Sources for front door replacement

[Carl Beckett]

Hi all,

Im helping my neighbor replace his front door. Currently it has some old stained glass built in around the door frame, and he would like to keep this intact for the character. (I will get a couple pictures posted soon).

Most door come pre-hung. But since he wants to keep the existing framing, is there a source where he could just buy a door only. We would then trim it and fit it to the existing framing.

It seems to me the hinges wont be that hard - but I have never bored the lockset openings before and not sure how difficult it is to get them to lineup with an existing strikeplate?

Has any one done this?
Other options?
Other than the local lumberyard, are there online sources of exterior doors you have used and would recommend?

[Mark Wooden]

Framing refers to the rough 2x's that frame out the rough opening; the door and any sidelights fit in a jamb.
I don't know how well you might fare ordering a single door online as you might not have the best luck with shipping; and I'd want to inspect a door to be sure it's flat before I buy it. Best bet is a full service lumber yard, even the big box stores sometimes stock slab doors if you don't mind searching through a stack to find a good one.
Mortising the hinges is going to be more finicky than installing the lockset because it will determine the eveness of the door gap and how well it fits the jamb opening. Boring a lockset is pretty easy, many rental stores have a lockset jig to rent for a day pretty inexpensively.
Before doing any remortising or reboring in the jamb, I like to glue slivers of wood (of the same species when possible) in all the old screw holes so the new screws have a better purchase. I drive them in with a few taps of a hammer and them shave flush with a chisel.

If you have a good lumber yard nearby- and they're fading fast sad to say- ask to see a Brosco catalog, there is a wide range of doors to choose from in it, they're online also -http://www.brosco.com/products/product-overview/exterior_doors.aspx . I've gotten pretty good single doors from them over the years

[Jim Andrew]

Before prehung doors became popular, I used to hang doors in new houses. The framers fit the exterior jambs, and some were fit badly. I'd get a new door and hang it in your jamb, checking to see which way the crown on the door bends. ALL doors are crowned. Just put it into the opening so the top and bottom corners touch. If the slight gap is at the door knob, you can adjust your latch plate a little tight to make the door fit as tight as possible. The way I'd start is to take out the hinge pins, then set the door on edge with the hinges up. Put the new door next to it, making sure the doors are even at the top. Check the crown so the corners touch the jamb on the new door. Take a square and mark the ends of the hinge on your new door. Measure the gap between the edge of door to the hinges and mark that. Then I'd take a hammer and chisel and make the cut for the hinges, one at a time. A utility knife works well to make a cut on the edges. Screw the hinges to the new door. If the door will fit into the opening you can hang it in the jamb now, otherwise you will have to cut the bottom off so it will fit into the opening. If you have an old fashioned threshold, make the cut so the door will just barely clear the opening, as you will have to fit it to the threshold later. Lay the door down with a short piece of 2x4 under the end you need to cut off. Determine the length and mark it on the face side of the door, and take a straight edge and mark it, then take a utility knife and make a cut using the straight edge. The cut will keep the door from splintering, and when you cut it off, stay slightly below the cut mark. Use a skil saw to cut the door off, and set the blade so it just barely goes completely through. Next hang the door in the jamb, and see how it fits. If the door is too wide for the jamb, hold it against the jamb and have someone take a pencil and mark the edge of the jamb from the outside. If you have to plane it, you will have to take a little more than the mark to make the door fit the jamb. They need about 1/8" clearance. Once the door fits the jamb, you can mark the center of your latch plate to the door, put a mark on the edge right on the center of the latch plate, and use a rental jig to drill the knob. Make sure you drill the backset correctly for the knob you plan to use. Drill the big hole first, and then make the small hole from the edge to the larger knob hole. Next you will have to fit the bottom. If your jamb has a metal sill, you can just mark it the same as the old door, and cut it the same and install the bottom seal from the old door. If you have a removable threshold, buy a new threshold and install it according to the instructions. This is not an easy job, so take your time and be careful.

[Mel Fulks]

I disagree with the "all doors are crowned " .I think all stock factory made doors is a more accurate description.

[lowell holmes]

I've built doors before. I recently made a new door for my residence. There are conventional ways to build doors.

I suggest you buy the New Yankee Workshop video for making a door. His door is a bit different, but the video and plans will get you started.

He joins the stiles and rails with loose tenons. I find that method to be good.

On my door, I did cope and stick construction, but used loose tenons to strengthen the joints.

OBTW, my new front door weighed 140 pounds. You should plan on a helper when you hang the door.

There is a 15 dollar book at Amazon. Check the following link.

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Like-Pro-Windows-Doors/dp/1561584835/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1379288344&sr=8-2&keywords=build+a+door



You will find several publications om Amazon for this subject.

[Fred Chan]

Door replacements not too difficult. Inspect the fit of the old door in its jamb to see if any size adjustment is required. Then remove door and trace its shape onto the new door slab making sure to align the hinge side. Be aware that the solid wood piece on the top and bottom is not very wide so you might need to cut some off both top and bottom if the old door is much shorter than the new slab. Then clamp both doors together matching the hinge sides. Use a square to transfer the hinge locations to the new door then use a chisel to cut the mortise. Do not cut the mortise too deep. I prefer to have the hinge sit a little bit proud on the pin side because the door will not close properly if it is below the surface. Install the hinge and hang the new door. Use a plane to fine tune the fit and presto a new door! Lock sets all come with a template guide for easy hole placement. Oh yeah almost forgot, the knob side of the door is trimmed at a slight angle for clearance when the door swings. The most important thing is DO NOT CUT HINGE TOO DEEP!

[Joseph Tarantino]

......is there a source where he could just buy a door only. We would then trim it and fit it to the existing framing....

i'd get whatever type slab of the appropriate size from either HD, lowes or a local lumber yard. use the existing door to locate hinges and lockset (is it a mortise or a cylinder lock set?). or find a prehung door that'll replace the door section of the existing door and two sidelites unit.

[Peter Quinn]

I disagree with the "all doors are crowned " .I think all stock factory made doors is a more accurate description.

I disagree with Mel's disagreement but am not wholly in agreement with Jim either. I would say many doors are crowned, perhaps even most, but not all, and that it is not a major problem for a good installer within certain parameters. Some think any door that is not dead flat is ruined, but in fact most wood doors are not dead flat, or will not remain so over a lifetime. When I 'm making a pile of doors after I've flattened all the stiles, my first step of layout is to pair and crown the stiles, usually the day after flattening so you can see who is moving where. If you can flatten stiles for 40 doors, or four for that matter, and have them all stay dead flat permanently over 80+ inches, you should probably also be walking on water and performing other such miracles, and carpentry may come as a natural occupation. My boss prefers not to blow 7000BF of lumber per door looking for the few stiles that will remain dead flat, so me, I crown and pair, and the crown always goes away from the stops, on this point I agree with Jim, points touch, stops bend, weather strip is flexible for a reason.


Where to get a slab? I have no idea. I see some places on line selling entry door slabs but have never tried any of them. Oddly, a slab of any interest may be a special order these days. Most times when a door is shot, the jamb set may not be far behind, good time to replace the whole entry, tough to get a sill out for replacement many times given how they are typically constructed. I understand the need to preserve the leaded glass, is there no separation between the doors jamb and the stained glass side lites? Often there would be some mullions that can be removed, door and jamb extracted, but not always if constructed as a single unit. Sometimes it takes a little nerve racking exploration to discover the construction details.

[Ellen Benkin]

I don't know where you live, but can you find a craftsman who can build a door? I had my front door destroyed by someone trying to break in (didn't make it) and wanted to reuse a leaded glass panel from the old door. I found someone who could make the door and someone else who could hang it. It was pricey, but it works and looks good.

[Mel Fulks]

Well in the cases where a solid wood door is made of fir or some other conifer I make the exterior side all bark side wood and mark it exterior side ,sometimes "this side must be exterior or warranty is void". If there is glass in the door we put stops to exterior side ,some doors can not be turned around. If it is a pair of doors I mark which side is to get hinged ,the lock stiles are not going out with any bow.

[Carl Beckett]

Good point. He did try to find someone to build a custom door, and it was pricey

I'm in MA. Any of you local professionals want to quote it?

Anyone want to guess what it would cost in mA to have this done? (hint... Much much more than in other parts of the country)

[Jeff Duncan]

Nope! But it's going to be expensive for sure! I don't do exterior doors as they're so much more involved than interior. One reason I like to buy exterior pre-hung is all the weather stripping is in place. Hanging a door in a pre-existing jamb is not all that hard, but if you want a well insulated and tightly sealed door, well that's a bit more involved;)

As far as exterior door suppliers there's JB sash and Door as well as many lumberyards that should be able to get you what your looking for.

good luck,
JeffD

[Ellen Benkin]

I won't guess about Massachusetts, but I'm in Los Angeles and it wasn't cheap there!

[Carl Beckett]

I do appreciate all the insights. Will send an update when we have a more clear path forward.

He did mention that the first quotes he got were in the $3000 range - more than he wanted to spend. I know a decent prehung will cost some money, but 3 grand does seem like a lot.

I have built and hung some doors for other purposes, but never a front entrance so it will take a little care and deliberation, but with some patience feel pretty comfortable about it. (famous last words....!!)

And I didnt tell him that I had a set of external door cutters for the shaper (and a pile of white oak for it) - was going to make that my own project. Too much for just neighborly helping out.

[Jeff Duncan]

Yup...not cheap! It's going to depend a lot on the design of the door as well though!

If your leaning towards helping him by making the door be careful! If you don't have experience building exterior doors I would not want to practice on a neighbors....at least one I want to stay friendly with;) What happens if something goes awry a year or 2 down the road? Also there's a good reason why good doors cost money, they're very time consuming to make. You don't want to sell yourself short if your estimating your time to build one. As I said before, I don't bother with exterior, but a simple interior door slab is going to start at $1k and pre-hung with matching species jambs get closer to $2k, then they can go up depending on design!

Have him check out several door suppliers and get prices for their "stock" doors. I don't think it's likely he's going to get any better prices by having them custom made unless it's by someone building out of there garage just to see if they can do it:eek:

good luck,
JeffD

[Mel Fulks]

Reading it all again ,its not clear to me if the house is old or what the door size needs to be . The stained glass makes me wonder. If the house is old it may be an odd size not available without custom order. In that area you might find an appropriate door at an architectural salvage place.

[Mark Wooden]

I agree with Mel and his views on door construction, his are the parameters that should be met when choosing a door. Start straight, finish straight.

[Carl Beckett]

Will post some pics and more details once I have them (have been traveling)

There is no intention of making a door from scratch. And I dnt really want another project so it's going to be whatever is efficient/effective. Meaning a premade door. Possibly a pre hung depending on whether it will work/fit.

[Richard DiCerb]

271601271602271603In addition , Wood needs to be absolutely dry and stable, I have always found it makes for a better job if there pre hung.

[Rick Potter]

No expert here, but if you decide to find a used door, the Habitat resale store near me has quite a selection. Some are very nice.

Also, I have found that cutting down new doors for an odd size opening is tricky (I have an old rental). The new big box doors have very little wood in the stiles, and if you cut a slab door down the screws might not hold.

Rick Potter

[Michael Pearce]

It is possible to retain the classic style of your friend's front door glass by using custom manufactured doors that could designed to include the original frame and glass. The frame needs to be checked for insulation quality and if it is sturdy enough to hold the new door. The lockset to match can be replaced fitted by professional companies such as Champion Window (http://www.yellowpages.com/pelham-al/mip/champion-window-of-birmingham-473731175) if you check out their recommendations. I had my front door replaced and they custom designed and fitted it. They provide energy efficient doors with warranties as well.