Hitachi B600a Re saw and Motor question

[jack forsberg]

picked this up for $400 and looking for likes and dislikes from other owners. I will be fitting it with a 3 Phase 5 hp motor and not the one that came with it(120 volt brush motor). The OEM motor is gone and and am looking for pics and the rpm motor pulley speeds if some one has this machine.

thanks for any help or comments


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7oyPdVl-Zg

[Mike Henderson]

If you're going to put a 3 phase motor on it, why not use a VFD for speed control?

Mike

[Dick Mahany]

If you're going to put a 3 phase motor on it, why not use a VFD for speed control?

Great suggestion. That would be an excellent combo.

[jack forsberg]

If you're going to put a 3 phase motor on it, why not use a VFD for speed control?

Mike

Hi Mike

there are a few reasons i am not going with a VFD.


1 i have a RPC so i have 3 phase power already so no need for phase conversion.

2 5HP VFDs are on the pricy side $650

3 don't need speed control on a re saw generally as the blade speed are general fix at an optimum SFPM (surface feet per of between 3200 and 5000).

4 if i did use a VFD to dial in the SFPM on the saw and lower the motors speed by lowering the Hrs you lower the HP of the motor. eg a 5 hp motor at 60 hrz is 2.5 hp at 30hrz.

[David Kumm]

I agree that a vfd isn't needed here but as HZ is reduced, the torque can remain almost the same- I think 85% at 30 hz so the power remains almost the same. As motors run over 60 hz the useful power goes down about 1% for each point hz is increased so those who run a motor at 120 hz really take a haircut. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

I agree that a vfd isn't needed here but as HZ is reduced, the torque can remain almost the same- I think 85% at 30 hz so the power remains almost the same. As motors run over 60 hz the useful power goes down about 1% for each point hz is increased so those who run a motor at 120 hz really take a haircut. Dave

Hi David, even if the torque can remain at 100%, the HP will fall in direct relation to shaft speed.....Rod.

[Rick Potter]

Hi Jack,

I have a Ryobi resaw machine that looks a lot like your Hitachi, but not as heavy duty. My dad bought it new in the 80's (?). I think he paid $1800 for it then. You mention yours originally had a brush motor. Mine has a universal motor that looks like it belongs on a Skilsaw. Without looking I would say it is probably 1/2 HP. My machine has a 1 1/2" Stellite (not carbide) blade, and only resaw's a little more than 6". I have been told it is a good saw for Luthiers, but I have never had a need for it, so it sits at my daughters house, and YES it is noisy. If I could figure out a use for it, I would put an induction motor on it also.

Rick Potter

[Sam Babbage]

We have a newer 3ph version (possibly larger diameter wheels but same width blade) at work, I can't immediately get specs as I'm on site for a few days. Ours is pretty beasty, cuts true and fast (last time was in some cambia, a heat treated ash(?) which is quite hard.) Blades are very expensive, at least down under and we found a taller fence face (which also lets you set for any tiny amount of drift) helps. It does nothing a good bandsaw with a good blade can't do, but if you cut a lot of veneers it's nice, and is quite compact for what it can do.

Edit: When I said "does nothing..." I was speaking for the hobbiest, they do cut a finer kerf and you can be faster/"rougher" with them than a normal big bandsaw, but unless you are working VERY expensive wood or high volume, then these attributes are probably irrelevant.

[David Kumm]

Hi David, even if the torque can remain at 100%, the HP will fall in direct relation to shaft speed.....Rod.

Yes, because the rpm drops but the motor isn't applying less power to the job so the practical stall limit remains the same. Dave

[jack forsberg]

the pulley on the bottom wheel is small and the tag said on the machines the motor was 1050 rpm. don't have the motor or pulley size though so i don't know how many SFPM the blade runs. Its looks slower than most machines i have seen.

As far as i know the hp remains the same at or above 60hz lower it and you don't have as much power. At least on the hzs to volts VFDs, it a little better on the vector drives below 60hz. so its best to get slower motors(more polls) and speed them up as apposed to faster motors(less polls) and slow them down if you want HP not torque and i want HP. so i trying to hit the mechanical speed if i can with pulleys.

[Phil Thien]

Hi Jack,

I have a Ryobi resaw machine that looks a lot like your Hitachi, but not as heavy duty. My dad bought it new in the 80's (?). I think he paid $1800 for it then. You mention yours originally had a brush motor. Mine has a universal motor that looks like it belongs on a Skilsaw. Without looking I would say it is probably 1/2 HP. My machine has a 1 1/2" Stellite (not carbide) blade, and only resaw's a little more than 6". I have been told it is a good saw for Luthiers, but I have never had a need for it, so it sits at my daughters house, and YES it is noisy. If I could figure out a use for it, I would put an induction motor on it also.

Rick Potter

Are you saying it will only resaw 6" because it is power-limited? Because I think the Ryobi Resaw will handle 12" high stock.

[Rick Potter]

Hi Phil,

I am saying it will only take 6" high stock. Power seems fine, the few test cuts I have made. Dad used it to slice 2x4's into 1/8" thick strips, and made baskets and such for craft shows. Never made a dime, but he enjoyed it for almost 10 years.

Maybe Ryobi made two models? I could check the model number if you like.

Rick

Edit: Mine is model BS 50N. I found one picture of it on an auction website. Bing it if you would like to see. Apparently they are pretty rare.

[jack forsberg]

got it clean and change the bearings after all. well 3 out of 4 all but the big 307 roller bearing that was open and in great shape. cleaned and repacked that one. the other were shielded that i replace with sealed SKF from NTN. , Replaced the thrust bearing but keep it shielded so it will run cooler and got an extra one as a spare

The side guild were made of some plastic most likely a phenolic resin . I made new ones in bearing bronzes that i think are better ,

still have to rig a motor and switch gear and make it mobile.

so far

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a007_zps3dcc5175.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a007_zps3dcc5175.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a001_zps1188abc6.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a001_zps1188abc6.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a002_zpsd0f5cab3.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a002_zpsd0f5cab3.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a006_zps82276dfb.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a006_zps82276dfb.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a005_zps2b877172.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a005_zps2b877172.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a004_zps61fe6c30.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a004_zps61fe6c30.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a003_zpsc7651bd4.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a003_zpsc7651bd4.jpg.html)

[jack forsberg]

got it clean and change the bearing after all. well 3 out of 4 all but the big 307 roller bearing that was open and in great shape. cleaned and repacked that one. the other were shielded that i replace with sealed SKF from NTN. , Replaced the thrust bearing but keep it shielded so it will run cooler and got an extra one as a spare

The side guild were made of some plastic most likely a phenolic resin . I made new one in bearing bronzes that i think are better ,

still have to rig a motor and switch gear and make it mobile.

so far

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a007_zps3dcc5175.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a007_zps3dcc5175.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a001_zps1188abc6.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a001_zps1188abc6.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a002_zpsd0f5cab3.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a002_zpsd0f5cab3.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a006_zps82276dfb.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a006_zps82276dfb.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a005_zps2b877172.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a005_zps2b877172.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a004_zps61fe6c30.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a004_zps61fe6c30.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/hitichib600a003_zpsc7651bd4.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/hitichib600a003_zpsc7651bd4.jpg.html)

[jack forsberg]

Hit a snag. the control transformer was no good. i powered it up anyway to see it run. love it.


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/600001_zps4fb7b847.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/600001_zps4fb7b847.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/600002_zps756d0f16.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/600002_zps756d0f16.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/600004_zpsa5b35b3a.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/600004_zpsa5b35b3a.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/600003_zps5c9c6224.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/600003_zps5c9c6224.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/600005_zps7c4e7052.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/600005_zps7c4e7052.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/600006_zps665d24a6.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/600006_zps665d24a6.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/600007_zps5b46e835.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/600007_zps5b46e835.jpg.html)

still need heaters too
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/600008_zpsdb874d24.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/600008_zpsdb874d24.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/600009_zpsee2dcbb1.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/600009_zpsee2dcbb1.jpg.html)

[jack forsberg]

test cut

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP-eDA51Nhk&feature=youtu.be

[Loren Woirhaye]

A couple of queries, Jack. I have the same model saw.

1. Doesn't that power feed go too fast?

2. What's that green machine in the background?

[jack forsberg]

A couple of queries, Jack. I have the same model saw.

1. Doesn't that power feed go too fast?

2. What's that green machine in the background?


Loren

the feeder goes from 0 to 45 fpm i was just showing off how the 5HP drive motor i put on works.

the green machine in the back? might be the Stenner or Maka Mortiser?

[Loren Woirhaye]

Oh I see, you have the power head removed. I thought maybe it was a router contraption at first.

[Phil Thien]

Hi Phil,

I am saying it will only take 6" high stock. Power seems fine, the few test cuts I have made. Dad used it to slice 2x4's into 1/8" thick strips, and made baskets and such for craft shows. Never made a dime, but he enjoyed it for almost 10 years.

Maybe Ryobi made two models? I could check the model number if you like.

Rick

Edit: Mine is model BS 50N. I found one picture of it on an auction website. Bing it if you would like to see. Apparently they are pretty rare.

I was wrong (again). I didn't realize, I guess, that the saws only go to 6". I found a website where they said 7". But the difference is splitting hairs.

Come to think of it, how high with the Hitachi in this thread go?

[Kyle VanMeter]

I used a similar Hitachi resaw when I was still in college, a CB-75F I believe.

I think it only had a 3HP motor on it, and I always felt like it needed a little more pushing it. I bet you will be glad you went with a 5HP motor.

I was never a big fan of how low the saw set to the ground. It was not very comfortable to use, especially since I am pretty tall. I would have liked to build a stand for it, but I never seemed to have the extra time when I was in that shop. How much height does your stand get you?

Kyle VanMeter

[John Gulick]

Jack,

Nice restoration. A couple questions: 4 years later how is the B 600 running? what changes would you have made?

I recently found what looks like a near new B 600 in an online auction, not running. My thought is very similar to what you have done, 5hp motor. Would you recommend a 1750 or 1050 rpm motor? Someone out there must know the correct ft/min of blade travel.