Monster Lathe Update

[David DeCristoforo]

A while back, I posted some updates on the "Norman" custom built concrete bowl lathe I acquired. The last chapter concluded with the cobbling together of a "Rube Goldberg" belt tensioning mechanism in an attempt to overcome the starting torque limitations of the Dynamotor. But the whole thing ended up being so cumbersome and difficult to use that I ended up pretty much sidelining the whole project. I have been pretty busy with other concerns with little time for turning but I have really been wanting to get this thing running properly. The other day I came across the "motivation", A 3hp 3ph Baldor continuous duty motor for seventy five bucks. Perfect for the "Monster"! After I picked up the motor, I bit the bullet and ordered a TECO FM50 VFD. I also had to order a new drive pulley because the motor has a 1 1/8" shaft. As soon as those things arrive, I'll get everything wired up. I have seen some references to incorporating a switch but I'm not clear on that part. Anyone who is can feel free to chime in! In the meantime, I'm joyously removing the claptrap belt tensioning rig and getting the "new" motor mounted.

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Once this is set up, what with the Vicmark tool rest I posted pics of in the last update, this thing should be ready for some serious work!

[neil mackay]

TECO FM50 VFD you should be able to retro fit a corded remote to control speed, stop and start, not sure about reverse. But if its possible all the info will be in your manual. For the speed control you will need something like a 100k pot with around ten turns this will give good fine adjustment on speed control. If didnt get a manual I have found link with it http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/TECO-FM50-Manual.pdf its too big to post here 2.66mb

[Josh Bowman]

David, congrads on the motor. The Teco should come out of the box programmed to work with the buttons on it's on box. By pressing a combination of those buttons you can access the programing that will let you make it do lots of stuff. I.E. how fast it speeds and slows down, top and bottom speeds, if it has remote switches and about 100 other things. Some of which have nothing to do with turning. Good luck with it. I think you'll really like it

[Roger Chandler]

Super good, David! I really hope you can get this to work up to its potential........so that you can work up to yours! This sounds like a great combo for the power you need. Sorry I can't help with the switch issues..........I have not taken the time to educate myself in the area of vfd's.......have not had a need as of yet.

Good luck on your rebuild..........sounds like it is a workable deal! Speaking of deal...........man, for a Baldor motor........you didn't get a deal, you got a steal!

[Richard Bell CA]

David:

I installed a TECO FM50 on a lathe I rebuilt last year. You can set it up for remote on/off, fwd/rev, and speed control. You will need to tailor some of the settings for your application, but the programming is pretty straightforward. I live about an hour east of you, you are welcome to come by and check it out.

Richard

[David DeCristoforo]

"For the speed control you will need something like a 100k pot..."

Are you saying that speed control cannot be accomplished from the VFD itself? The diagram in the manual shows a connection point for a "potentiometer". Is that the "100k pot" you are referring to? I'm pretty much limited to basic electrical knowledge here so II'm kinda "flying by the seat of my pants" here!

PS Thanx for the link...

"...you got a steal!..."

Agreed!

[Josh Bowman]

David there is a low voltage terminal block on the vfd that allows the pot, fwd/rev, remote switch etc. There is also a heavy terminal block for the line in and motor out. I goofed up with mine and tried to use 12 gauge wire on the low voltage (control) block. That was way too heavy!! Try 16 or lighter wire there. Those vfd's are made to control machines in factories where computers tell them what to do. That's also why you'll see so many programming options. But as I said before, the only programming you'll fool with is to tell it that it has a remote pot and switches. The thing will do most lathe stuff right out of the box. You can actually control the vfd functions with the built in buttons on the box. Just not certain if they hold up over years of use and most vfd boxes aren't installed in a convenient place. But it's good enough for testing.

[David DeCristoforo]

So I could have a "pot" for speed control, an on/off switch and a forward/reverse switch, all remote wired? I am wondering if there is a "for dummies" illustrated "how to" on setting this up anywhere? I know lots of guys have done this so there might be some eaisy to understand guide somewhere.... Could someone recommend specific devices for the "pot, the F/R switch and the on/off switch? Can the F/R and "on off" switches be one unit? It would be nice to mount the VFD somewhere and have the switches and speed controller mounted where the on off switch is currently located on the lathe...

[Nate Davey]

Congrats David, quality motor with some serious power behind it. You may not want to get a catch with that, might flip you over the top of the lathe ;)

[Josh Bowman]

David, you'll have no problems. The instructions are pretty good. Just REMEMBER the instructions show ALL the options and aren't written for just a wood turning lathe. But there are pictures of the setup. You need to pick up from Radio Shack 271-1715 10 ohm pot, and 275-0654 SPDT (single pole double throw) switch. At least that's what I used on my 1 HP TECO VFD. I can email pictures of my setup if you need them. But again, as it comes out of the box, it will run the motor at 5 hz (minimum speed), you'll have to program it to allow it to go to 60 hz (full speed) or above. Now your motor will have to be wired according to it's name plate to allow for the 3 phase, it may already be setup ok. My NEW motor was not and I found it very hard to read the wire numbers, but got through it. The name plate on the motor will show how to configure the wires. Hopefully you're motor was "cut" from a working application and will have only 3 wires leaving the terminal box. If the unit runs backwards, you can just swap any one of the 3 phase motor wires to correct this. If you have problems with the unit tripping (shutting down) at very low speeds (frequencies), PM me and I'll show you the programming fix. Without going into too much detail, I found my unit was programmed to maintain frequency + or - not much, this can make the current flow go real high at low speeds, but since you're not making rocket parts, it can be fixed.

[David DeCristoforo]

The wiring on the motor side is no problem. I'm pretty much OK with that part. It's the L.V. side I'm not very knowledgeable about. The difference between "electricals" which I understand and and "electronics" which I don't. Thanx for the recommendations on the devices. I was looking at much heavier stuff. I'm getting a better picture of how this will go together. I'd love to see pics of your setup (and any others as well). PM sent...

PS Is it possible to use a 3 position switch for forward/reverse and on/off combined?

[David DeCristoforo]

Got some pics from Josh. All looks pretty "do-able". The motor is mounted so it's just waiting for the VFD now...

[Dick Strauss]

David,
I have separate for/off/rev and start/stop buttons so that both have to be turned to the right position before the lathe starts. It is easier to bit a big button when you need the lathe off now!

[Josh Bowman]

David,
After church, I took the time to download your manual. Looks to me that terminals 3/4/5 are for your foward and reverse remote switch, the switches common being wired to 5. Also study some over the "F" codes on page 36 of the manual. As in the manual on page 38 the remote switch will only work if "F 10" is set to 1. Don't let this be confusing, to change an "F" code. Just play with the display on the module and use page 35's flowchart. Example to change "F10" to 1. PRESS DSP-FUN then use the UP or DOWN arrow keys until "F10" is displayed. PRESS the DATA-ENT button to open the "F10" functions. Use the UP or DOWN arrow keys until 1 is displayed. Then PRESS again the DATA-ENT button to save the new value. When done PRESS the DSP-FUN button to return to the frequency display. That's really all there is to it. Kind of like setting the clock in a car.


By the way, the frequency display of 60 hz will have the motor running a full name plate speed. You can actually make the motor run faster than name plate. Havn't got a clue if it would hurt the motor, but just saying.


Lastly there is a little DIP switch mounted inside the front of the unit. It's called "SW1" page 20 of the manual. I THINK it should be down. It has to do with how the unit sees external signals controlling it. REMEMBER if this thing was being used to put "wobbleing pins on wiggling units" in a factory, most likely a computer would be controling this, so you can make it work off of a controller that either varies voltage of amps to signal a change. Try one way then the other or call the factory. Through ignorance, I used mine out of the box and didn't change it. I think I later tinkered with it but saw no difference, but I can't remember.


Again, David, I'm NOT an expert on these (I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express though), I just installed one simular to yours and tinkered alot with it. Things I remember causing me problems but were fixed by F codes changes. The unit tripped at low speeds. The motor made a God awful knocking noise. The unit when put in reverse spun up so quick, it would spin a chuck off the spindle.


All in all for the money, the TECO seems pretty nice. We'll see how they hold up over time. Since they are expensive, I added a modification to my lathes, since I'm too lazy to bend over and unplug them. I put a disconnect switch on the power into the 120 volt (TECO) metal lathe and on the PM3520 (DELTA) wood lathe.


Keep me updated to the progress. I really think that lathe is going to be a good one.

[Mike Cruz]

DD, sorry, I haven't been able to read all the replies, but you CAN access all the functions through the VFD itself, but would be a pain in the butt. While the VFD (I've to a couple of TECOs and another odd named one) can do a million things, the only ones you'll need constant use of is the FWD/REV, ON/OFF, and SPEED CONTROLL. All of these can be put easily in a remote box or on mounted switches. One of the nice functions of the VFD is that you can program it to start up at a designated time frame (1, 3, 5, or 10 seconds to reach full speed) and stopping...as a brake (same times), so that you don't have abrupt starts or have to wait forever for it to wind down. I believe I have mine set up for 3 second start and stop/brake...but you don't need to constantly adjust those, so, it is a set it and forget it type of thing.

I'd be happy to explain how to do it all to you, but I'm quite inept at this sort of thing, and was fortunate enough to have a fellow Creeker who lives about an hour away from me that was willing to come over and hook them all up for me (Thanks a million, Steve!!!!!!).

Best of luck and can't wait for your Monster to be up and running!

[Rick Markham]

:D That's more like it! Congrats David! I hope it goes together smoothly, and turns like a dream!

[Dave Mueller]

David,
Attached is a picture of the control box I made for my Vicmarc about three years ago. It is attached to a TECO FM50 just like yours. This system has been bulletproof and works like a dream. The bottom on/off switch is a twist to release (start) and push to stop. The middle switch is a FWD/REV and the top is the 10K pot to control the speed (yes, the pot should be 10Kohm). I reprogrammed the controller to go from 2 HZ to 90HZ, which gives me about 60 - 2700 RPM on an 1800 rpm motor with a 1:1 pulley setup, so I have never had to change my belt to another pulley ratio in the three years I have used it. I used CAT 5 cable (network cable) to wire the box to the controller.

All of the parts came from www.factorymation.com. The links to the parts are:
10K Pot (designed for the FM50) - http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_Accessories/FM-POT6.html
Enclosure - http://www.factorymation.com/Products/DSE_Plastic_Pushbutton_Enclosures/DS-PCG-0818-1B3.html
Start/Stop knob - http://www.factorymation.com/Products/22mm_Mushroom_Operators_Non-Illuminated/CSW-BEG.html
Fwd/Rev knob - http://www.factorymation.com/Products/22mm_Knob/CSW-CK2F45.html

Note that the knobs are the operators only and require a separate microswitch for the contacts, which can also be ordered at Factorymation. This is normal for 22 mm switches. I believe both are normally open microswitches.

If you are interested in more info, send me a PM and I'll respond with the wiring diagram and five programming changes needed for the FM50. I also have the graphics file for the label. This is really quite simple and worked first try for me.

Dave
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[Josh Bowman]

David, there's your opportunity. Get Dave's F codes and in 5 minutes after installation, you'll be up and going!

[David DeCristoforo]

Great info, very speciific and most helpful. But you lost me at "microswitches"! I looked at the links and there is mention of "contacts" being sold separately (Why does this make me think of GI Joe toys?) Is that what you are talking about? Anyway I sent you a PM. I would love to see the diagrams, etc.


Thanx Again...

[David DeCristoforo]

Oh... and "one more question". Does the FM50 have any kind of memory for saving settings? Or is it like one of those devices that loses it's mind if deprived of power and defaults to the factory settings? I would like to incorporate a main shutoff switch between the outlet and the VFD but I would not want to have to reprogram it every time I go to use it!

[Trevor Howard]

The microswitch Dave is referencing I believe is shown in this link, http://www.factorymation.com/Products/22mm_Contact_Blocks/BCA10-CSW.html
called a contact Block, ideally you should have 2 Normally open Blocks, 1 for Forward and 1 for Reverse. The Stop usually goes through a Normally closed contact block, which will open when the Stop button is pressed.

Also most VFD's do not lose there settings on loss of power. The majority I have worked with need you to change a parameter for it to go to Factory Defaults.

Good Luck David.

[James Boster]

None of my Teco FM50's loose anyting when shut down. I keep a dis-connect switch before them so they dont stay powered up all the time. Settings will stay after programed. On my lathe I bought the next grade of vfd from factorymation. I belive it is a 7300 series. It allows you to pull the small controller out move to a remote location with an extension cable provided as an option. I had to go to it because it's abover 3hp (10 actually!) I have about 7 of the FM 50's and love them.

[john taliaferro]

Mine had a caution about not installing a switch between vfd and motor . Take the chuck off unless your really good at catching 8 lb going 1000 rpm . I use 20 sec soft start it gives you a few sec to hit the stop when you forget to turn it down .

[Mike Cruz]

John, so your VFD won't let you use any sort of remote switches? Or switches just need to be connected straight to the VFD? I'm not sure why you'd put a switch "between" the VFD and the motor anyway... Even your ESTOP would go to the VFD.

Not sure what you mean about taking the chuck off... Why would it fly off the lathe? Unless maybe you turn the lathe on reverse accidentally. But, even then, without anything in the chuck, if it is on tight, it won't just spin off...

Sorry, I'm not trying to bash you. I'm just not clear on what you were trying to say.

20 seconds for the start seems WAY too long. If you can't figure out that you've got the speed up too high within 5, you simply aren't paying attention!

[David DeCristoforo]

I'm looking for a switch to put between the outlet and the VFD to use as a main power switch. Seems simple...no? A basic 2 position rotary switch that will handle 220v 15a. I know I have bought such things in the past but now everyone says "go online" and I cannot, for the life of me, find one! Anyone?

PS The VFD is arriving today...

[Josh Bowman]

David, I Ebayed a couple, but for my 220 volt, I wanted to disconnect the 2 hots and the ground so found a 3 phase used one from a friend. But if just the 2 hot wires are good for you, here's a good one on the Bay: Disconnect Switch (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SQUARE-D-FUSIBLE-SAFETY-SWITCH-DISCONNECT-D98251-30A-250V-USED-/251333173996?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a849fe2ec)
The best place to get one of these, is from an electrician. They often upgrade stuff and keep the stuff they take out. You can easily see if it has problems, after all it's just a knife switch. I did put some contract grease on the old one, I got and it worked like new.
Can't wait to see the concrete monster up and running. Good luck.

[David DeCristoforo]

ARRG!!! I'm looking for a switch that I can mount on the machine... maybe something a bit more "refined" than that... That's what the guy at the BORG showed me. I bought a switch for my Omga chopsaw years ago, a simple on/off 220v rotary switch in a small grey box maybe 4" square. I don't know why I can't find one now... weird!

[Dave Mueller]

Just mount a Double Pole Single Throw 220 volt wall switch in metal a box on the lathe. Every bigbox store has one. No need to switch the ground, in fact it's best to not do so.