Worm tracks - leave 'em or fill 'em?

[Roger Chandler]

First off..........I despise wood munchin' critters! All except woodturners of course! :rolleyes::D I have a vision every once in a while of doing a certain form, and then something gets in the way of my vision! I like pristine wood..........at least, those pieces I want for display I want to turn out to really look good. Some folks call things like this "character," I just call them annoying!

My neighbor next door took down an ash tree on our property line about 3 months ago........asked me if I wanted the wood, and of course I said yes.......I like turning ash, and he did not have to haul it off, just put it on pallets next to my firewood pile. I decided I wanted to take a piece of it and do something with it, so I got a log piece about 20" in length and put between centers and proceeded to take off bark and make it cylindrical...........then I began to see the worm tracks!

The worms have left some fill material..........would you pick it out, or leave it as is, and put a finish on it? What is your vote? I have seen some fairly well known turners post about leaving the "material" in as is.............what do you think?

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Wood munchers...........who needs 'em?!!! :mad::mad::mad:

[Dale Gillaspy]

I think you answered your own question. "I like pristine wood."
I personally don't like to leave worm droppings in the wood. I would pick it out. Whether you fill it with something else or not is up to you. I think it depends on the piece, but I would definitely pick out the "stuff." Just me.

[steven carter]

I usually just clean the tracks and finish, no fill.

[John Keeton]

Roger, I don't like the appearance of frass, so I remove it. I also don't care for the look of filled holes, unless it is just one or two in an otherwise burly piece of wood and filling them with brown/black material will blend in and not be noticeable.

Ash is notorious for what you have, and for that reason alone, I rarely turn any of it unless it appears very clean.

[Fred Belknap]

Roger I have finished it both ways and I like it removed much better. When you put the finish on it looks like chit which is what it is.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, I don't like the appearance of frass, so I remove it. I also don't care for the look of filled holes, unless it is just one or two in an otherwise burly piece of wood and filling them with brown/black material will blend in and not be noticeable.

Ash is notorious for what you have, and for that reason alone, I rarely turn any of it unless it appears very clean.

I don't like the looks of it either, John.........my thinking was to remove it. Now, I just need to think about getting a suitable filler for the holes......I don't have any inlace on hand, but I do have some brass key filings. With this ash, I think a contrasting color inlace would be acceptable, but I am not a big fan of it either. A red or blue might contrast well with the light colored ash.

[Glen Blanchard]

Roger - I vote for removing the 'stuff' and leaving the voids.

On another note, from your original post it sounds like the pith may still be in there. Yes?? If so, do you make any special accommodations for its presence?

[Robert Henrickson]

I remove it, and leave the holes/tunnels open.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger - I vote for removing the 'stuff' and leaving the voids.

On another note, from your original post it sounds like the pith may still be in there. Yes?? If so, do you make any special accommodations for its presence?

There is a tiny pith off center where the pedestal base is located. I had a crack there, so I saturated it with some CA glue to stabilize that ........will take a good look at the thing when I part off and reverse turn off the bottom ..........if needed I will do it again probably through that worm hole and then fill that as well as the other holes. End grain turnings don't seem to move as much as side grain, so I think I may be okay with this one.

I hate to put work into a piece and then lose it, but if that happens with this one, I will not be too disappointed..........the presence of the worm holes sort of ruined it for me anyway! :(

[Ben Darrah]

Roger,

I am one of those people who love working with woods with "defects." Even in my flatwork, which I am much more experienced at then turning so far. I know a lot of this is personal preference. Other people claim that people who do this are trying to hide poor craftsmanship with inferior wood. In a piece like that I usually clean the holes out with compressed air. Sometimes I fill them with a contrasting putty made of sawdust and thick CA or epoxy. I would use black walnut. Seeing it is ash, would coat the rest of it in sanding sealer first to help avoid staining on the other areas. Just my two cents. By the way, I like the form.

[John Keeton]

Roger, I didn't mean to imply that I never turn wormy wood. Actually, some of my favorite pieces have been "inhabited." But, I do think the overall character of the piece needs to be a "fit" for the wormholes. As for filling, it seems very difficult to do without leaving an artificial appearance, when what one is really doing is celebrating the organic nature of that particular piece of wood. Let nature be the artist's assistant in this case and simply remove the frass and leave the holes. I think it will be a pleasing look for this piece.

[Sid Matheny]

If it were me I would fill and put some color on it!

Sid

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, I didn't mean to imply that I never turn wormy wood. Actually, some of my favorite pieces have been "inhabited." But, I do think the overall character of the piece needs to be a "fit" for the wormholes. As for filling, it seems very difficult to do without leaving an artificial appearance, when what one is really doing is celebrating the organic nature of that particular piece of wood. Let nature be the artist's assistant in this case and simply remove the frass and leave the holes. I think it will be a pleasing look for this piece.

My concern, John, is that the vase [at least in my mind] was supposed to be a more "refined" form.........now that the worm holes are discovered, I wonder if that "fit" you spoke of is consistent with both the form and the holes...........to me it just looks like they don't fit together, thus my consideration of color.

Maybe I am not looking at it correctly......the form is still on the lathe, and I am still thinking about what to do with it........firewood maybe? :eek: I doubt I will go to that extreme, but this one is disappointing indeed in that I had that vision of something flawless...........oh well, it is what it is! :(

[Roger Chandler]

If it were me I would fill and put some color on it!

Sid

Thanks Sid..........the "right" color is important for this.........any suggestions?

[Roger Chandler]

Roger,

I am one of those people who love working with woods with "defects." Even in my flatwork, which I am much more experienced at then turning so far. I know a lot of this is personal preference. Other people claim that people who do this are trying to hide poor craftsmanship with inferior wood. In a piece like that I usually clean the holes out with compressed air. Sometimes I fill them with a contrasting putty made of sawdust and thick CA or epoxy. I would use black walnut. Seeing it is ash, would coat the rest of it in sanding sealer first to help avoid staining on the other areas. Just my two cents. By the way, I like the form.

Thanks Ben! There are turners who think it is not good if it does not have what I call defects! David Keller is like this, and some others who are in my local club. So you like the idea of filling the holes with black walnut sawdust and glue..........interesting!

[robert baccus]

Dry ash does have a habit of attracting bugs like crazy. Leave it out for a year or so and it can develop a bunch of them. These can be very attractive and unique when numerous.--Holly does the same thing.

[Mike Cruz]

Roger, two thoughts: Art = leave them alone; utilitarian = fill them.

Also, in my opinion, it is a "fill them all, or don't fill any" kind of thing.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, two thoughts: Art = leave them alone; utilitarian = fill them.

Also, in my opinion, it is a "fill them all, or don't fill any" kind of thing.

I agree Mike!

[Michelle Rich]

I don't think worm holes look good in this piece. If you had a natural edge or some other 'rustic" thing going on, then the holes would "fit"..IMHO

[Prashun Patel]

I'm with Sid on this. If it were me, I'd put a drop of CA on each one of those frassy holes to stabilize them, and then I'd finish. If they're not uniformly filled, I vote for removing the residual.

Unsolicited comment alert: IMHO, the artist's reason for a choice is more important than choice, itself. You already have a good eye. Trust your instinct and let your art be your art.

[Pat Scott]

With as many worm holes that there are, I'd scrap it and find another piece of wood. Or maybe the whole lot that you got from your neighbor is like this and you just got a bunch of free firewood.

I've turned ash before with bug holes. Some of the pieces I've kept and others I burn. I'm one that doesn't like the holes. There's a difference between a natural hole like from a knot, and one made from a bug. Dale Nish made a series of vessels out of wormy Ash that are really nice and artistic, all of his holes are cleaned out.

If you leave them as is and put a finish on the piece, the packed holes will turn darker than the surrounding wood - so they will really stand out. If you want to keep this piece, clean out the holes and don't fill them. I think with as many holes as there are, if you filled them with a contrasting color it would look funky.

[Steve Peterson]

Thanks Ben! There are turners who think it is not good if it does not have what I call defects! David Keller is like this, and some others who are in my local club. So you like the idea of filling the holes with black walnut sawdust and glue..........interesting!

Add one more turner that usually likes the character of a few worm holes. However, it does appear out of place in that piece. I am still a novice turner and have quite a few pieces of white or live oak with around 30-40 work tracks in a 6" bowl. It takes a while to pick them all out, just so I can fill them back in again. I have done copper filings mixed with epoxy, black tinted epoxy, clear epoxy, and turquoise. Every time I say to myself that the next time I will simply add a drop of CA to the hole and leave the worm poop, yet I still find myself picking it out.

Steve

[terry gearhart]

I would clean the area, then leave the track,
it really gives the piece a great looking apperance

[Brian Kent]

Leave the pock-marks and label it "Teenager's Lament."

[Roger Chandler]

Here is the finished piece. I decided that I did not want to have to wait until an order of inlace could be shipped and I did not plan on doing any more with this. It will be given to my neighbors, from which the wood came from their tree........their last name is Lambert, so I noted that on the bottom. I think they will be tickled to get it!

The worm holes are a part of the story of this wood and it is "character" as some have mentioned, so I just put a couple coats of shellac followed by 3 coats of the Woodturners Finish [WTF]

This is 9.25" tall and 5.75" wide at the rim. How do you like the end result?

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[Lionel Mercier]

Hi Roger
Hi all,
just when this happens, I like to take this great opportunity to create something using the holes
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[Roger Chandler]

Hi Roger
Hi all,
just when this happens, I like to take this great opportunity to create something using the holes
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I guess featuring the holes is one way to deal with them! Nice one, Lionel! Thanks for sharing!

[Tim Rinehart]

Roger, if i encounter bug holes and have filler in them from the critter. I will blow that stuff out. Partially because it doesn't finish well, and also to make sure a critter isn't still lurking in there. i will occasionally use some filler material, i.e turquoise or malachite, for small inclusions...but not bug holes. I like filler to appear like a 'vein' of material, which isn't likely to be in the shape of a bug hole. My vote...leave the bug holes with the 'stuff' cleaned out.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, if i encounter bug holes and have filler in them from the critter. I will blow that stuff out. Partially because it doesn't finish well, and also to make sure a critter isn't still lurking in there. i will occasionally use some filler material, i.e turquoise or malachite, for small inclusions...but not bug holes. I like filler to appear like a 'vein' of material, which isn't likely to be in the shape of a bug hole. My vote...leave the bug holes with the 'stuff' cleaned out.

Thanks Tim.........I don't know if you went all the way to the second page of this thread, but what you mentioned is exactly what I ended up doing with this...........just cleaned the holes out and left them. I think a vein of color does look much better than a hole as well..........thank for replying!

[Marc Himes]

Hello Roger. I tend to leave the holes if they are numerous. I also like to use a Dremel with a rotary bur to clean them out. At times this leads to enlarging the holes but that is usually OK. In this piece, the holes don't seem to fit with the refined nature of the form and I agree with your disappointment. If there were more holes it may look better so perhaps doing some carving might help.

[Roger Chandler]

Well this vase was given to the neighbors whose ash tree this was, this evening.........they were tickled to get it and surprised that I made them something from their tree. Worm holes and all seemed to be appreciated, so I guess all's well that ends well! ;)