small business owners with some insight/experience to share?

[Brandon Ketchum]

My name is Brandon and I am a 30 y/o combat wounded/retired vet. I have the opportunity to pursue virtually any career that I am able to handle within my physical and mental limitations, and I could think of none other than wood working shop. I have been researching on my own as well as having several organizations provide me with a tremendous amount of help. I would just like to hear any experience/insight that others went thru. I greatly appreciate any help

[John Schweikert]

Brandon

I am just a hobbyist, so probably not much help. I just wanted to say Thank You for your service. I hope others in the business of woodworking can chime in with some good advice.

[Richard Coers]

First, thank-you for your service.
I ran a custom woodworking business from 1987 to 1995. It was a way to make a living, but not a good one. I only had to work half days, (that's 12 hours), 6 days a week. That time included working a 10 hour day, going home for dinner, then going out to talk with customers about future work. So some days started at 7:00 am and ended at 9:00 pm. On those days, I only say my kids at breakfast and dinner. If my wife had not been employed with benefits, we would not have survived. I can't imagine doing it today, especially starting from scratch. Developing a customer base will be incredibly difficult. In that line of work, you have to "sell" yourself, before your work. Custom work demands that you get a down payment, and it is a real leap of faith for them to send you on your way with a check for $5,000 and they don't know you from Adam and won't get their purchase for a couple months. I got many referrals from interior designrers, which puts the customer at ease. Today's customer seems less patient on time (I often had 6 months of backlog and they had to wait that long before I started), and also more price savy with research at their finger tips on the internet. Foriegn imports in bedroom furniture and now kitchen cabinets have really taken those markets away from small shops. I do think you could make some money if you were in a tourist area, and could turn over quick product, priced at less than $100. I closed my business and went back into the industry, now working as a modelmaker. I turn and sell some work through an artist studio, but have a lot of trouble selling large scale work except at Christmas shopping times. I do sell a few hundred dollars worth a month, but mostly small items like jewelry. Woodworking is not easy on the body either. I have more joint pain than I care to talk about, one finger that is short from an accident, and other aches and pains that can limit some work I used to do. You will be exposed to dust and chemicals, not a good thing for your long term health. At 61, it's a good thing I will be able to retire at the end of the year, I've gotten pretty well used up. Good luck to you, but I will caution that in the Midwest anyway, it's a really really small percent of the population that appreciates hand made work. Well, lots appreciate it, but few will justify spending the money to support it. Best of luck to you.

[Jeff Duncan]

That's a tough call without knowing you and your experience, capabilities etc.. Running a profitable woodworking shop in this economy is not an easy task. I'm not going to sit here though and lecture you on why you shouldn't open a shop as I don't think that kind of advice really helps much anyway. What I will say is as much as I do for the most part enjoy what I do for a living, if I could go back in time I would have done things very differently. I also know for my son taking over the shop is not an option I'm willing to give him. I know a lot of others will disagree, but I'd rather see him do something that pays him for his knowledge, than a career that wears you out physically and mentally prematurely. It's a tough business in every way and many shops fail before they ever make a profit. Whether or not you can succeed is dependent on a lot of factors many not controlled by you.

Anyway sorry for the doom and gloom outlook, but I've seen too many guys around me close their doors over the last 5 years. If it's what you really want to do and are determined I wouldn't let anyone stop you. I'd just hate for someone to invest everything in a career that's high risk at best:o

good luck with whatever you choose.....and thanks for your service!
JeffD

[Joe Hillmann]

What type of woodworking do you want to do? Cabinets? Furniture? Small projects? Arts and crafts?

[Brandon Ketchum]

Thanks for your response. Definately no doom and gloom, I have been working on my plan for the two years i was in the wounded warrior unit. Im able to get around and take care of my self, but no heavy labor for me. I am looking for a small outfit, as it is going to be a supplement to my pension as well as a very theraputic daily activity. The BLS stats for my geographical area were above the average, but would be hard as a sole source of income. I am more interested in honing my skills and producing some quality products to vets. Due to the circumstances I have an opportunity to do whatever i am able to and have many resourses at my disposal. I am not trying to sound like i should have it easy or anything, but that is kind of how it worked out. I asked because so many have had bad experiences. thanks for your insight.

[Joe Hillmann]

Do you have any options of the army paying for schooling for you?

[Brandon Ketchum]

Thanks for your insight, i appreciate it. Even tho i am a beginner, i have already obtained most of the equipment and tools that i need. i will be mentored thru the rest of the planning stage by vocational rehabilitation counselour that is helping me get back into at least part time work. I will never be a large or even semi large scale operation. I am also being given the opportunity to attend an instructional facility to recieve a high level of skilled training in many different aspects. My main concern has been thewear on the body, but at 30 i already have 10 titanium screws and rods holding me together. I have a specific target consumer and will be selling products for much less than the larger projects. I actually am retired from the military and that is why I have chosen this. But that also shows just how naive i maybe.

[Erik Loza]

Brandon, what exactly is it that you want to manufacture? Cabinetry or arts and crafts-type stuff? Sorry if I missed that.

Thanks,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Richard Coers]

I am quite skeptical that you can get the training needed to run a woodworking business from the sources you suggest. It's miles of seperation in knowledge from those kind of counselors, to people that have done it. The old adage of those that can do, those that can't teach. They will be able to teach you book keeping, but the people skills, pricing, actual woodworking skills, etc.... will be up to you. If you get into small woodcraft work, your competition just went up exponentially. And your oppotunity for profit went the other direction. If you do have those limited physical abilities, I suggest you look at CNC carving, or laser cutting/engraving. Both of those leave the demanding work to the "robot" while you load, unload, and sell. It can also keep the scale smaller, and let's you offer smaller gift and tourist items.

[Tom Walz]

Erik Loza's question is right on.

Check out fab.com, http://shop.coolmaterial.com/ and similar.

Lots of unique wood products out there.

Tom

[Charles Lent]

A big thank you for your service to our country.

How about editing your profile, mostly to show us where you are located. Maybe one of us who lives close to you can give you some more personal help than we can here.

In North Carolina and the surrounding states we have an internet group/club of woodworkers. We not only help each other over the internet, but we have a trailer full of tools that we take to various locations to help others get started in woodworking. One of our main reasons for putting this trailer together was for the Wounded Warrior Program. This year the trailer and some of our more talented members have been to Ft Bragg and to other locations several times to help wounded warriors get started in woodworking, and we will be taking this program to other North Carolina military locations in the near future.

Send me a PM if you want to learn more about this program and I'll put you in contact with our Wounded Warrior Program leader.

Charley

[Jim Andrew]

I'd have to say that sales are the secret to success. Do you have any experience in sales? I see a couple ways to go, one would be to make just a few pieces of furniture, that you can duplicate over and over, if there is a store you could deal with that would do the marketing. If you would like to do cabinets, it would be as a custom shop and you would have to either have a good salesman or be that salesman. It takes quite a bit of work to turn out a kitchen, and being able to sell the job, measure and design it correctly, and build and install it is quite a bit of work. I was involved in a shop for a few years, and measuring was a nightmare. The partner who did the measuring and selling was constantly making mistakes, and we would have to rebuild cabinets and tops to make the job work, after it was determined to be wrong. What a nightmare!

[Brandon Ketchum]

I want to work on a smaller scale, items like what i am making and trying to improve on now, as well as various other military displays. It is very common, accross the branches. crafty type items possibly, but really just on a smaller scale. But I am open to change.

[Brandon Ketchum]

im quite skeptical that you really know what voc rehab is what they do. no worries tho richard. and i am sure, actually certain that somethings cannot be taught, but if there is drive, and desire, and a passion, it can happen. i looked into it some and there is a facility in misourri that will definately broaden my skills. it is only wood working. i go to school locally for small business mgmt/entrpeneurship. this is taking place over a period of time. iand in the mean time, i learn lot from the people i talk to.

[Brandon Ketchum]

the va pays the military gi bill. for the ones that get rocked and then get medically discharged, there are other services/resources to further assist us because we cant do what we used to, so another occupation or form of employment must be recognized. i told them i liked to make stuff with wood, they found me options.

[Brandon Ketchum]

there are many options available, as people always want something different. and the school is called american woodworking academy, in fenton mo. is that not a good place? i really dont know but from what i saw online and researched, it seemed like a great opportunity

[Brandon Ketchum]

i wasnt implicating that anyone can be as skilled you all probably are, i enjoy it so much as a hobby that i choose to invest my time into a new field where i could be happy, not just work for a check. you all bring up very valid obstacles and risks. sorry for drawing so much fire, i meant no disrespect.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Brandon, the woodworking part is only part of the challenge. I had had 40 years' woodworking experience, and woodworking and design in college, before I made my first foray into my own business as a woodworker. ..And then it was touch and go for 5 years before things began to settle in and I found a system that worked. In other words, you can't expect to make a living, or even make a profit for that matter, for some time into the venture.

The really big thing is how you will market your stuff, and a lot of that depends on what you intend to make, or what service you intend to provide. They work hand-in-hand ; they each depend on the other. You've got to do a market analysis and develop a detailed business plan. Now, I know everybody says that and maybe you have dismissed it, but it's very important to have solid plans and a good working model in order to have a successful business.

It's certainly possible you could start your business and develop your plan, trial and error, as you go, but keep in mind that that strategy will certainly result in fits and starts and making lots of things that will clutter the shelves of your shop or end up in the dump or be given away and in buying equipment that will prove to be not the best investment as time passes and your business evolves. The development of your business would drag out for a long time. ..But there's nothing wrong with that as long as you've got other financial backing. If you love woodworking, the time in the shop will be the best time.

You may want to consider an apprenticeship-type arrangement, if you can find one that suits you. You could work for someone during the day and learn the business, and try your own things in your shop and develop your client base, in the evening and weekends.

[George Gyulatyan]

No affilication, I'm not even a member, but wanted to mention you might want to check woodweb dawt com forums for advice on running a professional woodworking business as that site is much more geared towards business and production. There are some great discussions on production, workflow, efficiency, etc that will help maximize profits.

[Erik Loza]

Brandon, I agree with the gentlemen who are telling you to put sales and marketing in front of everything else. In my experience, you will be more succesful by having exceptional marketing and sales skills and a mediocre product than having the greatest product but poor marketing. That being said, I am hearing that you are maybe more interested in the artistic side of things in regards to woodworking than in the production side of things.

I have a customer who was in a similar situation and began his home based business with a CNC laser (Epilog) and then a Shopbot CNC unit. He was making all sorts of built to order little pieces out of wood, UHMW plastic, phenolic, etc. and became very successful with that. He made interesting things that many folks could afford and were unique to him. Have you considered anything like that? A laser or small CNC is reasonably affordable (at least on par with industrial ww'ing machinery) and could allow you to create items that could be unique in design to you and also be very easy to market. I'm no expert on any of this, just thinking out loud.

Best of luck to you.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[James Conrad]

Brandon, maybe I am missing it, but still don't see what specific type of help you are looking for. What do you want to make, do, produce with your woodworking? You mention a specific target market, that's good, but what is it? We need specifics on what you want to concentrate on, region, short and long-term goals, etc. Without the meat of the conversion it is hard to provide guidance.

SMC is a large community of people and I would say the majority are hobbiest woodworkers who have vast experiences in important subjects as marketing, design, electronics, manufacturing... There is a deep knowledge well here along side those who make a living with wood. Specifics are important to good advice and guidance in both directions.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice.

[Roy Harding]

Brandon:

I'm also a retired vet (in my case from the Canadian Military) - I served with your forces in Bosnia, Croatia, and Afghanistan - to echo others, thank you for your service.

I have been a hobbyist since my early twenty's (I'm in my fifty's now). When I retired from the CF in 2004, I decided to turn my hobby into a business. I was able to attend trade school (paid for by the military), and took the Cabinetmaker apprenticeship courses (it's important to note that I took all four year's worth in one year, and DIDN'T apprentice myself out to anyone - the school let me do this due to my (ahem) "advanced age".) I found that year invaluable - I learned things I didn't know, learned how to do things I DID know PROPERLY, and learned how to do what I'd been doing for 30 years FASTER and BETTER. I don't know if your military will pay for similar training for you.

After completion of those courses, I worked in a cabinet shop for a while, and then for a custom woodworking outfit for a while. My wife and I then pulled pole and moved to our present location in northern British Columbia, I built a shop from the ground up on our small acreage, and I went into business for myself.

Most of my business is of the "craft" variety (small boxes, blanket chests, and the like) with the occasional piece of custom furniture for locals. Although I participate in the local Farmer's Market, a local art gallery, various local craft shows, and some online sales (I was on Etsy for a while, but closed that down and I'm currently working on my own website), the vast majority of my business is supplying "locally made" souvenirs to various gift shops in Jasper, Banff, Vancouver, and Vancouver Island. I DO NOT do cabinets (except for my wife) - I just couldn't see competing with what's available from the big manufacturers - not to mention that I HATE installing the damned things, and I REALLY dislike working in other folks' homes (I don't do built-ins either, for that very reason).

I have a fairly well appointed shop which includes a small (24" X 18") Shopbot CNC router. That router has been my "ace in the hole" - it allows me to place carved inlays of anything you can imagine on the lids of my boxes, and the front of my chests. Those carved inlays are my "gimmick", which enabled me to stand out from the crowd when marketing my wares. It doesn't need any attention while carving, so I set it going, and carry on with other tasks while it works away. I pretty much exclusively use red cedar and pine for my boxes and chests - both are harvested and milled locally, so they are pretty cheap for me.

All that said - although I make a decent enough income from my little business, it would not be enough for me to raise a family. My family is all grown and gone, leaving just my wife and me. I also receive a pension for my service, and without that pension I'd have to look for different work and relegate my woodworking back to hobby status. It's more of a "lifestyle" job that I can afford only because of my pension.

Others have commented on the various pitfalls involved in a woodworking business - for what it's worth, I'd suggest that if you have a family to raise, you consider some other means of supporting them (that could well be an apprenticeship leading to full time work as a cabinetmaker/joiner/furniture maker) rather than trying to support them while starting a small woodworking business. If on the OTHER hand, there's just you to consider - then go for it, keeping in mind that you PROBABLY will not get rich doing it.

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

[Brandon Ketchum]

thank yoiu george. that was mentioned to me by a member today. but i really like the honesty and skill level/quality of work that people share on here. some very talented people

[Jerome Stanek]

You should check out the option of a CNC to do your crafts and carvings. A good place to see some great options is the Lets talk shop bot forum

[Roy Harding]

thank yoiu george. that was mentioned to me by a member today. but i really like the honesty and skill level/quality of work that people share on here. some very talented people

I'm a member there too - and it IS more oriented toward the business/production end of things.

[Tom Walz]

Just got an email from Huckberry - whiskey soaked toothpicks.

Also get emails from Best Made

Lots of expensive stuff being sold out there.

[J.R. Rutter]

Get schooled up in small business first: taxes, pricing, products, etc. Take a look at Lean Manufacturing concepts a bit, to avoid wasting time and material. Try to find a customer (or class of customers) before you start - provide what they are looking for it is much easier than finding a market for your thingamajig.