Used Felder AD741 vs. New Hammer A3-31 with Silent Power Cutter Block

[Tim Hibler]

If the cost was the same which would you rather have?

The 10 year old Felder AD741 has Power Drive and is in pretty nice shape but it needs new blades and some adjustments. The alternative is a brand new Hammer A3-31 with the Silent Power (spiral) cutter block.

How big of a deal is the Silent Power cutter block vs the robust nature of the AD 741?

I am a hobbyist and I am putting together a wood shop that I will probably have for the rest of my life. I do not have any plans for exotic woods other than figured, domestic hardwoods.

I guess the real question is how big of a deal is the new Felder Silent Power spiral cutter head?

Thanks.

[mreza Salav]

The answer to me is obvious: AD741, I wouldn't even think for a second.
go for the Felder, bigger/better machine.

[Albert Lee]

I would say check the condition of the machine, if it has been abused, go for the new Hammer. if its been sitting around in a storage(unlikely?) collecting dust, then the AD741.

[Ralph Butts]

I own an A3-41 with a Silent Power Cutter Block and I LOVE IT. If an AD741 in good shape was available in my area at the time I was making my purchase I would have gone with the Felder.

[Erik Loza]

The AD7-41, no question about it.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Hawxhurst]

i would get the ad741 over the hammer.

[Rod Sheridan]

The 741 is a great machine, and the stock quick change cutter head works very well.

The A3-31 with the new cutter block is great, even if just for the noise reduction.

The Hammer will last your lifetime as a hobby user, so will the Felder.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Felder equipment, however it's not always the optimum solution for a hobby shop.

Consider the size/weight and lack of spiral head, plus lack of warranty...............Both machines will make you very happy...........Rod.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

The 741 is wider than the Hammer, has more options available, and is green, which is obviously better too :)

Seriously though, does the 741 have the digidrive or is it all manual adjustments? The electric bed adjustment is very nice, I'm sure glad I speced mine with it.

[Jeff Monson]

Just for the power drive alone, I would choose the AD741 all day, any day. I have owned an A3-31, and now an AD741, there really is no comparison on machines. I'd like to have the silent power head on my AD741 and may step up and buy one from Byrd down the road as Felder will not sell the head separately. The only downfall of the AD741 vs the 31 is space, its a much bigger and more massive machine.

[johnny means]

I have the AD-741s big brother, the 751, with digi-drive. I couldn't love this machine more. Not having to crank the tables up and down 8" every time I switch functions is sweeeeet. Also, the power drive allows for easy spot on repeatabilty. I don't even check my thicknessess anymore, 19mm is 19mm every single time.

[Craig Behnke]

i have the A3-31 with silent power cutter block. i like the cutter compared to straight blades because i work with a lot of figured wood and it has a lot less tear out. it doesn't eliminate it though. but yes, it makes a big difference IMO and it's pretty quiet relative to a straight blade machine. The silent power also helps reduce tearout if you aren't paying attention to feed direction of the grain.

one nice thing about straight blades on a 16inch jointer is that you can keep a few sets of blades for different uses and can switch for the task at hand and you can skew figured boards to reduce tear out.

as a hobby guy space may be a concern. check what your space is and that may help push you one way or the other.

Felder is dang good stuff, man, it's tough to pass one up. With high-end equipment that is used, it's rare to get it lightly used, so be aware you are more likely (but not guaranteed) to be in for maintenance costs sooner than you would be with a new Hammer. Facing your dilemma, I'd try to make an assessment of the person that used the machine. If you can visit their shop/place of business and see how they treat their machines, what condition they keep them in, that might give you a good idea of the condition it's in. What about service history? can you find out about that.

whatever you choose, you're going to have a sweet-azz setup.

just my 2 cents worth and i'm just a hobby guy with a few years experience so take my advice with a grain of salt.

congrats and good luck on the decision.

[Tim Hibler]

Thanks guys, great feedback. The AD741 does have power (digi) drive. It also has the Lenz (sp?) phase converter. It was used in a professional shop but there are no obvious signs of abuse and it has been sitting for a while because the owner started sourcing his products from overseas, ugh! I made the effort to go and see it in person and ran a few boards through it. It sounded great and everything seemed to work well. It needed new blades and there was some snipe, which I think can be adjusted out plus there were a few ripples that were caused by relatively careless feeding of the board. Once I took charge, reduced the depth of cut and oriented the grain properly the surface smoothed out nicely. I was using some 4/4 lightly figured cherry that was bone dry. There is a .0625" deep scratch right down the middle of the planer table and a corresponding one on the cutter block that was not as deep so something nasty went through it at some point in the past. I don't think either scratch will affect the cuts and there is shop near me that has a Blanchard grinder that could resurface the table if it came to that. The overall size will not be a problem even though I am in one stall of a three stall garage and will expand and contract as the projects dictate. Shipping something this big is always an issue but I recently went through it with a used saw and everything turned out OK, just expensive. Based on this additional info would any of you recommend that I do any further checking, run some measurements on it or whatever just to be sure everything is in alignment? If so, what key things would you measure? I don't know of a good reference for setting up/tuning up a Felder J/P so your experience will really help. By the way what tends to wear out/break first on a AD741? Thanks again.

[Erik Loza]

Tim, how Felder did "single-phase" on that machine was use a Lenze phase inverter (inside the machine) to generate a third leg off the single-phase supply, for the three-phase motors within the machine (both cutterhead and planer table drive motors). It was not a problematic setup or at least was not whan I was with Felder.

Regarding the scratches in the table and cutterhead, it's not worth resurfacing. Just get at them with some emery paper and a little oil, knock down any burrs. The valleys don't matter. Odds are that after any significant amount of board-feet over the machine, you will not even see them any more. As far as setup goes, you will need a decent straightedge (the longer the better) but it is not really different from any other jointer. The Felder Owner's Survival manual by David P. Best is excellent. I believe Cafe Press sells it. That discusses the 700-series calibrations in detail. The only other thing I recall is that the cutterhead has zerk fittings and calls for greasing on a scheduled basis. Felder calls out a specific grease in their catalog for this.

The 700-series are (or at least were) pretty bomb-proof so odds are that any real issue would have been imediately evident from a visual inspection/test run. Personally, I would jump on one of these if the price were the same as a Hammer. Night and day difference in build quality, it's a no brainer.

Good luck.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Tim Hibler]

Erik,

Thanks for all the good info. I have David's book and I agree it is very thorough and has some really good procedures. I am just starting to go through all of his recommendations for my saw. So far pretty good, just need to adjust some rulers and I might need to square up the X cut fence because a quick 5 cut test came out about .016" off on a 24" long board. Once that's done I need to check the slider but have to buy some indicators first.

By the way folks this forum is really good. Easy to navigate and multiple, good responses so thanks to the members and contributors and to whoever runs it, a special thanks!

Tim

[David Kumm]

I agree with Erik. I would check the Lenz converter. Some of the early machines came with one that was undersized. Felder will usually give you a deal on replacement for those but still not cheap. I doubt that is a problem as it was corrected later on but best to check. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

Yeah the AD-741 is the right choice. These machines don't really wear out unless abused.

[Loren Woirhaye]

If the electronics on a Felder jointer/planer go out, you're screwed. So I have read. I saw a 16" or 20" machine on an auction site with buggered electronics. I don't remember what it sold for as-is, but you can bet the buyer got a real headache getting the planer to work.

That said, I'm sure it's a superior machine to the Hammer unit.

[johnny means]

If the electronics on a Felder jointer/planer go out, you're screwed. So I have read. I saw a 16" or 20" machine on an auction site with buggered electronics. I don't remember what it sold for as-is, but you can bet the buyer got a real headache getting the planer to work.

That said, I'm sure it's a superior machine to the Hammer unit.

So true. Cost me 2K to replace the control unit on my machine. I doubt the power drive would be as expensive to repair as Digi-drive. BTW, my faulty wiring caused the problem.