Help with 220V Ceiling drops

[Frank Trinkle]

I am in the middle of completely updating my woodshop. New tools, new house, dedicated three-car 960SF garage for my shop.
Next in the long line of tasks is the electrical system. The original owners of the house clearly used the garage for only cars and it is severely lacking outlets...and no 220V.

I am getting ready to pull the trigger with a highly rated electrical contractor to install 15 110V outlets, both wall mounted and ceiling mounted (for lights and air filtration system). Then adding 9 220-240V outlets. One dedicated to a 3HP Cyclone DC, another dedicated for an HVAC system to be installed later in the spring. The others can share breakers as only one machine will operate at a time.

I want to install four 220V ceiling drops on 10-3 wire to power my machines central in the workshop. I seem to remember seeing a thread that had pictures of how some of you have done it...safely...but I can't find the thread(s). Obviously, 10-3 is heavy, and I plan to use twist locks, but I would love to have some recommendations and pictures of how you mount from the ceiling, and what products or mods you use to secure the outlets. I want to get with my contractor and show pictures of what I want, and would greatly appreciate the help any of you can give.

Final note. We WILL be pulling permits from the city, and will be subject to inspection, so whatever solutions are offered will have to meet Florida specs.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Frank

[Michael W. Clark]

Hi Frank,
I remember the thread you are referencing but I am no good with the search. Seems like SO chord and strain reliefs were used.

Do you need/want 10-3 or will 10-2 work (should be much less expensive)

If you have/plan for an Air Compressor, you may want to consider a dedicated circuit for it since it can run at any time.

[Frank Trinkle]

Hi Frank,
I remember the thread you are referencing but I am no good with the search. Seems like SO chord and strain reliefs were used.

Do you need/want 10-3 or will 10-2 work (should be much less expensive)

If you have/plan for an Air Compressor, you may want to consider a dedicated circuit for it since it can run at any time.

I plan for 10-3 throughout. I know 10-2 is cheaper, but some machinery will require 10-3 and I'd rather not mix. Ultimate safety is the primary consideration as well, not cost.

As for compressors, I will be primarily using air for a simple blower, and pin/brad nailing with some of my glue-ups. I have a 110V, 20gallon Kobalt Oil-less that is loud as hell, but once filled, it's pretty much done for the day for my needs. Additionally, I'm buying a super-quiet Rollair JC-10 that may ultimately replace the Kobalt due to my very limited air requirements.

Still looking for Ceiling drop options and suggestions.

[Dan Blackshear]

Maybe contact these people http://www.reelcraft.com

It's a pricey solution but very slick and would easily pass code I'm sure.

Looking at their site I would think maybe this one http://reelcraft.thomasnet.com/item/light-cord-reels-search-all-power-light-cord-reels/power-cord-light-reels-series-4000-5000/l-7000? but it may be overkill.

[Michael W. Clark]

You are right, if you have some machines that require the 3rd conductor, it is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. That's the same reason I ran a separate circuit for the A/C. Currently, I have a 1HP older unit, but will want/need to upgrade in the future. It was much easier to run the service with all the electrical work than trying to retrofit later with a shop full of equipment.

You may already be doing this, but put your lights on their own circuit(s). A tripped breaker from an outlet put you in the dark. If you put them all on one circuit, at least use more than one switch to operate them. This way you can isolate part of them for maintenance if necessary and still have some light.

This is an example of what I recall others using for the strain relief.
http://amtecgrips.com/products/strain-relief-grips/npt-and-nps-fittings

You probably also want a twist-lock plug suitable for the ampacity and conductors. I used a 30A twist-lock 4-prong for my 3ph TS connection. Good thing you are not concerned about the price, as they are not cheap, but are definitely worth it in the right application.

Mike

Edit:
Maybe a more accessible supplier.http://www.mcmaster.com/#cord-grips/=ok6gnb

[Rick Potter]

I kept mine simple, and installed twist lock plugs in the ceiling with short extension cords hanging down, and twist locks on the ends of those. It has worked fine for 7 years so far, and if I am not using one, I can just unplug it at the ceiling till needed.

Rick Potter

[Buck Williams]

Probably the most cost effective strain relief is something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Arlington-LPCG50-1-Low-Profile-Strain-Connector/dp/B000MW6F7S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379543919&sr=8-1&keywords=strain+relief+cord+connector

A rubber grommet tightens around the cord jacket and insures that your cord is not hanging by the copper conductors. You'll have to size the grommet range to your 10/3 cord (10/3 is correct, in rubber cord the "3" refers to 2 conductors and a ground). You can Google the cord diameter for 10/3 SO cord to find the proper diameter for the grommet. The connector will probably require a 3/4" knockout to attach the end opposite of the cord to the box in the ceiling.

[Phil Thien]

I kept mine simple, and installed twist lock plugs in the ceiling with short extension cords hanging down, and twist locks on the ends of those. It has worked fine for 7 years so far, and if I am not using one, I can just unplug it at the ceiling till needed.

Rick Potter

That is probably how I'd do it. I'd actually eliminate the short extension cords and run a longer cord on the tool right up to the box on the ceiling. I'd kill the power at the breaker for blade changes, etc.

Of course, if you plan to frequently move tools, the short extension cord probably makes a lot of sense.

[Jim Andrew]

Before he moved, my neighbor was an electrician, so I got advice from him on how to do the wiring in my shop. For 220 drops, he said to put a box in the ceiling, and buy a piece of heavy cord, cut it the right length for my hanging plug, and tie a knot in it and put the knot in the box with the cord hanging down.

[David L Morse]

271194
Crude? Perhaps, but not random, some thought has gone into this. The loop doubles the cable where the tie wire wraps around it helping to prevent a tight bend. The tie wire is 12G Copper and holds the cable with friction. A tug of more than about 50lb opens the tie wire and allows the straight blade plug to disengage. To me anything hanging from the ceiling that could get tangled in material or some body part is a safety hazard without the breakaway feature.

[John Lifer]

The problem with putting box with outlets in ceilings (except for lighting) is that if you you want to disconnect the plug, you have to get up on a ladder. I put box and dropped cords down. Used a cable to relieve the strain.

[Scott T Smith]

I kept mine simple, and installed twist lock plugs in the ceiling with short extension cords hanging down, and twist locks on the ends of those. It has worked fine for 7 years so far, and if I am not using one, I can just unplug it at the ceiling till needed.

Rick Potter

This is how I did my shop as well.

In commercial facilities that I have been in, the Amtec strain reliefs referenced by Michael is the accepted norm.

[Charles Lent]

The kellems type cord grips are the only strain reliefs that, the electrical inspectors that I've worked with, will accept for pendant type drop cord strain reliefs. Knots tied in the cord, the clamp type strain reliefs and other home brew forms of strain reliefs are not acceptable for ceiling drops. Ask your inspector what he wants to see before you start.

Having a 100 amp sub panel installed in your shop to supply all of the 120 and 240 volt requirements of the shop would be the best way to go. Multiple long 12 ga wire runs to the main house panel can frequently cost more to install and will not allow flexibility for unforseen new tool installations in the future. A 100 amp 240 volt panel (get the one with the most breaker positions) should be more than adequate for any one person woodworking shop and a new tool would only require wiring back to this panel. I would install a sub panel in the shop even if the main house electrical panel was located on the other side of the wall, because it separates the shop circuits from the house circuits.

Charley

[Ethan Melad]

for my 220 and 3-phase drops, my (former) electrician used ceiling mounted junction boxes that had clamps built in/fitted to the knockout where the cord came through. he used a heavy cord; then a hook to give it some slack (i think the hook is actually a clamp so the cord wont slip). I have some fitted with outlets and some with female plug ends. The cords also have "chinese finger toy" strain relievers at both ends. Now that I'm writing this, it seems like overkill...but seems to work well.

[Michael Dunn]

I just had some 220V ceiling drops installed by professional electricians. They installed boxes and had strain relief drop them down. I believe they were water tight connectors with a rubber bushing that compresses around the cable.

[Michael Dunn]

Here's a pic of one ceiling drop.

[Frank Trinkle]

Here's a pic of one ceiling drop.

I definitely like that solution. Also looking at the webbed holds.

Thanks for all the suggestions!:D

[Jason White]

These are the kind of strain reliefs you're supposed to use for ceiling drops (see picture). They go through the KO hole in the center of the junction box cover.

[Jason White]

Here's one I put in yesterday using SO cord and a Leviton strain relief (pictures below).

Tarzan could swing from this thing!


I am in the middle of completely updating my woodshop. New tools, new house, dedicated three-car 960SF garage for my shop.
Next in the long line of tasks is the electrical system. The original owners of the house clearly used the garage for only cars and it is severely lacking outlets...and no 220V.

I am getting ready to pull the trigger with a highly rated electrical contractor to install 15 110V outlets, both wall mounted and ceiling mounted (for lights and air filtration system). Then adding 9 220-240V outlets. One dedicated to a 3HP Cyclone DC, another dedicated for an HVAC system to be installed later in the spring. The others can share breakers as only one machine will operate at a time.

I want to install four 220V ceiling drops on 10-3 wire to power my machines central in the workshop. I seem to remember seeing a thread that had pictures of how some of you have done it...safely...but I can't find the thread(s). Obviously, 10-3 is heavy, and I plan to use twist locks, but I would love to have some recommendations and pictures of how you mount from the ceiling, and what products or mods you use to secure the outlets. I want to get with my contractor and show pictures of what I want, and would greatly appreciate the help any of you can give.

Final note. We WILL be pulling permits from the city, and will be subject to inspection, so whatever solutions are offered will have to meet Florida specs.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Frank

[Charles Lent]

To pass inspection you are going to need the same type cord grip (chinese finger trap) on the bottom end of the cable too. They make a different version that's designed to fit into the clamp on the back of the receptacle. Your electrical supply should have them.

Charley

[Jerome Hanby]

Before he moved, my neighbor was an electrician, so I got advice from him on how to do the wiring in my shop. For 220 drops, he said to put a box in the ceiling, and buy a piece of heavy cord, cut it the right length for my hanging plug, and tie a knot in it and put the knot in the box with the cord hanging down.

Same here. I wired everything out to the boxes with 10/3. Purchased 12 gauge extension cords, cut the plugs, and wired them into the box using these (http://www.lowes.com/pd_75637-15527-45650_0__?productId=3152587&Ntt=nm%2Fse+connector&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dnm%252Fse%2Bconnector&facetInfo=)for strain relief.

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/031857/031857456504lg.jpg


For the 240 volt circuits, I also cut the receptacle end and replaced it with the 240 volt fitting that matched the tool. I couldn't find anything nearly as flexible as the extension cords and the big box had a fair price on them.

I used 10/3 so I could swap between 240 volt singles, or 120 volt duplex with a breaker change and minimal wiring change.

[Jerome Hanby]

Here's one I put in yesterday using SO cord and a Leviton strain relief (pictures below).

Tarzan could swing from this thing!

Is there a cost effective supplier for these things? I looked at them when I did my wiring, but the cost seemed way out of proportion to what was being supplied. Just took a quick look at Amazon and Leviton was over $17!!!

[Jason White]

Yes, that's what I paid on Amazon for mine, but the quality is great and worth the money I spent.


Is there a cost effective supplier for these things? I looked at them when I did my wiring, but the cost seemed way out of proportion to what was being supplied. Just took a quick look at Amazon and Leviton was over $17!!!

[Jason White]

That is not a strain relief. That is a ROMEX clamp and it'll eventually dig into the sheathing of your cord.


Same here. I wired everything out to the boxes with 10/3. Purchased 12 gauge extension cords, cut the plugs, and wired them into the box using these (http://www.lowes.com/pd_75637-15527-45650_0__?productId=3152587&Ntt=nm%2Fse+connector&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dnm%252Fse%2Bconnector&facetInfo=)for strain relief.

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/031857/031857456504lg.jpg


For the 240 volt circuits, I also cut the receptacle end and replaced it with the 240 volt fitting that matched the tool. I couldn't find anything nearly as flexible as the extension cords and the big box had a fair price on them.

I used 10/3 so I could swap between 240 volt singles, or 120 volt duplex with a breaker change and minimal wiring change.

[Jason White]

Lots of great ideas (with pictures) and info here...

http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/WLBVM002.pdf



I am in the middle of completely updating my woodshop. New tools, new house, dedicated three-car 960SF garage for my shop.
Next in the long line of tasks is the electrical system. The original owners of the house clearly used the garage for only cars and it is severely lacking outlets...and no 220V.

I am getting ready to pull the trigger with a highly rated electrical contractor to install 15 110V outlets, both wall mounted and ceiling mounted (for lights and air filtration system). Then adding 9 220-240V outlets. One dedicated to a 3HP Cyclone DC, another dedicated for an HVAC system to be installed later in the spring. The others can share breakers as only one machine will operate at a time.

I want to install four 220V ceiling drops on 10-3 wire to power my machines central in the workshop. I seem to remember seeing a thread that had pictures of how some of you have done it...safely...but I can't find the thread(s). Obviously, 10-3 is heavy, and I plan to use twist locks, but I would love to have some recommendations and pictures of how you mount from the ceiling, and what products or mods you use to secure the outlets. I want to get with my contractor and show pictures of what I want, and would greatly appreciate the help any of you can give.

Final note. We WILL be pulling permits from the city, and will be subject to inspection, so whatever solutions are offered will have to meet Florida specs.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Frank

[Jason White]

Charles -- I'm trying to find a picture of what you're talking about online and can't fine one (strain relief for the receptacle end of the cord). Do you have a picture or link to one that you can share?



To pass inspection you are going to need the same type cord grip (chinese finger trap) on the bottom end of the cable too. They make a different version that's designed to fit into the clamp on the back of the receptacle. Your electrical supply should have them.

Charley

[Charles Lent]

Jason,

Sorry no picture (can't get it to post), but if you go to the Kellums catalog they are listed as "I-Grips". They are basically the same Chinese finger trap design for gripping the cable, but with attachment rings to connect to the screws on the rear clamp part of Hubbell style cable plugs and connectors.


http://www.afielektrik.com/pdf/urunler/hubbell-wiring/t.pdf



Charley

[Chris Rosenberger]

Like some of the others, we just used junction boxes & covers. We cut holes in the covers & used standard box connectors.
We have several around the shop. Many of them have been in use for over 20 years without any problems.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/chrisrosenb/Shop%20Album/DSCF2309_zps57ff4703.jpg (http://s123.photobucket.com/user/chrisrosenb/media/Shop%20Album/DSCF2309_zps57ff4703.jpg.html)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/chrisrosenb/Shop%20Album/DSCF2311_zps552af3e3.jpg (http://s123.photobucket.com/user/chrisrosenb/media/Shop%20Album/DSCF2311_zps552af3e3.jpg.html)

[Charles Lent]

Chris,

Your solution might work for you, but it is far from safe or acceptable because an accidental tug on any cable will pull the cable jacket out of the clamp and the clamp will likely cut into one or more of the wires. Sparks and a possible fire will result. Your installation will be an immediate fail if it is ever inspected for electrical code compliance, or a fire marshal or OSHA inspector sees it. If this is in your your home you better make sure that you have good fire insurance.

Nothing has happened, so far, but you are stacking the cards against you when you do things like this. Compliance with the electrical code won't guarantee full electrical safety, but it's the best way known to avoid trouble.

Charley
A retired EE and fire marshal

[Marty Tippin]

I just purchased several Hubbell cable support grips to use with my 220V feeds coming from the ceiling. They're the same "chinese finger cuff" design already posted, except they don't connect directly to the outlet box - you anchor them to the ceiling instead. I like these because of the separate anchor - you won't rip the box out of the ceiling if you pull on the cable.

Got mine here http://www.zorotools.com/g/Cable%20Support%20Grips%20for%20Bus%20Drop%20Cable/00060114/?gclid=CND8mYvmlroCFdFcMgodbhsAYg&whence= and they were delivered in 2 days.

[Frank Trinkle]

The Hubbell cable supports look like the ultimate drop supports.

That being said, my electrical contractor was unable to schedule me in before I had to go back to work in Nigeria, and I won't be back in the US until the day after Thanksgiving. This has given me some time to reconsider how I plan to set up both 110 and 220 outlets in the shop.

First, I am a one-man DIY, hobby woodworker, and I'm in the process of fully renewing and replacing my tools and machines. There will never be two 220-240V machines running at the same time, except for the Dust Collector. The plan is to buy "Lifelong" machines in the shop vs. those that I might want to upgrade later. As I said in the OP, my shop is about 960SF, of which more than two thirds are dedicated to machines and assembly.
The shop has now, or will be adding shortly, a Sawstop PCS with 52" Incra fence and will be upgrading to a 5HP ICS with the same fence; Dedicated Incra router table with Incra Wonder Fence; Laguna Italian 20" Bandsaw with Driftmaster; Laguna 14X14 SUV Bandsaw; Hammer A3 41 Jointer/Planer with Silent Power cutter (December), Laguna REVO 24-36 Lathe (December), JDS 3HP Cyclone DC; JDS HP Air Filtration; Delta 18-900L Floor Drill Press; Jet 22-44 Oscillating Drum Sander; Laguna 6" Belt Sander; Grizzly large downdraft table; 2 Festool MFT/3 tables; most hand power tools being changed to Festool products; Festool CT36 Dust Extractor; and if I have the room after the previous tools... a German CNC-Step CNC machine and 3D Printer from Holland.

I am looking to have all I need except for supplies and consumables by the time I retire from flying and my income is severely reduced. Now is the time, before prices go up, and while my wife and I have a substantial income to support the purchases. The machines and tools will be there for my 6-year old son later as well. (He loves "helping" in the shop!)

SO.... My original intent was that in addition to adding a subpanel and then fifteen 110V outlets to the garage (There are only four at the moment!), I was going to add eight 220V outlets; four of which would be ceiling drops. I am now reconsidering the plan.

I have spent a lot of time at my German Festool Dealer's mega tool store, where I have been purchasing a number of Festool and other Germany-made products including some that are not available in North America. I have been studying the Festool ASA 5000 Boom Arm that Americans don't have access to. This is a great product that SHOULD be available in the U.S., but Festool probably thinks there would not be enough sales to justify the endeavor (including all the licensing and UL certification process). That being said, I CAN buy the boom and Power/Air unit in Germany without tax, and let the military ship it back to the USA with my household goods when my wife is reassigned next summer. The boom will reach any of the machines that I will be putting in the shop from the far wall, and would eliminate the need for ceiling drops. My plan is potentially to replace the Euro 220V outlets on the power box with one U.S. 220V outlet, and two 110V outlets. The box also has provisions for supplying the line from an air compressor with pressure adjustments right on the box. Finally, 37MM hose to the CT36 with auto-on switching for the hand Power tools is a snap from the box. I "think" I could also run a 6" DC hose along the boom that I could use for DC on the big machines; somewhat eliminating the need for full ducting all over the shop.

What's left is fewer 110V outlets on the walls, and only three or four 220V wall outlets for the DC, Lathe, and Table saw (so cords don't get in the way of large pieces).

I still have some time to think this all over, but I'm leaning towards the boom. Your thoughts??

Pics from the net of the boom and box, and my shop just after moving and before starting the upgrade process:

273564273565273566273567273568

[Jason White]

Ah, yes -- I'll definitely get a couple of those!



Jason,

Sorry no picture (can't get it to post), but if you go to the Kellums catalog they are listed as "I-Grips". They are basically the same Chinese finger trap design for gripping the cable, but with attachment rings to connect to the screws on the rear clamp part of Hubbell style cable plugs and connectors.


http://www.afielektrik.com/pdf/urunler/hubbell-wiring/t.pdf



Charley

[Jason White]

This is definitely the WRONG way to do it. No way an electrician did that work. Get some strain reliefs on them puppies!

Also, at least one of those junction boxes looks like it's overcrowded.



Like some of the others, we just used junction boxes & covers. We cut holes in the covers & used standard box connectors.
We have several around the shop. Many of them have been in use for over 20 years without any problems.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/chrisrosenb/Shop%20Album/DSCF2309_zps57ff4703.jpg (http://s123.photobucket.com/user/chrisrosenb/media/Shop%20Album/DSCF2309_zps57ff4703.jpg.html)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o303/chrisrosenb/Shop%20Album/DSCF2311_zps552af3e3.jpg (http://s123.photobucket.com/user/chrisrosenb/media/Shop%20Album/DSCF2311_zps552af3e3.jpg.html)

[Chris Rosenberger]

This is definitely the WRONG way to do it. No way an electrician did that work. Get some strain reliefs on them puppies!

Also, at least one of those junction boxes looks like it's overcrowded.

Maybe it is wrong in the state you live in.
An electrician did all of the wiring in my shop.

[Charles Lent]

Did the electrician's work get inspected before you paid him? It should have.

Just because an electrician did it, doesn't mean that he did it right, and to meet the code. If the work is inspected after it's completed, work done like this will fail inspection and he will have to
do it over to correct the deficiencies before he gets paid. All construction work, not just electrical, should be inspected to assure that it has been done properly using the proper materials and latest practices. It's the best way to assure that the customer gets their work done properly.

The code that I'm referring to is the "National Electrical Code". It is used throughout the country as the standard by which all electrical work is required to meet. Some of the larger cities and more populated areas also have local codes that they enforce which are sometimes even more stringent than the National code and the local inspectors will turn down work that does not meet at least these minimum requirements.

Charley

[Jason White]

Sorry, Chris. My intention was not to insult you in any way. Just want you to be safe.


Maybe it is wrong in the state you live in.
An electrician did all of the wiring in my shop.

[Phil Thien]

Sorry, Chris. My intention was not to insult you in any way. Just want you to be safe.

I'm not sure what was pictured (pics gone now), but someone mentioned a clamp above was for "ROMEX" and not suitable for cord. I imagine the pics Chris posted were similar.

Many of those types of clamps are UL-listed for round cord, and are suitable (at least as far the UL and the manufacturer are concerned) for cord drops. My own informal testing indicates the clamps often provide greater holding power than the constricting type of clamp.

[Doug Jackson]

Hi Jason,

Hope you are staying safe and healthy.

I'm new here. In fact I created my account so I could see the pics you have listed! And now I see you have to pay to see pics... that's a little silly I think.

I am in the process of building my dream shop in my backyard - 24'x24', and My table saw and jointer will be close to the middle of the shop, and I will have to do a 240V drop from the ceiling for them. I don't want any trip hazards on the floor in this shop.

I was hoping you could PM me, or send the pics to me so I can get an idea of how you did it. I know it may be different where I live, but it'll be a good jumping off point.

[Jim Becker]

Hi Jason,

Hope you are staying safe and healthy.

I'm new here. In fact I created my account so I could see the pics you have listed! And now I see you have to pay to see pics... that's a little silly I think.

I am in the process of building my dream shop in my backyard - 24'x24', and My table saw and jointer will be close to the middle of the shop, and I will have to do a 240V drop from the ceiling for them. I don't want any trip hazards on the floor in this shop.

I was hoping you could PM me, or send the pics to me so I can get an idea of how you did it. I know it may be different where I live, but it'll be a good jumping off point.

The $6 a year Contributor membership helps keep the lights on here. It also gives you access to the photos, private messages and Free Classifieds.

Jim
Forum Moderator

[Frank Pratt]

Hi Jason,

Hope you are staying safe and healthy.

I'm new here. In fact I created my account so I could see the pics you have listed! And now I see you have to pay to see pics... that's a little silly I think.

I am in the process of building my dream shop in my backyard - 24'x24', and My table saw and jointer will be close to the middle of the shop, and I will have to do a 240V drop from the ceiling for them. I don't want any trip hazards on the floor in this shop.

I was hoping you could PM me, or send the pics to me so I can get an idea of how you did it. I know it may be different where I live, but it'll be a good jumping off point.

There are lots of good pics of what you need in the earlier posts in this thread.