Shop Garage - 60 amps

[Randy Gazda]

I am in the process of buying a house. The garage is detached and brand new with no electric power. The current owner has a 60 amp breaker that he was going to use for the garage Is that enough for should I set up and buy 100 amp breaker to run power to the garage?

[Rich Enders]

Randy,

There are lots of folks who will chime in here, but you will have to provide everyone more details. 60 amps is probably too low, but might work depending...

-Will you be the only one using the woodworking equipment? If so what is your largest single draw?

-What kind of draw for dust collection?

-What draw for lighting?

-Will you heat the garage? Will that require power?

-Probably not an issue, but what about A/C?

[Dick Mahany]

I have a 60A sub panel in a 3 car, 600 ft shop. I typically run a 3 hp cyclone, an overhead air filter and usually use only 1 or two 3hp tools in addition at the same time. For lighting I have 8 overhead double fixtures with 4ft T8 tubes. I do not use a/c or electric heat. I have never had a problem with this setup, but the previous advise and questions are definitely for consideration.

While 60a may be plenty, if it were me, since the wiring is not yet in place to the garage, I'd upsize it with the 100a if your service will allow, as this hobby has a way of growing to bigger equipment and motors :rolleyes:

[Mike Cutler]

If you're starting from zero, and all you have is that 60 amp breaker, then I would install a 100 amp sub panel if at all possible.
If the sub panel and the wiring are already in place, the decision was made for you.
I only have 30 amps to the garage, and that's insufficient in my opinion.

[Randy Gazda]

I have a 60A sub panel in a 3 car, 600 ft shop. I typically run a 3 hp cyclone, an overhead air filter and usually use only 1 or two 3hp tools in addition at the same time. For lighting I have 8 overhead double fixtures with 4ft T8 tubes. I do not use a/c or electric heat. I have never had a problem with this setup, but the previous advise and questions are definitely for consideration.

While 60a may be plenty, if it were me, since the wiring is not yet in place to the garage, I'd upsize it with the 100a if your service will allow, as this hobby has a way of growing to bigger equipment and motors :rolleyes:
Can I just use big enough wire and 60 amp breaker for now and if needed in the future just upgrade the breaker? I am no electrician as you can probably tell. I currently have all 110 tools, tablesaw is 1.5hp Craftsman hybrid saw, 13" Dewalt Planer, 18" Delta wide belt sander. Dust collector is 1.5hp Delta with upgraded pleated filter. Thanks for the advice.

[Mike Cutler]

Can I just use big enough wire and 60 amp breaker for now and if needed in the future just upgrade the breaker? I am no electrician as you can probably tell. I currently have all 110 tools, tablesaw is 1.5hp Craftsman hybrid saw, 13" Dewalt Planer, 18" Delta wide belt sander. Dust collector is 1.5hp Delta with upgraded pleated filter. Thanks for the advice.

It can be that simple, but there are considerations that have to be made. Size of wire diameter,and capacity of terminal lug, in wire diameter of that 60 amp breaker. The wire has to be run as if a 100 amp subpanel will be installed at a later date.
The 60amp install will be cheaper than a 100 amp install, but not by much.

[Bruce Wrenn]

My shop, detached building of about 800 sq. ft. has a 60 amp feed. I have all the usual wood working suspects ( table saw, miter saw, two band saws, drill press, radial arm saw, air compressor, 15" planer, 6" jointer, dc cyclone, overhead air filter, bench grinder, router table, lights, air conditioner,) plus welders (both MIG, and stick) metal cutting band saw, plus an assortment of angle grinders. Never in the last 33 years have I popped the main feed breaker. Remember that 60 amps at 220 is equal to 120 amps at 110.

[Jason White]

I'm in a rental house and the landlord was kind enough to install a 60-amp sub panel in the garage for me. It's more than enough in terms of amperage. The only problem is that there are fewer slots for breakers than I'd like. I did all my own wiring and was able to install a dedicated 15-amp circuit for the lights, two 20-amp/120 volt circuits for outlets, and two 20-amp/220-volt circuits for my larger machines (one of which is dedicated for my 1-1/2 HP dust collector). I'd like to install a big, portable air conditioner, but I'm one slot short from being able to add another 220-volt circuit for the A/C. In general, though, 60-amps is plenty.

- Jason



I am in the process of buying a house. The garage is detached and brand new with no electric power. The current owner has a 60 amp breaker that he was going to use for the garage Is that enough for should I set up and buy 100 amp breaker to run power to the garage?

[glenn bradley]

I've been running my shop on a sub-panel that has a 50 amp breaker on the main feed. No problems with power ever.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I only have 30 amps to the garage, and that's insufficient in my opinion.
I've got 30 amps to the garage also.
I agree - It's not enough.

With the shop vac, lights and one tool (table saw, router, etc) it's maxed out.

[Jim Neeley]

Background: I once had a shop with a 60a feed and a 60a panel. My recent acquisition (4 car garage, 3 to be shop) has 100A with a tiny panel.

For *my* useage (1 man shop), 60A service is probably enough although if I was going to go to the trouble of running the cable to a new panel (especially if it was buried) I'd install the wiring to support a 100A panel unless the run is long or you enjoy digging (or re-digging) trenches. You can go with 60A, which is probably enough, or go with 100A and know you will never need to address it again. In my scenario the second panel feed wires are only about 10' long. With the incremental cost of the heavier wire a buck or two a foot and the breaker $10-$20 the cost to go 100A over 60A would only be about $20-$40. Your call, a no-brainer to me. Either way...

While the 60A feed may be sufficient, the 60A load centers (breaker panels) I've seen do not contain nearly enough breaker slots for my comfort level. Installing a load center means isolating all of the power to the center, lifting the incoming feed wires and all of the breaker (load) wires, tearing out the panel and replacing it with another. If any of the wires break or are too short for the new panel you've got damage control to perform (install junction box or re-run wire to receptacle).

There are other considerations. If it was done here in Anchorage, you may or may not need a building permit. In this jurisdiction a permit is required if the total value of the upgrade (if it allwere contracted out) exceeds $5,000. Depending on how you do your work and how much wiring you have to do, this may be avoided.

That said, Anchorage still has the issue of the required Electrical permit. Here, if you are making a change to your electrical system beyond adding a single circuit (with wiring), you must get an Electrical Permit which includes drawings, calculations and the fee for their inspector to come out and inspect your work. If you oversize the load center you pay once for the expansion capability but can add circuits in the future as you need them (one at a time)without going through the electrical permitting cycle (as long as you do not need to increase the size of your feed, replace the load center and do not add more than one circuit at a time). .

Additonally, the difference in price in the empty (before breakers) load centers is relatively inexpensive; at the extreme, a 42 circuit 200A load center is <$100 here in Alaska and probably much lower there. While 200A is probably overkill for you, it is my opinion that going oversize (up to as much as twice what you expect to grow into) is pretty cheap insurance (probably $20-$40 extra if you go mid-sized) considering the hassles stated above.

Lastly, the feed size of your load center does not dictate the feed you *must* run; it simply limits the *max* feed size. The load center may be rated higher than the feed. As an extreme example to make the point, (while it'd probably be silly) you *could* use a 60A breaker for feed, with 60A rated wire to the load center, and then use a 200A load center if you really, really wanted that many (extreme number) of breakers.

In synopsis I recommend:

* Determine how much extra it'd cost you to go 100A (over the 60A) feed and decide if it is right for you.
* Oversize your load center (in terms of breaker slot / circuit capacity); adding circuits later is low-cost as long as you have breaker space available.
* Even if you only use 30% of the breaker capacity Day 1, once it's installed, all it "costs" you to have the spare capacity is the larger wall space taken by the mostly empty load center.
* Use Google to check on your local permitting requirements. Here in Anchorage I get good results Googling "Anchorage Electrical Permit" and "Anchorage Building Permit".

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim in Alaska
Professional Electrical Engineer, Alaska

[Allen Grenz]

Jim nailed it.. When I bought my house I had a small 8 space 60amp sub panel in my garage. It was fed from my main load center on the house with a 60amp breaker and appropriate conductor. I then put in a large 150amp panel and completely rewired the building replacing all 15amp outlets and 14ga wire with 12ga and 20s.. put in 4 30amp 220 outlets with 10/3 + ran another un-landed 10-3 to a likely large compressor area and one to the ceiling... The only 15amp/14ga circuits ares 2 separate lighting circuits. I ran the shop like this for over a year... Still fed by the 60amp circuit from the main... Worked out fine till I upgraded the underground line and put a 100amp main breaker at the house load center... ... I have a lot of metal working equipment too and have never tripped the main... 60amp is fine but don't forget all the other wiring.. I would suggest you have at least a 200amp feed to the property if your running 100amps to the garage and are drawing lots of amps....like central air on the home..

[Richard Shaefer]

I have 60A service to my garage and a 100A panel. This is common, your house is the same way. Most modern houses have a 300A panel and service drop that likely tops out at half that. You want the breaker spaces more than the the capacity. My garage in the winter will run a 20A electric heater, a 3 HP dust collector, a cabinet saw, a planer, more lights than you can count, and a chop saw all at the same time with no fuss. Realize that in a home shop, there is a limited number of tools that you can operate at once. I often work with my wife in the shop, so there's always a few tools running at once, but never more than two 'biggies', and even that's rare. It's usually a one big piece of equipment and hand-held tools like sanders.

Work out your worst case base load - i.e., a big heater, your D/C (if you have it) and your lights. Then throw in your next two biggest tools. If you have a big compressor, throw that in, too. they can pop a breaker when they start-up if there's a lot of other things going on.

and just a piece of advice, but run a smaller breaker in the subpanel than in the main panel (but don't oversize the main panel breaker) it sucks to go into the basement if you pop the breaker down there (admitted, I've never had that hapen to me)

[John Huds0n]

I'm in a rental house and the landlord was kind enough to install a 60-amp sub panel in the garage for me. It's more than enough in terms of amperage. The only problem is that there are fewer slots for breakers than I'd like. I did all my own wiring and was able to install a dedicated 15-amp circuit for the lights, two 20-amp/120 volt circuits for outlets, and two 20-amp/220-volt circuits for my larger machines (one of which is dedicated for my 1-1/2 HP dust collector). I'd like to install a big, portable air conditioner, but I'm one slot short from being able to add another 220-volt circuit for the A/C. In general, though, 60-amps is plenty.

- Jason

Have you thought about using two 20 amp breakers that only use a single pole like this one - it may free up another slot for you
270622

[Jim Andrew]

A 100 amp panel is not expensive, and upgrading would cost more than just having a 100 amp service put in now. They sell square D panels at the big boxstores, check them out. If you are worried about the 60 amp panel, sell it on craigslist.

[Robert Delhommer Sr]

My 20' x 20' shop is fed with a 60amp 240 volt service and I get by with no problem. But since all you have is the breaker for the garage I would replace the breaker with a 100 amp and run wire and sub panel for 100 amps. You can never have too much power. :)

[Adrian Anguiano]

I currently use a 100 amp panel, but its only being fed by a 70amp breaker. So you get tons of spaces in the 100 amp panel, but I get my find with 70 or 60 amps, so the switch in the 100amp panel is just a disconnect switch.

If you will be the only person working, and at max you will have lights, dust collector, overhead dust, compressor, and a tool on, then you will be find.