe I'll be there someday..." but for now, I'm still at the Norm level. Guess we're all at different levels of experience, equipment and aspirations.

[Michael W. Clark]

I really liked D Marks too. I like seeing how the masters/pros work and their shop setups. The Woodsmith show is so staged and it seems like a continuous advertisement for tools and gadgets. Show me equipment that's used and still doing the job. That is a better advertisement in my opinion.

[Jay Shreve]

Derek, you have to remember that they only have 1/2 hour to complete the project. If they only have time to "hit the high spots". Any more would bore most people.

That's crap. There's no reason they can't have extended more detailed clips online. This thread is 10 years old and they're still doing the same crap.

[Rob Sack]

I know this is an old thread, and frankly it really shouldn't matter, but I still watch the show and it drives me nuts when Chris Fitch points his finger at me. I feel like I am back in school and did something wrong.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Ever notice, no matter what the milling operation, there isn't a single drop of saw dust lying around? No dust collections hose visible, must have "flux capacitor" dust collection system. After many years, they are getting better about looking at the camera that is recording at that time. Still enjoy the program. On the Saturdays that I can catch them, it's either a show I have already seen, or local PBS has the beg on. NYW shows are now on YouTube, with collection growing weekly.

[Edward Weber]

I suppose we're reviving this thread

I used to like watching but as time went by, it's appeal lessened.
I started watching in the middle Saturday morning, got about 5 minutes max and had to change the channel.
One thing I'll say about TV educational shows is that, I like the balance between personality and education to be somewhat even. If it's all personality, you run the risk of getting little content. These guys on the other hand, have no personality and makes the content like watching paint dry.'
JMHO

[Pat Germain]

Zombie thread back from the dead! :)

I don't think I've ever seen this show.

This same subject comes up occasionally on the Vintage-Mustang forum where I also hang out online. I used complain how stupid all the car TV shows are. The clowns in those shows somehow have old cars with no rust; presumeably because they're in Southern California. They remove perfectly good factory parts and replace them with expensive, blingy aftermarkets parts as an "upgrade". Trouble is most of those aftermarket parts don't work as well as the factory stuff.

One of the members on the forum, Rick, owns a classic car parts vendor called National Parts Depot; NPD. (It is without a doubt the best place to get classic car parts.) Rick often explains in this world there are "doers" and there are "dreamers". When it comes to car TV shows, the vast majority of people watching fall into the dreamer category. Those people will never actually own and restore a classic car. They simply dream of doing so and tune into the show to keep that dream alive. Thus, the TV show doesn't present detailed instructions for replacing rusted sheet metal and sourcing the best quality parts. To the dreamers, that stuff is boring. And to the uniitiated, those blingy parts are attractive. So the manufacturer donates those blingy parts to the show convincing people that's the best option. Apparently there are enough people who do own classic cars, who don't have much a clue and who actually buy those blingy parts.

Woodworking is similiar; doers and dreamers. Most people watching woodworking and home improvement shows are dreamers. They won't get off the couch and actually build something. But they like to dream about building things and renovating their homes. The TV shows are aimed at those people and the sponsors format the shows for dreamers who might buy some of the featured products.

New Yankee Workshop was a freak of instructional television. The host was a real hands-on guy and not some some Hollywood host. The sponsors, like Porter Cable, actually made quality tools used by real people who really did woodworking. Sure, the elitist and purist woodworkers used to bash Norm while they collected expensive tools and hung out with other elitists to drink coffee and complain about all the things wrong with the world. But both dreamers and doers liked Norm.

I think this is why the instructional cable TV shows changed their formats. I can't remember the last time I saw something about homes and gardens on HGTV. Now it's all reality competition shows. History channel has devolved into shows about whackadoodle conspiracy theories and "Ancient Aliens". Again, the couch potatoes get what they want and anyone interested in actually improving their homes and gardens or learning about actual history are ignored.

[Edward Weber]

I agree with your doers and dreamers title, and personally think it can be applied just about anywhere. Any field, any hobby any craft has those who fit your description.

I find it sad that the way the content is presented these days is so dumbed down as to insult your intelligence.
Even TOH rarely rebuilds of repairs anything anymore. It's just tear it all down and put up something new with all the bells and whistles. Then it's not and old house, is it?
As for the HGTV and DIY channels, I haven't watched them in years.
I've been working with tools for many decades and I don't think I ever started a job of any kind by walking in the house with a sledge hammer.

[Tom Bussey]

I watched an episode from 1979 of the New Yankee workshop today and although I question some of the things he did, I really enjoyed the show. I quit watching the Woodsmith shop after the second or third episode. I felt like I was being talked down to by a bunch of writers. I always felt the same way about Scott Fillips. Mac and jive was or is a waist of time.

Phil Lowe's name was mentioned in an earlies reply so I will also mention the fact that Frank Klausz, Willian NU are also very good and there a several others that have produced some great YouTube stuff and DVDs. You just won't find that stuff om TV.

Enough name dropping. I watch woodworking on YouTube. I can tell in short order if I am going to clean anything from a presenter. I do get a lot of useful information form the shows. But not so much from PBS shows on Saturday. Norm was working in the trade and just got lucky and he was smart enough to take advantage of what was being offered, The right place at the right time.