Moxon Vise tips?

[Bruce MANNING]

As I do a lot of joinery by hand I am going to build a Moxon Vise to take some pressure off my back using the Benchcrafted kit. Anybody have any suggestions about this? I was thinking to make it smaller than the Benchcrafted suggestion as I don't do too much big casework but will I regret this later? I saw somewhere that Chris Schwartz has chamfered the moving jaw on his vise to make it easier to saw blind dovetails closer to the jaws - does that seem a good idea? Any other suggestions or ideas to improve the Benchcrafted plans? http://www.benchcrafted.com

[Don Dorn]

When that kit first came out, I recall one person doing a video in which he used three holes. In one setting he offset one of the wheels about 6" to 8" from one end and had normal placement of the other. He then had less distance between the wheels as you indicate, but had that 6 - 8 on one end that he used for smaller work and the ability to slide work out from one end. If he did choose large to do large casework, he put the offset wheel in the hole in the 6" to 8" area which caused it to have normal placement of both wheels and gave him the full 24" between wheels. Clear as mud? That said, I sold my kit as it just used too much bench real estate not leaving me enough room for chopping and paring. I now use a little jig and my face vise for the rare event of larger case work - it works perfectly.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Couple of thoughts;

1. You could think about building a dedicated joinery bench using the BC hardware. Shannon Rogers over at the Hand Tool School did just this and he maintains it works well for any bench work apart from planing.

2. Derek Cohen is vehemently against the chamfered jaw and has other cool ideas like a bench stool for propping up a board behind the vise when marking out the other cuts.

3. There was a recent thread (this week) about a simple Moxon vise that was built with wooden handscrews. It certainly looked pretty cool. You can even go the f-clamp route as well if money is an issue.

4. In terms of the full 24" capacity, if you don't see yourself ever needing this then why waste the wood. However if you have the space and/or you decide to build a joinery bench then you may as well just go for it.

5. You could of course just purchase the required hardware from a normal hardware shop as the BC stuff is not propriety.

[Jim Matthews]

I built one with the Benchcrafted hardware to the traditional specs.

It is now permanently mounted where a tail vise would traditionally reside.
I have no difficulty getting workpieces high enough to dovetail, at this lower height and alignment for marking is simple,
as the top of the vise chops are flush with the benchtop.

That said, if I were to do it again I would just purchase the one available from TFWW (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-MOX) as built by the Philadelphia Furniture workshop boffins.
For a little more than the cost of the excellent Benchcrafted DIY parts, you get one that's ready to rumble.

FWIW - I focus best at a distance where my arms are outstretched (old guy reading newspaper distance).
Having a raised Moxxon vise put it too close for me to see clearly.

Two things made my dovetails straighter - better lighting and properly sharpened saws.

[Sam Stephens]

My moxon vise is better suited to drawer sized pieces <12" and probably more like 8-9". Not sure of the spacing on mine, but I think I can clamp about a 14" wide board max. Personally I find bigger casework fits in my leg vise a bit better and since I do this much less, I built the vise based on my intended use -drawer sized parts.

I would agree on the chamfer on the front jaw if you're going to saw half-blind or blind DTs. Easy enough to add after the fact. The thickness of the front jaw will force you to clamp boards much higher otherwise -not sure of why there would be a beef with this? Derek Cohen's blog has nice ideas for setup boards for transferring marks and what not -standard stuff. FWIW, I'm sure the BC stuff is the bomb, but I bought a 3' acme screw (3/4"), sawed it in half, and made some wooden handles for my vice -couldn't justify the cost of the BC hardware. I have recessed nut in the back of the vise that can slip out and be quickly spun as a sort of semi-quick release.

Sam

[Steve Baumgartner]

I made my Moxon from the BC parts and with the double holes at the right hand end (I think that was the Wood Whisperer's idea) for easier removal of small pieces. Kindest thing I ever did for my back! My only issue has been that I made it from left-over 8/4 hard maple and it is very heavy to put on and off the workbench.

One thing if you do the double holes - you need to clamp a piece the same thickness as your work at the opposite end else clamping the work outside the screw tends to skew the jaws and not hold tightly.

I don't see the need for chamfered jaws. The only advantage I can imagine is that you can clamp the work with very little projecting above the jaws and still slant your saw down. But that would only be an advantage if you have trouble with the board chattering with a larger projection. I clamp boards with a couple of inches projecting above the jaws and haven't had that problem. Of course, if you use a coarse or dull saw your mileage may vary.

Regarding going to the hardware store, bear in mind that the BC parts use acme-thread bolts and nuts. A general hardware store isn't likely to carry those; you will probably need to find an industrial supplier. Ordinary threaded rod will no doubt work, but not as smoothly.

A while ago I solved the old-guy vision thing by having a pair of close-only safety glasses made up. I can't read the clock from across the shop, but I can see my layout lines without a problem!

[Chuck Nickerson]

First the chamfer question: Every design choice involves a trade-off. The chamfer allows you to clamp the board lower and still cut at an angle. The lack of chamfer leaves a larger reference surface for chisel work. In my work I've never used the vise jaw as a reference surface; but that's my work.

Moxon vise width: I ended up building two. My standard + Moxon was built with BC hardware, 8/4 white oak, with 25" between screws (27" between centers). It's quite heavy,and I do a lot of drawer work. So I built a second: home-made wood screws, 6/4 poplar, 9" between screws. It gets 90% of the use.

[Andrae Covington]

As I do a lot of joinery by hand I am going to build a Moxon Vise to take some pressure off my back using the Benchcrafted kit. Anybody have any suggestions about this? I was thinking to make it smaller than the Benchcrafted suggestion as I don't do too much big casework but will I regret this later? I saw somewhere that Chris Schwartz has chamfered the moving jaw on his vise to make it easier to saw blind dovetails closer to the jaws - does that seem a good idea? Any other suggestions or ideas to improve the Benchcrafted plans? http://www.benchcrafted.com

I'm one of those who bought acme threaded rod and nuts (about $35 from Enco) rather than the Benchcrafted kit. The kit is very nice, I just didn't want to spend that much money. I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

I used wood I already had, probably bitter cherry (Prunus emarginata). The front jaw on mine is only about 5/4 rather than the usual 8/4, but I haven't noticed any problems with it being too flexible to hold. When clamping narrow pieces, the front jaw does bend a little as I crank the screws. I lined the front jaw with leather, which helps it grip, but probably not necessary. It is often suggested to slightly crown the front jaw so it "bites" in the middle first; I made some attempt to do this. I put a small chamfer on the front just to ease the edge but so far am in Derek Cohen's camp about leaving a flat large enough to register chisels. I have chewed up the top of the jaws a little paring that way though, so if you're one of those people who are afraid to beat up your shop-made tools, that may not be to your liking.

I also borrowed Derek's idea for a separate "I-beam" support to hold the back end of the work while transferring marks. I don't have a photo of that; it's a really ugly thing in plywood but gets the job done.

I have 24" between screws. In retrospect, I'm not sure I really needed to make the vise so large. I could hold casework of nearly any dimension between my fixed and sliding leg vises, so the moxon is really more for drawers. It's a bulky, heavy monster to move on and off the workbench and store. Maybe smaller would be better.

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[David Weaver]

I have a big one that is also made out of a very rough tall oak router table fence (made of 8/4 stuff and joined). I had made that in the past and it was already square for the back.

I used maple dowels from woodcraft (1 1/2" dowels at the time were 6 bucks per) and the cheap chinese thread tap box for dowels that large.

The only thing that I would recommend if you go that route is:
* decide on what height you want your vise top to be. The higher it is, the better it will be for working the ends of long case pieces, but there are limits to how high you want it to be based on comfort
* if you use a cheap thread box, be sure to sharpen the cutter. Nothing fancy, just go over what's there to make sure the edge is sharp.

I've seen multiple mentions of coarse nasty threads or chipped out threads from the cheap thread taps, so I never did a before try. My threads in maple are perfectly formed with no chipout. We wouldn't expect a chisel or plane to work if it was delivered dull, and those thread tap boxes are the same way. Once you sharpen them, they are very good for what they cost, even though the threads are not quite 90 degrees.

It was a long time before I made a vise because I didn't want to have to store it, but using the router table rigid fence sort of eliminates that issue as it barely takes up any more space than the RT fence did alone (I rarely use a router anyway).

[Adam Maxwell]

I used maple dowels from woodcraft (1 1/2" dowels at the time were 6 bucks per) and the cheap chinese thread tap box for dowels that large.

I did something similar for the screws, though I used maple dowel from Beall and a Conover-style Taiwanese thread box that gave me a lot of trouble; the cutter geometry was poorly matched to the tap. I reground it properly, but only the tip was hardened, so it didn't last. Then my kids broke the hold-down bolt before I could make a new cutter.

After working with it as my sole vise for a while, the thin (8/4) jaws were the biggest problem I had; they'd flex and rack badly unless you were clamping a fairly wide board that extended vertically through the bottom of the jaws. If you look at the original Moxon plate, the vise has very thick jaws, so I laminated another piece of 4/4 maple to mine. Made a big difference in usage, so that's something to keep in mind.

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[David Weaver]

Mine is 8/4 with about 2 feet between the jaws. The front is a piece of QS birch and the back (the router fence part) is laminated 4/4 oak (so it's also 8/4 thickness). It seems to have good holding power.

[william sympson]

FWIW - I was thinking that I needed to use the screw (wood or iron) approach but i just didn't want to spend the money....then I had a momentary closing of a normally open thought circuit breaker! I went the low-tech route with the vise I built a while back and couldn't be happier with the results.

I re-purposed some 1/2" pipe clamps and used a SYP 2x6 that a neighbor had set out on the curb for the trash collector. So I have nothing invested but about 30 mins of time, and 6 wood screws to connect the base and gussets to the back jaw. My only regret is that I didn't build it sooner.

I made the holes over-sized so that i can clamp odd shaped pieces without it binding on the pipes. I can rotate the clamp head putting pressure above, on, or below the center line for the odd shapes. It will open to what ever width I need and when it is not in use, I pull the clamps out for other uses. It has an incredible grip without any jaw liners.

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[Bruce MANNING]

As I do a lot of joinery by hand I am going to build a Moxon Vise to take some pressure off my back using the Benchcrafted kit. Anybody have any suggestions about this? I was thinking to make it smaller than the Benchcrafted suggestion as I don't do too much big casework but will I regret this later? I saw somewhere that Chris Schwartz has chamfered the moving jaw on his vise to make it easier to saw blind dovetails closer to the jaws - does that seem a good idea? Any other suggestions or ideas to improve the Benchcrafted plans? http://www.benchcrafted.com

I want to thank everyone for the fine ideas. After thinking about it I guess I will go with the ears idea and I will build the I-beam support, but otherwise stick with the BC design. It is going to be a heave contraption to move around and I would love to have a dedicated joinery bench but I just do not have the space. Thanks again.

[Jacob Nothstine]

The Woodwrights Shop did a show about the Moxon Vise. A lot of good information.
http://video.pbs.org/video/2265291141/

[Jim Matthews]

This is how I made my test kitchen version of the Moxxon.

This works reasonably well, if the pipe clamp mechanism is solid.
(Mine wasn't, it would slip when heavily tightened.)

I went with the threaded version for two reasons;
the vise won't back out under load,
the rounded wheels don't snag my apron as I wander around the bench.

Look at my Avatar - you should see something familiar...

[Todd Hyman]

I looked at this website for some ideas. http://www.halfinchshy.com/search/label/Benchcrafted

[Jim Koepke]

I looked at this website for some ideas. http://www.halfinchshy.com/search/label/Benchcrafted

I watched that and then somehow ended up in the Higgs Field.

How Nobel…

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/10/08/science/the-higgs-boson.html#/?g=true&higgs1_slide=1

jtk

[Hilton Ralphs]

I watched that and then somehow ended up in the Higgs Field.



Ah yes, the Big Bang theory, what a goof show. I will probably put my new bench against the wall so was thinking about hinging the Moxon to the wall.