Proper Dilution and Power settings for Cermark

[Eddie Castaneda]

Good Morning Guys I was trying to find out the per ratio for Diluting Cermark and also the proper power setting for engraving. Any help would be greatly appreciated

[Mike Null]

Eddie

Dilute it until it is the consistency of 2% milk. Do not shake it--stir it thoroughly and frequently as you work. (shaking doesn't break down the coagulated Cermark)

I can only guess at a setting but I'd start with 100p, 30s and 600 dpi.

[Tony Lenkic]

Eddie,

Some people use 10:1 dilution ratio, my is 6:1 and it works well for marking stainless steel.
Have you tried your Fiber tube without any cermark?

[Dan Hintz]

Eddie,

Some people use 10:1 dilution ratio, my is 6:1 and it works well for marking stainless steel.
Have you tried your Fiber tube without any cermark?

Yeah, I use (roughly) 10:1... there's no specific mix that works best, it's just a carrier, so use whatever you're comfortable with.

That said, I'm with Tony... you should be using the fiber for this.

[Eddie Castaneda]

I am Using the fiber some what. The Boss man wanted to give this a try. also its the pearl white I am using.

[Joe Hillmann]

Have you looked at this yet?

http://www.thermark.com/content/view/17/93/

[Joe Hillmann]

And this

http://www.thermark.com/content/view/116/171/

[Eddie Castaneda]

Joe I did look at all the information on the Thermark Website, the purpose of me asking is that those are probably generic setting and Mixes so I thought I would ask you guys who have used it and get actual power settings

[Nicolas Silva]

The online suggested setting is 100% power and speed at 10% of your max power (5% on a 50 watt laser). That didn't work for me. I do a lot of brushed steel and what I found was my optimal setting was 100% power at 20% speed. Any slower gave a dull almost burned look. I am using a 45 watt laser for this.
your best bet might be to set up a series of squares on a test piece and simply run multiple speeds until you zero in on something that works best for your material. Cheers!
Nick
Studio-N
45W ULS M-300

[Dan Hintz]

The online suggested setting is 100% power and speed at 10% of your max power (5% on a 50 watt laser).

Yeah, I wish they would remove that "suggestion"... it's rubbish. With my 60W system, that would have been 6S... I needed 20+, or else the mark was blown away

[Mark Ward]

I've got the Cermark LM6000 paste and wanted to check if this Bio-Ethanol fuel (http://www.primrose.co.uk/gardeco-bioethanol-fuel-bottle-p-39173.html) (95% ethanol) would work OK to mix it down with (I checked the big DIY stores websites and they don't have pure ethanol or denatured alcohol from what I can see) or is this white spirit (http://www.diy.com/nav/decor/decorating-tools-and-supplies/treatments-and-cleaners/white_spirit/-specificproducttype-white_spirit/B-and-Q-White-Spirit-2L-12207529?icamp=recs) suitable?

Also, your 10:1 or 6:1 dilution, is that 1 part cermark to 6 or 10 parts of the ethanol/denatured alcohol or the otehr way around? :o

[Dan Hintz]

10:1 alcohol:Cermark

I find it hard to believe even a basic DIY store doesn't have simple alcohol... you should be able to get it in quart cans, usually in the paint section.

[Clark Pace]

Weird. Last time I used cermark I think my speed was 100mm speed at 35% power. I sure it depends on your dilution.

[Mark Ward]

It's as I thought it probably was, over in the UK it is sold as Methalated Spirit and not as Denatured Alcohol which is where my confusion was coming from :) However they didn't have foam brushes so I'll have to go to a craft shop tomorrow for one of them.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

I haven't bought a brush in years. Instead, I cut up pieces of ~1" foam...they are leftovers from custom case foam jobs done in the past. Just a thought...

[Kev Williams]

Do not shake it--stir it thoroughly and frequently as you work. (shaking doesn't break down the coagulated Cermark)

Put 3 or 4 small SS nuts and/or screws in the paint jar (and every other jar you keep Cermark in), then shaking works great! :)

[Chris DeGerolamo]

Put 3 or 4 small SS nuts and/or screws in the paint jar (and every other jar you keep Cermark in), then shaking works great! :)

I use split key rings, agreed, it works well.

[Dan Hintz]

Weird. Last time I used cermark I think my speed was 100mm speed at 35% power. I sure it depends on your dilution.

Yes and no... the dilution itself has no effect as you wait for the piece to dry before lasering anyway. But if you're too thin/thick, you could fail to get a proper coat of Cermark and there mark itself won't work.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Weird. Last time I used cermark I think my speed was 100mm speed at 35% power. I sure it depends on your dilution.

I don't have a Chinese machine but that's too slow.

I think people fail to understand 500mm/sec is just under 20in/sec. A western laser averages about 80in/sec. So at your fastest speed, you're 4x slower than a western machine. Cermark recommends you run at ratio of 80ips:100W. So you need about 25W to run at full speed (500mm/sec). Now assuming Chinese lasers are less efficient, maybe you need 30-40W.

So to make a long story short, crank up the speed. You're running 5x slower than you should be.

[Mark Ward]

Put 3 or 4 small SS nuts and/or screws in the paint jar (and every other jar you keep Cermark in), then shaking works great! :)


I use split key rings, agreed, it works well.
When you mix up your Cermark and you have some left for future use do you just keep the split key rings in the container with the cermark mix?
I've come back to my mix I'd made a month ago and it's all gone hard (it wasn't an airtight container). Is keeping it in with the keyrings and giving it a shake every week a good way to keep it from settling and drying out?

[Chris DeGerolamo]

When you mix up your Cermark and you have some left for future use do you just keep the split key rings in the container with the cermark mix?
I've come back to my mix I'd made a month ago and it's all gone hard (it wasn't an airtight container). Is keeping it in with the keyrings and giving it a shake every week a good way to keep it from settling and drying out?

The keyrings have no effect on the evaporation of the liquids inside. I ALWAYS make sure the lids is on as tight as the threads will allow. I must also note that I only store Cermark in the manufacturer's bottle (I have two currently). Here's the way I look at it: if I "over-mix" the Cermark by adding too much DNA, then I can open it up and let it dry OR add more [undiluted] Cermark (did I mention I keep two?). This way, I never loose product to drying. HTH.

(yes, I keep the rings in.)

[Mark Ward]

The keyrings have no effect on the evaporation of the liquids inside. I ALWAYS make sure the lids is on as tight as the threads will allow. I must also note that I only store Cermark in the manufacturer's bottle (I have two currently). Here's the way I look at it: if I "over-mix" the Cermark by adding too much DNA, then I can open it up and let it dry OR add more [undiluted] Cermark (did I mention I keep two?). This way, I never loose product to drying. HTH.

(yes, I keep the rings in.)
Thanks for the reply. I only have 1 bottle of the Cermark so will need to mix it up in another container, I was planning on keeping the mixed up stuff in the glass jar that came with my airbrush?!

[Mike Null]

I use a 2 oz. glass jar and I'm trying Kev's idea of using nuts and bolts in the jar and shaking it to mix. So far so good.

[Mark Ward]

Just done a range of tests with my Cermark and wanted some views.

From my tests I think the 100p and 50s looks the best so I am tempted to try 100p and 60s to see if that looks any better.

However my main query is with regards to the number "10" on the top row. The outline numbers were done with the 100p/50s settings, however after I ran the sheet of under water I used a tissue to just rub over some bits where there was water still (mainly where the number 10 is) and it faded. Are you meant to leave time after lasering the Cermark before wipingoff any water it as I had anticipated that it should be all fine.

292208

[Dan Hintz]

Just done a range of tests with my Cermark and wanted some views.

From my tests I think the 100p and 50s looks the best so I am tempted to try 100p and 60s to see if that looks any better.

However my main query is with regards to the number "10" on the top row. The outline numbers were done with the 100p/50s settings, however after I ran the sheet of under water I used a tissue to just rub over some bits where there was water still (mainly where the number 10 is) and it faded. Are you meant to leave time after lasering the Cermark before wipingoff any water it as I had anticipated that it should be all fine.

The mark should be instant (and permanent). Tissue is not a sufficient test... you should be using something stronger, like one of those plastic Brill-O pads. Your tests in the upper left look the darkest, but only you can determine if they're solid against scrubbing.

[Scott Shepherd]

The DPI and the PPI also matter on that too Mark. What DPI did you run the job at and what PPI did you have your engraving set at? I think, and I'm doing this from memory, on our 75W, we're at 100%P, 40% speed, so my guess is the one that's the richest black isn't the one with the strongest bond. Give it the scrub test and you'll know.

[Gary Hair]

First, no need to try less than 100% power, second, you are jumping too much with speed in 10% increments. With 80 watts you are seeing a change of about 8 watts, that's the entire usable range in my 30 watt machine. Try 100% power and speed from 40 to 80 in increments of 5, then when you think you are close do a range of 10 in increments of 1 or 2. Last, as Dan said, use a brillo pad for testing - I use a gray scotchbrite pad and when it's stuck it's stuck!

[Mark Ward]

Thanks guys, finally got myself some metal scouring pads to give it a proper rub and the results are in the image below. 30 speed looks to be the clear winner so far with a toss up between 100p and 90p.
I'll next do as you suggest Gary and work between 25-35 speed and try and narrow the best down a bit more.

Scott, I think I used 500 DPI and 500 PPI, does this sound about right or do I need to alter these up do you think?
292302

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks guys, finally got myself some metal scouring pads to give it a proper rub and the results are in the image below. 30 speed looks to be the clear winner so far with a toss up between 100p and 90p.
I'll next do as you suggest Gary and work between 25-35 speed and try and narrow the best down a bit more.

Scott, I think I used 500 DPI and 500 PPI, does this sound about right or do I need to alter these up do you think?
292302

600 DPI and 1000Hz.

[Gary Hair]

Thanks guys, finally got myself some metal scouring pads to give it a proper rub

When I did my first few marks with Cermark I was so paranoid about rubbing off the mark that I barely rubbed it with a paper towel. It wasn't until I wanted to removed a mark I made on some business card size blanks that I realized how tough the mark really is! I used 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper and sanded that thing for about 5 minutes before I gave up - the mark was still about 90% there...

[Ross Moshinsky]

There is no secret to getting a base setting for Cermark on regular stainless.

Their recommendations are based on 80ips machines. So they say you can run 100% power (80ips) with 100W. So it's an 80ips:100W ratio (or 4:5). So if you have 80W you should aim for about 64ips or about 45% speed (based on a max of 140ips). So your best setting is going to be around 80W and 40-50% speed.