Sawstop question

[Dale Turner]

Alright, so I'm about to bite the bullet and get a sawstop cabinet saw for the shop. Of course I want the 3hp 52 inch version, but funds are tight. This will be my first 'real' table saw and I want to make the right call on it. Can you guys give me some feedback on the different versions and your experience with them to help me chose the right one? My main question is the 1.75hp motor and is that enough for cabinet making? I'm already stressing the budget as it is so a thousand dollar difference is a big deal.

What does everyone think?

[Prashun Patel]

You do have 220v available, right?

For cabinet making, where you're cutting predominantly < 1" and a lot of plywood, the 1.75hp will be fine.

If you need to rip hardwood > 2", then you will notice a difference (I did, when I switched from my Jet ProShop 1.75hp to a SS PCS).

By the same token, if you are doing a lot of sheet goods, then the wider rail can be a boon. However, I find it more ergonomic, safer, and space-optimal to use a circular saw for breakdown.

[Sam Murdoch]

Not speaking to the Saw Stop specifically but a 1 3/4 HP table saw is plenty powerful for cabinetmaking and much more. In line with Prashun, I think that for partsing out sheet goods a much better investment is a good track saw and a flat table.

I'm sure that the 3HP Saw Stop is an awesomely stable and accurate saw - just saying that you can do soooo much with a smaller saw especially if you are not running a commercial production type shop. I'd rather spend the money on a good bandsaw (later) and the track saw sooner. I have been building cabinetry long before track saws were available. The track saw in MHO is revolutionary as to processing sheet goods. Not so much for solid wood but for that woodworking there is the table saw and/or bandsaw.

[Rick Potter]

One thing to watch out for is the fence. There is a less expensive fence on the 1.75 version, at least there was a few months ago.

Rick Potter

[Jim Barstow]

I second the smaller table and a track saw. I have a ss table saw and with an incra fence on the smaller table. It is incredible accurate. I can't imagine trying to wrestle a sheet of plywood onto a bigger table. I sprung for a festool track saw to break plywood down into manageable pieces.

[glenn bradley]

There is an element of interpretation to the term "cabinet making". I think plywood when I hear cabinet making but, that is not what everyone thinks. I ran a Craftsman zipcode saw with 1-3/4HP for many years and it always did what I asked of it. I use little in the way of sheet goods and composites. I work mostly in hardwoods. With a good rip blade and the saw well tuned I could rip 8/4 beech without issue so the power was always adequate.

When I moved to a Saw Stop I went ahead and went with the 3HP, 52" model and couldn't be happier. Having a Beisemeyer on the previous saw, the fence was as important to me as other features of the saw when trying to decide. If you go with the lower powered saw, I think you will do fine as long as you keep your cutters sharp. I would opt for the better fence as in my humble opinion, after the saw's ability to be properly aligned, the fence is the second thing in importance; power comes in third being neck and neck with dust collection capability ;-)

You could just use my method for talking myself into things . . . let's see, $1000 more for the saw I really want. If I use the saw at least 3 hours per week for the next ten years, that's only 64 cents an hour. Yep, get the 3HP!

[Keith Hankins]

Of course you are asking an for an opinion so you will get a bunch I'd bet. As someone who's been down the road quite a few times, I'll say get the most saw you can. I have never ever seen anyone say to me. Dang that saw is just too powerful. However, I've seen many a folk say "I could just kick myself for not spending a little more and getting what I wanted". I can only see going the 1.75 is if you cannot do 220v. Plain and simple. I've had the small saws, and had a 3hp for over 10years. No comparison at all. If you have to have the safety part and I like it, then don't sacrifice saw to get it. Go save a little longer and get what you want! Now you say cabinet making, and you will only cut ply and 1" stock you could do that easily. I think you will find yourself starting to expand your horizons and you will push the limits of the 1.75 saw. I've got a 3 hp griz with 7' rails but would like to have a 5 hp. You can also think if budget is the issue, of getting an old american piece of iron that you can get for a song and use that while you save. Sorry for the long winded response, but I settled once for contractor saw and it was the worst regret of my life. Good luck.

[mreza Salav]

Cry once and buy the 3HP if you have 220V. You'd appreciate having it when you are ripping 2" thick material (unless you only make cabinets and nothing else).
The money will be long forgotten in the years you'll be using it. I have managed to stall my 3HP (SS) a few times when pushing a little too fast some 3" maple into it (and wished had 5HP) but those occasions are very rare compare to 1.75HP vs. 3HP.

[Mike Henderson]

I appreciate the funding problem. But a cabinet saw is likely to be a lifetime purchase. I'd also recommend you bite the bullet and get the 3Hp cabinet saw if you have 230V available to it. It's a great saw.

Mike

[Mark Churay]

After looking over the various Saw Stop models I decided on the PCS 3 HP 36" saw. I saw the fence in the 1.75 HP saw and the better fence was a deciding factor for me. I don't cut 4 x 8 sheets on the table saw and the 52" is really eats up the space. Once I breakdown plywood with a circular saw then I use the table saw. I had a 1.75 HP saw (not Saw Stop) and found that cutting any thick hardwood was a pain. Also spend the extra money and get the Industrial Mobile Base. I will say that Saw Stop has the easiest assembly and setup. Be sure that you have a set of metric wrenches. You'll need a 13,14 and 17mm. A set of Gear Wrenches was very helpful. They provide the Allen wrenches though I used a set that I fit on a 3/8" ratchet at times. I found a "U" joint for the ratchet useful. I didn't have any issues with the blade to miter slot or fence setup. This is one of best setup saws out of the box I've ever seen. I used a 1/16th piece of steel to set up the rip fence tube and it was right in the money. This is one really superior saw. Only gripe (and I have this for all saws ) is the rear fence on the right does not go to the end of the 36" extension exposing the MDF & pine corner to damage. I may graft some steel angle there. Have done that before. The OEM blade is made in China and I replaced it and didn't even put it on the saw. Finally be sure to get some help during unpacking and putting on the CI wings. They are heavy. It takes 3-4 guys to put the saw on the Industrial Base too.
Mark

[johnny means]

congrats. Let me say, YOU SUCKI think you'll be very happy with your decision. A little more power and less fence, IMO is the way to go.

[Bill Space]

I don't think the OP has responded since posting...

But I would ask why a Saw Stop if funds are limited? Granted the technology is top notch. But it only comes into play if the body part contacts the blade. And even then there is no guarantee... there have been recorded instances (maybe only a couple) where fingers were lost (or parts of fingers, don't remember the specifics now) with a saw stop saw.

Myself, I choose a Grizzly table saw. Funds available being one reason. I decided to pay attention and think ahead when working. To use push sticks and the riving knife, and hold downs, the blade guard, and so on. Figuring that I could minimize the potential for my fingers coming into close proximity or contacting the blade worst case. Can I error? Yep! Will I error? Hope not!!!

I guess my point is that if one does his best to work in a safe manner that minimizes the chances his fingers or hand will be pushed into the path of the blade, then the pay back for the extra cost of the Saw Stop table saw reduces significantly. IF funds are limited, one needs to consider the probabilities.

Personally, I could have purchased a Saw Stop table saw I suppose, but elected not to as I felt I could use the additional funds more productively for other purposes. Now if I lose a finger or worse in the future my error will be obvious. It has not happened in 40 years but it could.

At the end of the day, those who are most careless are the greatest benefactors of the Saw Stop technology. Where do you fit in as far as taking the utmost precautions OR being cavalier when using your table saw?

I only offer this perspective because the OP mentioned his concern for funds available...if one wants to do his best to minimize the chances of physical harm...well then the ultimate answer would be not to turn the table saw on. Point being there is no guarantee that one will not be injured even with the Saw Stop technology...

Can safe operating practices balance favorable against Saw Stop technology? Heck, I don't really know. But in my case I think they can...but where is the proof? I don't have it...

There was a past post here regarding a lawsuit filed against (or somehow related to the Saw Stop technology, don't remember which) which pointed out physical harm suffered even with the saw stop technology. Sorry I don't have a link... a search may turn it up if one is interested. Surprised me...

My only point is there is more to being safe in the shop than just using technology that attempts to prevent damage AFTER an event occurs. If one's resources are limited, perhaps acting in a manner that will reduce the likelihood of a bad thing happening will net the same result at less monetary cost.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant...it is not meant to be...if Saw Stop technology were free and replacement parts and blades were free, who would not use it? To me it boils down to simple economics... Does the benefit out weigh the cost for a given individual? Each of us must come to our own decision.

Just some thoughts for the OP to consider...

[Mike Henderson]

At the end of the day, those who are most careless are the greatest benefactors of the Saw Stop technology. Where do you fit in as far as taking the utmost precautions OR being cavalier when using your table saw?
I've heard of a number of people who were very experienced woodworkers who had a serious table saw accident, some after 40 years of woodworking. They're called "accidents" for a reason.

I look at the SawStop as insurance. If something happens and my hand gets into the blade, the technology is there to back me up. And if I ever have an accident, the extra cost of the SawStop will be well worth it.

Mike

[Kyle Iwamoto]

At the end of the day, those who are most careless are the greatest benefactors of the Saw Stop technology. Where do you fit in as far as taking the utmost precautions OR being cavalier when using your table saw?
...


And I thought this was going to be free from Sawstop bashing. You don't even know how others work, and you call me and other careless? I take care and plan every cut. Just because my saw has a brake, I am FAR from CARELESS. I hope I never use that feature. I am glad I have it.

Good luck in remaining free from accidents.

[Mac Cambra]

I agree with Mike, accidents happen, vigilant adherence to all safety precautions is what we all try to ensure regardless of the saw we own ( I have a SS ICS, ~5 years) but the fact is lapses happen. Most times we're lucky and nothing happens but all you need is one unlucky day.

The other point I want to make, my previous saw, a 3HP Delta Unisaw, I purchased it new from Woodworker's Supply for about $1450. I used the saw for about 5 years prior to upgrading to my Sawstop. I sold the Unisaw for $1200, had upgraded the splitter to a Biesemeyer, etc., probably all told $1700 in materials. The net cost of the saw after 5 years of use was only about $500. I guess my point is good tools hold their value especially when the are well cared for and maintained. If you ever decide to part with the tool you can easily recover a good portion of the investment. Something to keep in mind, its not like you are throwing the money away, its just changing form.

How's that for justifying an expensive tool? I really do need help don't I?:D

[Dale Turner]

I haven't replied honestly because I have really enjoyed the discussion of people who own the saws themselves. The suggestions of track saws was a good one, and it sent me researching those yesterday. My conclusion is that I still think I will want a table saw... and if I want a table saw then the saw stop is the way to go. I do have 220 available, or I will. My project this weekend is running a subpanel for my shop. Then I will run whatever wires I need from there.

As for the sawstop taking the place of safety... well that really doesn't make sense. I don't think anyone would be 'cavalier' with a saw. To me it would be more cavalier to think that I won't ever make a mistake. The sawstop is insurance. I also chose them because they are very well built saws. My father has one and I've been using it for over a year so I'm also familiar with it, which makes it a logical choice for me.

I really like the discussion and the feedback. I do work with solid wood quite a bit in addition to plywood, so I think the 3hp is probably the right choice for me.

Thanks for the input guys!

[Christoph Brehm]

I just purchased a SawStop at Amazon. The contractor version with 1.75hp, the 37" table extension and the the mobile base as well as the upgraded fence system.
I am not a professional wood worker, it has to go in my basement and I don't have 220V available in my basement. Those are the reasons to buy the contractor version with "less" horse power.
I have seen the saw (the contractor version) at Woodcraft in Harrisburg, this saw is heavy and sturdy and appears to be high quality. There is the option to buy cast iron extension wings and together with the upgraded fence system there seems to be not much difference to the professional cabinet version with the same hp.
This will be also my first real table saw. I did work with real table saw's before and I have a mini version from Proxxon to cut wood for RC planes.
However, I think for my hobby purposes this saw is already the overkill. My initial plan was to get Bosch contractor saw and build a work table around. Cost would have been around 800$ including the saw, material for the table and other stuff. "Unfortunately" during some research where to get the best price on the Bosch saw I found the SawStop video. Now I am paying 1200$ more just for the saw, but it seems to be a great tool and I am happy that I made that decision.


In terms of the safety feature..
I still remember when the first cars with ABS system showed up on the market. The discussion was pretty similar.

I am driving cars for years, I am an very experienced driver, I don't need ABS. If the car is equipped with an ABS system people will drive even faster and they care less about the condition of the street or the distance to the car ahead of them. We will see more accidents then.

Is there still a serious discussion over the usefulness of ABS systems in our days?

For my part I do know that the day could come when Murphys Law hits my shop, I do not know if it will strike at the table saw or any other machine. What I certainly do know is, if it strike's at the table saw the injury will most likely very bad.

Chris

[Paul McGaha]

I'm a hobbyist and started with a contractor saw. Mine was from Ridgid and it was either 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 HP.

I kept it a few years and upgraded to a 3 HP Unisaw w a 52"Biesmeyer Fence.

I'm sure that Sawstop makes a nice contractors saw. I think Powermatic does too.

Personally I really like a cabinet saw. The power, the mass of it, most of them come with a nice fence system, I think it's easier to collect dust from a cabinet saw than a contractors saw.

In any case it sounds like a nice saw is coming your way. Congratulations on that and good luck with picking out a saw.

PHM

[Shawn Pixley]

I bought the SS contractor saw a number of years ago. The PCS wasn't available then. Today I would buy the PCS. I upgraded to CI wings, mobility base, 37" extension, and upgraded fence. I need to move it a lot in the garage / shop. I cut all manner of stock on it (up to 12/4). Would 3HP be useful? Yes. Do I need 3HP? No. I am a hobbyist and seldom cut plywood.

The only times I have wanted more HP was when ripping highly reactive wood. Even with the saw well tuned, the blade sharp, and the riving knife on, the wood can want to close on the blade.

If I were doing this again, what would I get? I'd buy the 3 HP PCS and get to work. I would likely stay "old school or Neander" untill I could afford the right saw for me. YMMV

[J.R. Rutter]

I have had a 3 HP Sawstop for several years, and have experienced one finger save and one misfire. It seems like I may be the only one wishing for even more power. Originally, I bought two brand new Sawstops at an auction, one 3 HP and one 5HP. I decided to sell the 5 HP and have regretted it whenever I have to resaw or take a big buried cut in solid wood with a blade that could use sharpening. Like Shawn said, if you see yourself cutting construction lumber, cedar, or other wood that has tension, you will be glad for the extra HP. The last time I did someone a favor and cut bevels on long cedar 2x6s for railing caps, I must have triggered the motor overload 5-6 times.

Get the 3 HP and be done with it. It is a great saw.

[mreza Salav]

I have had a 3 HP Sawstop for several years, and have experienced one finger save and one misfire. It seems like I may be the only one wishing for even more power. Originally, I bought two brand new Sawstops at an auction, one 3 HP and one 5HP. I decided to sell the 5 HP and have regretted it whenever I have to resaw or take a big buried cut in solid wood with a blade that could use sharpening. Like Shawn said, if you see yourself cutting construction lumber, cedar, or other wood that has tension, you will be glad for the extra HP. The last time I did someone a favor and cut bevels on long cedar 2x6s for railing caps, I must have triggered the motor overload 5-6 times.

Get the 3 HP and be done with it. It is a great saw.

You are not alone. I have a 3HP ICS version and if I could choose now I'd opt for the 5HP one (which is usually only a $100 or two more).

[Earl Rumans]

OP I looked into getting the SS before I bought my Jet. If you are planning on running it on 220 then go for the 3 hp version. By the time you upgrade the fence and buy the upgrade kit to run the 1.75 on 220 you are only a little under the price of the 3 hp saw.

[John Sanford]

As an FYI, per SawStop: You can get the 1.75hp PCS and later replace the motor with the 3hp. The only really good reason to get the 1.75hp rather than the 3hp is if you can't get 220-240v to the saw.

If it were me (and it almost has been), I would get the 3hp PCS with the 36" fence. A lot of users here have gotten saws with 52" fences and found the additional benefits not worth the additional cost, and most importantly, space. The 52" fence is primarily useful when working with full sheets of plywood, and many have chosen to use a circular saw for busting down sheetgoods. As always, YMMV.

[Bill Space]

Hi,

I was not going to add an additional post to this thread, but after thinking about it a couple days it just bugged me that someone would accuse me of calling them careless, especially since I have no clue who they are except for their name here, so I would have no reasonable way of calling anyone here anything, including that person.

If you will re-read my original post, you will notice that I called the SawStop technology top notch, but expensive. And brought economic considerations up. And tried to contrast the risk-benefit with the cost of the machine, as something for the original poster to consider.

Now if one thinks that we all operate our machines in similar manners, I suggest you do a search here for a thread on "free hand cutting on a table saw" or find a YouTube video where a guy recreates a kick back that he experienced previously, and nearly looses a finger in the process (or worse).

My point was simply that those who are careless in the way they operate machinery are those that are most likely to benefit from technology that will protect them.

I think this is a valid point. It should not be written off as "saw stop bashing" as it in not that at all.

Someone else mentioned wearing seatbelts and using airbags in automobiles. Implying that my comments would indicate that there is no reason not to use automotive technology from the 50's in today's world. Again, that is not the case and is a distortion of reality. Many of the vehicles we drive today do have seat belts and front air bags, but do they have active restraints, multiple air bags, crumple designs that absorb energy while the passenger compartment is protectively rigid, and so on? Well, no the cheaper cars do not, for the most part, but we still buy and use them. Why? Because the economics dictates that we do...or we do not buy at all. If we are smart, we buy what we can afford and we drive more defensively and hope for the best.

Anyway, the only reason for this follow up post is to clarify, that I was not, and could not possibly, accuse anyone of being careless in there activities, if I do not know them. And to point out that like it or not, economics does play a part in the decisions of many of us. We all do not have enough resources to buy everything we would like to. Sad but true.

So I personally elected to buy two nice tools in place of one, and to make an extra effort to use all the guards and maximum common sense when using them. To each his own... Why does anyone want to condemn one way over the other? I myself do not wish to place a value judgement on anything...we all do what we feel is best for us and take whatever risks are associated with our decisions.

In the end it is all about cost, risk and benefit...and maybe other things as well.

Bashing one product oven another has serves no constructive purpose, and was not done or intended in my original post.

Bill

[Robert Chapman]

I have the 1.75 hp Professional SawStop. I work with hardwoods and buy mostly 4/4 material. I have not had any problems cutting that size stock. I believe that the lower hp motor is another safety feature because it will stall if the cut becomes too difficult instead of kicking the stock back at you. I have had this happen when ripping hardwood that has internal stresses that are freed up when ripping and the stock closes on blade -the blade just stops. Works for me.

The Sawstop is a magnificent saw. You will love it and so will your wife is she likes your fingers.

[J.R. Rutter]

Jiggity! :-)

[Glenn Vaughn]

I purchased the 1.75 HP SawStop contractor saw several years ago after a friend of mine had an accident with my Ryobi BT 3000 tablesaw. Even though the injury was minor (as opposed to losing fingers), the hospital bill came to $1800. I had been thinking about getting the SawStop for several years but could not justify the cost. After the accident I was motivated to purchase the SawStop.



I purchased the cast-iron wings, 37 inch extension table and upgraded fence. Since purchasing the SawStop we have done quite a few projects including kitchen cabinets, a Murphy bed and numerous small projects. The kitchen cabinets were built using Kentucky coffeetree; a would almost as hard as Maple. We have also cut a lot of pine and popular and plywood with no problems.



We have been impressed with the accuracy of the SawStop and have experienced no problems. As mentioned by a previous poster, it is possible to stall the saw when cutting thicker wood or wood with a lot of stress in it. I have no regrets about the SawStop purchase and would do it again in a heartbeat.

[Matt Meiser]

the hospital bill came to $1800

Add that onto the $1500 for a Grizzly and the Sawstop is actually cheaper. How much work did he miss? How much did he have to pay someone else to do while he healed? Obviously its buying insurance but we buy life insurance, health insurance, homeowners insurance, health insurance, etc, etc, etc and pay a lot more a year than the one-time Sawstop purchase cost us. Not to mention that the Sawstop is a REALLY NICE saw and Sawstop has outstanding customer service (based on an experience a friend had after buying what turned out to be a neutered Sawstop in a too-good-to-be-true Craigslist deal.) I'd been thinking about one for a while as insurance but really had trouble getting over the owner's politics. After seeing the response to my friend's buy my wife and I talked to a factory rep at a show and a couple owners and decided it was time. I bought a 3HP/36" fence model and couldn't be happier. Since I use a Festool saw and MFT for most of my sheet goods work the 36" fence is plenty. I'll admit I really don't know much about any other new saw on the market but besides the obvious safety feature, the SS also has a lot of other really nice features. All of the operator controls are well-engineered, the dust collection is great, fit and finish is great, and the optional integrated mobile base is really nice too even if you rarely move your saw. All current saws have a riving knife which should be reducing instances of kickback when properly used.

Speaking of dust collection...figure in the cost of the dust-collecting blade guard if you by the 1.75HP model. That was an extra-cost item back in January if you bought the 1.75HP but included on the 3HP. I was really happy with the Shark Guard I used to have but this is even better.

Once concern I had going in was extra changeover time but in reality I've found that all my blades I use regularly require no adjustment of the brake. Switching the dado brake takes maybe an extra 10-15s. Probably my only complaint is that I miss the old premium blade nut/washer from my unisaw that had an unthreaded portion that made it a lot easier to start the nut and a lot harder to drop it. I've dropped the Sawstop nut several times and it always goes right down the dust collection hose.

[Richard Wagner]

I don't see where anyone is bashing Saw Stop, Kyle. You may be a bit over sensitive in this area of discussion.

[Keith Hankins]

I have a 3hp grizzly with 7' rails and it has served me well for 10+ years. I'm still watching the used market for a 5hp ICS to come up but none do. I will pull the trigger when that is possible. I had the local woodcraft hint they would consider selling there ICS they have in their shop may consider it and sell the griz to offset the cost. But for now, I'm ok with the griz.

[Mike Delyster]

I've dropped the Sawstop nut several times and it always goes right down the dust collection hose.

Matt I've had a 5hp ICS in my shop since 2007 and that is my only complaint with the saw.

[J.R. Rutter]

Magnet on a string retrieves that quickly and easily...

[Matt Meiser]

Mine usually rolls out the back of the saw into the hose attached to the port and most of the way to where that attaches to pipe!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Matt,

I have a Ridgid TS3650 which has a blade shroud under the table top and if I drop the nut, it requires removing the hose to get it.

[Rick Potter]

Hey Matt,


Why don't you put a few rare earth magnets on a piece of Masonite or whatever, and stick it to the floor of the saw ahead of the outlet. I wouldn't use real strong magnets though, might be hard to get the nut off.

Just a thought.
Rick Potter

[Roy Turbett]

I'm about to trade my 23 year old 3hp Unisaw and cash for a 5hp Professional Model Sawstop thats about 7 years old. This appears to be the same saw as the current Commercial Model. Is there anything I should be aware of before I make the trade?

[Lee Reep]

I'd suggest looking at the SawStop website for model info. The PCS (Professional Cabinet Saw) is their lower priced cabinet saw, and the ICS (Industrial Cabinet Saw) is their top of the line cabinet saw, at least currently. Not sure if they changed model names since the 7 year old model was made that you are considering. "Professional" and "Industrial" are certainly not real obvious descriptors of the differences.

[Jason White]

If you want this saw to be the last one you'll ever buy, get the 220-volt (3HP) version. The price isn't that different and you won't regret it one bit.

If you don't currently have 220-volts in your shop, it's no harder than installing a 110-volt circuit. Same type of cable, same number of conductors. You just need two empty circuit breaker slots in your electrical panel instead of one. I've run lots of circuits myself, both 110 & 220; it's an easy job. But if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, I doubt an electrician would charge you very much to install one.



Alright, so I'm about to bite the bullet and get a sawstop cabinet saw for the shop. Of course I want the 3hp 52 inch version, but funds are tight. This will be my first 'real' table saw and I want to make the right call on it. Can you guys give me some feedback on the different versions and your experience with them to help me chose the right one? My main question is the 1.75hp motor and is that enough for cabinet making? I'm already stressing the budget as it is so a thousand dollar difference is a big deal.

What does everyone think?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jason.....Dale started this thread over a year ago....I suspect he's either decided or gave up on the idea! Just my humble opinion.

[Mike Heidrick]

I'm about to trade my 23 year old 3hp Unisaw and cash for a 5hp Professional Model Sawstop thats about 7 years old. This appears to be the same saw as the current Commercial Model. Is there anything I should be aware of before I make the trade?
Nope it is awesome and the same as an ICS with the older brake interface and the older zero clearance throat plate. I own one from 2006 and have had zero issues.

[Roy Turbett]

Nope it is awesome and the same as an ICS with the older brake interface and the older zero clearance throat plate. I own one from 2006 and have had zero issues.

Thanks Mike. I made the trade today and am impressed by how smooth the saw runs. There is no vibration and the blade is whisper quiet. The only thing missing is the riving knife and blade guard. I also need a spare regular cartridge and a dado cartridge. I'm going to contact Sawstop tomorrow with my serial number so I get the right parts.