Inside turning technique

[alex grams]

I am a relatively new turner, but I have gotten a pretty good method and style set up I am happy with my performance an product. However, the one area that I find I need the best improvement on is turning the inside of bowls, especially on bowls that are deeper. I can do a good shear cut on the outside that gives a very smooth finish, but something about my technique doesn't transfer to the inside.

I have a 5/8" thompson for the outside with the standard grind and it works great. Due to the fact that I am not getting the ideal cuts I want on the inside with a bowl gouge, I am typically using a carbide insert tool for profiling the inside of the bowl, but this leads to more tearout. Similar to the outside of the bowl, a good gouge will give me a better, smoother cut with less tearout than a carbide tool, so I want to figure out how to improve my gouge technique on the inside. I have a 1/2" U with a bottom grind, but still get issues with a smooth cut, especially in the transition from bottom to side on bowls. It seems like the best angle of cut is a position where the handle of the tool is just too long and starts contacting the table/bed of the lathe. Am I doing that wrong?

I guess this is kind of open ended, but any pictures/videos diagramming a good angle of cut and technique on the inside of the bowl would be appreciated. For the deeper bowls, would it be a good idea to get a 5/8" gouge with a bottom grind to help where I have more overhang? I do have the Raffin and Grumbine DVD's, so maybe I need to take another look at them. I think Raffin did a better job diagramming and demonstrating the exact angles of cut, but it has been a while.

Thanks in advance.

[Roger Chandler]

I cannot furnish you with pics of my technique, but what I do is hollow out the inside of the bowl just about to where I want it...[with the bowl gouge]......then, I use a 1" round nose scraper with a fresh edge on it and make a couple of light passes from the bottom to the rim.......then for my final two passes I will refresh the edge on the scraper again and then turn the scraper up at about 35 degrees and take shear cuts with it.......your tool rest needs to be at a height for these shear cuts so that your edge is slightly above center and you need to take light cuts......little fine curlees will come off the scraper and you will have a finish that can be sanded beginning at 220 grit.........I get superb results this way most of the time.

Some woods do better than others, but this is a common and good technique to use. Do you have a scraper?

[alex grams]

I have some scrapers, but they are the smaller, cheaper kind that don't hold edges well, nor have the longer handles I would like. I do have a fluteless gouge that I can put an edge on and roll it on its side to scrape with, but (don't ask me why) I just haven't made a handle for it yet to use it. I keep telling myself I will, but I just haven't.

[Dennis Ford]

Getting a good cut inside does take more practice but it is possible on a bowl. Try holding the tool just below horizontal and rotating the flute to the right so that you are cutting with the tip of the tool while the bevel is just touching; (this is a push cut only). It is not an easy cut but should help.

[Reed Gray]

Alex,
The inside of the bowl is a lot different to turn than the inside. Part of this is because you can not see the profile as you turn like you can when you turn the outside of a bowl. This means you have to frequently use your fingers to feel how smooth (how good or bad the humps and bumps are) the inside surfaces are. The other part is that when turning, the bowl rim, tool rest, and bed of the lathe get in the way if you try to use the exact same type of cuts you use on the outside of the bowl. If you have a sliding or pivoting headstock, and use them, you are able to get the lathe bed mostly out of the way. Mostly, this allows you to stand straight up, and drop your handles a bit for the higher shear angle. On the inside, I prefer more open fluted gouges, with very little sweep to them, and I roll them on their sides. If you go to You Tube and type in robo hippy, I have several clips up on turning bowls (one with gouges, and one with scrapers), and one on the fluteless gouge as well. It is my favorite inside finish cut and bottom feeder type of tool. You are correct also in that a deeper bowl is more difficult, especially if the walls are straight, and the transition is fairly sharp/square. Sharp tools is #1 priority. #2 is learning how to present the tool to the wood so that you get clean cuts. #3 is learning to move your body with the tool as you cut so you get a bump free surface. Those 3 things, will hopefully cut down on sanding time and use of the 80 grit gouge.

robo hippy

[alex grams]

Thanks Reed. I saw your video on the fluteless gouge (great video by the way). I have one that I need to put a handle on, but it looks promising. I don't have any good, hefty scrapers, so I just ordered a 1" one from Thompson that I will set up. What angle do you put on your scrapers?

I have a DVR XP lathe, so I can turn the headstock, but I would need to buy the outboard turning rest, which runs about 300$ (not a cheap investment). But I may need to put that on the list of things to get sooner rather than later.

I try to be conscious of how I work to get proper technique, but I do catch myself moving the tool with my arms and not my body, which I need to get better at.

[Michael Mills]

I have a DVR XP lathe, so I can turn the headstock, but I would need to buy the outboard turning rest, which runs about 300$ (not a cheap investment). But I may need to put that on the list of things to get sooner rather than later.

I try to be conscious of how I work to get proper technique, but I do catch myself moving the tool with my arms and not my body, which I need to get better at.

I have the Nova 1624 and rotate the head out to the 22.5* indent and still reach everything with the banjo/rest on the bed. It does give you a lot more room; you do not need to go out to 45* or 90*. I did buy the outrigger when I bought the lathe and after almost four years have never used it.

You may want to take a look at some of Stuart's videos also, in particular stance and tool overhang.
http://vimeo.com/woodturning/videos

[Matt Owen]

Unless the bowl is extremely deep, you should be able to pivot your headstock to the first detent and still use the normal banjo that came with your DVR XP. It won't get the ways completely out of the way, but it will still help quite a bit.

I made my own outboard turning rest for somewhere around $30, but I have access to a machine shop and a welder. I've never used the Teknatool unit to compare, but this one works as it should: easy to adjust and solid in use. All of that being said, I rarely use it.:p

[Matt Owen]

I have the Nova 1624 and rotate the head out to the 22.5* indent and still reach everything with the banjo/rest on the bed. It does give you a lot more room; you do not need to go out to 45* or 90*. I did buy the outrigger when I bought the lathe and after almost four years have never used it.

You beat me to it. I guess it took me to long too attach the pictures.:D

[Reed Gray]

We do use a DVR for our demo lathe for club meetings, and when I demo bowl turning, I do pivot the headstock a bit. Can't remember if it has the outboard turning set up like Matt shows or not and that set up is pretty cool. I do prefer the sliding headstocks, just more convenient.

I did take a workshop with Stuart once. Found his turning method very strange. It took me a year or two to figure out that it developed around turning on a long bed lathe where you use different standing and turning techniques than you do if you have a bowl/short bed/pivoting/sliding headstock set up. I have done 95% of my bowl turning with the headstock down on the tailstock end of the lathe, and that is a lot of bowls, and those turning habits are automatic now.

My scrapers are at 70 degrees. I got an Artisan starter set from Craft Supplies many years ago and it is pretty much the same angles they came with. I would want 60 or 70 on them for best use, and the burr from the CBN wheels.

robo hippy

[robert baccus]

A good bottomfeeder can be easily made by grinding a gouge to 70-75 deg. Looks like it won't cut but will with no catches. Practically all tools lose contact with the bevel/wood when you go around the curve in the bottom. This thing maintains contact in the very bottom. Does a great finish cut with little or no sanding necessary.

[Wayne Lovell]

Both Fort Worth and Dallas have active turning clubs you might want to attend a meeting of one or both clubs most turners are very eager to help each other. I think you would get a lot out of joining a club. I would suggest the East Texas club in Tyler which I belong to but not many people are crazy enough to drive 90 miles to a turning club like I am. The club also has a open shop day on the third Saturday of most months hosted by one of the members in Mineola, the next one (and last for this year) is Oct 26 if you would like to make a road trip. There about 6 lathes and a lot of very experienced turners would love to give you some hands on help. Information is in the club newsletter which is on line at the East Texas woodturners web site. Guests are always welcome.

Wayne.

[Prashun Patel]

Personally, I don't think you need anything but some more practice. You can try pulling the final cut up from the bottom instead of pushing from the rim; that works for me. But in the end, it's just about the deftness of your touch; it doesn't matter whether you shear scrape or ride the bevel or where your elbows are. All those techniques IMHO are personal. There's nothing to it but practice.

[Wally Dickerman]

There is a cut that very few turners know about that works great on deep bowls where the rim gets in the way. I came up with it way back when very few lathes had more than a 12 inch swing. The bed kept getting the way when I was hollowing a bowl.

I start the cut in the regular way, cutting on the right side of the nose. When the tool gets fairly deep into the bowl and before the handle crosses the bed, lower the handle and with the handle pointing away from you, push the handle in a rainblow arc to the center of the bowl. The handle never crosses bed. It's a very controlled cut and you can actually see the cut better than when using the conventional cut. There won't be any catches when using this cut.

Clear as mud?

[Greg McClurg]

Wally, interesting, but yes...clear as mud.

Greg