Panels shrinking in doors!

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Background....last summer/fall I did my first (and last!) 'for pay' cabinet job. Stiles and rails were either poplar or soft maple (a mixture)...panels were all poplar, 3/4" thick. All material was store-bought, kiln dried. I cut the panels 1/16 'short' all around allow for movment. The material went from the warehouse to my shop, where it sat for quite some time (weeks) before milling. Panels were glued several at a time, cut/profiled as soon as they were out of the clamps, and immediately assembled into door. As I finished 8 or 10 doors, I carried them to the house (still under construction) and hung them. Some hung on the cabinets for maybe 6 weeks before the painter took them down and away to prime, CAULK, and paint them. When he brought them back, I hung them back up. End of background...on to the problem.

The panels have shrunk considerably...some it looks like as much as 1/4" across a 14" panel. :eek: Obviously, this causes big uglies in a CAULKED and painted door. Painter can't see an alternative to just taking them down, removing the CAULK, sanding, RECAULKING and repainting.

From the beginning, I STRONGLY recommended using MDF for the panels, and I LOUDLY expressed my concerns about caulking the raised panel doors. I'm absolved of 'blame' in this deal...but the owner and painter are both good friends of mine. When originally finished, I have to admit the doors looked awfully good...but the first problems occurred after the first cold snap last fall, when the house was still not climate controlled. I'm worried to death about him taking these doors out of the air conditioning (house now occupied) into his uncooloed humid shop to do this work, then have the same thing happen again. This is a quality painter, using quality products (Sherwin Williams) the same way he does quite frequently with no problems. Any other thoughts on what went south here?

KC

[Jason Roehl]

I think you had it covered there, KC. That wood could have been quite dry (below equilibrium MC) from the store, then weeks of being unfinished in heat and humidity caused the panels to swell (above equilibrium MC) before they were finished. Once the house was climate-controlled, the panels shrunk back down to equilibrium moisture content, pulling out all that caulk, which was probably done "for show", moreso than to hide movement. Caulking to hide movement usually takes more caulk than painters typically use on interior gaps, in my experience. Your protests were quite valid. (Try not to tell them "I told you so" too much!! :D )

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I was hoping a painter would chime in. He says he does it all the time...and he also said that my doors 'fit better' than most he sees.

Bottom line is they look terrible...and I don't see how they're gonna get fixed unless he does the work in the house...which really isn't practical (spraying).

KC

[Jeff Sudmeier]

One thing about it, wood movement is gradual, so he may be able to take down one door at a time, remove the caulk, recaulk and imediately paint. If you could do it fast enough, maybe you could keep the panels at the size they are in the house.

Otherwise, the panels will again expand in his shop and then contract in the house.

[Jim Becker]

Ouch. Caulk is a no-no, IMHO for this kind of thing...floating panels need to float!

[Sam Blasco]

Ouch. Caulk is a no-no, IMHO for this kind of thing...floating panels need to float!

Agreed, and the panels should have been painted before assembly.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I agree all the way around. Panels weren't painted first because it simply wasn't practical to do that, since I wasn't painting them. I can't remember how many doors there were, but it was something between 60 and 70 with the kitchen, laundry, two baths and an entertainment thingy. It would've been a logistical nightmare. Not only did I lobby very hard for MDF ("I don't want PAPER in my cabinets!"...client), I also suggested a flat plywood panel instead, to no avail. So I lost the 'battle'...but I think the homeowner lost the 'war'. I feel bad for him because not only are his cabinets not looking good, he knows it's a lot due to choices he made. :-(

KC

[Scott Parks]

Ouch. Caulk is a no-no, IMHO for this kind of thing...floating panels need to float!

Wouldn't caulk be flexible enough?

[jack duren]

this is not unusual on new cabinetry. but... a 6 week gap is unusual. painters are usually on the inside painting within two weeks,not more.

not the cabinet mans fault, but a painter should not have caulked a 5 piece solid door if the enviroment is not controlled. most painters will turn the temperature up as far as they can for several days before starting and work in it as well.

6 weeks is bad.....jack