Going shorter on TS fence rails

[Jeff Hallam]

Space is becoming to be rare in my shop and I keep eyeing the 50" rails and extension table on my TS as a potential area to improve on this. I rarely have to position the fence that far over and I'm starting to think I could just use a circ saw to get plywood closer to final size before the TS. Most of the time the extension table becomes my dumping ground for cutoffs.

Has anyone downsized from the 50" rails and regretted it later?

Jeff

[Jim Andrew]

Rather than cut the rails off, why don't you advertise trading for shorter ones? Most guys would rather go longer than shorter.

[Art Mann]

It is often possible to shift the rails to the left by using different mounting holes or drilling new ones. Doing it that way, you can restore the fence to its original position if space becomes available. It also provides more ripping capacity to the left of the blade, though I have never wanted to use the saw in that way.

[Bill Huber]

I would try and do as Jim suggested and trade them first.

Then if no luck I would cut them down, I have mine cut and moved to the left and I can only do 27" but that is no problem for me. I do all my sheet goods on the floor with a skill saw and find that 27" is just fine.

I think a lot depends on what you make most, if it is cabinet then you may want to really think about it but if it is not and you don't use that many sheet goods that is a different thing.

I have seen a few post on the Creek where guys were wanting to swap rails.

[Dave Cullen]

It would depend on how often you handle sheet goods or cutoff long boards. For the few times that I've used big pieces of plywood or MDF in projects it doesn't make sense for me to dedicate that much shop space. There always seems to be a way to improvise with saw horses, circular saw etc when the need arises.

[Rick Lizek]

The simple solution is to modify the extension like a drop leaf table so you have a short fence for the most of the time and can lift the wing up for the occasional wide rips. It's not complicated. Pre mount your hinges before you cut the table and rails and you will keep the accuracy of the fence. I've done on several saws for friends. It's the obvious solution but I've never seen it mentioned on the forums.

[Rick Potter]

Yes, I cut down my Unifence.
No, I have not regretted it.

It works for 90% of what I do. Pre-cutting plywood can be done with a skil saw and a home made guide.

Your needs may differ from mine.

Rick Potter

[Dick Brown]

I love Rick's idea of a drop down table. Best of two worlds with much less fooling around than cutting the rails and then moving them when you need that wide cut. I hear the skill saw guys and agree it is an option but if it happened very often, setting up horses, putting them away, and depending on the setup for a "table saw accurate cut" (chime in track saw guys) would give me even more interest in the drop down table. Cutting on the floor is an option but not at my age. Only down side I see is if the right side of your saw is against the wall or something you would need to move it out for putting up the extension. Would like to hear more from some who try the dropdown. Rick-- How about a picture or two of the actual hinge mounting on both front and back rails??? Also how you support the table in the up position. You may have started a whole new thing here. Dick

[Rick Lizek]

You put the hinges on the bottom of the table first. Providing the table is the lowest point. You could do the hinge on the rails but on a Biesemeyer the rails are different so you would have to put a shim on the back one to bring it to to the same level as the front rail. Far easier to work from a thicker table. Then you mark for your cuts. Take it apart and cut your rails and table then put it all back together. Add add a shim for the kerf you took away on the table. Put folding legs with levelers and you are done. Got pics some where but if you can't do this simple procedure perhaps another hobby is more suitable. It is the best of both worlds.

[Jeff Hallam]

That's a pretty good idea Rick. I do store things under my extension table but other than that it would be possible.

The swap for a shorter set of rails would probably be too complicated due to my location compared to Creekers in the US. Shipping charges are outrageous.

[Dave Zellers]

Most guys would rather go longer than shorter.
Master of the obvious.:)

I vote for shifting them to the left. Solves the problem and retains the option.

[keith micinski]

I would never give up my 52". Move them over for a little while and then see the three or 4 times you need to use them how terrible it is. More importantly what are you going to do with that 18-20 inches of space. have more walking room is about all I can think of. Unless it allows you to reconfigure or rotate your shop that space isnt going to help. Plus if you don't stack your cut offs there where will you stack them and then what happens to that space your now taking up.

[Robert Delhommer Sr]

For most of what I do I find my 25" or so adequate, A circular saw and good guides for cutting down sheet goods to a manageable size works well for me. :)

[keith micinski]

I still wonder what you do with the 20 inches next to your table saw even if 25-30 inches for your rails works for you.

[Cary Falk]

I went from 26" to 52" back to 33". I don't regret it but I also now have a track saw and a JessEm sliding table. I miss the table that accumulated stuff but I hated cleaning it off. I work out of my garage where the cars go in every night so everything is on wheels.

[Bill Huber]

I still wonder what you do with the 20 inches next to your table saw even if 25-30 inches for your rails works for you.

Keith, in a little shop every inch counts, if I had longer rails on my saw it would be hard for me to get my band saw out to use it. If I moved the saw any more to the left I could have to move it every time I used the sander.

272403

[Ron Kellison]

My 5-HP Unisaw came with 52" rails. I tried it that way for a couple of weeks. Despite the fact that I have a 2-car garage for a shop and the saw sits on a Delta mobile base it was just not going to work. I cut the Biese rails down to 32" and I've never looked back. It works for me. If I have to cut down a sheet of plywood I pull out a couple of sheets of pink foam, lay the plywood on it and cut it down to size with a circular saw. There are many ways to skin a cat...

Ron

[johnny means]

IMO, there is no Good reason to ever need your rip fence set at 52 inches. Show me someone using their fence this far out and I'll explain what they're doing wrong. And all the guys discounting how much difference 20" can make must all own airplane hangars.

[Peter Aeschliman]

IMO, there is no Good reason to ever need your rip fence set at 52 inches. Show me someone using their fence this far out and I'll explain what they're doing wrong. And all the guys discounting how much difference 20" can make must all own airplane hangars.

Agreed. I had 52" rails. Waste of money and space. I cut them down to 33" and it's still more than I need. Even when making cabinets, the widest rip cut you need is the depth of an average lower cabinet. I suspect that those making such wide cuts are actually attempting crosscuts, but unless you're starting with a perfectly square sheet, using the rip fence for a crosscut will result in an out-of-square workpiece. Crosscuts on sheet goods are best handled with a crosscut sled or a sliding table.

I suspect the rest of those using the rip fence at such a big setting are breaking sheets down for final cuts later. A circular saw and straight edge are much safer and easier for that task.

Thus, I vote for cutting your rails down. And for those who are considering springing for long rails, save the extra cash and put it toward a good circ saw or tracksaw, and build a good crosscut sled.. or get a sliding table attachment if you have the budget.

[Tom Ewell]

Space is becoming to be rare in my shop and I keep eyeing the 50" rails and extension table on my TS as a potential area to improve on this. I rarely have to position the fence that far over and I'm starting to think I could just use a circ saw to get plywood closer to final size before the TS. Most of the time the extension table becomes my dumping ground for cutoffs.

Has anyone downsized from the 50" rails and regretted it later?

Jeff

I might not be as space limited as you but I find the extension table invaluable for exactly as you say.... collecting cut offs but also stacking ripped stock, keeping push sticks handy and sometimes a drying 'rack' during finishing. The surface can collect stuff but it can also work as another station for say pocket drilling, as long as what I use it for does not interfere with the business side of the fence I'm good to go. Prepping for the rare wide rip only takes a few to clean off the surface and full support for these rips is enjoyed.

I keep my shop vac stationed below the extension table for those quicky cleanups between setups but a mobile storage unit, a trashcan or any other manner of utilization the space can be had.

[Chris Parks]

Yes, I have just done it, I bought some 50 x 50 RHS and two lengths of angle iron. Make sure you buy the RHS with adequate wall thickness if you want to put threads in it, other than that it is straight forward except I have yet to put the measuring tape on and that could be a bit tricky.

[Frank Martin]

When I had my Unisaw I did cut the rails from 52" down to 32". Never even needed the full 32". I used Festool saw with a rail for all larger cuts.

[Mike Wilkins]

If you have the Biesemeyer-type fence, you could just go to the local metal supplier and get rectangular tubing in the same size. You could have them cut it off to whatever length you want, slap a coat of suitable paint on it, get a stick-on tape, and Bob's your uncle. You would still have the original fence rail when you build your massive dream shop, or change your mind and go back to the original fence.

[Brian Kincaid]

depending on the setup for a "table saw accurate cut" (chime in track saw guys) would give me even more interest in the drop down table. Cutting on the floor is an option but not at my age.

since you asked :)

A track saw table doesn't need material infeed and outfeed like a table saw so there is a nice space savings. I use an old camera tripod for offcut support when cutting sheets that I can tuck away when doing other functions. The accuracy of the cut is mostly determined by your track placement. I think you need a fence or repeater system for rips and a square for crosscuts. I worked these features into my track saw table setup. Other folks are happy with cutting to pencil marks.

Hope this is helpful. (btw no table saw in my shop)

-Brian

[Bill Space]

IMO, there is no Good reason to ever need your rip fence set at 52 inches. Show me someone using their fence this far out and I'll explain what they're doing wrong. And all the guys discounting how much difference 20" can make must all own airplane hangars.

I don't have a picture handy, but since I have a router table built in on the right side of my table saw, having the 52 inch fence is priceless in my case. And I don't think I am doing anything wrong! :) I use my unifence for both the table saw AND the router table. I clamp a dust collector/guide to the fence rail when using the router and it works great for me. I would NEVER cut my fence rail shorter for my application.

That being said, I really don't need that width for cutting with the table saw. I generally crosscut long boards with my radial arm saw(s)...and man handling 4x8 sheets of plywood for cutting on the table saw is not my cup of tea anymore.

Bill

[Michael W. Clark]

I have 27" rip capacity to the right and have wanted more on numerous ocasions. If you don't have the rip capacity, it would still be advantageous to have the clearance to the right for cross cuts.

[Garth Almgren]

This is a really timely discussion - I just bought an Excalibur fence with 78" rails, and I really don't have room for that much rail. I like the idea of cutting them down and hinging it somehow so that I can still use the full length if I have to, but I'm wary of cutting the rails since they're extruded aluminum and aren't being made anymore...

[Dave Anthony]

I bought a saw with 36" rails specifically because I work out of a 2 car garage and 52" rails would just be in the way. I also cut the rails on the left to make room for a sliding table, even though I could have shifted the rails to the right. Real estate is precious in my shop, and the limitations vastly outweigh the occasional convenience of longer rails. I can remember only one time when I wished I had longer rails (cutting plywood for the back of a large entertainment unit). As many have said, a lot depends on personal preference and the type of work you do.

[Dick Brown]

Jeff, Here is another way to do it if you are handy with the welder. Built another sliding rail one after this but have no pictures. This one needed some milling where the later one didn't and I used the original Biese. rail on it. Loosen two hand wheels, slide over 20", tighten and you are ready to cut. Reverse and you have your room back. P.M. with a mailing address if you want more info and a poor sketch. Dick http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?192704-32-quot-to-50-quot-Adjustable-Biesemeyer-Clone&highlight=

[Keith Weber]

If you have the Biesemeyer-type fence, you could just go to the local metal supplier and get rectangular tubing in the same size. You could have them cut it off to whatever length you want, slap a coat of suitable paint on it, get a stick-on tape, and Bob's your uncle. You would still have the original fence rail when you build your massive dream shop, or change your mind and go back to the original fence.

Why not just cut the rails and then you could always do the metal supplier/tubing thing if or when the time ever comes that you want longer rails? That would be a lot cheaper, quicker and easier in the short term -- and save you the space of storing the extra rails.

Also, a couple of people have suggested trading for shorter rails. Cutting your rails is quick and easy. Trading them means going through hassle of finding someone, meeting them, or time/money spent shipping the rails, dealing with holes that don't align, etc.

[Derek Arita]

I too, ran out of space and had to downsize my PM2000. I went to the 30" rails and cut down my extension, keeping the router lift in it. I kept the 50" rails just in case. Processing my sheet goods always begins with my Festool rails, then from there, I'll use the table saw as needed. Festool rails and table really has changed the way I break down sheets, but I still use the table saw too. I don't think I could work in my small shop without both...or at least it wouldn't be as much fun.

[keith micinski]

What if I want to cut a leg 36 inches long. I would take my unifence and slide it over and then get out my mitre gauge and cut repeatable accurate legs safely and easily. What if I want to cut a piece of sheet goods 48" long? Sure I could drag out some sort of circular saw, something to set it on, clear off enough space to set all of this stuff since the premise is that we are operating in a small shop with no space, somehow try and mark multiple pieces accurately and then set up what ever straight edge I'm using accurately with the line and then cut the sheet good. Conversely I can just set my fence that is the most accurate thing in my shop and easily cut the sheet good repeatable and accurately and safer then crawling around on my floor with a circular saw trying to follow a straight edge. I read a lot of people trying to claim cutting sheet goods on a table saw is somehow unsafe or no good and the only conclusion I can come to is they read that somewhere and have never actually tried it. I have cut hundreds of sheet goods any where from 1/4 to 3/4 and would never consider using anything else to do so. Also track saw guy will tell you how accurately they can measure, then mark,then cut pieces but there is a reason every accurate tool in the world uses stops. 20 inches by 27 inches in a shop does make a small difference but when it is directly located next to your table saw it's not as valuable as it could be. I have a 15 by 24 shop and have a jointer, a planer, a bandsaw, a 12" scms, another radial arm saw I don't use, another belsaw jointer planer I don't use, a table saw with a 52" side table with router built in and a 4x6 out feed table, another portable table for another dealt table saw, a 10 foot by 30 inch bench, a drill press and a mortise machine. I wouldn't consider that an airplane hanger considering it's basically a one car garage and have never once thought, man I wish I had that 20 inches next to my table saw, just my view from using both a 52 and a 32 fence.

[Curt Harms]

I still wonder what you do with the 20 inches next to your table saw even if 25-30 inches for your rails works for you.

I can't speak for others but I put a 12" jointer/Planer there :). Everything is on wheels. I have 27" right of the blade and that has worked out well, most of my panel work is 24" or less. Any enthusiasm I'd felt for humping 4 X 8 sheets by myself has long since departed. Saw guides or track saws and a table a few inches lower than a pickup bed fit my routine just fine.

[Matthew Hills]

I'm happy with the 36" rails on my saw.
This is a good size for my compact shop (1/2 of 2-car garage).
I have my bandsdaw tucked in to the extension table area.
This gives me ~20" of rip capacity unless I roll the saw out.

As others mentioned, any large sheet goods get cut with track saw on the ground.

Matt

[Jeff Hallam]

My tablesaw isn't against a wall, its central in my shop. So if I shortened the rails I would gain a walkway that I don't have to squeeze through and possibly more storage space.

[Jeff Hallam]

Neat solution, but alas I am not handy with a welder (nor do I own one). I'm leaning to just cutting the tubes off for now.

[Chris Parks]

There is no welding required if you buy replacement material. It is all common sizes and nothing special. Drill a few holes and bolt it on.

[Michael Dunn]

IMO, there is no Good reason to ever need your rip fence set at 52 inches. Show me someone using their fence this far out and I'll explain what they're doing wrong. And all the guys discounting how much difference 20" can make must all own airplane hangars.

I certainly wouldn't go that far by saying that. I use my Festool TS-75 all the time. I've found myself breaking down a 4'x8' sheet and then to my Steel City 10" TS to rip at 48" several times.

Ultimately, as others have said each shop and WWer is different and has their own needs. I now finally have the space to justify the 52" rails. Prior to that I had my 52" Bies rails in my 2 car garage. It was cramped and tight. My kids smashed their heads on it, I bumped my groin into it, but I personally would never cut my rails. Heck, now I have 2 10" TS' with 52" rails. I'm loving every minute of it.