First dovetail box w/pix (part 2)

[Daniel Rode]

Part 2

After marking the pins by using the tails as a template, I brought the lines down the face ending at the shoulder line. I then proceeded to very carefully cut the pins. Unlike the tails, the cuts need to be accurate in both directions and close to the waste side of the line. I did fairly well for all but 1 cut. I got pulled away and when I returned I made a cut on the wrong side of the line. The result is clearly shown in the 2nd last image.
272010

After marking and sawing the pins I cleaned out the waste in much the same way as the pins. I angled the chisel, sometimes using a smaller chisel to follow the walls of the pins and not cut into them.
272011

That's all there rally really was to do. I looked at the shoulders to be sure they were straight and flat and that there were no high spots in the middle.

Below is a shot of my workbench as the work progressed. A couple of things that helped. First was a clip-on task light. This was the cheap kind with the metal reflector. A better light would have been nice but I got by OK with the clip-on. Getting light where I needed it really helped. Second was a stool at the right height for marking and chopping. Being able to sit comfortably made it pleasant and helped me to take my time and be precise and methodical.

272012

Here's the assembled box. You can see where I cut to the wrong side of the line in the upper right. In he lower left, the awful dotted scribble I made when I tried marking the shoulder with a pin gauge. I ordered a wheel gauge and I also ordered a different marking knife. I want to mark the pins with a knife instead of pencil so I needed a longer thinner blade.
272013

Here's the finished box with a quick coat of shellac. I made another mistake (I'm not sure how) I cut 1/4" x 1/4" groove for the bottom but I cut in on the top on the tail boards. It could have been worse. At least it was on the inside :) You can see the extra groove in the background.
272014

[Chris Griggs]

Those are very very good for a first go and honestly quite good for anything other than a dovetail that will be used as a visual displayed. My first few I split the boards!

BTW, no harm in trying to fix that gap you circled. Fixing mistakes is and even better skill than not making them. You can either peen it or shim it depending on how big it is.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Chris! THere were a LOT of mistakes. The pine is so soft that it compresses easily and makes it harder to split. I could almost resize a pin with thumb and forefinger :)

Those are very very good for a first go and honestly quite good for anything other than a dovetail that will be used as a visual displayed. My first few I split the boards!

[Bruce Page]

Those look very good!

[bob blakeborough]

Nothing wrong with that for a first box! Good job...

[Hilton Ralphs]

272014

Very cool Dan. Quick question though, isn't the convention to put tails on the long side of a box?

[Jim Koepke]

Looking good Daniel.

Pine is fun to work with. It can seem too soft at times.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

Very cool Dan. Quick question though, isn't the convention to put tails on the long side of a box?

For decorative purpose people will often put tails on the front of the box which is often the long side. Structurally, in drawers tails belong on the side, and in casework they belong on the top/bottom....usually. Of course, you see exceptions to all the rules.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Thanks Chris, I was thinking of a chest rather than a drawer where the stress of opening it comes into play.

Daniel, what made you cut the tails on the short end or was it just the way the wind was blowing at the time?

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Chris! THere were a LOT of mistakes. The pine is so soft that it compresses easily and makes it harder to split. I could almost resize a pin with thumb and forefinger :)

Ah yes, home store "white wood". I'm very familiar with its styrofoam like properties. If you ever dovetail it a harder wood the fit is even easier. You can cut the softwood pins pretty ridiculously oversize dand then just bash them into the hardwood pins.:).

I think poplar is a great wood to learn dovetailing on. It quite soft and forgiving, but has just enough stiffness/hardness too, that you need to be a little more accurate then with the super soft woods, and thus can get an idea of where potential problems are showing up in your technique.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm planning a wall hung cabinet with through dovetails with the tails on the sides since I expect the forces attempting to pull the joint apart will mostly be gravity, rather than forces trying to push the sides out. In fact, I'm near-by Nakashima so I am used to seeing the tails on the short side.

[Daniel Rode]

Very cool Dan. Quick question though, isn't the convention to put tails on the long side of a box?

It's only a practice box but I imagined it to be a wide drawer and determined the the tails should be on the sides to resist the pulling action of opening a drawer. I'll probably reverse things on the next box just to mix things up.

[Chris Griggs]

I'm planning a wall hung cabinet with through dovetails with the tails on the sides since I expect the forces attempting to pull the joint apart will mostly be gravity, rather than forces trying to push the sides out. In fact, I'm near-by Nakashima so I am used to seeing the tails on the short side.

Yeah, its definitely not uncommon to see that in case work. I've made cases that way too. Especially makes sense for hanging cabinets. For free standing cabinets I think putting the tails on top is more standard, but for anything sitting on the floor I'm not sure how much is matters either way (not that I really know what I'm talking about). Other nice thing about putting tails on the side is if you want to hide joinery all you need to do is make halfblinds and then cover the rest with molding. If the tails are on top and you want to hide the joinery you need to make a double lap dovetail which, while not too hard, is definitely more tedious than a half blind.

Near Nakashima huh? You're out in Bucks County (or on the dirty Jersey side of the river ;)) ? I drive through New Hope everytime I go visit the inlaws, but I still haven't visited the Nakashima studio. I'm actually not that big of a fan of the Nakashima style (just from a personal taste perspective), but one of these days I really do need to stop by there.

[Brian Holcombe]

Yeah, its definitely not uncommon to see that in case work. I've made cases that way too. Especially makes sense for hanging cabinets. For free standing cabinets I think putting the tails on top is more standard, but for anything sitting on the floor I'm not sure how much is matters either way (not that I really know what I'm talking about). Other nice thing about putting tails on the side is if you want to hide joinery all you need to do is make halfblinds and then cover the rest with molding. If the tails are on top and you want to hide the joinery you need to make a double lap dovetail which, while not too hard, is definitely more tedious than a half blind.

Near Nakashima huh? You're out in Bucks County (or on the dirty Jersey side of the river ;)) ? I drive through New Hope everytime I go visit the inlaws, but I still haven't visited the Nakashima studio. I'm actually not that big of a fan of the Nakashima style (just from a personal taste perspective), but one of these days I really do need to stop by there.

I saw recently a video of a Japanese cabinet maker cutting hidden dovetails, it was pretty incredible. Nakashima's grandson works in a shop very near to where I live (closer than the compound) and it was one of the desks he had built that inspired me to begin woodworking about 10 years ago. I don't work in his style, but I appreciate it, and think that their compound is certainly with a visit.

I'm on the jersey side, so you are probably not far from me if you are in Philly.

[Michael Peet]

Those are nice-looking DTs, Daniel. I also drop a task light into one of the holdfast holes in my bench and pull up a stool when doing DTs. I do stand for the sawing though.

Mike

[Andrew Pitonyak]

My first thought when I looked at your cuts (in part 1) was "wow, very nice cuts.... wait, is he NUTS, that's pine".

I found it difficult to cut dovetails in pine, but, your results are very impressive, even if it was not your first attempt. I found cherry more forgiving...

Very impressive.

[Daniel Rode]

My first thought when I looked at your cuts (in part 1) was "wow, very nice cuts.... wait, is he NUTS, that's pine".

I found it difficult to cut dovetails in pine, but, your results are very impressive, even if it was not your first attempt. I found cherry more forgiving...

Very impressive.
I have some cherry, poplar, oak and some marginal walnut. The HD pine is a little tough to work with but I don't want to waste even poplar until I get a little practice in. FWIW, the clear premium pine they stock is not too bad but it's expensive. Rough poplar is cheaper.

[Jim Koepke]

I have some cherry, poplar, oak and some marginal walnut. The HD pine is a little tough to work with but I don't want to waste even poplar until I get a little practice in. FWIW, the clear premium pine they stock is not too bad but it's expensive. Rough poplar is cheaper.

My work is usually done in the least expensive wood available. Occasionally better woods are used. Often my 'good' wood is the mill ends of alder we buy for firewood.

For practice even old pallets would be good. If you plan to keep your practice pieces, then better wood is worth it. Often my practice was done on scraps and when finished they were cut of to practice another set.

Here HD #2 pine is about $2/bf. A short drive down the road and #3 pine is about $0.89/bf. Not much more time is spent looking through the piles for the better boards.

jtk

[Hilton Ralphs]

It's funny seeing you post Jim when I know you're about to go to bed and I'm about to go to work.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have some cherry, poplar, oak and some marginal walnut. The HD pine is a little tough to work with but I don't want to waste even poplar until I get a little practice in.

Off hand, that looks good enough to start doing some things you will keep. I practiced on some boxes in which I store chisels (as an example) and drawers that are not often visible. I am unsure where you live in Ohio, but a local woodcraft frequently has decent wood types for $2 a bf. I have some cherry and a few other things from there. This assumes, of course, that you have the ability to mill it yourself.

Looking forward to seeing some other things that you have built.

[Jim Koepke]

It's funny seeing you post Jim when I know you're about to go to bed and I'm about to go to work.

It is amazing to be able to communicate around the world in such a fashion.

Good night,good morning,

jtk

[Adam Cruea]

Those are very very good for a first go and honestly quite good for anything other than a dovetail that will be used as a visual displayed. My first few I split the boards!

BTW, no harm in trying to fix that gap you circled. Fixing mistakes is and even better skill than not making them. You can either peen it or shim it depending on how big it is.

My preferred method to cover up a gap like that (not extremely large) is to sand the surface and wipe it down with mineral spirits. The dust will start to fill up that gap and it won't be so noticeable.

And ditto what Chris has said. . .fixing is much more valuable than aiming for perfection.

[Daniel Rode]

My preferred method to cover up a gap like that (not extremely large) is to sand the surface and wipe it down with mineral spirits. The dust will start to fill up that gap and it won't be so noticeable.

And ditto what Chris has said. . .fixing is much more valuable than aiming for perfection.

Thanks Adam. I didn't expect the box to come out as well as it did, so I just ignored the gap. Looking back, I should have fixed it. Practice fixing mistakes is just as important as practicing technique. It was a bit too wide to fix with dust (1/16/" or so). I would have glued a small piece onto the short pin and remarked/recut it.