PDA

View Full Version : Newbie to the forum- but not to engraving



Kev Williams
10-06-2013, 1:44 PM
I happened across Sawmill Creek while searching info on laser engravers, it was a nice surprise to find an online forum dedicated to engraving-

A little about myself (I'll try to keep it short :) ) - I'm 59 years old, and I engraved my first ID plate on my dads new Scripta 3D pantograph in 1966 before my 12th birthday. What started as a hobby became a full time in-home business for my parents around 1973. I helped out occasionally from then until early 1976, when I became a full time partner. Back then we had the original Scripta, a 1940's Gorton 3U deep throat panotmill dad picked up to engrave injection molds and such, and to make master templates with, and four New Hermes IRX-IV pantographs. Dads previous biz connections kept us busy with industrial oriented work, which was and still is our "niche". Trophies and awards are 'secondary'. Back then 90% of our work was engraving and painting computer keycaps. We were busy enough that me and my brother in law - who was and still is my only other engraver- we had IRX-IV's at our homes so we could keep caught up. Dad bought another Gorton, a P1-2 similar to his 3U. In 1981 we bought a New Hermes Concept 2000 computerized engraver, which turned out be so proficient that we bought another a year later. That second 2000 is the only machine my BIL has ever used. I bought and installed Fred Schwartz's Q1 C2000 upgrade kit, probably around 20 years ago. That machine has ran every working day since 1982 with no issues (knock on my head!) other than a motor or two, and a few spindles. Never changed a lead screw or nut (the Q1 versions), or any slide bearings, and it still engraves like new. Still have the first C2000, and a Q1 kit would bring it back to life too, but it's not needed. Anyway, life was good until the PC and Bill Gates eliminated the need for proprietary computers, and we about lost our shirts when the keycap orders quit. Fortunately I'd been learning to engrave metals, customers found us, and the need arose for a new machine, my first Vanguard 5000XT, bought in '89... To shorten this up (sorry!) The biz now consists of myself and my wife (dad passed, mom's in a rest home), and my BIL the subcontractor. What's stuffed in our 1200 sq. ft basement these days is the C2000, two 5000XT's (got a second used one about 12 years ago), a regular 5000, three Vanguard 3400's (one the cylinder model), an IS-400 point-n-shoot, a '97 vintage Optima (Universal) 25w laser, an '03 LS900 L-solution 40w laser, and one of the old IRX-IV pantographs. (The Gortons and Scripta are long gone)... Also, an older New Hermes-Graftec vinyl cutter, two NH cutter grinders, a NH safety saw, Craftsman 10" table saw, Craftsman radial arm saw, an OLD Delta Rockwell drill press, an old Dayton power hacksaw, and various other sanders & such. And next week my new-to-me IS7000 24x32 machine is coming, and will be set up in the garage.

I guess it's obvious I'm partial to New Hermes stuff! There's 2 reasons for that- The MAIN reason is, every NH machine we've ever owned was purchased from ONE place, and ONE guy (who shall remain nameless), who will come out at 3 am on xmas eve during a blizzard to help you if you need it. While New Hermes customer service may be lacking, HIS service so good it has no definition. And secondly, I hardy ever NEED his service, which really frustrates him since I never replace any equipment! In all these years, and all these machines, I've been able to maintain and repair every issue on every machine myself, and the issues have been extremely few and far between (knock on my head again!) My biggest one-time expense to repair a machine ever, was in June, I had to spent $1700 for a rebuilt power supply for the big laser. Call me lucky I guess!

That's my condensed life's story, and I'm sticking to it!

SO -- that all said, I look forward to sharing a few stories, getting and receiving a little advice, and finding out a few things I may not know about! (I've been averaging 18 hour workdays for a long time, so I don't get out much!)

Now back to what brought me here in the first place, searching for info on laser engravers! I'm in need of another one, and for the first time, I'm ready to look outside the New Hermes box. One of my jobs is building ski lift control panels. The bigger ones are a pain because my XT's aren't big enough to machine in one shot, hence the new IS7000 I'm getting. And the same issue applies for laser etching the text and graphics on them, the LS900 isn't large enough. Also, I have another customer who brings me 18 to 25" tall black anodized aluminum housings to be marked. Too tall for ALL my machines except the pantograph, which is how I do those now. In searching out lasers, the ONLY company I've found that has one large enough (to suit me) is Full Spectrum. Their big Pro LF machines are supposed to accommodate 24" tall items. However, I'm finding a lot of bad press about FS machines. Rabbit seems to have a much better reputation, their big laser has a plenty big table, but less vertical space (9-1/2") than my LS900... Hurricane has an impressive selection and a good rep, but their prices are higher. Their bigger unit has 15" of vertical space, better but wouldn't really help.

Those are pretty much it so far. Haven't looked at 'western' brands so much yet.

As for these chinese offerings, the FS is priced right, and is the only one with a tall enough vertical space that I'd like-- The big Rabbit at less than $9 bills is THEE best bang for the buck in a large machine, and would take care of my operator panels in fine fashion, but no help with my tall items, UNLESS there's a way to MAKE room? Hurricane, priced a little north of my current budget...

Anyone advice or recommendations on these or other large format lasers would be greatly appreciated!

(thanks for bearing with my mini-novel) :)

Dave Sheldrake
10-06-2013, 5:22 PM
Hiya Kev,

Have a look at G Weike machines (that's who both FS and Hurricane buy their machines from)


machines are supposed to accommodate 24" tall items

They are also claimed to accelerate fast enough to stop the initial spike on the laser fire up (even though that requires somewhere in the order of 10^6700 G to accomplish) or roughly 30 times the power output of the entire planets nuclear power stations have produced in total history.

You have pretty much answered your own questions really,

FSL : Potentially unreliable, dire customer support, questionable features

Hurricane: Above your required budget but great machines

Rabbit: In budget, great reputation, all features except height.

Everything else from China is a variation of that, there aren't actually very many Chinese manufacturers, lots of assemblers with different paint schemes but all the same basic machines and controllers.

Redsail, HX King Rabbit, G Weike (WK Laser), Shenhui and a couple of other minor ones is about all you get.

There is a US made laser that has all Chinese internals but with a gantry leg system that allows HUGE items to be sat under it, lemme see if I can find the guy that does them and post a link.

cheers

Dave

Kev Williams
10-07-2013, 1:20 PM
Thanks for the reply Dave!

While I wouldn't get the useable vertical distance I'd like with a Rabbit, it would fill all my other needs for a good price.

I've also been considering a fiber laser since I do a LOT of stainless and anodized aluminum. But not sure I like the results on SS- On the FS website is a video of their galvo fiber marking their logo on an SS electric cover, and I didn't like the results- it's very inconsistent with several areas of the marking missing. I couldn't sell that to anyone. Maybe the thing is capable of better?
272438

Dave Sheldrake
10-07-2013, 2:35 PM
Hiya Kev,

Ray @ Rabbit is a great guy, the HX machines he sells are top grade stuff :)

Galvo's are fantastic!

$20,000!! (coughs up a lung)

Search ebay for "20W/(10w optional ) Fiber Laser Engraver / Maker/Machine metal engraving/marking" same manufacturer and a complete unit!

Have a chat with Matty Knott on here, he's the man for Galvo information.

cheers

Dave

Dan Hintz
10-07-2013, 3:08 PM
Thanks for the reply Dave!

While I wouldn't get the useable vertical distance I'd like with a Rabbit, it would fill all my other needs for a good price.

I've also been considering a fiber laser since I do a LOT of stainless and anodized aluminum. But not sure I like the results on SS- On the FS website is a video of their galvo fiber marking their logo on an SS electric cover, and I didn't like the results- it's very inconsistent with several areas of the marking missing. I couldn't sell that to anyone. Maybe the thing is capable of better?
272438
Kev,

I would search for some of the threads (horror stories?) on here about FSL before spending more time looking at them...

Dave Sheldrake
10-07-2013, 3:12 PM
Kev,

I would search for some of the threads (horror stories?) on here about FSL before spending more time looking at them...

At risk of being out of line on the "Pile-on" rule I have to say Dan's spot on.(based on the amount of support mails I get each week due to *issues* with them)

cheers

Dave

matthew knott
10-07-2013, 6:16 PM
My guess is there is nothing 'wrong' with the FS fibre laser, they are just not using it right, to high a frequency and out of focus, they are trying for a annealed mark but its all going wrong, why you would want a video of that on your website is a mystery.
Also the system they are selling is pretty much as 'entry level' as you can get , just a labjack for height adjustment :( and $20k is top money for what i'm guessing is a chinese import you won't get much support on (i don't know)
On a side note fibres are great on stainless and aluminium, I have a company that designs and sells fiber markers (uk and fair-east only right now) I will PM you a link to some more information on laser markers and better photos so you can see what they can do.
Thanks
Matt

Dave Sheldrake
10-07-2013, 6:25 PM
(Hijack)

Can you send me a pricelist Matt, I keep getting asked about Galvo's and like the HaloCube very much

cheers

Dave

Kev Williams
10-08-2013, 6:27 PM
Those AP lasers look just fine & dandy! Probably a bit of overkill but if priced right I could probably find work for it! :)

Thanks for the info guys!

matthew knott
10-08-2013, 7:29 PM
I like the idea of the AP laser, but the top half, ie the business end looks exactly like my chinese shenui machine, is this just a modified chinese laser or something better?

Dave Sheldrake
10-08-2013, 8:49 PM
Modded Chinese Matt

cheers

Dave

matthew knott
10-09-2013, 3:59 AM
Yeap 99.99% sure it was , looks like a simple split between the top and bottom half, wonder if mine is welded or bolted together? I'm impressed with the photos on their website, they are doing some nice stuff will an el'cheapo laser , ours just cuts out jigs for about 3 hours a month !