Lowes Product Quality

[George Bokros]

I have noticed that Lowes is replacing some of the major name brand stuff (masking tape, roller covers, cabinet hardware,etc) with brands I have not heard of..i.e. Blue Hawk, Gate House. I perceive this to be moving to lower quality products or is it just my perception? What are your thoughts??

I needed a roller cover and could not find a Purdy but Blue Hawk was everywhere. They still had Purdy brushes but not roller covers except for the small ones (4" and 6" in the small diameter). I have not been a fan of Home Depot because of how they treat their suppliers and their forced self check out but am finding myself going there more often now and they are further from me than Lowes.

George

[Prashun Patel]

I don't mind the Kobalt tools. They're surprisingly decent value, as is some of the Husky stuff from HD.

But I share your prejudice against Blue Hawk.

[David Ballard]

Lowe's marketing is moving more and more to private labeling the products that they offer. Blue Hawk is one of its private labels as is Gatehouse. In the instance of the roller covers that you mentioned, they are actually manufactured by Wooster. The Gatehouse brand is Lowe's private label for hardware made by Schlage for the most part. Of course there is their Kobalt brand for tools with many manufacturers represented depending on what you buy: SK, Stanley, and the same folks who bring you Rigid and Ryobi for the orange store. Tools with the Task Force label are pretty much HF quality.

60% of big box customers are homeowners and DIYers who are more concerned about price than "name brands". When you buy private labels you are for the most part buying products that are made by the "Name" manufacturers. The borgs are just eliminating the associated marketing costs that come along with the "names".

Whether this philosophy will be successful in the long run is another question.

[Keith Hankins]

Noticed same thing with mineral spirits brand as well. I'm buying less and less from them. Luckily I still have other options locally.

[John Schweikert]

The power we have as consumers is our best weapon. If you have displeasure, shop with your dollars elsewhere and companies may get the message. The HDX house brand of crap at the Depot is mind-numbing. I shop with blinders on. I want specific brands and quality products. If a store doesn't carry them, I just go to another store or buy online. Our HD doesn't force anyone to the self checkout lanes, in fact they intentionally move customers through quickly in the standard lanes when the self lanes are backed up. I find staff at my nearest one to be very polite and helpful. I've always liked the cleanliness and organization of Lowes stores but the nearest one is 15 minutes away when a Wally-mart and HD are on the same strip and just minutes away. We are in a more urban neighborhood than suburban.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

While it may seem that buying elsewhere resolves the issue, it doesn't.

There's nothing wrong with purchasing a higher quality product at the other merchant, but don't take it for granted that the management at the store you are vacating understands why you are taking your business elsewhere.

Don't vent.....don't get angry and unload on them. Ask to speak to a department manager and calmly explain why you are taking your business elsewhere. The odds are that neither the department manager nor even the store manager can change which products they can order. They can, however, express in meetings what they were told by former customers who were dissatisfied with the product quality and took their business elsewhere.

[glenn bradley]

I agree with Ken that we have to let the merchant know why we are spending our money somewhere else. I used to be able to get Freud cutters at Lowe's but, no more. At least they still sell Bessey clamps.

[Mark Bolton]

Agreed with all will the caveat that companies like schlage and Wooster will only be the manufacturer for the duration of their contract and if a cheaper source is found (which will be) they will be dumped. The home centers and box chains have all moved in this direction because 99% of the people just say "oh well I need it" and buy it. I would guess .01% of people wait and search elsewhere. If this weren't true these inferior products wouldn't be making millions of dollars in profits and the stores would move to quality.

It's been this way for years with lighting, plumbing, fixtures, all junk, and they are so profitable they can offer you parts for life free of charge. Which likely the same percentage take advantage of.

This has been a 20+ year conversation and it's going exactly where predicted. Down down down. Sadly the infection has spread so far that even if you find the brand you want elsewhere its likely going to be if less quality because very few manufacturers can ignore the box store sales.

It'll be a long time before we see a return in quality and my bet is never.

I've been in the home building business for the last 20+ years and you see it on a minute by minute basis. It's been obvious from day one but you can't fight the average consumers addiction.
It's just too powerful.

[Erik Loza]

....but don't take it for granted that the management at the store you are vacating understands why you are taking your business elsewhere.... The odds are that neither the department manager nor even the store manager can change which products they can order....

This ^^^...

In my previous life, I was in retail management with PETCO (the big-box pet supply store that competes with Petsmart..) for many years. Nobody at the store has any control over the product assortment. That is all handled at the corporate level, between the buyers and the vendors. Honestly, you are just wasting your time by complaining to store management about the quality of this or that product or why they may have stopped selling a certain brand. This is not to be cynical, just honest. If the store does not have what you want or dropped a quality brand in favor of a cheap one, rather than speak to anybody there, I would email the corporate office and explain your feelings. That has a greater chance of reaching someone in authority.

Just my 2-cents as always,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Myk Rian]

I would email the corporate office and explain your feelings. That has a greater chance of reaching someone in authority.

I did that when HD got rid of the Jorgensen clamps in favor of Chinese Irwin. I did get 2 responses back, but it was like they didn't give a rats a**.

[Kent A Bathurst]

When you are talking about a huge retailer that has large 4-color ads in the Sunday supplement touting low prices in competition with the other huge retailer in the same category, the results in terms of quality v price are predictable.

[Stephen Cherry]

I only use the 3m blue tape. Life is too short to mess with the other stuff.

[Jim Neeley]

I did that when HD got rid of the Jorgensen clamps in favor of Chinese Irwin. I did get 2 responses back, but it was like they didn't give a rats a**.

At least that's honesty in advertising, Myk! <g>

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Don't any of you guys still have local tool stores? I'm lucky maybe... Seriously great service. I've found that they often don't have the exact tool I thought I wanted, but what they carry is the version of it that the pros use. No gimmicky crap, just good honest tools at a fair price. I had a Milwaukee sawzall that I bought elsewhere, that they warrantied for me, so I bought two more saws. Great service, but off subject.

Lowes, it's not just the tools that are slipping, their hardware and building materials seem to be decreasing in quality too. Guess they all are come to think of it.

[John TenEyck]

You can find most any quality level you want, and are willing to pay for, but you aren't going to find anything but the bottom half, at best, at the BORG's. The average American consumer just isn't interested in quality, many wouldn't know it if it hit them in the face. Price is king. People change jobs and houses so fast why would/should they worry whether the faucet they are looking at will last 5 years or 25? So if you want and are willing to pay for high quality you have to shop elsewhere. You wouldn't go to Mickey D's looking for fine dining. Same thing if you want high end tools or materials. Go where they are still sold. Talk to high end cabinet shops and builders to see where they buy from. Etc.

John

[Mark Bolton]

John,
The problem is seen more so in less than optimal markets. I am in WV where other than a handful of places the big boxes were it. After the downturn, they ARE it. We still use local yards almost exclusively and all our shop materials are from wholesale suppliers but much of the material we get from local yards (fasteners, sundries) are the exact items sold at the boxes because there is simply no other distribution. Metropolitan area this would be different however "other sources" are simply not available in many rural areas.

I completely agree that the average consumer (and that means the vast majority here too) have simply given in to shopping at Walmart, lowes, hd, target, and so on.. They are digging their own (and my) graves while doing so.

I fought the fight for many many years. I feel it's too late and the rural model will soon overtake your handful of options in time. Good luck in your fight.

[Dave Lehnert]

Stores push private label products because if they can get you to try and like their product, You have to return to that retail store to buy again. Name brand products can be purchased at any place you happen to be in.

[John TenEyck]

The internet is everywhere. It's where I now buy most of my hardware.

John

[Dave Zellers]

The internet is everywhere. It's where I now buy most of my hardware.

John
Same here. If it was available locally, I'd buy it locally, but it's not. I wasted an entire afternoon recently trying to buy a good looking pair of 3" solid brass cabinet butt hinges. Finally gave up and went home and logged on to Amazon.

[Jeff Erbele]

While the disappointment is universal by craftsman, the fact is options are limited:

One can express your disappointment and request the store stock better quality, likely with no results. Should the store respond to your request, it isn't going to happen fast.
Lower your expectations and standards, buying what they sell; or
Find another supplier who provides what you desire.

[fRED mCnEILL]

I would like to share my experience with buying hardware at HD. I am building a new fence and will attach the boards with lag bolts. The lumberyard wanted 55 cents each, the HD want 1.09 each and my local hardware distributor charged me 20 cents. Now granted I bought a box of 300 so you might expect a difference. However the other day my daughter wanted some galvanzied carriager bolts so she naively went to HD and bought 5 x 9 inch 1/2 inch carriage bolts (4.69 each) and 5 x5 inch ones(2.69) So for 10 bolts with nuts she paid $45. She mentioned to me that she was surprised at how expensive they were. So I went to the local hardware dist. and the same thing cost $10. And the kicker-the guy at the hardware store told me he buys those bolts from the same outfit as HD. So on the one hand HD is grossly over priced but on the other hand they have no service.

[Harold Lanfear]

The local Lowes' lumber is so bad, I can't use it. Plywood, even much of the Birch and Oak, has voids and is seriously warped. A new locally-owned store is opening nearby and I suspect it will send a painful message to the local management. When I do go to Lowes, I no longer use the local store, preferring to drive 15 miles to another store with very helpful and nice people - unlike the local store. I've complained at the local and corporate levels, but not much has changed. Will I miss Lowes ? NOPE!

[Bob Reda]

What a big part of the problem is, is that local retailers do not want to change. I've been saying this for 20 years. While lifestyles have changed, both husband and wife now work, the local retailers didn't, they are still open 9-5. So, when both get home from work, eat and need to get something, where do they go? You got it. Most local lumber stores (which by the way I get mine) close at 4 everyday and open from 9-noon on Sat. So if I need something at say 2pm, where am I going. There is also a misconception that the box stores are cheaper. They are not, I buy #2 Pine at my local store for 1/2 the price at Lowes and it is a better quality. My local lowes still carries some porter cable stuff but I found out when I brought one sander to my tool fixer upper, that porter cable makes them for lowes at lowes requirements. You would fine a better made porter cable product someone where else. We got ourselves in this mess and will take a long time and a lot of commitment to fix it

[Joe Leigh]

The problem as I see it is that there aren't enough people that know the difference. 95% of the people who shop at Lowes have no idea what quality is, so it's just business as usual for them.

[Ellen Benkin]

I spend my summers in Midcoast Maine and my comments refer to that location and not to Los Angeles. Store service depends on the store management and the attitude of the workers. I have gotten great service and lots of helpful advice at HD, Lowes, and my "local" hardware store in Maine. The "local" store is an Ace Hardware store so it is also in large part controlled by a corporation and not locally. I agree that the products they carry are a function of corporate management and not local choices. That is why I shop around when looking for something of a certain quality. Using the internet and then going to the store saves lots of driving time. I think Lowes has much more informative signage than the other stores, though.

[Denny Rice]

Same here. If it was available locally, I'd buy it locally, but it's not. I wasted an entire afternoon recently trying to buy a good looking pair of 3" solid brass cabinet butt hinges. Finally gave up and went home and logged on to Amazon.
+1 Dave and John. I have given up buying quality in my hometown and going place to place searching for what I am looking for at 3.50 a gallon. Its so much easier to fire up computer go to Amazon.com and buy what I want in less than 5 minutes, and the best part its delievered to my front door.
Denny

[Cary Falk]

What a big part of the problem is, is that local retailers do not want to change. I've been saying this for 20 years. While lifestyles have changed, both husband and wife now work, the local retailers didn't, they are still open 9-5. So, when both get home from work, eat and need to get something, where do they go? You got it. Most local lumber stores (which by the way I get mine) close at 4 everyday and open from 9-noon on Sat. So if I need something at say 2pm, where am I going. There is also a misconception that the box stores are cheaper. They are not, I buy #2 Pine at my local store for 1/2 the price at Lowes and it is a better quality. My local lowes still carries some porter cable stuff but I found out when I brought one sander to my tool fixer upper, that porter cable makes them for lowes at lowes requirements. You would fine a better made porter cable product someone where else. We got ourselves in this mess and will take a long time and a lot of commitment to fix it

I agree. The big box stores are almost always open. They also take almost anything back. You can't return anything at my local lumber yard without a hassle and a 15% restocking fee. Yes, I could plan better but when you are in the middle of a plumbing or electrical job that you want to finish before midnight, you tend to buy everything that you possibly might need and return the rest later. There is nothing worse then finding out that you chose A when you need B and now you have to wait a week to get back to the job. I am paying extra for longer business hours and a no hassle return policy.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Every day, Lowes becomes more like Harbor Freight...

[Erik Christensen]

Listening to consumers complain about retailers is akin to listening to citizens gripe about politicians. The BORG's are a business - they exist solely to make money; not to stock cool tools/materials that us sophisticates want but they lose money selling. They constantly experiment with store inventory to find the product mix that maximizes each individual store profit; if it loses money it gets dumped & if margins are > average they stock more. They respond to what sells - nothing else matters. Try comparing the stock in the same retailer but in different socioeconomic areas - you will be surprised at the diversity. Ding them all you want, but one thing they know for sure - in THIS location this inventory is what sells at a profit. The best example of that is the accelerating trend to private brands - all driven by us customers "showrooming". Use them to touch/feel/test the product then go home to order it online and save 10% & the only way they can put an end to that is carry things no-one else has even if they are all made in the same factory as the 'name' brands.

you may think you are just buying 'stuff' but in fact every day you vote with your $$ for retailers you want to remain in business and also what products you want them to carry. we all (or even a large %) shop at amazon and one day we will awake to find that is the only retailer that is left alive.

free country - not putting anybody down for their personal purchasing decisions but for the most part I tend to shop locally and save the internet for things that are not reasonably available nearby.

now that we have trashed the BORG's can we talk about those clownz in DC? :D

[Roy Turbett]

I have noticed that Lowes is replacing some of the major name brand stuff (masking tape, roller covers, cabinet hardware,etc) with brands I have not heard of..i.e. Blue Hawk, Gate House. I perceive this to be moving to lower quality products or is it just my perception? What are your thoughts??

I needed a roller cover and could not find a Purdy but Blue Hawk was everywhere. They still had Purdy brushes but not roller covers except for the small ones (4" and 6" in the small diameter). I have not been a fan of Home Depot because of how they treat their suppliers and their forced self check out but am finding myself going there more often now and they are further from me than Lowes.

George

Sherwin Williams recently bought Purdy and that is the reason you can't find their roller covers in the big box stores anymore. I used to buy mine at Home Depot.

[Alan Sweet]

Erik... When I lived in Phoenix, I had a contract with PetSmart. It was at their home office and with their inventory management people. In general, you are absolutely correct about most big boxes. Almost all inventory is managed at home offices these days. History is kept and trends mapped. Actual customer preferences is only a small part of the profit line. If the profit forecasts are favorable for a product replacement; it is done. The upper management feel that profit is more important than customer satisfaction. Remember, the real driving force is share holder satisfaction; not customer satisfaction. And sometimes, those two diverge.

[Denny Rice]

I have noticed the same thing at Lowes with Bosch tools and router bits. I like Bosch tools and the quality but I find more and more of them disappearing.

[Aleks Hunter]

You are absolutely correct. It is part of the great corporatocratic race to the bottom. In the never ending quest to offer the lowest costs, they capitalize on peoples lack of understanding that cost and price are two entirely different concepts, like price and value or price and worth. The masses have proven again and again that they are suckers for a low price tag. Look at the success of the HF company. While they do offer a few items which actually are good value (dust collectors and light duty bar clamps for instance) It cannot be argued that the overall quality of their tools made them a success. I've succumbed tot he dark side, like most, and quickly learned a valuable lesson to look for a big pile of positive user feedback before every purchasing anything from them. As long as companies are run by people with no real love for the products they are making, the suits in charge will be relentless on their assault on quality and service and value in favor of lower price point. The BORG via Emerson leveraged a well know well respected company that made plumbing tools, bought them out and started having Chinese factories crank out knock off power tools with the well respected name on them. Some of these tools are decent even quite good, but none will ever get the reputation the pipe wrench Quality of dimension lumber at big box stores has been declining somewhat over the years. It snot just building supplies. When was the last time you saw a 64 FL. OZ. half gallon of ice cream? Free checked baggage? Buy a cheap tool from a discount supplier, it may actually have a warrantee, but is it worth the gas money to return? They are betting no. And winning. Oh make sure you sign up for the rewards program, you know, so you can save money and be further inundated by ever more effective (psychology works) marketing.

[Roger Pozzi]

Lowes Product Quality
Perfect example of an oxymoron.

[Val Kosmider]

Just a couple of observations and a question:

Seems like most people shop on price, and not quality. I prefer to buy the very best quality I can find, take care of it as well as I can, and expect a lifetime of service from the item, which effectively lowers my 'cost'. I don't think your 'average' consumer works like that, and Lowes knows it.

The Big Box stores seem to give the impression that they compete on cost...or are at least price competitive. My experience, like in the lag bolt example above ( I buy mine in bulk at Tractor Supply and they are a fraction of the Lowers cost), is that they certainly offer no bargains, and are at the top of the price curve with many/most items.

And, my question: I think it is universally known that if you buy a Toro Mower or a John Deere lawn tractor at Lowes it is manufactured to a standard which is dictated by Lowes. It is of less rigid construction/lower quality than a similar item bought from a dedicated dealer.

Can the same be said for a Purdy Brush or a LG Refrigerator or a Weyerhaeuser sheet of plywood (we already know they 'cheat' by a 32nd on the thickness) or a Freud saw blade? Are these things sold under the 'name brand', but built to a lower standard to suit Lowes?

[John Schweikert]

Val,

Interesting comment you make about name brand products built to Lowes quality (lower quality). While I am not a lawyer, I would assume that is completely illegal in the U.S. to sell an item made by X company that is also available under the identical model number at dozens of other retailers, yet have that product built to lower standards to lessen cost at just one retailer. A product model is a product model and can't be put out into the world of retail in different specs due to the "cheapness" of the retailer without stating that it is a different model #. Consumer protection is in place there and fraud would be another concern as well. Now if a model of a product exists nowhere else so that Lowes has complete and total exclusivity, then it's possible that Lowes interjects their cost cutting desires into the manufacturing but I do not have that knowledge to claim as fact. If they choose to make an exclusive product to lower standards, sadly I do not think there is any law against that. It's just a shame that they might.

If I buy a Freud Diablo blade of a specific model at Lowes, that blade is the identical model through Amazon, HD, and endless other tool outlets. Only manufacturing errors would be cause to say otherwise. It is dangerous and libel to say that product companies who sell any specific product model across many outlets have inferior versions out in the wild unbeknownst to the consumer intentionally at the behest of the retailer itself.

One more thing that I feel is equally important to say is that while we have lots of laws to prevent cheats in the retail environment, we do not have any laws regarding the stupidity of the consumer. Due diligence as a consumer is necessary and if not heeded results in consumers who didn't have the wool pulled over their eyes, they just didn't use their brains to pay attention to the details.

[Val Kosmider]

John,

I think they change the model number slightly, but in all 'basic' charactersitics, the product is the same. 10" blade, with 'x' teeth per inch......add an "L" (for example) to the model number, and it 'looks the same', but might have slightly lower quality metal, or a slightly thinner kerf, or some characteristic which makes it cheaper and lower quality.

I know that the John Deere lawn tractors which they sell, for instance, might 'look' the same, generally, but they have stamped frames rather than welded frames. They sell them for much lower than the same/similar item at a JD dealer, but it is widely known that are not the same (as if the price difference didn't give it away).

When I shop for a saw blade, for instance, if I am looking for a 10" Freud blade with 12 teeth per inch, if that is what I see, that is what I buy. It could have a slightly different model number at Lowes, and be of lower quality, and that was my question: they (Lowes) do it with JD; do they do similar with Purdy or Freud or other 'names' brands which they carry?

I agree, same identical model has to be the same no kmatter where you buy it.

[Harry Hagan]

These days my emphasis is on how a product is made rather than who made it; with a preference toward American and Canadian manufacturers.

With a few exceptions—manufacturers formerly known for their quality products have become nothing more than peddlers of cheap foreign-made junk.

[Greg R Bradley]

Harry is right, many "brands" are using their reputation in order to sell junk. They are selling the perception of a good deal. Lowes and HD are frequently selling their own version of a product. It may be lower quality than the item that looks similar from the same manufacturer. It may just be different so they know they sold it for warranty and returns.

[John Schweikert]

Consumers are squarely to blame for "cheap foreign-made junk." Consumers constantly buy things that cost less, so companies make things that cost less and the cycle continues to spiral down. Consumers have all the power, if we don't buy something because it's crap, it goes away or a company makes the effort to provide higher quality goods or service.

My motto is "if it's crap, send it back." But how often are we too lazy to do that for smaller, low cost items. We just toss something in a drawer or closet and move on. That action doesn't tell the retailer or manufacturer the needed feedback. How often do we keep that large tool even though it has some flaws simply because it's a pain in the butt to return it. So we repair it ourselves or just live with it. I am as guilty as anyone else.

[Mark Bolton]

Consumers have all the power

This is getting to be less and less true though in all actuality. The crux of the problem now is that the big retailers control the offering for most of the average day to day purchases.

While online is easier than ever, the simple fact of the matter is the large chain stores, where most people shop daily, have worked hard to get to where they are now and that's having major control over what your even offered in the first place. If an item is popular but the margin isnt what they want, or it conflicts with one of their other lines, it will not even be offered to you. What you will be offered is not whats best, not what sells the best, not the best quality, you will be offered what makes them the most margin. And yes, the busy, lazy, consumer is ultimately responsible for buying it but it hasnt always been like that. Stores use to offer a variety of choices, name brands, off brands, cheap, expensive. Less the case now.

Of course you can get on line, do a bunch of research, order it, pay freight, deal with online returns, and so on (which I do a lot of), but the vast majority of the population doesnt have time to do that at a major level.

I would venture to guess the majority of people still do a relatively small percentage of their total shopping online. This leaves them in brick and mortar stores and with limited time. So while the item may not be exactly what they want, they need it, the store offers little to no selection, and so on. I dont think a lot of people go to a half a dozen or ten stores on a shopping day because this store has this item they like, and that store has that item, and so on. Those days are gone for the masses.

As you say, its ultimately the lazy consumer, but its also the fact that the home centers for instance, dont offer you a half a dozen choices anymore. You are lucky if your offered the store brand (more often than not junk) and a stripped down version of a commercial brand. Thats it. They control the offering.