Buffing after WOP?

[Roger Chandler]

I have this really nice walnut piece almost finished. I am waiting for the last coat of WOP to completely dry, and have moved the turning [still in the chuck] inside the house to be in a climate controlled environment and let sit overnight.

My question is about buffing with tripoli after the WOP. It has 3 coats on it now, and I do not want to do anything to mess this up, as it is a real beauty. I am looking to smooth out the finish and gloss it up a little.

What would be recommended for rpm's when buffing? Very light touch, or a little heavier touch to the buffing wheel? The tripoli that I got with the Beal system is about 3 years old, and is somewhat hard.........will that make any difference?

I still have to turn the tenon off the bottom of this thing, and I went through 4 complete sequences of sanding on this large piece.....it is a real looker and I wonder if the way to go is to buff it and then renwax it, or to wait and let this completely cure, put it back on the lathe for a little sanding back with very fine synthetic pad, and then put a last coat of WOP on it , and not buff at all?

Some of you stellar finishers here on SMC could really do me a favor with this one! ;):) It looks really good now, but I just want to step it up another notch........it is that pretty a piece! I am looking forward to showing this when I get it done! ;)

[Wally Wenzel]

I can't answer most of your questions but I have found that after wop has cured for 3-4 days it is very hard to buff out as it is a really hard finish. The Tripoli I have is hard as a rock so maybe that is part of my problem. I buff at about 1800 rpm with the Tripoli and then slower after that. Wally

[Scott Hackler]

Roger, I would let it cure out until it doesn't smell (for me it's about 2-3 days after the last coat). Then I knock it down with some 600, very lightly. Then with the lathe at about 600 I buff with Tripoli and then White Diamond (unless it's a porous wood or a very dark wood). Works pretty well for me and produces a SMOOTH finish with a deep luster.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Roger,
Skip the white diamond unless the pores are really filled with finish. Any little pores will fill with the white compound and make you kind of angry.
faust

[Roger Chandler]

Yeah Faust..........it is dark wood...........walnut, so white diamond is out of the question. This piece really looks good now, and I don't want to mess it up.........it is one of the best I have ever done, and it is going to one of the ladies at our church......she saw a smaller piece I did and asked for one to be made for her, but this one is much larger and a beauty of a piece.

Scott, you mentioned let it cure until the smell is gone.......it still has that odor as the last coat on it went on this afternoon..........I am not sure I want to sand this back any unless it is ever so lightly with a very fine grit synthetic pad. Do you put another coat of WOP on it or do you just buff it out and it leaves the shine after you sand back?

[Fred Belknap]

Roger it seems most people have there way of doing the finish. I use at least 3 and sometimes more coats of very light WOP after the first coat which I saturate and let set a few minutes then wipe it all off. I tripoli buff at about 600rpm then I wax and buff with carnuba. I think buffing is important to get a smooth feeling surface. WOP doesn't really feel smooth until it is buffed. I wouldn't wait more than a day or two. The buffing never hurts and almost always helps.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger it seems most people have there way of doing the finish. I use at least 3 and sometimes more coats of very light WOP after the first coat which I saturate and let set a few minutes then wipe it all off. I tripoli buff at about 600rpm then I wax and buff with carnuba. I think buffing is important to get a smooth feeling surface. WOP doesn't really feel smooth until it is buffed. I wouldn't wait more than a day or two. The buffing never hurts and almost always helps.

Thanks for the info, Fred. Do you buff after the first heavy coat or before the last coat or after the last coat of WOP?

[Bruce Pratt]

If you are using gloss WOP (applied with lint-free cloth, i.e., no brush marks) there may not be much advantage to buffing. I do not use sandpaper between WOP coats, just coarse brown paper (grocery bags) to knock back the roughness. BTW 3 coats is probably the minimum, if you have time, a couple more coats might be a good idea. Also, if the piece is going to get much handling, WOP is a more durable finish than Ren Wax.

[Marc Himes]

I use a lot of Gloss Wipe On Poly and use Micromesh 2400-3200 between coats and after the last coat. I usually use about 6 coats and get a very smooth finish.

[Fred Belknap]

Do you buff after the first heavy coat or before the last coat or after the last coat of WOP?

I don't usually buff till I'm finished putting on the WOP but sometimes if it feels a little rough I will go over it lightly with steel wool 0000 or fine sandpaper.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

I'm not a big fan of WOP but I know lots of turners love it. I never got good results. I finally figured out you can not sand between coats because the next coat doesn't melt into the previous coat as does lacquer. Last week a club member did a finishing demo. His finishes are always admirable and he swears by WOP. His secret was to lightly buff with tripoli between coats. We asked if the residue affects the next coat and he told us it was not a concern. I haven't tried it but I expect I will. His finish is deep and scratch free.
faust

[Russell Neyman]

Faust hit the nail on the head. Going back to my.Valspar finishes days, I can tell you that there is a recoat window (24-72 hours usually) and after the previous coat has become cured you MUST SAND to get adequate bond.

I'm a lacquer guy and only "wander" into WOP-land occasionally, but have good results polishing with the Beal System after it has cured. If you go too soon you absolutely run the risk of burning throng the poly.

Expanding the scope of this discussion, I've actually buffed with red and white compounds and THEN applied shellac and WOP with great results. Anyone else tried that?

[Scott Hackler]

Roger,

just to add to the discussion, here is my process for using WOP:

1) Sand item to 400-600
2) apply thinned Shellac mixture as a sanding sealer
3) the next day sand the entire piece with 600, wipe clean
4) apply coat of WOP with a paper towel folded until it is a thin strip and I fully saturate the end that will touch the wood
5) wait 24 hours, sand back with 600
6) apply next coat
7) repeat steps 3-6 until you have a minimum of 5 coats.
8) wait 2-3 day minimum until the poly doesn't have a strong smell
9) sand with 600
10) Beal buff
11) apply Ren wax to finish, buff wax with a micro fiber cloth


I don't like finishing on the lathe very often because once parted off the bottom is unfinished and that creates more work. Expecially problematic when applying dye to a piece (bottom is left natural and no matter how hard you try you cant blend the dye). So I usually finisht the turning completely and finish it off the lathe. On hollow forms I just put a pencil or small diameter piece of wood in a wood clamp and place the piece on this pencil to dry (through the hole)


Also remember, WOP or just straight poly does NOT melt into itself like Lacquer. You need to "scuff it up" for the next coat to bond. If the finish is not "scuffed up" you can get layer separation. I sand after the last coat to smooth and knock off high spots.

Good luck

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks for your sequence Scott.............most helpful!!!

[robert baccus]

Forget sandpaper and try high quality(3M) sanding sponges once you get to finishing. The 1/4" thick suckers. 200 grit cuts like 300 sandpaper ect. They are very flexible and wet sand to a sellable finish if you like a flat finish. I usually sand to 220 but do go to 400-600 if needed. This followed by a wax, over lacq. or WOP leaves a great semi-gloss finish. Put a bit of soap in your sanding water for sure. Try auto liquid polishes to avoid burns and smears on finishes. Good luck

[Stan Smith]

I've just tried minwax wop for the first time. I got the idea from a guy who did videos on how to turn peppermills. He put on 4 coats over 4 days and did a buffing with the Beall system.

I didn't want to take a chance and mess up my project either--that's why I chose the wop after watching the video. The instructions say to sand between coats, but I used 00 synthetic wool instead--very lightly and feeling for the non-smooth spots. I also lightly wiped with a tack cloth each time. I didn't buff, but the satin finish looks okay to me. YMMV. I had been using Deft, applying coats and drying and polishing on the lathe. I like the wop not having fumes.

[robert baccus]

Don't take this as criticism--I've never done WOP but have seen a lot of finished bowls. I really don't believe the very hardest and longest way to do a job is necessarily the best. I can do a museum finish, on a dry day, With SS and lacquer in 4 hours. Dried, wet sanded and compounded to a mirror gloss and most of that is drying time. Also lacq. is very easy to repair and melts in to a single coat with no delaming or drying/sanding schedules. Am I missing something--it would not be the first time.

[Prashun Patel]

I am with you, robert. Turners get away with using wop because they can buff their finishes in a way flat worlders cannot. This allows them to overcome some of the plasticky look that wop built up thick otherwise gives.

[Russell Neyman]

Me, too. Lacquer has been my finish of choice for turnings, but I see the extremely shiny work at the turners' meeting and wonder, "Hmm... maybe WOP is worth a try." So, for a few weeks, I tinker with it, but because it simply has a different, slightly plastic FEEL, I go back to lacquer.

Poly certainly has advantages: it's cheap, tolerant of high humidity (lacquer isn't), and builds quickly. The buff-ability is a plus. I use it for my tables, cabinets, and some furniture, but not for bowls.