cordless drill batteries

[Stefan Antwarg]

I have had a Ryobi 12 volt cordless drill for about 6 years now. I have 2 batteries for it. Yesterday, I went to change the battery, which had been sitting in the charger for a while. The drill turned very slowly, which was unusual because the battery should have been fully charged. So, I put the battery back in the charger and noticed that there were 2 lights on on the charger. Reading the instructions I found out that means the battery may be gone. But I found it odd that it does this for both batteries. Do both batteries go up at the same time? The other thing is that I really haven't used the drill very heavily. There are times when the drill will just sit for a few months, and then I will use it. So, I don't think I overused it. Is this problem normal? Is it just a case of needing new batteries?

As the typical tool loving man that I am, naturally it occured to me that this would be a good opportunity to buy a new drill. Do you think this would be a good time to buy a new and better drill (perhaps the Dewalt 14 volt that Wood Mag rated so high)? Or would you just get a couple new batteries (if that's the issue)?

Thanks,
Stefan

[John Hart]

Stephan,

Rechargeable batteries need to be treated a certain way in order to ensure long life. Ideally, you should never leave them in a charger more than a couple days, and it is recommended to take them out as soon as the recharge is complete, otherwise, they will discharge slowly in the charger and then retain memory of the lower charge...effectively making them useless. A battery should be discharged as far down as possible before recharging as well. Using a battery til it is "half dead" and then recharging, may cause the battery to only be able half as useful. One of these scenarios is what it sounds like for you.

Sometimes you can "exercise" the battery back to life but it is very time consuming. This is done by putting the battery in the drill and using it heavily til it dies, then charge it...then immediately use it til it dies...then charge it..etc. Do this 4 or 5 times and you may restore it. Some manufacturers sell an exerciser charger that does this automatically, but it's rare since they really want to sell you more batteries.

After 6 years, I would say it's time to get another set of batteries for your Ryobi...Sounds like you've had good success.

[John Miliunas]

Stephan, another procedure I've used to help "restore" some more useable life to batteries is: Run the battery down and stick it in the freezer for @24 hrs. Charge it up, run the battery back down and into the freezer for another cycle. Pull it out after another 24hrs. or so and recharge it. You may be surprised to find a bit "more" battery. My success with this has been consistent BUT, when one has to go to that extreme, chances are the batteries won't last too much longer, so time to consider a new unit.:) :cool:

[Kevin Herber]

Hi Stefan - Take a look at http://www.primecell.com/). (Beware!! -- I think their web site is difficult to navigate) They have a lot of good information on batteries. They may be able to help you. I was going to have them rebuild my DW 14.4 for $50+. That was about the same price for a new battery at HD.

My DeWalt 14.4 finally gave up the ghost after 5 years. About every 30 minutes it needed a charge. I got 5 good years out of it tho. Then I saw a new Dewalt 14.4 with two batteries and a charger for $199 at Lowe's. For not a whole lot more than new batteries I ended up with batteries and a drill.

I believe HD and Lowe's have Ryobi drills. You may be able to reasonably end up with a second drill package. I really like having two drills. One for drilling and one for screwing.

Good Luck -- Kevin

[Jeff Sudmeier]

The batteries plus stores around here will rebuild cordless tool batteries for about 1/2 of new. My dad just had two Dewalt 14.4v done for $30 a peice....

[George Matthews]

_snip_ Reading the instructions I found out that means the battery may be gone. But I found it odd that it does this for both batteries. Do both batteries go up at the same time? _snip_

Yes it is odd that both batteries would exhibit the same status on the charger. Very unlikely that both would go bad at the same time. I would take the charger and batteries to Dewalt, or a battery rebuilder to ensuer the charger is okay. The charger may have suffered from a voltage surge (lightning).

99% of all cordless tools use Ni-Cd batteries. The battery is a pack of 1.2v sub-C cells. So for a 14.4v battery, 12 cells. Individual cells in a Ni-Cd battery can develop 'memory' as stated. A complete discharge and recharge is the best way to get long life from your battery. It is possible to 'restore' a pack and Radio Shack and other battery shops offer that service. Cells can be tested using a multimeter on a 10A (yes A not V) DC setting. Momentarily connect a 1.2v cell, and compare the set of cells. The weak one(s) can be found. All this should be left to a battery reconditionong shop to avoid burns etc.

However a new drill and two battery packs are very inexpensive. The cells in the cheap packs are usually low quality. Even so, I it's very difficult to resists.

As for freezing a Ni-Cd battery pack... that sounds like a morphed recommendation for long term storage of ye-olde carbon-zinc batteries, or the stuff of legends :rolleyes: .

PS
Ni-MH suffer no such 'memory' issues and can be recharged at any level.

[Byron Trantham]

I recently had two 9.6V DeWalt batteries rebuilt by primcell. The cost was about 1/2 of new ones. More importantly, they used batteries with greater capacity. The rebuilts are fantastic. I will be using them for my other battery needs as need arises. Primcell is also a great resource for how to charge and store batteries.

[JayStPeter]

I'm no battery expert, but that fact that both are showing bad leads me to suspect the charger. Whatever the case, it seems like the batteries in those things only last about that amount of time.
My PC is around 7 or 8 years old now. The batteries are definitely not what they used to be. I think I'll have a new one before I finish my Deck.

Jay

[Wes Bischel]

Stephan,
I had a similar thing happen a year or two ago. I ended up getting the batteries rebuilt at Batteries Plus (there is one over on Loucks Rd. in York). The batteries in my cordless tools have used sub-C sized cells. I was going to buy the cells and do it myself, but I didn't have the time. To justify the cost, I do have two drills running off of these batteries (4 battery packs total), so it was easier to swallow the cost to keep both running.
Typically the rebuilders will use higher rated cells than the stock batteries - mAh (milliamp hours) is the rating to look for. The higher the number, the more power/longer a battery will go. I think 1500 - 1800mAh is normal with some cells rated as high as 3300mAh.

Just food for thought,

Wes

[Stefan Antwarg]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I also think it is odd that both batteries would die at the same time. So, that leads me to believe the charger is messed up. I am sure that I have a little to do with the failure. I have been in the habit, maybe for the past year, of just keeping the spare battery in the charger until I need it. The idea was that it would be ready right when I needed it. But something tells me I shouldn't have been doing that. My woodworking has lessened over the past year or so, therefore the batteries sit longer.

Stefan

[Corey Hallagan]

Battery technology has really improved over the last couple years. I have the Ryobi 18 volt system. It is my understanding that the newer batteries that are being made today and utilize a quick charge system that many have now, that batteries should only be completely ran down when new, then they should be charged frequently or every day even. New batteries are not prone to the old memory problems of the past. So if you keep them charged fairly well they should stay healthy. If you don't use them for some time then you basically need to start over with a totally run down battery etc. The Ryobi 18 volts system uses a 1 hour charger. For most that don't use their drill/drivers everyday it isn't likely that you will keep them charged everyday. For the last year I have taken mine and charged all 4 of my 18 volt batteries once a week. Recently while building cabinets etc. over a weeks time, all four batteries got a work out. They worked flawlessly, and when one went down I popped it back int eh charger. Now I am back on my schedule of once a week.
My craftsman EX 12V uses a 8 hour battery charger. It isn't recommended with these that you leave these in the charger for extended periods of time. Likewise, I charge these 2 batteries for 6 hours or so ever week, whether I need them or not.
Your Ryobi 12Volt is old technology very similar to the Craftsman that I mention above, actually, that Craftsman model is made by Ryobi. It is a good unit, however, like the Craftsman one Ihave, your Ryobi should never stay in the charger.
I think you will find that most of the new drill drivers will come with much better battery chargers and battery's than your older Ryobi came with. Just get one that uses a quick charge and you should be ok. Note that all brands it is easy to get a dud. What I like about the new Ryobi is that you can get a 2 pack for 39.99. Very affordable, however I don't think the Ryobi is up to daily contractor use but very good for the home woodworker etc.
I would also add, that charging and storing your batteries in a fridgid area is not good for them. If you are in an area like the midwest that receives very cold weather, I would recommend that you move your charger and batteries indoors for the winter. Even if you follow the recommended charging practice, doing it in a below freezing envioroment will basically ruin or severely deplete there life. Hope this helps.
Corey

[Charlie Plesums]

Not all chargers are created equal. Some chargers do just charging, and should not be left connected to a battery - continuous charging can wear out a battery as much as heavy use. Others chargers have a small computer that checks the battery and charges just enough to keep it on full charge.

Batteries are now designed to give full power until "empty" (and then die abruptly), rather than fading gradually (as they did with older technology batteries). Therefore, checking the charge on the battery is not trivial (it is supposed to act "full" most of the time). The newer fancier batteries and chargers are designed to be left on the charger most of the time, and the charger keeps track of things for you.

I don't know any way to tell whether a charger is "dumb" or "smart" other than (heaven forbid) reading the instruction book.

[Stefan Antwarg]

LEAVING THE BATTERY PACK IN THE CHARGER
The charger and battery pack can be left connected with the red light
glowing indefinitely. The charger will keep the battery pack fresh and
fully charged.

Well, this is what the instructions to the Dewalt that I am thinking about getting say. So it sounds like it would be good for times that I don't use it.

As you can see, I am leaning toward the direction of buying a new drill. But the suggestions about getting new cells for the battery pack are helpful. I figure the Ryobi may not be worth fixing. But if I have the Dewalt, I would definitely get the packs replaced. The Ryobi has been mostly fine, but there have been times that I wished it spun faster and held the bit better.

Oh darn - tool shopping :)

Stefan

[John Miliunas]

Stefan, if you're serious about getting into a new drill, this may be a REAL good time to consider a Festool! The older model 12v is on a closeout special right now for $225.00! Great deal on a great drill! It's got plenty of torque, high-tech recharger (fast, too!) and with the option for the different heads, it's a super tool. And even the stock chuck is awesome! I've yet to spin a bit in one of my Festool drills! I've even used it to extricate drill bits left in material by my C-man or Ryobi's!:) Just something to consider. A bit more expensive than others, but IMHO, worth it! Check w/Bob Marino and he can set you up!:) NOTE: Usual disclaimer...Not associated with Festool, etc....!):) :cool:

[James Carmichael]

Do you think this would be a good time to buy a new and better drill (perhaps the Dewalt 14 volt that Wood Mag rated so high)? Or would you just get a couple new batteries (if that's the issue)?

Thanks,
Stefan


I'd go with an Impact Driver over a drill.

[Lee Schierer]

One of the woodworking magazines recently did a review of chargers and charging sytems for cordless tools. Some were smart chargers and would not overcharge or damage a battery left in it for a long time. In fact they said that a battery starts losing charge immediately upon removal from the charger due to internal leakage, so it was best to keep the spare on the charger right up until it gets used.

They also talked about the "memory" phnomenon and apparently it does not exist with the batteries made in the last 8-10 years. NiCads older than that did show some tendancy for a memory, but that was no longer the case.

Not all the chargers they reviewed were smart, it turns out the DeWalt charger I have was. Still I don't like leaving things plugged in all the time due to the local tendancy for thunderstorms and lightning to produce surges in our power, so my charger is unplugged most of the time and the spare batter is stored in the case. It hasn't been a problem so far with the level of use my cordless drills see.

[Randy Meijer]

Two points that have been made previously are excellent and bear repeating.


All batteries are not alike and all chargers are not alike. You need to read your manual and follow those instructions!!! John's advice to run batteries all the way down and then fully recharge them used to be universally correct. However the most recent drill that I perchased, specifically recommended AGAINST this practice!!! My instruction sheet advises to recharge the batteries when they get in the area of being half charged......ie when you notice that the drill is starting to turn a little slower. They say that if you run the batteries all the way down, the cells can reverse polarity and be ruined!!! They also recommend that the batteries not be stored in the charger; but be "topped off" once a month or so if the drill hasn't been used.

As to chargers, the cheaper ones will overcharge batteries if they are left in too long and the better ones have a sensor that will keep the batteries properly charged when left in the charger continuously. Again.....read your instructions.....there is no other way to know for sure.....you can't tell by just looking at the unit. And if you do the wrong thing, you will ruin or seriously reduce the life of your batteries.


On another topic, almost every time I buy a drill, it has been the next larger size!!! I'm up to an 18V drill and find it much more useful than my old 12V job and not significantly heavier or bulkier. I just use it around the house for routine homeowner projects and it works just fine. On the other hand, if I were a professional of some sort or a contractor, I would probably buy the biggest one I could find. However, if you are happy with your 12V volt drill, keep it and get it fixed(may be hard to find a new charger if that is the problem), if you can economically. But you might consider "moving up" which can usually be done for not a great deal of extra cash. 10 years ago, I had one of the better Craftsman drills and used it hard for about 2 years before the batteries finally gave up. It turned out that I could buy a slightlly lesser new drill with 2 battery packs that for what it would have cost me for replacement batteries or rebuilding them. That is probably no longer true for $100 drills and it certainly is not true for $200 drills as it seems that batteries have gotten better and cheaper over the past few years.

Another alternative for lighter duty might be a "grocery store" drill!! My girlfriend saw my cordless one time and wanted one for herself..... she really didn't need a $200 drill. Don't laugh...at least not too hard..... I bought her a $29 18V drill at the grocery store that has worked for her for the past 3 years without a hiccup. In fact, it worked so well that I bought one, myself, as a backup for jobs when I didn't want to use my good one or to use as a loaner for thr kids and the cheap neighbor!!!

[Stefan Antwarg]

Thanks again for all the advice. I ended up buying the Dewalt 14.4 volt 3 speed drill. I used it a little and it is an obvious upgrade from the Ryobi. This time I am going to take better care of the battery. And I will have the batteries fixed instead of buying a new drill next time this happens. This will be the drill I take to the grave.

Stefan

[Bill Lewis]

Stefan,

I have had the same DeWalt 12V Drill for over 10 years now. The 14.4V drills were just coming out when I got this one. In fact it's the only cordless I have. The first set of batteries lasted the longest. Probaby at least 8 years. The second set lasted only a couple of years. The most recent set, are DeWalts latest generation. I get better and longer run times out of these new batteries than any previous set. One of these days I'm going to buy a second drill, and it'll be another DeWalt (maybe a whole kit). I'm sure there are others out there that might be equally as good, but for the amout of use and abuse I have given my little 12V drill, It'll be hard to convince me.

Here are some questions directed to the creekers that have had their drill batteries rebuilt.
Has anyone had Dewalt batteries rebuilt, and if so, were they sealed cases, or the new style that can be opened up (visible screws at least)?
I've still got all 4 of my old batteries. I'd like to get them rebuilt if that is possible, but I can't find a way to open them up. Can a rebuilder do this?