tool for cut nails?

[Brett Robson]

So I've used some cut nails in the last few pieces of furniture I've made. While they've worked, I've been stymied by how to go about drilling a proper pilot hole that matches with the wedge shape of the nail.

If I drill a hole large enough for the thick end of the nail, it's too big for the bottom half of the nail and they lose all holding power. If I drill a smaller hole, I have to pound the living heck out of them to get them set.

The question being how did the old-timers drill a tapered hole, if indeed they did, or is drilling a smaller hole and pounding the heck out of the nail the only option?

I vaguely recall seeing a hand tool in an antique shop a few years back that looked similar to a T-handle allen wrench but with the tip ground with a short section of flutes, tapered as I recall, to hog out a tapered hole. At the time I didn't think much of it and I'm not sure if it was even a woodworking tool as the shop had it near a bunch of old leather goods such as saddles and other equestrian stuff.

Suggestions?

[Jim Koepke]

What you saw could be a gimlet. Currently my only image of one is this:

271076

Mine are mostly about three inches from point to handle. This one is on the end of a rasp.

Does the tip look anything like you saw?

These are good general hole making tools for making a screw hole and such.

Might be good for cut nails. I recently bought some rose head nails. They are shaped a little different than the regular cut nails.

They have been a challenge so far.

jtk

[Hilton Ralphs]

Chris Schwarz demonstrates this particularly well in one of his videos. He uses one of these Gimlets (http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?p=32206&cat=3,41306,41329)(as Jim alluded to) and doesn't taper the pilot hole at all.

You need to make sure the taper is parallel to the grain of the wood. The method he uses is called toe-nailing and it seems to be pretty effective but I must admit I haven't tried it yet.

I don't think you actually want a tapered pilot hole as the taper on the nail is the part that compresses the surrounding wood fibres and gives the joint strength.

[lowell holmes]

Chris also suggested in an article that you should grind a nail set to the rectangular shape of the heads on cut nails.

[Jason Roehl]

http://www.leevalley.com/newsletters/Woodworking/3/3/article1.htm

Wedge, don't split the wood.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Chris also suggested in an article that you should grind a nail set to the rectangular shape of the heads on cut nails.

These blanks (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32026&cat=1,43456,43407)from Lee Valley would do the trick.

[Brett Robson]

What you saw could be a gimlet. Currently my only image of one is this:

271076
jtk

Yes, that's it! It had a tip just like that.



Chris Schwarz demonstrates this particularly well in one of his videos. He uses one of these Gimlets (http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?p=32206&cat=3,41306,41329)(as Jim alluded to) and doesn't taper the pilot hole at all.
I don't think you actually want a tapered pilot hole as the taper on the nail is the part that compresses the surrounding wood fibers and gives the joint strength.

That makes sense. I wonder if drilling two different size pilot holes would work with a larger hole only drilled partially through the top piece.

Those gimlets look pretty slick! I might have to add that to my ever-growing LV wish list! http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon7.png



These blanks (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32026&cat=1,43456,43407)from Lee Valley would do the trick.

Another good idea. I'd been using a pointed nail set which kept slipping off and making a mess of the nail head.

[Joe Bailey]

great article, Jason - thanks.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I made a couple of rectangular nail sets out of .187" square O-1 bar stock. A really small one for cut finish nails and a larger one for nails up to 3" long. Both work just fine and were only about 10 minutes work each (including hardening but not tempering).

[Don Dorn]

In reading this thread, I'm realizing how lazy I am. Since Treemont nails are used a great deal in my shop, I've simply adapted using an eggbeater drill with a 1/16" bit and drill through the first layer and very slightly into the second. So far, it's worked very well and they always seem "locked" in place when done. Primarily, I use 1 3/4 and 2". To set them, I simply use the blunt end of the Japenese set.

[george wilson]

If you want some nice,thin,flat nails that are easy on the wood,and easy to clench, For many years I have used horseshoe mails. I flatten and facet the heads with a nail header I made from drill rod and hardened. The horseshoe nails have plenty of metal in their heads to hammer into hand made nail shapes. Their shanks are about 5/32" wide x about 3/64" thick. The heads are soft and easily hammer down. You can get pony nails too if you want a smaller nail.

Around here,I have to find a farrier to buy nails from,but they sell them on the inter net,too.

[Ryan Mooney]

If you want some nice,thin,flat nails that are easy on the wood,and easy to clench, For many years I have used horseshoe mails. I flatten and facet the heads with a nail header I made from drill rod and hardened. The horseshoe nails have plenty of metal in their heads to hammer into hand made nail shapes. Their shanks are about 5/32" wide x about 3/64" thick. The heads are soft and easily hammer down. You can get pony nails too if you want a smaller nail..

Good idea George and they're a lot cheaper as well.

The one potential gotcha is how most all horseshoe nails are tapered where they have taper on the one flat side so the nail wants to curve as its driven in (this is so it exits the side of the hoof correctly) and you'd want to pay attention to that when driving it in. I reckon you could probably avoid worrying about it with a sufficiently deep pilot hole or if you're heating it up to re-head it just normalize (or cut off) the taper then.

Nail heading is somewhat of a surprisingly subtle art to make look nice, in my limited experience with them always they ended up looking a bit.. off kilter.. to be generous.. until I'd done a few dozen (until the next time when.. they'd look a bit off kilter until..).
For the curious: http://www.piehtoolco.com/Product_Info/nailheading.htm they also sell a heading tool but if you're going this route you can likely make your own.

[george wilson]

The bottoms of the horse shoe nails come out quite flat if you use a convex shaped nail header with a hole for the nail shank in the middle. You don't want horse shoe nails with the original shape of the heads on them!!! The size of the hole does not let the tapered underside of the head go through the hole. It is all flattened out after the nail header is used. I did not even bother to anneal the nails. They hammered out quite nicely without softening.

The hand made nails I used on my toolbox were nails I made from horse shoe nails. They do clench very nicely,without excessive crushing of the wood,compared to commercially available nails.

This is the only picture I can find offhand. The nails were made from horse shoe nails,and clinch very neatly. You bend the tip of the nail 90 degrees,and hammer the nail over so it locks in like a staple. I didn't take pictures of the other side as at the time I was showing how to clinch nails properly,and not just beat them into tired little bent noodles like I have seen them done.

[Brett Robson]

You bend the tip of the nail 90 degrees,and hammer the nail over so it locks in like a staple. I didn't take pictures of the other side as at the time I was showing how to clinch nails properly,and not just beat them into tired little bent noodles like I have seen them done.


Thanks for the suggestion! I'd read about clenching in the book "The Joiner and Cabinetmaker". So if I understand correctly, you first bend the protruding nail 90*, then bend the tip another 90* to point it back into the wood. I've wondered if when hammering the tip back into the wood if that wouldn't, at least to a certain extent, just drive the main body of the nail back out of the wood?

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for the suggestion! I'd read about clenching in the book "The Joiner and Cabinetmaker". So if I understand correctly, you first bend the protruding nail 90*, then bend the tip another 90* to point it back into the wood. I've wondered if when hammering the tip back into the wood if that wouldn't, at least to a certain extent, just drive the main body of the nail back out of the wood?

It is all in how you coax the nail with a little finesse and persuasion from the hammer.

jtk

[Hilton Ralphs]

I'd read about clenching in the book "The Joiner and Cabinetmaker".

Clenching is what you do at a Gay Pride Parade.

Clinching on the other hand is a totally different ball game (if you excuse the pun).

Here's a cool video on the subject.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnMvTbqJYmA#t=18

[george wilson]

Maybe the nail is gay!! How do you know the nail isn't gay? Did you ask it? Just say'n.:)

Thanks for the video. At least he didn't hammer the nails down into a little noodle.

[Brett Robson]

\
Clenching is what you do at a Gay Pride Parade.

Clinching on the other hand is a totally different ball game (if you excuse the pun).



Clinch, clench, whatever...according to your guy in the video, either one works! Thanks for the video, by the way!

[Ryan Baker]

These blanks (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32026&cat=1,43456,43407)from Lee Valley would do the trick.

A couple other ideas if you want to make a punch. The blue box stores have been having bins full of nail set 3-packs for $1.97 (if I remember right) that would be an inexpensive place to get blanks to reshape. Another option (works even better IMO) is to pick up a set made for hardwood flooring nails (they are already the right shape). They are pretty inexpensive and work well.