New Shapton Professional series water stones....

[Denny Rice]

Just picked up a new 1000 and 5000 grit water stone (professional series) from Shapton. I know these stones do not have to be soaked like traditional water sones but I have a spray bottle with clean water. My question is I have heard others talk about putting a drop or two of Dawn dishwashing liquid in the bottle to make the sharpening process even easier... How many of you guys who own these stones do this vs just clean water? Just interested? Thanks.:)

[Mike Henderson]

I've tried the soap addition. If it works, it would be most valuable when flattening the back of a plane blade on a high grit stone (like an 8000). Sometimes your plane blade can get stuck to the stone (not all that bad but you certainly notice it). I think the soap helps, but I never really tried using no soap and then using soap to see what the difference is.

It certainly doesn't hurt anything.

Mike

[David Hawxhurst]

i use mine with plain water. when i first got them i tried it with a drop or two of soap and didn't really notice a difference. try it for yourself and see if you notice anything.

[Kevin Womer]

I just hold mine under running water when I flatten them after each use, a spritz of water works well when using them during sharpening. Haven't used soap at all, I just never saw a need for it-water works just fine.

[Frederick Skelly]

I use just water on my Shapton. Seems to work fine.
Fred

[Jim Neeley]

I find the soak helps to overcome stiction, most common on fine grits and large faces (i.e. chisel or plane backs)

[Paul McGaha]

The soap (just a drop or 2) helps with stiction with the 5K stone. I don't think you'll need soap with the 1K stone.

You can search Shapton Pro stones and find a lot on them.

PHM

[Dave Cav]

The soap (just a drop or 2) helps with stiction with the 5K stone. I don't think you'll need soap with the 1K stone.

You can search Shapton Pro stones and find a lot on them.

PHM

Or just go over to the Neander forum and ask around, but be prepared to have a three or four page thread before everyone is all finished.

[Jim Neeley]

Only 3 or 4? You underestimate us.. <g>

[Clarence Martin]

Do the Waterstones leave a sharper edge than the traditional Black Arkansas oilstone ?

[Dave Cav]

Do the Waterstones leave a sharper edge than the traditional Black Arkansas oilstone ?
I think a reasonable answer would be "they can" assuming you are willing to go up through the grits, and how far. However, the biggest advantage to the newer ceramic waterstones like the Shaptons mentioned up post is that that they are much faster than natural oil stones, and don't require soaking like conventional water stones. At least in my experience.

[Jim Neeley]

I think a reasonable answer would be "they can" assuming you are willing to go up through the grits, and how far. However, the biggest advantage to the newer ceramic waterstones like the Shaptons mentioned up post is that that they are much faster than natural oil stones, and don't require soaking like conventional water stones. At least in my experience.

+1, and while they require periodic flattening it's a *lot* less than a water stone, in my experience.

[David Weaver]

The benefit from running a diamond stone over the shaptons is probably more swayed toward keeping them fresh and cutting fast. If you keep them fresh, they'll stay flat without additional effort.

No muddy swarf like the old water stones. Whether or not someone needs to use dish soap, I don't know. Even if you don't, you'll get used to the stones and any stiction issues will go away eventually. If a stone loads up, just put some water where it's loading, and make short strokes with the back of your chisel or iron.

The potential of a fine oilstone is there to match the finest water stones, but only with the right steel type, and the technique is a razor sharpening technique that nobody would spend the time to do with tools.

If a tool doesn't seem sharp enough for regular work, it's more likely that the finish stone didn't get to the edge of the tool than that the stone isn't fine enough (no matter what type of stone).

[Winton Applegate]

:cool:Ahhhhhh
guys . . .
one word :
Nah dude . . .
nah
well that was three words but what ever

even though the consensus of the group thinks that pressing that big red button that says "Arm" in the control room for the missile silos is a good idea . . . and will deploy the voice operated robotic arm that mixes drinks and the cocktail trolley, because that is what Bill said,

I'm not so sure about it.

The manual says . . .
. . . don't look at me like that. I didn't mean to actually READ it, it was laying there and I just happened to see that one part.
Noooooo I am not "one of those GEEKS" that reads manuals and stuff. That is soooo passe.

:eek: No . . . OK . . . look . . .forget I said anything . . . no . . . really . . . what do you guys think ?
The manufacture doesn't KNOW ! They would just make up any old thing.
Probably just trying to screw with us because they know it works better with soap but . . . but . . . give me time I will think of a REASON why they put that in there . . .


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_2336_zps3c28ff65.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_2336_zps3c28ff65.jpg.html)
:)

[Jim Neeley]

If a tool doesn't seem sharp enough for regular work, it's more likely that the finish stone didn't get to the edge of the tool than that the stone isn't fine enough (no matter what type of stone).

+1+1+1 Wiser words are rarely spoken...

[Stuart Tierney]

but . . . give me time I will think of a REASON why they put that in there . . .



If you want to think up a creative, witty and satirical reason, please skip the next part.




The reason why 'no soap' is because these stones cannot tolerate extended exposure to water. Putting soap in the water may/will cause any water to soak in deeper/faster than plain water will, and the water may be less inclined to come out of the stone, causing damage to the binding material, and the stone can break down very quickly.

What the soap does is a combination of reducing surface tension and also causes the stone to behave as though it's been soaked for a few minutes. One or the other gives better performance, and you can get the same effect without adding anything to the water by soaking the stone in a little water, face down, for 5-10 minutes but no longer.

Once you're done, clean away any swarf or mud (because a soaked Shapton is a completely different animal to a splashed one) and allow the stone to dry slowly in a draught free, cool place with air circulation. Drying too quickly can cause the surface to develop many fine cracks, which will cause the stone to wear very rapidly until you get down to solid stone material again.

The materials used to make the stone have no problem with soap per se, but the soap being present causes water related problems.

Granted, plenty of folks (me included) have used dish soap with Shaptons and never had a problem. But because the potential is there, they put the warning on the label.

Stu.

[Winton Applegate]

Stu,

Holmes here. Ahhhhh finally some facts, some data to work with.

I was envisioning soap scum. Not a very pretty vision. The stuff left on the lav after washing dirty hands and not wiping the basin.

Waxy stuff. Building up on the stones over time. Combined with the metal swarf from the blades and we have quite a stone pore clogger there.

What.

Well you are right no doubt (over wetting the stones; can't dry properly).

I am with the water only camp. Use only a rare touch on the diamond plate to freshen the surface and check for flat. Diamond flattening every use is much, too much, too much, too much, too much, too . . .

Hey . . . if a lot of this flattening business is going on I think I will buy stock in Shapton. Keep up the good work boys !

Stiction means rinse more often and use more water.

Thanks for your post Stu