Saws for children

[Federico Mena Quintero]

I have an old, rusty, small German saw with a ridiculously bad plastic handle. I've been playing with the idea of cleaning it up, putting fine teeth on it, and making a child's sized handle out of wood.

Has anyone simply shrunk the pattern for a normal handle to use by a child? If not, does that sound like it should work?

Or does anyone have experience with "real" tools for children? I'm hoping to make it easier for my 5-year old to get started with a saw.

[Jim Koepke]

Sounds like a great idea.

Remember, your 5 year old is going to get bigger. I remember working with my dad's saws when I was young and the handle size didn't stop me or my brothers.

jtk

[Max Withers]

No advice here, but a lot of interest. I have a pair of 5-year olds. I got them this, but it doesn't have a saw:

271075

It's just chisels and gouges, and a tiny drawknife that I covet for myself. They like to saw with my little Stanley dovetail/gents saw, but it makes me nervous. They do love the story of how grandpa cut off his finger with a circular saw.

[Dell Littlefield]

I found my 7 year old shop buddy can handle a Japanese pull saw much better than a western saw. You might consider putting a pull handle on it.

[Isaac Smith]

I have patterns in different sizes (http://www.blackburntools.com/articles/saw-handle-templates/index.html) on my website. You could try the extra small patterns - I have one for dovetail sized saws and one for a twelve inch saw, but either one could work for anything in that range.

You could shrink the pattern even further, but they grow so fast that they would probably outgrow it quickly. I think it's better to make it big enough so they can use it for a while, and this size would give them quite a few years of use (I can squeeze my hand into it, but would not want to use it for more than a minute or two at a time).

My four year old son uses my saws all the time, but they definitely appreciate the smaller scale, especially if it is a real saw.

When you file the teeth, I would file it with a little extra rake to make it less aggressive. It will make it easier for them to use and less likely to be damaged. They won't mind if it's slower. My kids think it's fun to just cut something, and the longer it takes, the happier they are. It's a unique perspective that they have at that age.

[george wilson]

Maybe I'm wrong,but I wouldn't give a rusty saw to a child to play with,even if it has been cleaned up. It will still have a surface with tiny pits in it that could hide germs should the child cut himself. Am I completely wrong here?

At least wipe the blade with bleach after cleaning it. Then,rinse it and dry it. I'm not a doctor. It just seems risky to me.

As for chisels,they really are the most dangerous tool in the shop,especially smaller ones. They can be pushed right through a hand,severing nerves.

[Matthew Hills]

I found my 7 year old shop buddy can handle a Japanese pull saw much better than a western saw. You might consider putting a pull handle on it.

My little buddy likes pull saws, as well.
(and the brace and eggbeater). Watch the drills, though as a small bit can break pretty easily...

Matt

[Jacob Nothstine]

My son is 7 he likes his coping saw and has a small 16" Western saw. His favorite tool is a small block plane. Make sure he has a bench or saw horse his size to work on. When my son was 5 he was eye level with my wood vise, kind of hard to cut wood when its taller then you.

Chisel - funny story we were in the shop the other day and he asked for a chisel again "Dad can I have a chisel, all my friends have one" :rolleyes: I agree with George chisels are a little to dangerous for young kids.

You really learn the meaning of measure twice cut once when your dad makes you use a coping saw to cut 2 x 4

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[Rob Young]

My little buddy likes pull saws, as well.
(and the brace and eggbeater). Watch the drills, though as a small bit can break pretty easily...

Matt

Replace the drill bit with a wire nail (finishing nail, clip the head). Using softwood, the nail will spin itself right through the wood no trouble at all. Much more difficult to break than a hardened drill bit.

[Jim Koepke]

I agree with chisels being the most dangerous tool. Even with all my caution around them, they still seem to nick me every once in awhile. The last few times gave me a little scare, but none of them were deep enough to draw blood. Did that last night on a burr next to the set screw for a pulley I was tightening.

I let my 11 year old grandson use some in the shop when he was here. The first thing he was taught was to always keep both hands behind the cutting edge.

jtk

[Federico Mena Quintero]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I hadn't thought about turning the saw into a pull saw, but it makes sense. My daughter seemed to have less trouble with a pull saw than with the push saws I have.

Rob, thanks for the idea of using a sharpened wire nail! My daughter really likes nailing things together, but I've been reluctant to lend her the smaller drill bits. She does love using the eggbeater drill and the brace, and a spokeshave to "make swords".

Isaac, thanks for the handle patterns. They are very pretty and legible - made me miss the days when I played around with CAD.

George, I don't think the pits on the saw blade will be a problem. It's just rusty, not really pitted. I intend to polish it as well as I can, anyway. My daughter knows what it's like to bang her finger or cut herself, so she has learned to be careful :) No chisels on her own, yet, unless I'm present and she has my full attention.

This is all very encouraging. I think I'll get that saw fixed, and with a little miter box, my daughter should be able to make good cuts.

[Pedder Petersen]

Saws for children need more set. Double at least.

Cheers
Pedder

[Ron Bontz]

I will make saws for little folks from time to time. The circumference of the grip will vary as well as the grip height. But the cheek size stays the same unless the saw plate gets smaller as well. So just shrinking the entire handle down may not work. The set as mentioned is more because of the lack of control. But they learn and adapt ever so quickly and grow just as quickly. So, IMO, a handle a little bigger is always in order. Then the next thing you know they have moved out and you wonder where all the time went. :)

[Bill Houghton]

I will make saws for little folks from time to time. The circumference of the grip will vary as well as the grip height. But the cheek size stays the same unless the saw plate gets smaller as well. So just shrinking the entire handle down may not work. The set as mentioned is more because of the lack of control. But they learn and adapt ever so quickly and grow just as quickly. So, IMO, a handle a little bigger is always in order. Then the next thing you know they have moved out and you wonder where all the time went. :)

And, before you know it, they move back in because they're out of money, and you get to re-establish the relationship.

Thanks for the good advice. I'm waiting for one of my sons to get around to reproducing, although I'm losing hope. Got several tools all ready for the grandkid(s) to learn on. Maybe I need to adopt some.

[Kim Malmberg]

I've got a seven and nine year old who spend time in my workshop mostly when I'm actually busy with making something useful. I'm amazed at how quickly they pull out my tools and create an even bigger mess than I can muster. I agree that chisels are the most dangerous tools. A constant reminder is the scarred fingertip l've had since I was six.
Still I think it's very important for children to be able to use hand tools. They learn very quickly and they tend to be very respectful around sharp stuff which means they actually allow me to guide them. They both have owned sloyd knives since they were five and yes theh habe cut themselves - several times. But they still have all digits in the right place and they have learned a lot.
As my special interest is hand saws I have been trying to find the best possible saw for them to use. And I must say this is the tool they struggle the most with. So reading the posts about japanese saws and Pedder's point about adding set makes perfect sense. My saws are very sharp and finely set if at all. Now I realise that this is actually making it worse for the children who don't have the power or the perfect position for their cut.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

And now all this leads me to wonder - has anyone made a pull saw with Western teeth? I can't see how it wouldn't work, and I don't really want to buy diamond-shaped files just yet...

[Brian Kerley]

A pull saw with western teeth would work....if you flipped the blade around to cut on the pull stroke instead of the push stroke. Glen Drake tools has a saw like that:
http://glen-drake.com/v-web/ecommerce/os/catalog/index.php?cPath=33

[Federico Mena Quintero]

A pull saw with western teeth would work....if you flipped the blade around to cut on the pull stroke instead of the push stroke. Glen Drake tools has a saw like that:
http://glen-drake.com/v-web/ecommerce/os/catalog/index.php?cPath=33

Thanks, Brian. That's pretty much what I'm going to make out of this old saw, but with a different handle.