Problems With My Lee Valley MKII. ETA On New Honing Guide From Lie Nielsen?

[Stew Hagerty]

Hey all...

I have had a Lee Valley MKII guide for some time now, and while it works ok for plane blades, I've found that I don't really care for using it with chisels. And the narrower the chisel, the worse it is. The over & under clamping just won't hold them straight. I certainly don't want a skewed edge On occasion, I have actually even noticed some skewing happening with plane blades unless I'm very careful. I try to clamp the bar down tighter but it just bends.

Am I doing something wrong? Do I just have a bad one? I know the MKII is really popular, but it just doesn't seem to be working right for me. (Jump in here any time Rob :confused:).

When I was at Handworks the Lie Nielsen rep told me that they had a new honing guide in the works. Has anyone heard any updates on it?

I need a new guide.

I am trying out the current one sold by Lie Nielsen, T4WW, et al. It works fairly well on most chisels & plane blades, but it will not hold my big mortise chisels, and I just feel like it could be better. The rep said that the new one would be a big improvement.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I stuck a piece of high friction tape to the inside of the jaws of my MKII guide, it helps a lot. but I agree it is not ideal. I like the MKII because it consistently set ANY angle you want, so I use it for odd ball things. I tend to prefer to set up my tools for free handing - hollow grind or single bevel.


I think you can modify the cheap LN one to work better with chisels, it's soft and easy to file. I haven't done that yet but I use a piece of wood the fill the gap in the upper jaw to hold narrower blades.

[Andrae Covington]

I agree narrow chisels can be a challenge with the MKII. Especially, I have some Ashley Iles roundbacks and so there is only a narrow line of contact with the guide on top. I really crank the knobs tight. Also, try to make sure one side isn't cranked down more than the other, that can cause the chisel to slip out towards the side that's more open. It's important to really make sure the chisel is centered in the guide as well. These are the kinds of fussy fiddling activities that make freehand sharpeners roll their eyes. I've also found that putting a lot of pressure while working on the stones can cause narrow chisels to skew, so I try to back off, which is better for my diamond stones anyway.

I also have one of the generic Eclipse-knockoff side-clamping guides, but I have some trouble getting it to hold on to paring chisels with very narrow sides. Neither guide is particularly friendly with my Ray Iles mortise chisels; sometimes I use the Eclipse-style guide, sometimes I freehand them.

Matthew's suggestion of high-friction tape sounds like a good idea.

[Mike Henderson]

I agree that the LV honing guide doesn't work well with narrow chisels and have complained to LV about it. I don't have any suggestions beyond what others have said. Mostly I just try to be very careful when sharpening narrow chisels. It works but is a pain to use with them.

I wish LV would come up with a better design for narrow chisels, even if it was a product which only worked with narrow chisels. Maybe something with a long side that you could register the chisel against and which would remain there while sharpening. Maybe an add on to the existing product - the adapter could clamp to the existing frame in some manner.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Almost every product brought to market will have limitations. It is beyond my imagination that one guide could work with the array of chisel styles in my shop. My accumulation is not all that vast, many styles are not represented.

In the world of honing guides even free hands have their limitations.

In my experience with guides is my using too much pressure or working harder than the guide was intended to work.

jtk

[steven c newman]

I have been using the older MKI since it came out. Main complaint I have is some plane blades are way too wide for it. Like a #6,7, or even the biggie #8 wide body one. One chisel has a problem with it, but that is the chisel's fault, not the guide's. A VanCamp framer chisel has a top section shaped like a triangle. Might need to and a groove thing to get it to hold steady...

[paul cottingham]

I just use an eclipse guide with a jig for setting the blades like the one that lie-Nielsen has a plan for on their website. Simple, easy to use, and cheap.

[Bruce Haugen]

I use the MK II only for plane blades. Chisels get ground to the proper angle and honed freehand. It's easy to register the bevel on the stone.

[David Weaver]

Freehand on anything that doesn't fit in the guide or work well with it is a good way to get to freehand in general.

LN will probably come out with a guide. But I recall a discussion 4 or 5 years ago where their guide was supposedly coming out soon.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I have often wanted to try one of these for honing chisels. It makes the most sense to me. http://www.garrettwade.com/product.asp?pn=62J02.12&&SID=W4011000&EID=W4011001&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=ProductAds&utm_campaign=Google1&cvsfa=3928&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=36324a30322e3134&gclid=CLK0hdLggLoCFWpp7Aod6iMAOQ

[Ralph Boumenot]

Deneb showed me the prototype honing guide 2 years ago and I signed up for one. I've asked about it 3 times - he answered two of them with "waiting on a machine" and I never got a reply for the 3rd one.

[Ray Bohn]

I have often wanted to try one of these for honing chisels. It makes the most sense to me. http://www.garrettwade.com/product.asp?pn=62J02.12&&SID=W4011000&EID=W4011001&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=ProductAds&utm_campaign=Google1&cvsfa=3928&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=36324a30322e3134&gclid=CLK0hdLggLoCFWpp7Aod6iMAOQ

I bought the small and the large one some time ago when I was using the Scary Sharp method with sandpaper, etc. Now that I have switched to waterstones, a 2" plane blade places the outrigger wheels partly off the edges of a 3" stone. For now I am using a modified Eclipse type for plane blades and use the small Kell for chisels.

I like the Kells so much that I may make some sort of jig for my stones that will allow the wheels to ride alongside the stone.

[glenn bradley]

I've had the Kell for sometime and find it perfect for very short or narrow cutters. The low center provides stability on hard to controls widths or shapes.

[Stew Hagerty]

I have often wanted to try one of these for honing chisels. It makes the most sense to me. http://www.garrettwade.com/product.asp?pn=62J02.12&&SID=W4011000&EID=W4011001&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=ProductAds&utm_campaign=Google1&cvsfa=3928&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=36324a30322e3134&gclid=CLK0hdLggLoCFWpp7Aod6iMAOQ


I bought the small and the large one some time ago when I was using the Scary Sharp method with sandpaper, etc. Now that I have switched to waterstones, a 2" plane blade places the outrigger wheels partly off the edges of a 3" stone. For now I am using a modified Eclipse type for plane blades and use the small Kell for chisels.

I like the Kells so much that I may make some sort of jig for my stones that will allow the wheels to ride alongside the stone.


I've had the Kell for sometime and find it perfect for very short or narrow cutters. The low center provides stability on hard to controls widths or shapes.

I saw those. I think it was on T4WW's website. I hadn't looked at Garret Wade. There is the width limitation; my Arkansas and India stones are all 3" wide, but I only really want it for my chisels. How does it work for Mortise Chisels? Does it still work OK with their extra thickness?

[Stew Hagerty]

I stuck a piece of high friction tape to the inside of the jaws of my MKII guide, it helps a lot. but I agree it is not ideal. I like the MKII because it consistently set ANY angle you want, so I use it for odd ball things. I tend to prefer to set up my tools for free handing - hollow grind or single bevel.


I think you can modify the cheap LN one to work better with chisels, it's soft and easy to file. I haven't done that yet but I use a piece of wood the fill the gap in the upper jaw to hold narrower blades.

I hadn't thought of adding something like you did with the tape. I have a bunch of left over small pieces of thin(ish) leather stuffed away from a project I did a while ago. I could try adhearing it to at least one side of the jig. Leather linings sure help my face vise grip things tighter. Did you do both jaws?

[Stew Hagerty]

Deneb showed me the prototype honing guide 2 years ago and I signed up for one. I've asked about it 3 times - he answered two of them with "waiting on a machine" and I never got a reply for the 3rd one.

Ah... So it's going to be one of those kind of "we'll be coming out with a new design real soon" tools. I hate that kind of tool! It's really pretty simple. You just design it so you can make it with what you've got. Then you make it.

[Mark Dorman]

In my experience with guides is my using too much pressure or working harder than the guide was intended to work.

jtk

+1 That is exactly what I learned about guides (as in MKII). Once you realize that, you are gaining understanding about use this for that and free hand for this etc.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I bought the small and the large one some time ago when I was using the Scary Sharp method with sandpaper, etc. Now that I have switched to waterstones, a 2" plane blade places the outrigger wheels partly off the edges of a 3" stone. For now I am using a modified Eclipse type for plane blades and use the small Kell for chisels.

I like the Kells so much that I may make some sort of jig for my stones that will allow the wheels to ride alongside the stone.

I did not consider the width, but I have the Veritas MKII for irons. I use a Pinnacle contraption for chisels now. It's just a bit complicated, but works well. The Kell would be much simpler and I would use it just for chisels. Looks like it would work well with mortice chisels as well as bevel edged. I like the PDF that gives the distances to set for various angles. http://www.garrettwade.com/images/art/62J0212.pdf

[Kees Heiden]

Being fed up with the jig is THE perfect opportunity to start learning freehand sharpening. It's not very difficult, just needs some dedicated practice. It is a very usefull skill you will need anyway as soon as you want to sharpen other tools like gouges, drawknifes, router plane blades etc etc.

Here is a very good article to learn you this basic skill: http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/

[Prashun Patel]

I am an mkii user and i experienced your initial frustration.

You have to tighten the knobs fairly evenly. Tighten them alternately a half twist at a time. Dont be tempted to over tighten. Instead just dont push as hard when you flip it over and sharpen. Use a coarser grit rather than higher pressure.

with narrow blades, the nuts have way more leverage than on wider blades, so the risk of racking is increased. Once i started thinking of that guide as a vise, i understood it better.

freehand sharpening is my holy grail, but your issues with the mkii are surmountable.

[Rob Lee]

Hi,

Just a quick note to say we'll have a MkII body (side clamping) out for chisels in the new year. Tooling is in process right now.

Cheers,

Rob

[Roy Lindberry]

I used to use the Veritas Sharpening System, but had the same issues. So I decided to freehand, and I've never looked back.

[Mike Henderson]

Hi,

Just a quick note to say we'll have a MkII body (side clamping) out for chisels in the new year. Tooling is in process right now.

Cheers,

Rob
I'll be looking for that. Using the existing guide with narrow chisels has been a frustration for me for a long time.

Mike

[Rob Luter]

I just added a thin later of adhesive backed cork to the clamp side. It improved matters a great deal. Narrow chisels still require your undivided attention to keep them straight, but it's not too bad if you're careful.

[Stew Hagerty]

Hi,

Just a quick note to say we'll have a MkII body (side clamping) out for chisels in the new year. Tooling is in process right now.

Cheers,

Rob

We'll alright!!! Save me one Rob. Oh, and I could use a new upper clamping bar. Mine has developed a bit of curvature.

[Stew Hagerty]

Being fed up with the jig is THE perfect opportunity to start learning freehand sharpening. It's not very difficult, just needs some dedicated practice. It is a very usefull skill you will need anyway as soon as you want to sharpen other tools like gouges, drawknifes, router plane blades etc etc.

Here is a very good article to learn you this basic skill: http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/

Freehand sharpening does sound good, but I am physically unable to do it.

I have something called Transverse Myelitis and , in addition to being in a wheelchair, my right arm and hand are much weaker than my left side (even though I'm right handed), and I don't have the fine motor control in it that I once did. Oh, and it tends to shake sometimes.

I'm also not much good at carving.

But I have learned that there are a lot of things that I CAN do. And that is what I concentrate on. Woodworking keeps me from going stark raving nuts. Now I just need some sharp blades.

[paul cottingham]

Freehand sharpening does sound good, but I am physically unable to do it.

I have something called Transverse Myelitis and , in addition to being in a wheelchair, my right arm and hand are much weaker than my left side (even though I'm right handed), and I don't have the fine motor control in it that I once did. Oh, and it tends to shake sometimes.

I'm also not much good at carving.

But I have learned that there are a lot of things that I CAN do. And that is what I concentrate on. Woodworking keeps me from going stark raving nuts. Now I just need some sharp blades.
I am in a similar situation. I use power to develope the primary bevel, and for the initial honing. I use an eclipse guide to polish the bevel on an 8000 or so. It works very well.

[Kees Heiden]

I didn't know that Stew! Then you have a very good reason to use a jig! I would advice to buy the cheap Eclipse style jig. They work a lot better then the LV anyway.

[Stew Hagerty]

I didn't know that Stew! Then you have a very good reason to use a jig! I would advice to buy the cheap Eclipse style jig. They work a lot better then the LV anyway.

I have both of them already. Their deficiencies is this thread is all about.

[Stew Hagerty]

I had sent an email to Richard Hummel (Woodpeckers) telling him that he was just the guy to "Invent a better mousetrap".

Here is his reply:

"Stew,
Thanks for taking the time to make this suggestion. I finished a new Honing Guide about 3 years ago, before OTT’s got started. The first iteration didn’t work as well as I would have liked but it looked real cool. It’s literally been sitting on my desk ever since. I guess I should get back at it.

Richard Hummel
Woodpeckers Inc"

In case you're not familiar, OTT is Woodpeckers One Time Tool program. They develop a special tool and offer it up for pre-orders. Then they make that many of them, and send them out 3 or 4 months later.

[Steve Friedman]

I called Lie-Nielsen to order something around a week ago and asked about ETA for the new guide. I was told November, but I might wait to see what the new Veritas guide looks like.

Steve