Weird Jointer Combo Machine Croaked.

[bruce Humphrey]

Greetings everyone. I am a longtime DYIer and slowly getting into woodworking. I have been lurking for the last couple of years while we completed the garage and addition. Now I finally have some room and am ready to organize the shop. I have a borrowed table saw and band saw plus all the normal stuff (miter saw etc.) My first dedicated WW tool is a jointer/planer/borer combo machine that I got from CL for a couple of hundred bucks a few years ago. It is Italian made. It is labeled "Arbor PFS-300" it is 12". I have started using it (I just got the new garage wired for 220) on my first project, the DJMarks assembly table. While working on the last white oak edge piece. the jointer ran slower and slower and then stopped. I guess the motor died. I couldn't find anything on that company on the internet. Here is my question. What is the difficulty level in fixing up an old tool? What is involved? new motor? bearings? Should I just chunk it? I definitely need a jointer. I am lucky enough to have access to lots of timber. Every time a nice tree falls I take it to the sawmill, so milling lumber will be a big part of my woodworking. I think a new jointer with anywhere near that size would be pretty expensive and I have lots of other tools to buy :)

thanks for the responses and the great site.
-B

[Rick Lizek]

Of course it's worth fixing up. You could take the motor to a motor repair shop and have them check it out. Based on your description of the machine is a planer, jointer, slot mortiser. Perfect machine for doing loose tenon joints and if you only paid a few hundred bucks for it you got a fantastic deal. Post a picture. Easily worth a few thousand dollars especially if it's a 12 inch machine, even used. Fix it up.

[Mike Cutler]

Bruce

It's alot cheaper to repair/replace that motor than buy a new machine.
Bearings have standard markings on them, and are easy to match to a replacement bearing. Manufacturer's rarely have a bearing made for them and select them based on spec's from what is available. Bearings are easily changed.

You should post a pic of it. Many times machines sold under various manufacturers are very similar to each other because they were made to individual spec's, in the same factories, but branded with different labels. Manufacturers also surrender/sell their patent rights,and another may pick it up and make an identical machine
Put a picture up and it's an odds on bet someone can identify it, or a clone of it.

[Erik Loza]

Bruce, if you can post a photo, I can probably tell you who the actual mfr. is. As Mike pointed out, it is more than likely made by one company and badged for another (if it's really Italian, Griggio comes to mind...).

Also, if you can, post up what the specs on the motors are. From the metal ID plate which is riveted to the aluminum motor housing. In particular, whether they are 60Hz or 50Hz.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[bruce Humphrey]

OK thanks, I will post a pic today,,,

[bruce Humphrey]

270839270840270841270842270843

here are the pics. Let me know if anyone would like to see specific parts etc.
thanks
b

[Richard Coers]

Bruce, if you can post a photo, I can probably tell you who the actual mfr. is. As Mike pointed out, it is more than likely made by one company and badged for another (if it's really Italian, Griggio comes to mind...).

Also, if you can, post up what the specs on the motors are. From the metal ID plate which is riveted to the aluminum motor housing. In particular, whether they are 60Hz or 50Hz.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA


Could be a Lurem Erik, but maybe those are older than you!

[peter gagliardi]

It is belt drive it appears, so unbolt, and fish it out of there, bring to a motor repair shop. They can test, and if bad, a new one should only be another few hundred $.
This is a very easy fix!
If it was direct drive, the conversation might be different, depending on how good your repair shop was.

[bruce Humphrey]

60hz motor in case you can't read it.

[HANK METZ]

“I guess the motor died”.

Guessing can be expensive, so isolate and identify the real problem first. Did the motor trip a breaker or go into thermal cutout? If not, disconnect the belt drive and do a restart and see if she rolls. If yes, rotate the head’s drive assembly by hand to determine if anything downstream from the motor is causing the problem. More to follow based on what you find.

[Erik Loza]

Could be a Lurem Erik, but maybe those are older than you!

Hahaha, no kidding. Wasn't Lurem French, though? I don't remember. Or maybe I'm thinking of Kity?

Bruce, the good news is that it appears to be a 60Hz motor (many times, it was 50Hz, which would be unfortunate). Anyhow, 3hp ought be adequate for what you are trying to do. Was it the jointer which shut down on you or were you thickness planing?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rod Sheridan]

The first place I would start after seeing the photographs is cleaning all those chips out of the machine, and then checking the belt.

Are you using a dust extractor on that machine?

If not you're going to have problems running it...........Rod.

[bruce Humphrey]

Hahaha, no kidding. Wasn't Lurem French, though? I don't remember. Or maybe I'm thinking of Kity?

Bruce, the good news is that it appears to be a 60Hz motor (many times, it was 50Hz, which would be unfortunate). Anyhow, 3hp ought be adequate for what you are trying to do. Was it the jointer which shut down on you or were you thickness planing?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

I was Jointing

Jointer shut down. seemed to be running fine and it slowed to a stop and the switch turned off on it's own. The motor felt a little hot but not smoking or anything. I waited and then tried to turn it on again. it clicked back off immediately.

[bruce Humphrey]

“I guess the motor died”.

Guessing can be expensive, so isolate and identify the real problem first. Did the motor trip a breaker or go into thermal cutout? If not, disconnect the belt drive and do a restart and see if she rolls. If yes, rotate the head’s drive assembly by hand to determine if anything downstream from the motor is causing the problem. More to follow based on what you find.

thanks for the direction, I will perform these tasks this evening.

[bruce Humphrey]

The first place I would start after seeing the photographs is cleaning all those chips out of the machine, and then checking the belt.

Are you using a dust extractor on that machine?

If not you're going to have problems running it...........Rod.

No dust collection, I am not sure it has any ports etc for that.

[Steve Jenkins]

Hahaha, no kidding. Wasn't Lurem French, though? I don't remember. Or maybe I'm thinking of Kity?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

Yes the Lurem was French. I had a 16" combo (C410) that I bought direct from them in France in 1982. It served me well for about 20 years then I sold it and bought individual machines.

[bruce Humphrey]

OK after side cover removal. it looks like the chain for the planer feed came off and got in a bind. and then the little flat belt that drives it and spins the bigger silver pulley broke.
The motor and arbor spin freely. the arbor bearings have no play or noise when turned by hand.
I plugged the machine back in and turned it on. It seemed to take longer than normal to get up to speed. Maybe 3 seconds instead of 1.
turned it off and back on again. It seemed to spin up normally the second time.
the only abnormal thing was a strong smell immediately after turning on. not burning at all. it was a chemical smell. I have never seen flat belts like that. are they common in woodworking equipment? What's my next move? get the motor checked out? thanks again for taking the time.
b

270865270866270867

[Duane Meadows]

Start cap?

[Phil Thien]

Well, flat belts aren't uncommon. Go to McMaster.com and enter "flat drive belts" in the search bar to see some options.

[Bill Neely]

Here's a company that specializes in drive components, belts, pulleys, etc. https://sdp-si.com/eStore/CoverPg/Drive_Components.htm

[Jason White]

You need to get a dust collector for that thing! My guess is that the motor got clogged up with sawdust. :eek:

Open up the motor, blow it out with your air compressor, then see if it runs again. You probably tripped a thermal overload switch (if you're lucky), so don't forget to reset it.

As for a dust collector port, you need to order one from the manufacturer or you can probably fab one up yourself with sheet metal and some pop rivets. Either way, you will always have problems with that machine (which is a beautiful machine, by the way) without a dust collector.

[bruce Humphrey]

ran it again today(no load). the jointer seemed to spin at the regular speed, but the smell persisted. I let it ran for a few minutes. when I turned it off, the motor wasn't even warm, but the black box that sits on top was pretty hot. I think that is where the smell is originating from. I guess I will take it to the motor repair shop on Monday, thanks again for all of the info.
b

[Jason White]

Sounds like the starter cap (capacitor) might be oozing fluid. As others have said, it's fairly easy to replace.



ran it again today(no load). the jointer seemed to spin at the regular speed, but the smell persisted. I let it ran for a few minutes. when I turned it off, the motor wasn't even warm, but the black box that sits on top was pretty hot. I think that is where the smell is originating from. I guess I will take it to the motor repair shop on Monday, thanks again for all of the info.
b

[bruce Humphrey]

Bruce, if you can post a photo, I can probably tell you who the actual mfr. is. As Mike pointed out, it is more than likely made by one company and badged for another (if it's really Italian, Griggio comes to mind...).

Also, if you can, post up what the specs on the motors are. From the metal ID plate which is riveted to the aluminum motor housing. In particular, whether they are 60Hz or 50Hz.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

Hey Erik,
did those jointer pics ring a bell? I think I remember the guy I bought it from saying it was from the 80s. I would be curious to see if I could get parts for it especially a guard.

thanks
b

[bruce Humphrey]

Conclusion:

looks like the thing in the black box melted. (see Pic). Based on the posts I would guess it is the starter capacitor. I am happy that this should be an easy fix and I don't have to spend a lot of $$ on a new Jointer. I have bandsaws, planers etc to buy :). 270957 if the repair shop has any new discoveries I will post, Otherwise, sincere thanks to everyone for replies and moral support.
-B

[bruce Humphrey]

Electric motor shop fixed for $20.72. very pleased.

[Rod Sheridan]

It's probably the run capacitor.

Is the motor rated for 60Hertz?

It may need a smaller capacitor for 60 Hertz operation..........Rod.

[Ray Rogers]

Erik,
I know it's one year later... I have found this jointer/planer for sale in my area for (what I thin) is a song (maybe as low as $500). Were you ever able to figure out who the manufacture of this jointer/planer? And in your opinion, is this a good machine??
Ray

[Peter Kelly]

I believe Arbor Costruzioni Macchine Utensili seems to have been an independent manufacturer of metal and woodworking machines. I'm assuming they went out of business prior to advent of the internet.

Their lathe/mill combination looks pretty cool: http://www.clockmaker.it/files_forum/monografie/arbor/tornio-fresa_Arbor_CM_110_140/arbor_CM-110_140.pdf
http://www.lathes.co.uk/arbor/

Interestingly, ACM (http://acmitaly.it/ita/contatti) is also located in the same town, Novellara.

[Jim Matthews]

The first place I would start after seeing the photographs is cleaning all those chips out of the machine, and then checking the belt.

Are you using a dust extractor on that machine?

If not you're going to have problems running it...........Rod.

+1 even money says this thing is just choked with dust.

DERP

Gotta read dem postin date.

[daniel lane]

I love zombie threads. Reminds me of my chisel FreeStuff drawing thread. Have to watch and see how many people post possible culprits for the problem before they notice it was the starter cap. :)


daniel