What is the absolute accurate miter sled for a table saw?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have been struggling trying to build some boxes.

While I have a couple fairly accurate miter gauges for my table saw and they work well for general carpentry, cabinet building etcetera, they don't seem to be accurate enough for boxes.

Can anyone point me to a dead-on accurate table saw miter sled or plans for a miter sled for cutting 45 degree miters timer after time?

Thanks

[Jim Tobias]

Ken,
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're wanting to cut 45 degree miters on the corners for the 4 side of the box?? For that process, I built a simple sled with a flat piece of oak as a fence. Make sure you get a flat edge on the oak fence, lay it flat on the sled and get your magnifying glasses on(at least that is what I have to do:) ) and use the best square you have to get it exactly square to your blade. Then tilt your blade to 45 degrees. I used the "Tilt a box" digital box to get the blade to an exact 45 degrees. Lock it in and cut away. I have been able to get very tight miters that way.
It's much easier(at least to me) to get good miters with the side pieces laying flat.
Jim

[mreza Salav]

I recently build a miter sled for my table saw similar to the following:
http://www.woodsmithshop.com/download/511/table-saw-miter-sled.pdf

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The crucial thing is that as long as you have exact 90 degree there even if your miters are off a tiny bit they will match if you cut both on the two sides of the sled.

[Roy Turbett]

Check out these plans. I think they're just what you're looking for.

http://www.eaglelakewoodworking.com/post/Super-Sled-Crosscut-and-Miter-Sled.aspx

[Rich Engelhardt]

Ken,
IIRC, you have a TS3660 - the same as I do.

Before you drop a bundle on a third party sled or beat yourself up trying to dial one you build in, you might want to consider that the saw itself may be the problem.
While I love my Ridgid saw & as you say, it works great for just about everything I need it for - I've noticed it's "off" just enough to be frustrating.

You may be better off looking at an alternative, such as a shooting board.

[Cary Falk]

I love my Incra 1000SE and Miter Express combo. I have made a ton of picture frames with it that are dead on.

[Prashun Patel]

Ken,
If you are after perfect 45 degree bevels on < 3/4" stock, then consider using a router table and a good chamfer bit. I read that tip in Shop Notes a couple months ago.

[Bill Huber]

You are saying BOXES right, these may be 5" or more high, not say 1" or 2" high. For boxes I don't see how you can use a miter sled, now if you are making picture frames that is different.

So in my mind you just need a good sled for the saw that will hold the stock square to the blade. For a sled I just used some MDF and some Red Oak I had and have been using it for about 5 years now.

Now back to the boxes, are you having a problem with the sides being square or is it the 45° cut? So if it is the cuts not being square a good sled will take care of that, take the time to set it up RIGHT.

Now if it is the 45° part of the box then you have to set the saw up to as close as you can get and then make the cuts on both sides of the blade.

One other way that you can do 45° for small boxes is to use the router table, I have done this with very good success with a 45° router bit, just make sure you use a backer board so you don't blow out the ends.

[Jeff Monson]

The crucial thing is that as long as you have exact 90 degree there even if your miters are off a tiny bit they will match if you cut both on the two sides of the sled.

That is the key for me also, use both sides of the sled for opposing angles.

[Tom Willoughby]

I made a 90 degree sled using William Ng's 5 cut method. I found it tremendously helpful as you are not messing around moving the fence a scootch to get it perfectly aligned. With a pair of calipers and feeler gauges, you can measure the error and make the appropriate adjustment so that your sled fence is exactly at 90 degrees.

Below is a YouTube link to his method.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UbG-n--LFgQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUbG-n--LFgQ

Kind regards,
Tom

[James Conrad]

If the problem is the 45's having gaps, and your saw is square, and you have a sharp blade - try clamping your work down and stack cutting top and bottom and then sides together.

[David Helm]

I love my Incra 1000SE and Miter Express combo. I have made a ton of picture frames with it that are dead on.
Me too, only I make boxes and the fine tuning on the Incra is perfect.

[Frank Trinkle]

+1 on Incra sleds and other products! I own a bunch, and have found no better... anywhere!

[mike holden]

Two votes for incra huh.... I finally got fed up with my incra NOT being repeatable that I went and bought a jessem. It is built like a tank and repeatability and accuracy are no longer a problem. ymmv

Mike

[Frank Trinkle]

Two votes for incra huh.... I finally got fed up with my incra NOT being repeatable that I went and bought a jessem. It is built like a tank and repeatability and accuracy are no longer a problem. ymmv

Mike

Ummm... the OP is discussing the need for a miter Sled, not router accessories which is what Jessum makes. I have a Jessum Mast-R-Lift, and it's awesome, but Incra's miter tools are unbeatable IMHO.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Stop the sniping please!

[Pat Barry]

Ken, What are the basic dimensions for your box? Assuming the dimensions are manageable, then Bill's method would be my recommendation also. I don't think you need to buy a fancy Incra jig to do this task. One thing to keep in mind though, the materials need to lay 'flat' on the sled surface. If they are warped, even a smalll amount, it will totally mess up your results. Also, since it is a box intended to be square cornered, the opposite sides have to be absolutely equal to each other in length. Any small amount of cutting erro due to either of the mentioned issues will make your results unachievable.

[Keith Hankins]

I have been struggling trying to build some boxes.

While I have a couple fairly accurate miter gauges for my table saw and they work well for general carpentry, cabinet building etcetera, they don't seem to be accurate enough for boxes.

Can anyone point me to a dead-on accurate table saw miter sled or plans for a miter sled for cutting 45 degree miters timer after time?

Thanks

Well, I've been using the Incra 1000se and while it's not plans for a jig, it is dead accurate every time. It's got a micro adjust and I've taken of a thou at a time to get that miter dead perfect and it's repeatable. They have bigger models but this one works for 99 percent of what I've ever had to cut.

[David Helm]

Well, I've been using the Incra 1000se and while it's not plans for a jig, it is dead accurate every time. It's got a micro adjust and I've taken of a thou at a time to get that miter dead perfect and it's repeatable. They have bigger models but this one works for 99 percent of what I've ever had to cut.
What I do is make boxes. I have the Incra 1000HD. What Keith said is absolutely true. I got the 1000 for $68 on sale at Woodcraft. Way worth the small price and I don't have to buy plywood and spend the time making a sled.

[Phil Thien]

Bill Huber nailed the important question, whether you want to cut a bevel (for a 5" tall box, for example) or a miter (for a picture frame). Sometimes you need compound angles, such as when you're trying to make a box that is smaller at the bottom than at the top.

Either way, you may want to consider the Dubby*:

http://in-lineindustries.com/

Rockler has a sort of knock off:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18063&site=ROCKLER

I ended-up making my own, and I'm pretty happy with it.

I think the key no matter what you use is to use the scale to get you close, then cut a test piece and measure the test piece to confirm your result.

Also, repeatability is obviously important. I found that my miter gauge didn't always offer repeatable results. The sleds, because they support the work piece, are less likely to allow shifting as the piece is sent through the blade. In that regard, most any sled will be a step-up from a miter gauge.

Good luck!

*There have been complaints at this forum about custom service from In-Line Industries. I've read that the key is to order from (I think) Peachtree, you will receive the unit more quickly going that route.

[Jim Tobias]

Well, it's taken several days as I kept forgetting to take a picture when I was in shop.
But anyway, Ken, this is what I use to cut miters on the ends of box parts. My boxes are usually 2 - 4 inches tall. This jig was made very quickly. You really don't have to have the clamp part(although it helps and makes it much faster if you are doing a lot of parts). I added the clamp and the tape after I had been using the jig for a year. I used 2 runners to help keep everything square. Just be sure not to cut through fence board! I've been close a few times!

Jim

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[glenn bradley]

Not as sweet as Jim's but, I too use a small dedicated sled for "long" miters. A few elements kick in for mitered corners on small boxes. The 45* cut, of course but, the path must also be very perpendicular. A deviation from the right-angle adds up to a bad fit pretty quick. The hold downs really help with small parts in this respect.

[Michael W. Clark]

Jim

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Jim, completely off-topic and a stupid question, but what kind of nuts are you using to secure the toggle clamp in the T-track. I assume you are using standard machine screws. I have looked at various hardware catalogues, but some T-nuts appear to be for machine tables and those would be too large.

Just realized, you may be using the type of T-track made for 1/4" hardware. I mostly use the track for 5/16" flange bolts and have all 5/16" hardware, knobs, etc.

Thanks,
Mike

[Chuck Darney]

I built a sled with the fence adjustable. The accuracy is currently .0004 over 14 inches - plenty good enough for my use. With a 45* mitre clamped to it you should be able to get at least as accurate on those cuts.

...Chuck


I have been struggling trying to build some boxes.

While I have a couple fairly accurate miter gauges for my table saw and they work well for general carpentry, cabinet building etcetera, they don't seem to be accurate enough for boxes.

Can anyone point me to a dead-on accurate table saw miter sled or plans for a miter sled for cutting 45 degree miters timer after time?

Thanks

[Adam Diethrich]

How did you measure that Chuck?
You do realize just how small that is right?

A.W.D.

[Jim Tobias]

Mike,
I'm not in the shop but I do believe they are T-nuts. Probably t-track that uses the smaller hardware but I have ground off the edge of a few t-nuts before to make them fit into a spare piece of T-Track.

Jim

[James White]

If the problem is the 45's having gaps, and your saw is square, and you have a sharp blade - try clamping your work down and stack cutting top and bottom and then sides together.

I will second this. It is often an overlooked aspect that can cause frustration. I like to mount sandpaper on the fence. So that clamping is not needed most of the time. Try this before you go thru too much trouble.

James

[Mike Henderson]

For things like boxes, I use my miter saw, not my table saw. Are your cuts too long for your miter saw?

Mike

[Ken Fitzgerald]

For things like boxes, I use my miter saw, not my table saw. Are your cuts too long for your miter saw?

Mike

Mike...they aren't too long but I have never been happy with the accuracy and repeatability of my Delta SCMS. It's great for general carpentry work. I have a great specialized dedicated blade on it. It's just a real pain to set up each time I want to do 45º miter cuts. That is why I am considering a sled for table saw.

After asking at another website, I realize that a sled probably won't work well for boxes but it should work for a lot of the molding on the furniture I build.

[Art Mann]

I am also a fan of the Incra 1000SE (I think that is the number). I can routinely achieve miters good enough for picture frames or molding. One thing I found necessary was to adjust the miter gauge to the miter slot per instructions so that there is no lateral motion. I also added a MDF fence to the aluminum extrusion to extend the length of the fence and provide more friction with the work piece than what the aluminum extrusion provides. Having said that, I will say that I only use it for precision cuts other than 45 degrees nowdays. I took the time to build a miter sled and it makes super accurate 45 degree cuts very easy and repeatable. It might be an enjoyable project for you to do that. One problem with making your own is having a reference with which to set the angles. I used a large high quality 45-45-90 plastic drafting square that I have had since before the days of CAD.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike...they aren't too long but I have never been happy with the accuracy and repeatability of my Delta SCMS. It's great for general carpentry work. I have a great specialized dedicated blade on it. It's just a real pain to set up each time I want to do 45º miter cuts. That is why I am considering a sled for table saw.

After asking at another website, I realize that a sled probably won't work well for boxes but it should work for a lot of the molding on the furniture I build.

Okay. I have a 12" non-slider and find it gives me good miter cuts. I've heard that sliders are not as accurate.

Mike

[Ken Fitzgerald]

My next miter won't be a slider.

[richard poitras]

I have one of the Incra sleds and it works good but to use it on large panels as well it is limited. I think the William Ng's sled would be a good all around sled for box’s and panels or one of the Dubbys.

[Ron Kellison]

Okay. I have a 12" non-slider and find it gives me good miter cuts. I've heard that sliders are not as accurate.

Mike

If your "slider" is a Northfield, Wadkin, or other examples of old iron you wouldn't say that! :<)

Cheers,

Ron

[Mike Henderson]

If your "slider" is a Northfield, Wadkin, or other examples of old iron you wouldn't say that! :<)

Cheers,

Ron
I've heard that the Festool slider (Kapex) is very accurate. I've never heard of those slider compound miter saws you mention. I thought SCMS were fairly new inventions.

Mike

[Ed Griner]

Hey Ken hang in there you'll get it! I primarily make period furniture,but every now and then I take a crack at a modern piece using long miters. #1 the lumber has to be milled just about perfect to get perfect miters from a sled or a jig. My method making long miters or any miters,is cut em' close on your table saw and fit with a hand plane,like the old guys did. Works pretty well for me.

Good Luck/Ed

[Chuck Darney]

Using the 5-cut method. On my 5th cut I measured the top and bottom of the 14 inch piece I cut. There was a difference of .0004 inches over the length. I do realize it's very small and could expect some differences from changes in humidty, etc. I've checked it three or four times since I made it and the accuracy is the same.

...Chuck


How did you measure that Chuck?
You do realize just how small that is right?

A.W.D.

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

Using the 5-cut method. On my 5th cut I measured the top and bottom of the 14 inch piece I cut. There was a difference of .0004 inches over the length. I do realize it's very small and could expect some differences from changes in humidty, etc. I've checked it three or four times since I made it and the accuracy is the same.

...Chuck

What measuring device are you using to accurately measure 14" with a 0.0004" resolution?

[Chuck Darney]

I was using my fractional dial caliper with resolution to 1/64". I could tell it was easily within that resolution. I then used my Mitutoyo dial caliper (gift from my machinist brother) that has a resolution to .1000". Results were repeatable.


What measuring device are you using to accurately measure 14" with a 0.0004" resolution?

[Adam Diethrich]

I was using my fractional dial caliper with resolution to 1/64". I could tell it was easily within that resolution. I then used my Mitutoyo dial caliper (gift from my machinist brother) that has a resolution to .1000". Results were repeatable.

1/64" is only .016", and .1000" doesn't get us to less than "half a thou" either.
We're just curious Chuck, 'cause .0004" is very small.

A.W.D.

[Cary Falk]

I think there is some typos. I think Chuck meant 1/1000 which is .001. Isn't the difference from the top to bottom of the offcut of the 5 cut method suppose to be divided by 4?

[Chuck Darney]

I think there is some typos. I think Chuck meant 1/1000 which is .001.

I stand absolutely corrected. I did mean four one-thousands (.004) as opposed to four TEN-thousands (.0004).

@Adam - I should have realized this sooner when you said "We're just curious Chuck, 'cause .0004" is very small". It would indeed be VERY small!

That said, I'm glad I'm only working with wood and, although off by a factor of ten, the actual precision at that scale is negligible. Just don't let me make Mars lander parts!

...Chuck

[Ole Anderson]

Here is mine, made using a Woodpeckers 90 degree clamp jig. Overkill, but it works.

[Ed Aumiller]

Thanks to Jim Tobias and Glenn Bradley for pictures of there sleds....
Going to have to make one...

Keep sandpaper glued to my miter gauge to prevent slippage and have had good results
on corners if I made sure the blade was exactly 45 degrees...

But sled will encourage more projects since setup will be much faster..

[ron david]

. I can routinely achieve miters good enough for picture frames or molding. .
what is meant by good enough?
ron

[Art Mann]

Good enough means you can't see a gap where the mitered edges meet or slip a piece of paper between them after they are assembled.

[ron david]

that would be good then would it not. either the operation would be good or it wouldn't be good. I could never figure out where just abouts ,"good enough" would be on the scale. the reason that I pay attention to these types of things is that when I was a kid.( and this was a while ago) and had to work with the old man, i was doing something one day and said that was good enough. . the next thing that I knew was that I was smacked on the side of the head and the old man said never to say that is ,"good enough", either it is good or it is not.
ron