VFD...no joy so far...

[David DeCristoforo]

So I got the VFD and the motor all wired up. Kind of not the way I had originally envisioned the setup and probably not permanent. But I wanted to try and get it running. I was hoping for a simple "turn it on and go" but something is not right. The VFD powers up but the motor seems to be locked up like it does not know which way to turn. I can hear something spinning inside the motor but the shaft does not start spinning. The readout on the VFD reads 21.5 and none of the buttons seem to do anything except the "Run/Stop" button which turns on and off whatever is spinning inside the motor. Input checks out at 220. Motor wiring is correct for 220. All connections are solid. Perplexed....

270983270984

[Leo Graywacz]

3 phase motor?

There is nothing inside the motor that will spin unless the shaft is spinning.

[David DeCristoforo]

Yes... 3 hp, 3 ph motor. I can't imagine what would be spinning inside the motor but I can hear something spinning up when the run button is pressed. The shaft, like I said, just kind of locks up. You can turn it one way or the other by hand and feel resistance but it will not spin up.

[Greg Bender]

David,
220 single phase in and 220 3 phase out, are your phase's correct although on most drives it does not matter. Have you toggled through the program and verified the correct values are installed. The motor data plate info might have to be manually inputed. I'm trying to think what we go through with the goofy drives we use in work. Sometimes when a drive has had power removed for a long time it tend's to lose the program info and is lost to starting the motor. Can you manually jog the motor at all using the drive controlls? I will check into it tomorrow with our programming guys.
Greg

[David DeCristoforo]

I have checked all of the connections on the input side and they are "phased" correctly. voltages check out as well. I also tried reversing two of the 3ph leads but it does the same thing. I have not gone into the program mode because I haven't a clue where to start there. I'm not sure which functions to check but I was led to believe that this should work, using the control panel buttons, "out of the box" with the factory default settings.

[Richard Coers]

You aren't saying anything about programming the controller. Have you done that? You should be able to get that from the dealer where you bought it, or maybe someone on here will have the procedure for you. These are definitely not plug in and go. Nothing can be spinning in the motor, unless it's a motor that The Men in Black provided. Then there be a really small alien craft in there.

[David DeCristoforo]

I'm not saying that there is something spinning, only that it sounds like there is. I can hear it "spin up" when I hit the "run" button on the VFD.

[Richard Coers]

Maybe this will help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0peL4xPBbwU

[Dale Miner]

I'm not saying that there is somethreceiving voltage to two of the three legs.ing, only that it sounds like there is. I can hear it "spin up" when I hit the "run" button on the VFD.


Have you taken a volt meter to the output leads while the motor is humming?

What you are describing sounds like a three phase motor that is only recieving voltage to two of the three legs.

[Harry Robinette]

DD
I just put a VFD and 2hp 3h motor on my 18" General. When I first tried to run it, it wouldn't I found out that you have to input something like 5 perimeters something like rpm,hp,ph 1 or 3. Very easy to do it was in the booklet I got with the VFD from Automation Direct.

[Dennis Ford]

I suspect that Harry is correct. I have set up a few (not Delta) and their instructions called for basic parameters to be set before running the motor. There are many parameters that have factory defaults but may be some that do not have a default.

[Josh Bowman]

Have you taken a volt meter to the output leads while the motor is humming?

What you are describing sounds like a three phase motor that is only receiving voltage to two of the three legs.

David, piggy backing on Dale's post. Is that motor used? Can you have it tested on another VFD? I've read though your FM50 manual now several times and can't find any of the "F" codes that should prevent start, except for the low end frequency which looks like is set to 21.5 which is about 1/4 of full speed for the motor. I know when I had to wire my motors junction box, not the 3 phase power in, but the 6 winding on the motor itself. It was a royal pain. These motors typically have 6 coils inside the motor that are wired together in the junction box. You can break all these connections and check each of the six coils with an ohm meter. But the simple check is to check it on another working VFD or 3 phase power supply.
If you want to insure your VFD is setup to factory specs, Per page 47 of the manual you can put the FM50 back to 60 hz factory settings by Pushing the Dsp/Fun button once, press the arrow keys until F25 is displayed, press the Data/Ent button then use the arrow keys to display 020, then press the Data/Ent again to save and all parameters are restored to factory settings. Which is the settings of F_05 = 4 (how the unit monkeys with voltage and freq to start the motor and F_06 = 60 (this keeps the motors maximum speed at 60% of nameplate).

[David DeCristoforo]

It is a used motor and it might not work I guess! Here is a recording of what it sounds like when I hit the run button:

http://www.daviddecristoforo.com/Misc/motor.aiff

The only way I can test this motor is to unmount it and take it to a motor shop which I will do if nothing else works.

Do I need to set the lower frequency? I can try that and see if it makes any diff...

[Josh Bowman]

David, the sound bite you posted sounds like a running motor!!!! You don't think the output shaft is broken do you???

[David DeCristoforo]

I don't think the shaft is broken! It isn't like the shaft spins free. There is resistance if you try to turn by hand and it will rotate as if there were "detents" caused by the magnetic energy in the motor coils. But it won't spin. It just makes that sound. It really does not sound like a running 3hp motor!

[Josh Bowman]

Lets just look the motor up. What's the Baldor model number on it?

[David DeCristoforo]

Looking at the plate to find the model number and noticed that this is a five HP motor not a three HP! Of course the FM50 I have will only handle up to a 3hp motor. I don't know why I failed to notice this before... it was advertised as a three hp motor and I just assumed... well you know how that goes...

[Dale Miner]

Looking at the plate to find the model number and noticed that this is a five HP motor not a three HP! Of course the FM50 I have will only handle up to a 3hp motor. I don't know why I failed to notice this before... it was advertised as a three hp motor and I just assumed... well you know how that goes...

The vfd should still be able to make the motor run under no/light load.

[John McClanahan]

The running sound you hear might just be the VFD applying some voltage to the motor. I run a machine at work that has a VFD. It makes a variety of sounds, depending on the Hertz from the VFD applied to the motor. It also has a kind of fluttering chirp sound.

John

[Mike Cruz]

The VFD does not care what HP you motor is. I cares how many amps the motor is drawing. So, you could run that motor on a "1 hp" VFD...only under light load, as Dale suggested. Your "3 HP" VFD will likely work just fine. First of all, you won't often be pulling the full amps of a 5 HP motor on a lathe. Secondly, even if you are, it won't be for long. The VFD is made to handle "over surges" for short periods/bursts. So, you can overclock your VFD (over 60 hz) and you ought to be fine. That is, at least, how I remember it being explained to me by the person (local Creeker) that hooked all mine up for me.

DD, I do remember that that you do need to program the VFD before it will work. As someone said earlier, there are a number that need to be set for it to work. The latest one I got (a less expensive one than the TECO FM50 that is actually made for shapers, I believe) had a bunch of hoops you had to jump through that was akin to beating the Master Monster in an XBOX game by hitting XXO++++OO+XXX--XOOO+-. We finally got it to work! Tricksy little creatures those Bagginses...I mean VFDs.

[Josh Bowman]

The vfd should still be able to make the motor run under no/light load.
I agree with Dale. And that noise is quite strange. It sounds like something starting, rotating and stopping. Just with a rubbing sound.
BTW I found where I bought my drive. http://dealerselectric.com (http://dealerselectric.com/)
Looks like a 5 hp VFD is a whole new ballgame. Much more expensive!!!

[terry mccammon]

It sure sounds like low voltage on the output side and/or single phasing a three phase motor. As has been said previously, double check voltage level phase to phase.

[David DeCristoforo]

OK... here's what might be going on. the motor is configured for 220V but I think for a 3hp motor the motor needs to be configured for 460V. Does that make sense? I was looking at the manual again and the specs for output are 460V 3 phase. So I need to reconfigure the motor connections?

[roger oldre]

no the hp is the same wheather 220 or 440. I do not know of a VFD that takes 220 single in and outputs 460. if you are putting in 220 single phase then your motor should be wired for 220-240 3 phase. It sounds to me that you have not properly connected the wires at the motor pull the cover off the motor connection box and check the wire numbers and connections.

[John Nesmith]

I feel your pain. I have the TECO FM50, and I had to have someone on Woodnet walk me through the whole thing. My first mistake was mixing up the #6 and #9 wires at the motor. WRT to programming, I was completely lost. Finally got it working, but only because of the extensive help I received. Good luck.

[David DeCristoforo]

This morning I checked the output voltage across T1, T2 and T3 after pressing the run button and running the readout up to 60 with the "up/down" buttons. there does not seem to be any output or if there is it is very low. I will call the mfgr today...

[Dick Strauss]

I really can't tell a whole lot based on your picture being small and not very sharp. You only want to have two hots (no white neutral wire) to the VFD L1 and L2 inputs with ground to the chassis. Make sure the switch is between the wall power source and the VFD, not between the motor and VFD. Try to disconnect and cap off the the neutral (white?) from the VFD to see if you can't get the motor turning. If that doesn't work, make sure you have 110V between L1 and grd, and 110V between L2 and grd.

The motor should be connected to T1, T2, T3, and ground. Check your motor connections to make sure that it is set up for 220V/3p not 460V/3p. Under the motor nameplate should be a wiring diagram. Post a larger picture here of the the wirting diagram if the removal of the neutral wire doesn't get the motor spinning.

[David DeCristoforo]

The motor is wired correctly for 220V, The input across L1 and L3 is 220V as it should be. After being on a call with "customer support" at FactoryMation it was determined that the output voltages are all out of whack. So now I have to box the thing up and send it back to them for "evaluation" after which time "it will be up to TECO to determine if it is covered under warranty". This is most disappointing. I had hoped they would send me another unit and let me return this one but no such luck. "Unfortunately we don't have that option" I am told. I have had a number of similar situations in which the vendor immediately sent out a replacement along with an RMA ticket and a return shipping label, charging me only if I failed to return the original unit. That is what I expected from FactoryMation. But that is not to be. What they "offered" was to sell me another unit and then wait to see what the determination on this one was. So for the time being, the project is once again on the back burner. I am not at all happy with this "customer support" and would not recommend this vendor to anyone.

[Rick Markham]

David, I'm sorry to hear of your woes! I hope they get it sorted out quickly. If they tell you that you need to buy a new one, look up KB Genesis VFD's and get one of them, nice people, based out of Florida. I've got one running a 3HP leeson on an industrial belt grinder. Sorry to hear about the lousy customer service at FactoryMation.

[Mike Cruz]

I, too, am sorry to hear how they treated you. I've had nothing but good luck using them. For me, their CS and TS have been perfect. Wonder what happened...

[Kevin W Johnson]

If you haven't already sent it back, Bill Summerlin, a member here recently put an FM50 on a PM90. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?203509-Powermatic-model-90-new-setup-with-vfd-question Maybe he could be of some help with programming the unit, etc.

[Larry Komroff]

David,

Before you send it back, post a clearer and larger picture of the line input terminal block. I cant tell from the pic you posted, but it appears that you have 2 hot wires, a neutral and ground from the switch hooked to the VFD. There is no neutral used if it is 230V 1-Phase in.

Larry

[David DeCristoforo]

"...it appears that you have 2 hot wires, a neutral and ground..."

I originally had it connected as you describe. Then I was informed that the two "hot" wires are supposed to be connected to L1 and L3 with no neutral used. So it was reconnected that way. Afterwards, the condition was the same with no voltage at the output terminals. That's the big problem. There is some current flowing to the motor but it's minimal. The sound of something in the motor spinning up remains and that is a mystery because nothing should be spinning except the shaft which does not turn but gets locked up as if it wants to turn but doesn't have enough power. The VFD is going to have to go back to the vendor because there is definitely a problem with it. I was on the phone with tech support at FactoryMation and we went through the whole setup procedure including running the frequency up to 60. The sound from the motor increased as the frequency went up but at no point did the motor shaft start to turn. Output voltage was measured across T1-T2 and T2-T3 and there was no measurable voltage. So something is amiss in the unit itself. While I'm fighting with the vendor to get a properly working unit, I still have to deal with the fact that I ended up with a 5hp motor when I thought I was buying a 3hp motor. My own stupidity! I am taking the motor to a shop to get checked out to make sure it is working properly. Then I'll try to sell it or trade it and get a 2 or 3 hp motor and hopefully it will all come back together in short order. Right now it's very frustrating and a bit disappointing because it seemed like this was sooooo close...

Thanx to all who have been so helpful in this. People have sent me diagrams, specs, even a printout for a remote control box label. I am most grateful for all the help and sorry I cannot offer a better outcome at this point.

[Josh Bowman]

David,
Looks like your on the right track. Sorry for all you troubles. I'd be willing to bet, someone, maybe even the shop your taking it to, would love to have and may have a trade for a 5 hp motor.

[Dick Strauss]

David,
You probably have already been through this but lets try anyway.

Did you try the two hots across L1/L2 and L1/L3 with no neutral? I bought my unit several years ago and they may have changed slightly because mine is a 203-C. Try both configurations just in case with no neutral.

Assuming that the functions keys are the same, go into the F-10 program and make sure it is not expecting an external input. Make sure it is set to "0" for "keypad operation". While you are at it, set F18 to 200%

Also check your model number and make sure you didn't get a 403-X instead of a 203-X.. .the 403 needs a 380-480V 3 phase input.