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paul jeran
09-18-2013, 11:38 PM
I have an 80W Reci tube on my home build platform. Right now I use a large reservoir along with a forced air radiator and it works well for an hour of continuous cutting, but when the shop gets hot, I can't get more cutting time before I get above 24C.

I was looking at picking up a CW-5000 (~$650 + shipping) - but was searching around for a cheaper alternative. DIY was crossing my mind, but I did come across this:

Active Aqua Chiller, refrigeration unit 1/4 HP


Rated Wattage:
280


Voltage:
120


Rated Amperage:
3


Warranty:
1 Year


Rated BTU per hour:
2300




The BTU/hr specs are similar to the CW-5000, but it does not have a pump. My current system has the pump and a reservoir, so I was thinking this might be a cheaper alternative. I can find this one for ~$386 with free shipping.

Does anyone have any experience with these devices?

Thanks,

Paul

Dave Sheldrake
09-19-2013, 7:43 AM
I have a Teco Aquarium Chiller Paul,

So long as you use smaller volumes of water (10 litres in a closed loop) they work very well, the other option is huge volumes of water (200 l +) and running the chiller all day.

The big advantage of AQ chillers is most have titanium radiators so will withstand far more abuse than most laser chillers (and can be refilled in the event of gas depletion)

cheers

Dave

paul jeran
09-22-2013, 7:24 PM
Dave,

Thanks for the reply, this looks like a little more cost effective route to go for my situation.

Paul

paul jeran
10-23-2013, 11:03 PM
Just for anyone else that is thinking about going down this path:

I got the unit mentioned above, plumbed it up to the pump I was already using and a 5gal bucket for a reservoir. While cutting at a full 25ma with my 80W RECI, the temperature actually goes down till I hit the preset of 15C. Very nice.

I also found out that the heat exchanger is Titanium, so I don't have to worry about any corrosion - not that I am planning on puting caustic chemicals into the cooling water. To keep the gunk down I have a coil of .999 sliver at the outlet into the bucket. Before the cooler, this kept the water nice and clear for several months.

So in short - if you already have the pump and space for a bucket, the aqua chiller provides a lower cost option to the dedicated laser chillers.

Paul

Robert Silvers
10-24-2013, 7:35 AM
I would get a CW-5000 as it has a pump and 3x the btu/hr, but they are more like $350 plus shipping.

Dave Sheldrake
10-24-2013, 8:08 AM
I would get a CW-5000 as it has a pump and 3x the btu/h

And a design flaw that makes them prone to failure with a cooling coil that has no means of refilling them when the dissimilar metals electrolysis cause leaks.

cheers

Dave

George M. Perzel
10-24-2013, 8:11 AM
Dave;
Need more info on the design flaw-where does leak occur
Thanks
Best Regards,
George
Laserarts

Robert Silvers
10-24-2013, 8:22 AM
He is saying there is an aluminum and stainless junction, which would corrode in the presence of an electrolyte.

I would like to know what percent of units this has happened to.

Two of my dehumidifiers died this year so yeah, stuff breaks.

Dave Sheldrake
10-24-2013, 8:27 AM
Hiya George,

The cooling coils on the 5000 are Stainless Steel, the joint they go into is Aluminium, I've seen quite a few fail due to this as well as the rather small water pump being over rated (it's 1/3rd the size of the CW4000 series)

The Cw4000 is a naming convention used by HPC here in the UK, the unit isn't actually made by Weike but was chosen I understand to prevent confusion between types.

273649

Astoundingly efficient and keeps my 180watt test laser at 17-19 degrees all day no matter what I run.

Rob,


I would like to know what percent of units

Enough to stop the UK's biggest distributor of lasers selling them any more :( A good friend of mine bought two to go with his two new machines (direct import), both failed within weeks - months, one of them failed again after being repaired under warranty. When John called HPC to buy the 4000 Chris identified the problem just by hearing it was a 5000 having never seen Johns chillers.

cheers

Dave

Robert Silvers
10-24-2013, 8:44 AM
Are there any online complaints about it? I can't find any but would like to read about it.

I have the 5200 and with my 100 tube the temp will stay +- 0.1C all day long.

Tap water is an electrolyte but distilled water is not. Maybe the problems occurred when people used tap water?

They must be reliable as the specs say:



Working hours:
Long time

Dan Hintz
10-24-2013, 10:33 AM
Tap water is an electrolyte but distilled water is not.

The problem with plain distilled water is it will attempt to suck its desired ions out of the aluminum walls, slowly destroying them from the inside out.

Rodne Gold
10-24-2013, 10:42 AM
I use a 50% antifreeze and ionised water mix in my 5000 and 3000 - touch wood , they been good for 2.5 years. 3000 is utter junk tho.

Kev Williams
10-24-2013, 10:56 AM
My idea for a home made chiller:

http://www.engraver1.com/erase1/icemaker.jpg


--- I've had one of these on our boat for 6 years, it dumps 14 ice cubes every 7 minutes, and the water container holds around 2 gallons of water. It would be a piece o' cake to turn this into a laser chiller...

Robert Silvers
10-24-2013, 11:27 AM
The problem with plain distilled water is it will attempt to suck its desired ions out of the aluminum walls, slowly destroying them from the inside out.
Very slowly. You would probably have to change the water hourly for years if not decades.

Robert Silvers
10-24-2013, 11:29 AM
My idea for a home made chiller:


--- I've had one of these on our boat for 6 years, it dumps 14 ice cubes every 7 minutes, and the water container holds around 2 gallons of water. It would be a piece o' cake to turn this into a laser chiller...

You want two things that cannot do. Hold the temp constant, and not be too much below ambient due to condensation.

John Bion
10-24-2013, 11:50 AM
Are there any online complaints about it? I can't find any but would like to read about it.

I have the 5200 and with my 100 tube the temp will stay +- 0.1C all day long.

Tap water is an electrolyte but distilled water is not. Maybe the problems occurred when people used tap water?

They must be reliable as the specs say:



Working hours:
Long time





Take this as your online complaint.
Two CW 5000 chillers dead, neither because of the (genuine - I have seen them - but can't quote stats) fault of the ally/ssteel issue, but due to faulty pumps.
The pumps on these CW5000's are insufficient. Just because you purchased one doesn't make your decision right. I (obviously) thought that my decision to purchase what I purchased was the right decision, I have had to eat humble pie and admit that that was not the case. It would be wise for the OP to listen to hard advice on these forums from those who have been there and done that - and many who have been at it for many years.
Kind Regards,
John

Robert Silvers
10-24-2013, 12:14 PM
Your pump issue is hard advice.

The aluminum / steel issue is only confirmed if it happened with distilled water. If they used tap water or anti freeze that is an electrolyte.

Dan Hintz
10-24-2013, 12:18 PM
Very slowly. You would probably have to change the water hourly for years if not decades.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but yet again, you're wrong.

Throw some de-io water in a working unit and try it yourself. In some cases less than a year goes by before the radiator is shot. There is a reason so much work goes into designing a quality chiller. De-io water is surprisingly reactive...

Robert Silvers
10-24-2013, 12:29 PM
I wonder what alloy they use?

Dave Sheldrake
10-24-2013, 6:01 PM
Likely a combination of recycled Dinky toys and whatever gets swept up off the floor.

Going back a few years there was a huge jump in scrap ally prices in Europe as just about everything that was available for scrap was going to China.

I've said it many times, I adore our Chinese brothers and sisters but DON'T confuse Chinese quality control with anything you have experienced in the West. This is based on visiting Chinese factories and dealing with Chinese products for a lot of years. They are made to a price point and NOT a Western standard.

I understand this when I buy, I get great prices and genuinely likeable people to deal with but I don't overhype or expect more than I am paying for. It's one of the fundamental laws of business, "You cannot pay a little and get a lot"

cheers

Dave

Vicki Rivrud
10-25-2013, 12:03 AM
Well I have the 5200 and run both the 150 watt laser and cool the CNC Router spindle, both machines at times are running at the same time.

Running fine for 4 years without a problem and I only use distilled water - no additives. Knock on wood . . . but I'm doing fine.

We run the laser at times from 7:30 am to well after 11:00 pm - JR is the early bird and I am a night owl. So its got lots o hours. But I have a spare, just in case.

Vicki

Rodne Gold
10-25-2013, 5:49 AM
I have found in china that very small increases in price equate to huge jumps in quality.. for eg 10% more gets me virgin acrylic sheeting with no inclusions , great dimensional tolerances and no surface imperfections instead of the rubbish stuff....

Frank barry
10-25-2013, 5:56 AM
yep that is so true and it costs as much to ship low quality products as it dose high quality Frank

Dave Sheldrake
10-25-2013, 10:41 AM
Well I have the 5200

Different Vix, the 5200 are pretty good chillers by all accounts, it's the 5000 that has the problem.

cheers

Dave

Robert Silvers
10-26-2013, 12:00 AM
My $2000 non-Chinese GE Profile Artica refrigerator died this week. Still deciding if I should buy a new one or spend $600 replacing the compressor. Stuff breaks.



I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but yet again, you're wrong.

Throw some de-io water in a working unit and try it yourself. In some cases less than a year goes by before the radiator is shot. There is a reason so much work goes into designing a quality chiller. De-io water is surprisingly reactive...

Vicki managed to keep the distilled water that the instructions say to use from dissolving her unit like alien blood. Seems like she may have 10,000 hours on it - which is like 6 cents an hour even if it died today. I have only distilled water in my 5200. It is probably best to not change the water too often as it will be more reactive when new.