New bandsaw - pulling wheels & pulley

[Matt Day]

Good news first (gloat) - I snagged a used Powermatic 2013 20" bandsaw for $400 which I'm very excited about. There is no rust on the saw and appears to have been well taken care of.

Not so good news:
1) It has some damage to the upper guide gears/handwheel from when the PO tipped it over while moving it, which is one of the reasons I got a good deal on it. Now that I've taken it apart I think I should be able to fix it for about $100 and it does not appear to be structural.
2) It's got a 3 phase 3 HP motor which is the other reason I got a good deal on it, so I'll be researching RPC's and VFD's.
3) It weighs 915 pounds so I have to strip off as much weight as possible to prep it to get it down a flight of stairs into my basement. I will probably rend a Powermate dolly for this.
3a) I can't seem to get off the lower wheel or the pulley. (see questions below) This would probably take off another 75 pounds.


Regarding the pulling of the wheel/pulley. For the pulley, I removed both set screws and shot PB Blaster in both holes as well as the keyway. The problem is that since the pulley has two speeds, it's quite thick and I can't grab it with my 3 jaw bearing puller. Does anyone know of a tool (or one I could make) that would PUSH the pulley off, using the "bearing base" you can see in the background of the photo (it's the piece that holds the bearings as well as attached the axle to the saw). I was thinking some kind of threaded rod device that expands as it is turned.

For the lower wheel that won't come off. I can find no evidence of a set screw (the top didn't have one, and the exploded diagram in the manual doesn't show one), and have been using PB Blaster to no avail. I stripped a bearing puller trying to pull it off.

If I can get either the wheel or pulley off, I can pull the axle through to make it easier to get the other off.

Thanks for your help in advance!

P.S. Where has Van gone off to? I miss his expertise and would really appreciate his input on this.

[HANK METZ]

It's not uncommon to find pulleys that have back to back setscrews inserted, either by manufacturer's design or "insurance" by a p.o. A torch on the hub may be beneficial also, a little heat tends to free things up.

[Richard Coers]

So your $400 bandsaw is going to cost how much? VFD, dolley rental, parts.......I don't like that pulley. Usually, the set screw lines up with the keyway. Yours is off to the side. That means there will be metal deformation where the set screw dug into the shaft. That means lot of force to pull the pulley over that burr and get it off. I'd apply some heat and get a bigger puller.

[Matt Day]

I hope the bandsaw will cost me less than $750 to get it up and running, which includes costs for parts and all new bearings, as well as a DIY RPC.

Regarding the set screws, one of them aligns with the keyway but not the other one. I agree with you on the metal deformation - that could be part of the reason it's hard to take off, but the set screw was not that tight.

I think I'll take some heat to it. All I have is a small propane torch I've used a few times for sweating copper pipes. How long should I apply the heat for?

Thanks,
Matt

[Richard Coers]

First I would pack a wet rag around the bearing plate/shaft, to limit heat soaking back into it. Then try a little heat, see if it moves, then more heat. I would guess that you will need enough heat that you will easily burn off the paint.

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm going to come at this from a different direction....if the wheel and pulley are in good shape I'd leave them alone! Instead I would build a make shift crate to "cradle" the bandsaw and slide it down the stairs, vs taking it all apart and having to put it back together.....I've never been a fan of taking things apart for weight reduction anyway;) Sliding it on a sturdy base is the easiest way I can think of the get something down a flight of stairs in one piece. You can utilize numerous options for assistance, rope w/ block and tackle, chain fall, several good buddies...etc., etc..

good luck,
JeffD

[Matt Day]

I hear you Jeff, but I enjoy taking apart machinery to clean it up so I know it's in good working order, especially on a used machine. And my first thought was to slide it down the stairs on plywood, but since it's so heavy and awkward I'm worried about going from horizontal to tipping down to the angle of the stairs. I also don't have a good anchor point for a come along or block and tackle. Using an electric dolly keeps it at the same angle as rolling it (basically).

[John Nesmith]

So your $400 bandsaw is going to cost how much? VFD, dolley rental, parts......

Parade sufficiently rained upon.

[george newbury]

So your $400 bandsaw is going to cost how much? VFD, dolley rental, parts.......I don't like that pulley. Usually, the set screw lines up with the keyway. Yours is off to the side. That means there will be metal deformation where the set screw dug into the shaft. That means lot of force to pull the pulley over that burr and get it off. I'd apply some heat and get a bigger puller.
C'mon - Don't throw the cost of a VFD in if he's building an RPC (he wrote
I'll be researching RPC's and VFD's).
If he builds a decent RPC he's then open to the wide world of used inexpensive industrial tools being excessed by high schools all over the nation.

[Ronald Blue]

One possibility would be a bearing separator that is two halves that clamp behind the pulley. I don't know how big of diameter the pulley's are so that might foil that option. Another possibility would be to wedge behind the pulley. Try to keep the pressure near the shaft or center of the pulley though. Pulley's can be broken. I see no evidence of rust so I wouldn't think it would be ultra tight on a straight shaft.

[Matt Day]

Ronald, thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into making my own puller similar to a bearing puller - the pulley is too big for an automotive one.

John - as I said earlier in the thread, I hope to be under $750 with a DIY RPC. Whether that's a good price or not is subjective, but in the end I hope to have a great 20" bandsaw and that's what matters to me. No parade here, I'm just happy to get a new toy that I can fix up!

[Richard Coers]

You won't save a lot with the RPC over the VFD unless you can get surplus items. You'll need a 5HP 3Ph motor, and big bunch of capacitors, and a big steel box to mount the capacitors, and at least one heavy duty switch to control the 220v in. I added a small breaker box on the output side so I could wire more 3 ph machines to the buss bars in it. Bandsaws have a pretty hard current draw on start up, so do your homework. Probably 30 years ago, a friend thought he could do a static phase convertor for an ancient cast iron saw I bought. A capacitor really puts out a crazy plume of smoke when they blow under draw like that! Unless you plan on buying industrial surplus in the future, I would suggest you just buy a 3 hp single phase motor.

[Myk Rian]

I hear you Jeff, but I enjoy taking apart machinery to clean it up so I know it's in good working order, especially on a used machine.
Atta boy!!

[M Toupin]

Whether that's a good price or not is subjective

Lets see, You gave less than 9 cents on the dollar for a saw with a MSR $4800.00. Even if you have to put twice that much into it that's a good deal in my book...


Mike

[Phil Thien]

Lets see, You gave less than 9 cents on the dollar for a saw with a MSR $4800.00. Even if you have to put twice that much into it that's a good deal in my book...


Mike

Exactly. So many words have been redefined by the politically correct, let's not redefine the meaning of the word "gloat."

That bandsaw was a smoking good deal.

[Matt Day]

Thanks Mike and Phil! I thought so too even with some costs to get it up and running.

Richard - Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely make sure I do my research on the phase converter, likely over at Practical Machinist.

[Curt Harms]

Thanks Mike and Phil! I thought so too even with some costs to get it up and running.

Richard - Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely make sure I do my research on the phase converter, likely over at Practical Machinist.

There was a thread elsewhere about rotary phase converters. I believe one that got high marks for after sale support was phase-craft. They have an ebay store. For instance, they have a 10 h.p. panel for $189.18 (ebay #300526178147) if you could find a used 3 phase motor. The downside to a rotary phase converter compared to a VFD is you don't get programmable acceleration, decceleration, reversing, braking etc. Reversing is of no use on a bandsaw but the other things, particularly braking would be kinda handy.

[Matt Day]

Thanks for the heads up Curt. I'll search for that thread.
The saw has a brake and had a stepped pulley so I can change the speed if I need to. I hear you on the advantage though.

Has anyone used the Wyn phase converter panels? They have a 3 hp box (sans motor) for $121.

[Matt Day]

I had about 15 hours of windshield time to ponder my next step before hitting it with heat, and I thought why not make my own bearing puller? The cheap ones I have clearly weren't up to the task.

So this is pretty simple, 2" x 3" hard maple, some 3/8" threaded rod and a 3/8" bolt, some big washers (to "hook" the wheel/pulley), a t-nut, and a 3/8" dowel center marker to keep the bolt centered on the shaft. The clamp is to keep the rod and washers from bending and coming loose. It worked like a charm! There was some very light rust by the way.