Where to buy Phenolic Laminated Plywood, black (4x8' 5/8) in central PA

[Christoph Brehm]

Hello all,


I am not sure if I am in the right spot with my question, if not I would appreciate if one of the admins would move this thread to the right place.

I am planning to build a bookshelf. While a bookshelf itself is certainly not a to difficult task, it seems to be more difficult right now to get the planned material. The material should be phenolic laminated plywood, color black. I know that you can order phenolic laminated plywood from Woodcraft, Woodpecker or even Amazon, however the price is almost obscene and the size the stuff is sold is useless for my project. I would need standard 4' x 8' sheets with 5/8" thickness.
If you look at the attached drawings from my project you will realize that this construction really depends on the accuracy with which the parts were cut.


271628



And because I don't want to adorn myself with borrowed plumes, here is the link to the original designer of this book shelf.

http://www.moormann.de/en/furniture/shelves/fnp-archive/

I owned one of those long time ago, it disappeared ... don't ask how..

However, I am looking for a supplier for phenolic laminated plywood sheets standard size 4'x 8' (5/8) in central PA who is also willing/able to make some straight and precise cuts. All my local companies including the big box stores don't have it and they are surprisingly not able to order it.
I would also be willing to send a cutting plan and pay for shipping.

I appreciate any input!

Thanks
Chris

[Stephen Cherry]

http://www.whitecap.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?sType=SimpleSearch&searchTerm=PLYWOOD&urlRequestType=Base&categoryId=&catalogId=11101&productId=56795&errorViewName=ProductDisplayErrorView&urlLangId=-1&searchSource=Q&resultCatEntryType=2&langId=-1&top_category=&pageSize=36&parent_category_rn=&storeId=11301

I bought some of this at Whitecap a while back in Baltimore. Maybe you could come down and buy it and have a crab cake.

[Jamie Buxton]

Formica and its competitors are the same stuff -- phenolic sheet. So you can your panels by bonding formica on to a plywood core. You can do that yourself, or most cabinetmakers should be able to do it for you. Formica on plywood is standard technique.

But that seems to only get you started. In that design there seems to be special metal clippy dealies that help hold the bookcase together. Those are likely not generic parts.

[Peter Quinn]

Find out where the cabinet shops get their sheet goods in your region, see if you can piggy back on that. Big boxes have a surprisingly limited supply chain and tend to make purchases in container quantities, it's part of that "big" format. I can order phenolic faced ply from my sheet good supplier, and it is obscenely expensive, like $135/sheet IIR for apple ply phenolic. Lots of color choices. So it's probably not going to be a stock item, but it's not a custom fabrication either, the local plywood distributers generally stock it in my region. Not sure who services your region.

[Jim Matthews]

If local suppliers can't fill this order,
it's mail order (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2003958/9104/Phenolic-Faced-Plywood-18mm-34-x-24-x-48.aspx) is available.

[Jim German]

Give Russell Plywood (http://www.russellplywood.com/) out in Reading a call. If they don't stock it they can probably order it.

[Greg R Bradley]

The stuff at White Cap is for concrete form construction, which I believe is the original application for the product. It is pretty poor in appearance for what you want to do and will likely be expensive also. I think the ply structure is more like traditional plywood than baltic birch, which is a bad thing.

The Woodcraft stuff I've seen in the store is very poor and at $50 for 24"x48" sheet will be too small and expensive. I've only seen it in dark green. Perhaps the black is better.

I buy mine from Anderson Plywood in Culver City, CA. It is about $110 for 18mm for the Russian stuff, which is very good for shop/fixture use. They also have the Scandinavian material at almost double that, which is what you might want for furniture. The Russian stuff in brown appears to be exactly the stuff Rockler sells for $40 for 24"x32".

My recollection is that Anderson is a few blocks away from the importer and may be associated with them. Perhaps you can find a similar supplier in PA.

Warning: this stuff is heavy. 12 sheets of 18mm loads my Honda Ridgeline to the point of being uncomfortable.

[Stephen Cherry]

The stuff at White Cap is for concrete form construction, which I believe is the original application for the product. It is pretty poor in appearance for what you want to do and will likely be expensive also. I think the ply structure is more like traditional plywood than baltic birch, which is a bad thing.



Here is what the whitecap material looks like. It was a few years ago when I bought it, and was not very expensive. The world of plywood has changed since then though. The plys are definitely better than construction grade. May be just fine for an informal bookshelf and starter project.

271643

[Erik Christensen]

I would build that out of 3/4" baltic birch that is available in 4x8 sheets - then spray with this

http://www.generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-base-paints-glazes-and-pigmented-topcoats/pigmented-acryilic-high-solids-finish#.UkMGJBCAqoU

[Greg R Bradley]

Here is what the whitecap material looks like. It was a few years ago when I bought it, and was not very expensive. The world of plywood has changed since then though. The plys are definitely better than construction grade. May be just fine for an informal bookshelf and starter project.

271643

Looks WAY better than the stuff we get from White Cap in a heavy construction company for making concrete forms. White Cap catalog shows fewer plies, particularly in the middle. If you get more from White Cap, just look at it first to make sure what you are getting.

I don't know if they have changed over time or supply different materials in different parts of the country. I consider it fine for concrete forms but not for woodworking jigs or even the heavy duty shelving units I've made. The phenolic seems thinner but that might just be poorer finish on the wood under it.

[Stephen Cherry]

Looks WAY better than the stuff we get from White Cap in a heavy construction company for making concrete forms. White Cap catalog shows fewer plies, particularly in the middle. If you get more from White Cap, just look at it first to make sure what you are getting.

I don't know if they have changed over time or supply different materials in different parts of the country. I consider it fine for concrete forms but not for woodworking jigs or even the heavy duty shelving units I've made. The phenolic seems thinner but that might just be poorer finish on the wood under it.

Greg, this material is from about 5 years ago, and many things, including plywood, have degraded since them. I agree, with this and any plywood, LOOK FIRST.

[Rich Lester]

Chris

Try Middletown Lumber. Shouldn't be to far from you.
http://www.middletownlumber.com/

[Christoph Brehm]

thanks for all the answers and suggestions.

I have not seen so much from this stuff in real. I saw some at woodcraft, green and black surface, which was really ok.
I called the white cap company in Baltimore, they have this stuff in stock and it wasn't that horrible expensive, about 60$ per 4x8' sheet. However, the guy on the phone asked me what I plan to do with it and when he heard something about furniture he mentioned that these sheet are coming from a big stack. The surface is phenolic laminated but not pretty at all.
On the other hand... the stuff in the picture doesn't look bad at all, maybe I wil give it a trial.

Thanks also for the link to the color. I already thought about that. I would assume that you have to do a lot sanding to get a very smooth finish. Furthermore I had to paint the sheets, before I can cut them.

I already bought some stuff at middeltown lumber. They don't have this stuff in stock and they told me that they cannot order it from their supplier. Funny.. probably the have to order a whole stack and that is what they don't wanna do.

Just one word to the design, what appears in the pictures like a special metall clip is simple aluminum angle, I found the right size at MacMaster-Carr.

[Stephen Cherry]

Just one word to the design, what appears in the pictures like a special metall clip is simple aluminum angle, I found the right size at MacMaster-Carr.

I like the design, but what will keep the shelves from twisting? I would consider filling the holes in the bottom with the plywood so that the whole thing doesn't twist. Plus, it wouldn't collect dust underneath.

[George Gyulatyan]

I wouldn't buy this stuff from Woodcraft of Rockler. They do sell it, precut, and charge crazy $$$.

If you were in the Los Angeles area, I'd direct you to Anderson Plywood. They carry this stuff all the time, mostly in 3/4" and 1.5" sheets. Prices for 3/4" range from $99 to $120 or so depending on color. You might want to give them a call to see if they'd be able to direct you to a source nearby.

[George Gyulatyan]

Formica and its competitors are the same stuff -- phenolic sheet. So you can your panels by bonding formica on to a plywood core.
Jamie, phenolic plywood and Formica on plywood are definitely not the same thing. The item in question is basically a 4x8' sheet of Europly finished with a coating of phenolic. Looks pretty. The coloring doesn't quite cover the wood grain as it's somewhat translucent, even in black, at least the stuff I've seen at Anderson Plywood and Rockler.

[Eric DeSilva]

Greg, this material is from about 5 years ago, and many things, including plywood, have degraded since them. I agree, with this and any plywood, LOOK FIRST.

I bought some from my local Whitecap about 5 years ago and it didn't look anything like that either. You must have hit the lottery. Mine is much more like bad Chi-ply with overlapping veneers, suspect flatness (irregular surface) and lots of voids. I use it for shop fixtures, but that is all. I would not ever consider making furniture with it.

[Stephen Cherry]

It seems to me, one way to approach it would be to get some of the 45 dollar home depot birch plywood, cut it up to slightly oversize, paint it, then cut it up on a sled to protect the paint.

If that one turns out great, maybe then get the high dollar material for the next one.

[Christoph Brehm]

I like the design, but what will keep the shelves from twisting? .................

I will make some pictures later then it will be pretty clear why the shelves are not twisting. This construction is amazingly sturdy, more than you would expect. To make it even more stable there is an option for 4 radial arranged tension cables on the back side.


I wouldn't buy this stuff from Woodcraft of Rockler. They do sell it, precut, and charge crazy $$$................
.............. You might want to give them a call to see if they'd be able to direct you to a source nearby.

It was never my intention to buy this at Woodcraft, it is not only unreasonable expensive, the pieces they offer are not big enough.


.............. The coloring doesn't quite cover the wood grain as it's somewhat translucent, even in black, at least the stuff I've seen at Anderson Plywood and Rockler.

This is exactly the stuff I am looking for, normaly it shoul have 7 or 9 layers of depending on the thickness (5/8 or 3/4)

I found the term "euroform plywood" and then a company that is selling this stuff

http://www.freemansupply.com/EuroformPlywood.htm

another company I found might also have this

http://www.boulterplywood.com/
I will give them a call today.

[Jamie Buxton]

Jamie, phenolic plywood and Formica on plywood are definitely not the same thing. The item in question is basically a 4x8' sheet of Europly finished with a coating of phenolic. Looks pretty. The coloring doesn't quite cover the wood grain as it's somewhat translucent, even in black, at least the stuff I've seen at Anderson Plywood and Rockler.

The stuff I've seen has an opaque phenolic coating, so formica on plywood is visually quite similar. But you're right, the two things are not 100.00% identical. Formica is thicker than the phenolic layer on phenolic plywood. However, in most applications I've heard about, that isn't a problem. My point is that phenolic plywood is somewhat a specialized deal. You may not get a wide range of colors or thicknesses, and availability and price can be issues. Formica on plywood, in contrast, is completely standard technique.

[Greg R Bradley]

.......
This is exactly the stuff I am looking for, normaly it shoul have 7 or 9 layers of depending on the thickness (5/8 or 3/4)

I found the term "euroform plywood" and then a company that is selling this stuff

http://www.freemansupply.com/EuroformPlywood.htm

........
That looks like the same product I buy at Anderson Plywood. The problem is that you really need to see it in person to see some of the differences. A link to the product page for the two product lines I buy: http://www.andersonplywood.com/phenolic_plywood.htm

The better, more expensive, product is the Finland Color Ply. The Euro Color Ply matches the nice stuff that Rockler sells in small pieces.

Formica may be made out of the same materials but results in a completely different product when bonded to wood. In phenolic coated plywood, the phenolic becomes part of the outer layers of wood, making it a very strong, very rigid product that stays flat. Very suitable for concrete forms, jigs, shop shelving, etc. Not so suitable for a kitchen counter.

[Christoph Brehm]

The anderson stuff is really what I am looking for, they even have the different colors, that would be great.

I just talked to Boulter plywood in Sommerville MA on the phone. They actually do have phenolic laminated plywood, the one with 3/4 thickness has 15 layers and the phenolic layer is somewhat translucent, so the wood grain can be seen. They offered me to send me a small piece so I can decide if that is the right stuff for my project. They also offer precision cut service (1,50 $ per cut) which I will probably use for the long cuts of the 4x8' sheets. They also have this stuff in 1/2 thickness, ideal would be 5/8. .... that's life you don't always get what you want...;)

I think I definitely go ahead and give this anderson company in California a call. Using different colors on a project could be really nice.

[Greg R Bradley]

I was using the Anderson Plywood only as a reference for the product, not suggesting they would be a good source from across the country. I would doubt it makes sense to ship something like that across the country. They are busy with local business as they are in an expensive area, very near shockingly expensive areas.

If you get stuck and need a sample of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4" , I will be happy to send you some offcuts for the cost of a flat rate USPS box.

[peter gagliardi]

The absolute best maker of what you want is by a company called Koskisen, and it is a form ply. Multiple ply birch that has an impeccable surface finish of phenolic in many colors! I can not get prefinished maple that is anywhere near their quality, or uniformity! If you google, you may find a supplier, but it won't be cheap. I think Robert's Plywood on Long Island can get it, or stocks it. It is the best quality plywood I have ever worked with!

[Ethan Melad]

The absolute best maker of what you want is by a company called Koskisen, and it is a form ply. Multiple ply birch that has an impeccable surface finish of phenolic in many colors! I can not get prefinished maple that is anywhere near their quality, or uniformity! If you google, you may find a supplier, but it won't be cheap. I think Robert's Plywood on Long Island can get it, or stocks it. It is the best quality plywood I have ever worked with!

i was just going to mention the same stuff - i haven't used it yet, but have been meaning to try it. it looks great.

[Christoph Brehm]

I like the design, but what will keep the shelves from twisting? I would consider filling the holes in the bottom with the plywood so that the whole thing doesn't twist. Plus, it wouldn't collect dust underneath.

here is another picture from the construction, the aluminum angles are secured on their right a left site with bolts into the wood, that's it.

271882

I looked at the Koskisen Web site, this exactly what I am looking for, and the have different colors, great. Hope that they will offer 5/8, could not find it on the web site only in a manual.

Thanks
Chris