Anyone else here not a huge fan of woodcraft?

[Chris Hachet]

I shop once in awhile at my local store, nothing at all wrong with them, but lately have begun to buy everything I need from Lee Valley, as the product, pricing, and service is much, much better. Not anything against the local woodcraft, but I find Lee Valley to be a better deal almost every time. Also, in Columbus we have Woodwerks Supply which gives absolutely fantastic service. What is everyone else's experience?

[Mike Henderson]

I've had very good experiences at my local Woodcraft. My local Rockler also gives good service. And with both of them, I get the item immediately. LV does a good job but their shipping is horribly slow (UPS ground). It takes forever to get anything from them, or I have to pay for expedited shipping. I wish LV would go to USPS priority mail.

Both my local Woodcraft and Rockler have similar return policies to LV - maybe not as generous but pretty close.

Mike

[David Weaver]

Woodcraft corporate (internet) has always provided everything I've bought just fine, shipped fast, packed well, etc. The store that we had locally was sort of uninspiring, but it closed.

I generally don't shop there (online) much anymore because either they don't carry the things I was buying there any longer, or because anything they have that isn't theirs exclusively is usually found for less elsewhere. Japan woodworker was sort of the same story, though they did have a few gems at one time (esp the cheap funjii planes), but most of that disappeared and it was sort of fitting that Woodcraft purchased their operation because the prices in both places are similar.

That seems unnecessarily harsh to me to say that, because I have had contact with folks at corporate and found them to be honest and genuine, it's just my old german (high dutch, PA dutchy, whatever you want to call it) sense that makes me too stingy - and I can't get over that stinginess - I cringe when I look through the catalogs. But for them to have stingy-man-approved prices and support a brick and mortar franchise system would be a good way to go out of business and fast.

Rockler is literally up the street from me, and I have trouble finding much there, either - other than maybe screws and glue, and even then, their prices are set so that they still do OK after you use a coupon. If you don't have a coupon, forget about it. There are things they have there that are cheaper at HD up the hill even after a 20% coupon is applied, and that's bad, as HD doesn't generally give anything away.

[Eric DeSilva]

I've had no issues with buying on-line from Woodcraft, and the folks running the local (well, quasi-local) store seem like upstanding, knowledgeable guys. I'm guessing the experiences will be mixed because I think the quality of your experience is really going to depend on the folks running your local shop--I think it is a franchise, so the local stores probably have significantly different character.

[Joe Tilson]

I don't know how you folks feel about Mcfeely's, but they have some really quality screws as well as some tools. They ship really well and package well too. WC, Lowes, and HD have jumped on the price increase thing and put them selves out of my price range plus they only stock for the upper class woodworker or Joe homeowner. LV is a class act with quality and fairly good at pricing too. Rockler does a good job as well.

[george wilson]

David,you certainly are not stingy!!

My complaint about Woodcraft is some of the cheap stuff they have been selling for years. They have sold junky Chinese needle files forever,long before the good USA makers like Nicholson went bad. There are also other not so good products that I can't recall right now.

WARNING!!!! NEVER BUY those ceramic coated stainless steel kitchen knife unhandled kitchen knives they sell. The ceramic chips off the cutting edges on ALL of them,Woodcraft or not. And I certainly do not want to be swallowing razor sharp chips of ceramic that will never degenerate inside your digestive tract. The ceramic coating is VERY thin,and it does not adhere to the stainless steel blade inside. Those knives ought to be BANNED. All of them.

Woodcraft's WHITE,100% ceramic blades(with no handles) are quite a good buy,. IIRC,I bought one for $25.00 or so. It was literally shaving sharp,and has lasted as well as more expensive ceramic knives. If you are careful to examine the cutting edges,even Harbor Freight ceramic knives with rubber handles(Abt. $10.00) are quite good. Their problem is: They most often do not sharpen the blades for the last 1 1/2" near the tip. Examine them carefully. It is hard to see if the edges meet near the tips,as the blades are white. I took several out of their boxes and bought the best ones I could find. I can sharpen ceramic knives,though not as sharp as their factory grinds. My finest available diamond wheel is 1200 grit,but I have a 3000 grit wheel I need to modify to fit my grinder. However,the 1200 grit delivers a knife sharp enough to easily slice through a tomato skin,and I'm satisfied with it.

Needless to say,lumber at Woodcraft is VERY expensive. We used to have a decent lumber dealer in Richmond,but they are long gone. I asked the owner of the store,who I know,why the wood cost more than the machines. He just laughed and said it was true.

[James Conrad]

Lie-Nielsen = Filson
Lee Valley = LL Bean
Woodcraft = Sears

[David Weaver]

I don't know how you folks feel about Mcfeely's, but they have some really quality screws as well as some tools. They ship really well and package well too. WC, Lowes, and HD have jumped on the price increase thing and put them selves out of my price range plus they only stock for the upper class woodworker or Joe homeowner. LV is a class act with quality and fairly good at pricing too. Rockler does a good job as well.

McFeely's seems very similar to JWW and Woodcraft to me. Their screws used to be something unusual, made in the USA and better than almost anything I could find locally. That's not the case any longer because rockler is around, and the screws are mostly chinese and taiwanese at McFeely's now, and they sell most other catalog items at retail. I haven't shopped with them for years, but back when they had something unique, they were the only place I went for screws.

They still use the picture of the mcfeely guy, whoever that is, on the web page, but they were bought by grainger, which is an OK place to go if you have a corporate account, but is a super high priced place to go if you're buying low volume and have time to shop around.

(the shift to imported goods and "same as everyone else has" goods - those being plastic jigs, festool, etc, happened before grainger bought them, though).

I am critical of retailers about price and what's offered a lot of the time because I do spend a lot of money on tool stuff, but aside from my little sharpening stone problem (even those, I try to buy right) I try to make my purchases money in suspense instead of dispensing with a low % ever to be recovered.

[Judson Green]

Not that I dislike Woodcraft (internet or the store) but just don't even think to shop there. I did about 2 or 3 months ago stop in at the local (~30 mins away) store and checked it out. Left without buying anything, not that I was looking to do so, and figured I really don't need to go back. Really its not that I have something against them its just that I've found other places to get the kind of stuff they sell. Certainly won't buy wood there. Probably should have checked out their clearance items little better I think they had a couple clamps I could use.

I do think its cool that they offer some classes. And the one in Milwaukee has a "living room" for hanging out and chating.

You guys ever use custom service hardware? No affiliation. Good place for oh-hum items PVA glue, screws, drawer slides, lights

[Chris Griggs]

I think "not a huge fan" describes it pretty well. I don't dislike them at all. I enjoy having a local store near by and they do have very good service both in store and when ordering. There's just not much I want from there, and more often then not I feel like I can get better things for less money from places other than Woodcraft. For instance, price out a Dozuki from WC and then compare it to what you can get it for from Stu, or LV, or Craftsman Studio. I just feel like I get more for my money at other places. I do occasionally get things from WC and they do carry some good stuff (I got my Iwasaki file there for instances and really like my WR No. 6), but in general it's a place where I tend to buy only when things go on sale.

[Mel Fulks]

George, Lumber Sales,in Richmond is still good . Not a lot of exotics beyond mahogany ,but that is good there.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

My local WoodCraft store is 110 miles away in Spokane, WA. The next closest one is 260 miles away in Boise, ID. Both stores are locally owned and have treated me well. The owners of the Spokane store personally delivered my PM3520B. The husband of the pair helped me and 2 other guys roll it on a pallet jack from my carport to the shop while moving sheets of plywood across the lawn. I bought my lathe, my drill press, GI mortiser and 2 Jet air filtration machines there.

In the remote area where I live, WC is the nearest place where I can put my hands on a tool and drool on it before I buy it. While in town there are a couple "authorized dealers" for some woodworking tool companies, they don't stock tools.

I also buy from Rockler, Lee-Valley, etc. but Wood Craft has its place in the market.

[Jim Koepke]

Being locally owned stores has benefits and problems.

The closest to me is about 60 miles away in Portland. My experience with one of the people there was pleasant, with another, not so pleasant.

Mostly for me it is just "window shopping" unless there is some wood or other consumable at a good price.

jtk

[Pedro Reyes]

I like my woodcraft, but for the most part I buy from them is to make sure they stay in business, so I never buy online, I go there and have it ordered (save on shipping to). Occasionally I go there because I need it ASAP, and at that point I don;t mind paying a bit more. If we all just e-commerce then the local stores won't be there when you need them in a pinch, not to mention the whole buy local mentality.

For this same reason I occasionally buy at Barnes & Noble.

/p

[Tony Zaffuto]

I prefer to be an informed consumer. If I can't understand the web or catalog blurbs about what I'm looking at, I'll telephone the company. If customer service (or whoever) can't answer my questions, I shop elsewhere. Companies at the top of their game include LV, Highland, LN, Craftsmen Studio. Most of the others seem to have grown too large to understand the products they sell.

[george wilson]

I LIKE the people in the Woodcraft store. I just don't like some of the cheap products they sell. I even bought a SawStop from them,as well as a 18" Jet bandsaw(Which I later GAVE AWAY to the Millwork Shop in the museum.) Silly thing was VERY flexible unless all 4 feet were tight against the floor. If I leaned on the upper housing a LITTLE,the blade would come 1/4" out of the guides. The guides were those obnoxious European type,where it is a HUGE pain to try to lubricate the lower guide bearings. Plus,they just seemed in my way all the time. I wasted more money on Carter bearings and still just could not do the quality of work I could do with the old,but excellent 20" Delta we had for many years.

But,these things are not Woodcraft's fault.They have to sell what they can get. And,if they bought higher end machinery,likely no one could afford it.

[Adrian Ponik]

I rather like my local Woodcraft. They have quite a bit of stuff and are super nice (at least my store is). Only local place I know of to get General Finishes, sometimes they have decent sales (got some Bessey 3/4inch H pipe clamps for $12 each). You just have to know what you're looking for and know what a reasonable price is. Will I ever buy a large amount of lumber there for a project? No, but if I want some purpleheart or zebrawood for a small accent I probably would. It's just like anything else, you have to know it's strengths and use them. For me, they are a decent source for finishing products, some sale items, and small quantities of exotic wood species. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

[David Weaver]

If more of our stores were like Ken's (when a store delivers something for you, it's pretty convincing), we'd probably have better opinions. I guess that's the nature of the franchise type system.

There is a local super-pro saw shop here (as in, they specialize in stuff that production places would use), but they do have some user grade tools. They're not always the very cheapest, but they're usually competitive, and sometimes they have stuff cheaper than you can get it anywhere else if they decide they want to unload it. Back in about 2008 maybe, I went to them and bought an 18 inch jet BS when jet finally put cast iron wheels and trunnions their saws, and they had it $150 cheaper than amazon because they had two and only wanted to have one on the floor. It almost fit into the vehicle I had that day, and when it didn't, without asking, the owner whipped his truck around and helped us load it, followed us back to my house and helped us unload it.

Our rockler floor is friendly and courteous, it's just gotten harder to find anything good there in the last 5 years as they have really gone head over heels with the plastic jig type stuff and small turning bits (precut blanks, pen kits, etc) and even the latter is often double the price it would be on ebay. Their lumber is high (but not woodcraft high) and I have trouble finding much in the selection, though they get in pallets of hardwoods sometimes, it's usually stuff that's s3s and not very good color. Just the way it is, I guess.

[Paul McGaha]

We have a good local Woodcraft in Leesburg, VA. The staff is pleasant and knowledgeable.

The store seems to be well stocked. I've found their pricing can be beaten pretty easily but the store is handy to have around. I support the store as much as I can.

There's a Rockler store (and Powermatic/Jet Service Center) about 50 miles from me in Winchester, VA. Really nice people there too.

PHM

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I like our local W/C. They are excellent people. I have to add that we don't have a LV or Rockler, so they are all we got. I actually feel sorry for you folks that have a LV or Rockler nearby. The W/C sucks a lot of money out of my wallet already. I'd be really broke if there were a LV and Rockler nearby. :)

[David Weaver]

I wish there were an LV store nearby. I'm sure we could find some empty retail space north of Pittsburgh. How about it Rob? Swing by the local store, stop downtown, put on a Pens jersey and catch a game with Tony Z?

[Tony Shea]

I've personally never bought anything from them online and the closest store is almost 4hrs away. My closest Rockler is 3.5hrs away. Yes I do live in the sticks, happily at that. I do wish there were more woodworking stores locally though. I have been in the Rockler once and don't hate the store but typically never walk out with much of anything, prices are staggering. But if I need a small special piece of wood real quick I may be willing to pay their price if that option was existent. Unfortunately I am stuck with the internet for those odd pieces or wood, or Craiglist to find that special wood hoarder. I have come across 2 on Craigslist that I keep in my back pocket.

I can't complain too much as Lie Nielsen is about 1.5hrs from me, they see a lot of my salary for the year. I'm not a big fan of big corporations but some options in this area would be a welcome sight. Sorry for being a little off topic.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I wish there were an LV store nearby. I'm sure we could find some empty retail space north of Pittsburgh. How about it Rob? Swing by the local store, stop downtown, put on a Pens jersey and catch a game with Tony Z?

We've had standing invitations for years for Rob to come to Pittsburgh and me to go to Ottawa. I think a store somewhere in NW PA would be the best location for the first LV store in the states.

[Jack Curtis]

I rather like my local Woodcraft. They have quite a bit of stuff and are super nice (at least my store is). Only local place I know of to get General Finishes, sometimes they have decent sales (got some Bessey 3/4inch H pipe clamps for $12 each). You just have to know what you're looking for and know what a reasonable price is. Will I ever buy a large amount of lumber there for a project? No, but if I want some purpleheart or zebrawood for a small accent I probably would. It's just like anything else, you have to know it's strengths and use them. For me, they are a decent source for finishing products, some sale items, and small quantities of exotic wood species. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

Same here, plus they're only a long walk from home, maybe a bit over a mile. The main stuff I really like are the finishing supplies, lots of dyes, too. Handy to not have to ship that stuff.

[Jim Matthews]

The Woodcraft franchise model is unsustainable - the home office demands a maintenance fee and sells direct to the same customers.
It's impossible to stay open when your top tier of management is skimming sales.

There's one open now, near Boston - but I think it's mainly for Pen turners and those in a pinch for finer hardware.
I give it 18 months, at the outside. There's better selection from purveyors like Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen.

Given that their hardwood selection is typically 20 -30% higher than a quality lumberyard, there's little reason
for me to darken their door.

[Norb Schmidt]

We're very fortunate to have a great Woodcraft in Atlanta. The owner is passionate about woodworking in general, as well as promoting period and high quality hand tools. He's got it all, from Festool, Sawstop, etc. to Lie Nielsen and Chris Vesper tools. He even stocks Patrick Edwards Old Brown Glue! Great classes, great classroom, top notch employees and typically well inventoried. No complaints here.

[Mike Holbrook]

I don't know Norb I think Jim may have his finger on a problem within Woodcraft management. Woodcraft Atlanta does have some good people and even some good tools but every time I have needed help at a managerial level I have had problems. I bought a Laguna L14-SUV from them and found the experience less than it should have been.

I almost ordered the saw from Laguna because they offered a better deal, just on their web site. It was like pulling teeth to get someone in Woodcraft management to just sort of honor what Laguna says they do on the web site. Then they nocked a part off the saw wheeling it out to the loading dock or putting it in my truck one. The part was on in the store but gone when I took it off my truck. The saw was not usable without the part. They fritzed around with the problem for over a week until I started asking about just returning the saw. Then they had the wrong part shipped to me. I called Laguna and got it worked out myself. Laguna was eager to get my saw in working order, Woodcraft not so much. It seemed to me that Woodcraft people were hiding their heads in the sand when the issue moved out of the local store.

Lee Valley, Tools for Working Wood, Tools from Japan and my friends just down the road at Highland Woodworking, all always seem to go beyond the call of duty.

[Max Withers]

I live within walking distance of my local, and the people are nice, and it seems like a great place to buy router bits and pen blanks. The hand tool selection is uninspiring. On the other hand, the day I finally checked my combination square and found it a 32nd out of square, I just walked up there and bought a Starett. On the Other other hand, I paid $15 more (plus tax, minus shipping) than I would have from Lee Valley.

I just posted in a different thread that I got some Woodcraft gift certificates, and I really don't know what to use them for. Finish, glue, sandpaper, but not hand tools. OK, I do need some card scrapers.

[Frederick Skelly]

+1 for mcfeelys.

I buy from WC online and have had good results. Ive started buying from LV when they have a similar item or a better item that costs marginally more. Had a return. Got the same great service you folks have repeatedly described here.

Fred

[Shawn Pixley]

The Woodcraft near me is excellent. I patronize them for day to day supplies and various consumables. He also tracks down interesting lumber from urban forestors. The employees are educated and informed. They have good classes taught by skilled people. I have never bought from the online woodcraft.

I get hand tools from LV or LN.

[george wilson]

I really do like the people and most of the products and the atmosphere at our local(almost local to me) Woodcraft store. It is the ONLY such store around this area. I always get a fresh injection of inspiration there. Pleasant's Hardware in Richmond has a large selection of woodworking tools,but I have a more enjoyable experience at Woodcraft,and would hate to see it go. They teach classes there,too,which I've been invited to teach in. A bit far for me to run in on Saturday morning,though.

The relatively few cheap products they sell are annoying,but I can't realistically compare the Woodcraft of the 60's to the one of today. They have to sell what they can get,after all. They still are the dealers for the ne plus ultra Swiss carving tools I like so much. They used to sell a few LN planes. I bought a few shoulder planes from them. But,I guess that deal is gone. I WISH we had an LV store here,too!!

My old 1960's Marples square has the brass facing to the wooden beam attached with a sliding dovetail,not just screwed onto the wood as it is today. That level of craftsmanship in small commercial tools like squares in the old companies is gone,except for a revival going on in LV,LN,and the small companies like Vesper Tools,and several small saw makers,and some English tool makers like Iles. Hey!! This list is pretty long!! Maybe we aren't in such bad shape after all!! I could probably name some more good tool makers,but I just woke up at 4:30 this A.M.,and am not in gear yet. My back won't let me sleep.

It would really be good if Woodcraft could sell some of these limited production tools. I suppose the mark ups would be too high for them,being small makers as they are. I certainly can't afford to make and sell tools wholesale,nor am I inclined towards production anyway. Did a bit of that in the museum. Never enjoyed it. Cramps my creativity. I wish Chris Vesper would start making tools with scales IN INCHES (he's all metric)!!!!:) He has a pretty decent out put of squares,bevels,marking knives,etc.. And,he's much younger than I am. Had him here for a week last year. He makes some real nice things.

There is nothing like a store,where you can actually examine what you are buying. I'd loved to have gone to the original store in Boston in the 60's.

I know what Matthew says is true about the tough row to hoe that Woodcraft has. In our jewelry business,we only allow 1 dealer per zip code,and try to protect them.

There is a guitar amplifier maker in Va. Beach who sells to local stores. He won't make it long,because when the customers in a store see that he's nearby,they go directly to him and make a deal. His amps sit unsold at the stores. Soon they will be out of selling his stuff,and He'll be out of the free advertising,too. Well,just another Fender copy anyway,like many other such amps. If they had real taste,they'd copy Standels!:) Probably couldn't round up the original 15" JBL speakers,though. You've just GOT to protect your dealers if you want to do business.

Enough of my disjointed ramblings!

[Matt Meiser]

I doubt many markets would support a high end store like LV. And remember, much of what makes LV so great, they are the manufacturer, distributor, and retailer. No "middle-man".

The quality of a Woodcraft store is all about who owns it and how they run it. I absolutely refused to go to the one in Canton, MI for years because the manager the absentee owner had in place was a terrible and it reflected in everything they did. He finally left and they are slowly on the mend. In the mean time one opened in Toledo. Its very rare that I go in there and one or both of the owners aren't in the store. They've now promoted one of the original employees to manager. The owners and staff know me and my family by name and they do a lot of free demos, many that are more than just "let me show you the Kreg Jig" to give people a reason to stop by. Last year they did an invitation-only Festool demo that was really more of a training on the MFT coupled with demos of some of last years new tools. I learned a lot and they sold me on an MFT. Unfortunately I had to wait a couple days for mine because they sold another guy too and he was first--their guy did THAT good a job demonstrating it. I do shop there quite a bit including several of my Festool purchases and my Sawstop. Other miscellaneous stuff I may pay a little more but having a good local store is worth it.

Rockler is the one I tend to dislike. I stop in the St. Louis store every time I'm in town--very convenient on the return trip to the airport. I rarely buy anything as I couldn't carry most of it with me. Detroit I only go to rarely as its over a 150 mile round trip. What really rubbed me wrong about Rockler is the whole "Independent Rockler Reseller" thing. I regularly get Rockler coupons in the mail that I can't use at the semi-local independent reseller and it makes no sense to drive 150 miles to use them. The sale prices in the ads are only available online (with shipping fees) or at the actual stores. I wrote them an email about the issue, but the response back was that there was no possible way they could work that out--which I call BS. Since then the local reseller has basically disintegrated into a tool flea market so I suppose it doesn't matter anyway.

[David Weaver]

Rockler uses what we call the "kohls" model here. Sell a lot of low manufacturing cost stuff and offer a coupon for all of it. Make the list price up by increasing it the price of the coupon (or more) and draw people in who don't do comparative shopping.

From time to time they'll have a real deal, but living about 2 miles down the road from one, I rarely use the coupons because I can't use them on the things I'd actually want, and it's cheaper to go up the hill and get TBIII at home depot if I need some.

I don't like the coupon business model much because it encourages retailers to sell crap to preserve their margin, but I guess these days, all of the mail order places are replacing anything they can with crap, because a $1 made in china item that they can sell for $10 is better business than a $20 US made item that they can sell for $25-$30. One only has to go look at alibaba to see the per unit costs of a lot of the imported junk.

Kohls is the same way - a whole lot of short-lived imported clothes that can only be a good deal if you can stack coupons on top of sales. But it sure gets people in the store, just as rockler's coupons do.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I have shopped at the Woodcraft in Woburn Ma since about 1984 or 85. It was the only store at the time and had the warehouse a couple of streets behind it for the mail order business. I now primarily shop at the Newington NH store because it is closer and I don't have to pay a sales tax. Service at both stores has had its ups and downs over the years as the staff and store managers changed but it has generally ranged from good to very good to excellant. During the better part of 40 years I've only had one or two "iffy" experiences. In my book, that is pretty damn good for any business. As enthusiasts in a relatively narrow area of interest I would suggest that we hold higher expectations for any of our specialty retailers than we do for businesses ranging from the local supermarket, the discount department store, or the big box hardware/lumber retailers. Our level of knowledge also makes us far more critical of any lapses.

These days when I walk into Woodcraft I am a disappointment to them since I'm generally only picking up abrasives, hardware, finishing supplies, or maybe another carving gouge. My big ticket purchases are pretty much in the past and I seldom spend more than $25-50. If there is a larger dollar value purchase it generally is from one of the more specialized and innovative dealers on the internet. As we progress through levels of experience and skill in our favored hobby our needs, desires, and expectations change.

[george wilson]

Me,too. I bought machines while still working,but have had everything I need at home for a long time. I'd like a 20" planer,but worry about all the weight in my original 16' x 22' garage I added my 30' x 40' building onto. The old garage doesn't have a real strong foundation,at least to my eyes. An awful lot of weight in there already. My wood rack weighs 800# EMPTY. Now,it's chock full of mostly heavy woods. Plus,all my woodworking machines,except the bandsaw and drill press.

[Caleb James]

Needless to say,lumber at Woodcraft is VERY expensive. We used to have a decent lumber dealer in Richmond,but they are long gone.

George, aside from Woodcraft, what would you say is the best bet for lumber within the Williamsburg/Richmond area? Being new to the hobby, I am stumped on where to locate quality domestic wood for a decent price. Mail Order?


George, Lumber Sales,in Richmond is still good . Not a lot of exotics beyond mahogany ,but that is good there.

Guess I should have read the full post. Mel where would you advise on purchasing wood in Richmond?

[Mel Fulks]

Sorry I wasn't clear, the name is LUMBER SALES inc or company. They are consistent because they always use the same suppliers ,for example ,poplar from them is flat and straight and does not explode when you cut the bundle bands. They are mainly suppliers to the trade ,don't know what policy or minimum order is.

[Edward Mitton]

The local Woodcraft here in south Denver is only a 3 minute drive from my workplace, so I can slip over there during any lunch hour. I usually only buy things that are on my 'want list' and that have gone on sale. My most recent purchase was a 6 piece Wood River chisel set. The chisels are generally good quality, but I had to spend some time flattening the backs of the larger sizes. They also carry a very good selection of off-the-shelf books and DVDs. Recently picked up a copy of Raffen's turning DVD for my wife. Another thing I like is their class offerings. Even though there is a hefty tuition for most, occasionally they will schedule a free demo session. The folks that work at this particular location are generally a good, friendly, knowledgable lot.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I live on an island, so when I go to the states I look up Woodcraft to see if there is a store in the town I'm going to. They are great for specialty tools, and I can save money on shipping if I find a store nearby.

I also check out Rockler but they are pricey. By the way, never sign up for their email. You will get bombarded with sales, all of which in some form or fashion will include a bench cookie. They act like these bench cookies are so great, but they are always on some sort of sale. "Buy a nail, get a bench cookie. How about this lovely Swiss Army knife. It has a knife, scissors, tweezers, and a bench cookie." Haha. I jest, but not far from the truth. It's a hockey puck with a pad on it. In fact at one time they actually were selling hockey pucks at one of these places.

We have a Home Depot now on island, and they have some good stuff, but I sure wish they would get some Porter Cable, Delta, or other stuff. It is mostly Ridgid (which I actually mostly like for the price) and Ryobi, which is about as sorry a tool brand as they come.

[Jim Koepke]

By the way, never sign up for their email. You will get bombarded with sales, all of which in some form or fashion will include a bench cookie.

Now if it was a chocolate fudge chocolate chip cookie they would have me. :D

jtk

[Jack Curtis]

...As enthusiasts in a relatively narrow area of interest I would suggest that we hold higher expectations for any of our specialty retailers than we do for businesses ranging from the local supermarket, the discount department store, or the big box hardware/lumber retailers. Our level of knowledge also makes us far more critical of any lapses....

I don't know, basically consider it somewhat more important what I ingest. I tend to hold all retailers to high standards of customer service and product quality. If they don't want to play, there's always someone online who does.

[Jim Neeley]

You will get bombarded with sales, all of which in some form or fashion will include a bench cookie. They act like these bench cookies are so great, but they are always on some sort of sale. "Buy a nail, get a bench cookie. How about this lovely Swiss Army knife. It has a knife, scissors, tweezers, and a bench cookie." Haha. I jest, but not far from the truth. It's a hockey puck with a pad on it. In fact at one time they actually were selling hockey pucks at one of these places.

Since you mentioned it i just checked Amazon which sells a dozen hockey pucks, freight prepaid, for $19.14. Rockler wants $12.49 plus freight for 4 cookies.

If hockey is local to your area you can get pucks for $1 apiece in the hockey shops.

[Tom Bussey]

The nearest WW store to me is Woodsmith and it is 2 4/5 minutes at70 MPH. Rockler and Woodcraft are about 4 1/2 hours away. HD, Lowes and Menards are an hour away so count your blessings even if you are not thrilled. It would be wonderful to start on a project and be able to just run oner and pick up some of anyhing needed for it.

Tom

[Jim Matthews]

These days when I walk into Woodcraft I am a disappointment to them since I'm generally only picking up abrasives, hardware, finishing supplies, or maybe another carving gouge. My big ticket purchases are pretty much in the past and I seldom spend more than $25-50.

It's my belief that you're purchasing from the higher profit margin items, if that's your shopping list.
They're not making money on the big ticket items; it's the disposable things that add up.

[Dave Anderson NH]

That's no doubt true Jim, but if I want to complete a project it is necessary and it costs only a pittance compared to the wood and the labor I've invested.

[Mike Holbrook]

Dave makes a good point. Still, I think we have to "judge" companies against their competitors. Companies like Lee Valley, Tools for Working Wood and Highland Woodworking set the bar very high. Certainly those three companies are one store businesses which gives them some advantages. It is certainly harder to maintain the same level of service when you add additional levels of management, dare we say bureaucracy, required to run chain type stores.

I generally prefer to support the smaller operations like Tools From Japan where there is a person that is more service oriented who also provides more targeted solutions to my tool needs. Like others have said, I buy smaller items infrequently at the chain stores, especially since I had issues with the one large tool purchase I made at a chain store.

[Rob Lee]

(snip)....... Certainly those three companies are one store businesses which gives them some advantages. (Snip)

Ummmm....15 stores, three shipping warehouses, and a manufacturing operation here.....just a tad different from a one store operation.... :)

About 800 FT staff....

Cheers,

Rob

[Justin Coon]

I rather like my local woodcraft. Lee is the manager and is there every time I go in. They do free weekly seminars on a variety of topics...September is all hand planes: Handplanes 101, Handplane usage, plane sharpening, etc. While I agree that their selection of handtools is limited, I like supporting them because I know they're there when I need them in a pinch when in the middle of a project. I bought a bandsaw from them earlier this year after spending a couple hours talking with Lee about shop set up, etc. For somebody who is doing all their WW learning from books, internet, and trial and error, its great to be able to walk in to their store and discuss a problem with a tool or a project. If we don't support them they won't be there when you need them. I'll pay a small premium on some items for piece of mind.

[Brian Holcombe]

I don't mind them, they've always provided what I've ordered in a timely fashion. However, I always give the nod to small shops like Blue Spruce or specialized shops like Lie-Nielsen since I prefer to acknowledge the savoir-faire of a small shop. I am an individual maker and appreciate those who acknowledge the experience of a commission over immediate satisfaction. I do the same when I can.

[Mike Holbrook]

Sorry Rob, It looks like one store from my computer. I obviously never hit the store locations button. More of a compliment that the service is as good or better than single stores. I doubt that is by accident.

[John Powers]

you have to admit, Woodcraft has a wall full of Pfiel carving tools and a big block of wood you can try them out on. guess pilferage is a bigger issue in Canada since you sure can't do that at Lee Valley in Toronto. Woodcraft rifflers are a joke compared to the ones from TFWW. I'm saving to go to France so I can't afford the french ones.

[george wilson]

Woodcraft rifflers are among the cheap Chinese stuff they sell. Time was,I bought a set of 12 Italian made decent rifflers from them.

As a guitar maker I buy wood from Maurice Condon Boat Lumber C. in White Plains,New York,International Violin Co. in Baltimore.

I haven't had to buy wood lately as I could get it from the museum,and don't often build furniture anyway.

There is Waterfront Lumber Co. all the way down to the water in Newport News,and through a bad neighborhood. I haven't been there for some time,but they used to have a decent selection of hardwoods. I have accumulated so much wood,I don't need to go buy any,unless I embark on a special piece of furniture,which isn't likely right now.

[Keith Outten]

George,

You know that Yukon Lumber is in Norfolk Virginia. They normally carry a fair amount of lumber in a wide selection of species.
Right in your back yard is Earth Resources in Grafton Virginia which is a small Mom and Pop type of business.
-----------------

Its not a secret that I am not a fan of WoodCraft Corporate, I really like the owner and the staff of the WoodCraft Store in Norfolk and I visit this store when I am in the area but I won't order anything from their corporate web site.

[george wilson]

Keith,I had forgotten about Yukon. Several years ago I quit going there due to the attitude of the owner and his wife. They had a shipment of "Brazilian rosewood" which definitely was NOT B.R.. Her know it all attitude over that wood,and several other issues started putting me off. I felt like they were trying to rip everyone off.I have used Brazilian since at least 1957 on guitars,and I know it very well.

I'll have to check out Grafton.

Now that I think of it,we have a friend who has a lumber yard and sawmill in Providence Forge. Called "Museum Resources". He specializes in custom sawing lumber in colonial sizes and species for museums rebuilding buildings. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. Just a lot of strain on me at home right now. He has hard maple,and lots of other good wood. Not into the exotics as far as I know. The last thing we bought from him was some 2" maple. We had to make some saddle trees for the harness maker's shop. They couldn't buy authentic 18th. C. style trees.

The museum had a large quantity of wood in the warehouse,so we didn't have to worry about outside sources very much. We sawed 5000 BF of beech wood ourselves,which most tools were made from.

My friend and co worker Jon has tractor trailers he hides in his 100 acres. He saws up trees given to him after storms around here. A lot of walnut,especial stock blanks. I gave him a 32" dia. poplar I had to have cut down. Looming over my house. That'l make some nice 6 board chests!! He lets it air dry in the trailers. Believe it or not,he has gotten tractor truck trailers for $250.00! Their tires were worth more than that!

[Keith Outten]

George,

I have purchased a lot of 5/4 cherry from Earth Resources in Grafton for signs at CNU.

Earth Resources
409 Railway Rd.
Grafton VA. 23692
757-898-0045

Call before you visit, the guy sells lumber from a lumber shed at his home for his son in North Carolina. He is a retired guy and very friendly.


Yukon has a reputation but I have had pretty good luck buying poplar and some other species from them. I try to deal with the sales guys when I can as they will walk you though the lumber storage areas and are generally pretty friendly. I'm pretty sure Yukon is the largest lumber yard in our area and although I don't like driving to the other side of Hampton Roads I will if I have to in off peak traffic hours.
.

[george wilson]

Keith,what was the BF cost of the cherry?

[Keith Outten]

George,

I can't remember the price but I will see if I can find a receipt.
.

[John Coloccia]

Woodcraft rifflers are among the cheap Chinese stuff they sell. Time was,I bought a set of 12 Italian made decent rifflers from them.

I bought Italian riflers from them too...probably the same set. I think they came in a grey plastic sleeve. They were uncharacteristically expensive compared to some of the other stuff they had, though less than you'd expect to pay for quality riflers, and they are very nice. I snatched them up as soon as I saw them and had a chance to examine them for a minute.

Unfortunately, Woodcraft's quality profile is schizophrenic. Some of what they carry is overpriced garbage....some of it is properly priced garbage (hey, if you spend $20 on a set of 500 drill bits that are perpetually on sale, you deserve what you get). Some of it is properly priced, high quality tools. Pfeil tools come to mind...great tools at a good price. It's a shame because it dilutes the brand and makes you really scratch your head when you're buying something. Is it good? Will it work? I wish they would just decide on some sort of brand identity and stick to it.

Anyhow, as to the original question, I'm a big fan of Woodcraft. If not for them, my only option would be the BORG, and that's practically no option for anything except some Jorgensen clamps. My local Woodcraft is filled with very knowledgeable staff....I used to be one of them before my own business started to take up my time full time. Before that, I was just another customer and they always went well out of their way to help me out and work with me. Most of the stores are independently owned, so I guess there's variability in service and knowledge, but mine is top notch in every respect, from the owner on down. I wish they were a bit more like Lee Valley, eh, but Lee Valley is able to operate retail stores in a country where more people appreciate quality products and maybe some other advantages. I'm just happy that the local Woodcrafts are able to stay afloat however they have to do it.

[Keith Outten]

The WoodCraft store in Norfolk is a privately owned franchise. As John mentioned the Owner and the Staff of the Norfolk store are friendly and knowledgeable AND they will leave you alone when you just want to browse the store. I pretty much stay away from their lumber section, the prices are a bit out of my league and more specifically above my level of woodworking talent. I tend to stay with local species like maple, walnut, red and white oak, cherry and I order red alder every now and then for engraving plaques. I use Corian for most of my sign jobs but there are occasions when I turn pens from exotic wood species. The majority of the exotic pen blanks I receive from Members of The Creek that are donated to the Freedom Pens Project.

I recently made my first purchase from Lee Valley. I ordered several items and was impressed with the quality of every piece, plus they are an advertiser here and I believe in supporting our sponsors.

[John Coloccia]

I pretty much stay away from their lumber section, the prices are a bit out of my league and more specifically above my level of woodworking talent. I tend to stay with local species like maple, walnut, red and white oak, cherry and I order red alder every now and then for engraving plaques.

That's variable from store to store too. Individual owners have quite a bit of discretion re: what to bring in from outside sources. My local WC actually stocks a good amount of lumber that is sourced locally...not those little surfaced boards and turning blocks, but actual large pieces of rough lumber. Their lumber is actually priced to BEAT the local lumber yards 90% of the time, believe it or not. Sometimes, he runs absolutely ridiculous specials. For example, he got a great deal on a ton of cherry, and he blew out the entire lot for $2.99/bf. I tell everyone to check our local WC first when looking for lumber because the prices are so good.

[Joey Naeger]

I like buying carving tools at Woodcraft because I can bring in my my tool and roll and find the sweep I want. I mostly ignore the rest of the merchandise, but I'm glad they're there.

[george wilson]

Those Pfiels are the best. I have a large number of carving tools,mostly 19th. C.(the "golden age of English tools") And some 18th. C.,many early 20th. C.. Anyway, I like the Pfiels the best of any.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I have received a lot of good free advice at my local woodcraft. They have stopped me from doing wrong things and had me do some good things. I have gone in intending to purchase something specific and left with something completely different (that in retrospect was a much better choice).

I will agree that they do sell some "junk". One example is a grinder that I purchased from them. That said, I was pretty sure it was junk when I bought it, and the price reflected that it was junk. It served my need, so I kept it even though they do have a very good return policy.

[Jack Curtis]

Those Pfiels are the best. I have a large number of carving tools,mostly 19th. C.(the "golden age of English tools") And some 18th. C.,many early 20th. C.. Anyway, I like the Pfiels the best of any.

Well, there are also Dastras, which are my slight favorite over Pfiels; and then Stubais, which Nora Hall seems to favor. I'd think it safer to say that chisels from their part of the world are well done. And then there are my Takahashi, which are also superior.

[george wilson]

Is Nora Hall the old lady who taught linen carving on Roy's show? I never really liked Dastras as well. Just my preferences. I tried some in the 70's.I don't use Japanese tools,so I wouldn't know about them. Do they offer as wide a range of shapes and sizes as Pfiel?

All the tiny rosette carvings I've posted here,and the lion's head violin neck of curly maple were done with my little set of 12 Pfiels(the small size tools) that I got back in the 60's. For some time they were my only carving tools since I tended to do small work on instruments. Curly maple is not the easiest wood to carve smoothly. I like boxwood the best for carving,really.

This carving looks gaudy to modern eyes,but it has to be looked at in the context from which it was originally made. I made a cittern inspired by an original made for Archduke Ferdinand of the Tyrol in the 16th. C. by Girolamo daVirchi. It was polychromed like this one,showing Lucretia the Roman being swallowed into Hell. Unfortunately,I have lost my good slides of this instrument except for a few. I made it for an artist. The carving is in boxwood done with my small size set of Pfiels.

The original was one of the Hapsburg treasures.

[Steven Lee, NC]

I've got no problems with my Local woodcraft but I tend to like higher end things so most of my money has gone elsewhere. I did buy most of my Festools from them but most of the other stuff from online retailers like Blue Spruce, LV, and LN.

[Nicholas Lile]

I've had good luck with Woodcraft so far to. With them selling Veritas tools and others I was able to save alot of money with them. I just bought my first set of water stones from Woodcraft and saved over $40 with them versus buying them at LV. Even with their own brand, I was able to save money.

Also as far a custumer service with Woodcraft, when I made my purchase one item came in broke and one was missing. I called them up and they had them in the mail that day and to my house in 3 days. To me, I couldn't ask for more.

Hope this helps,

Lile

[Ellen Benkin]

My "local" Woodcraft is an hour away -- sometimes 2 hours with S Calif traffic. Because I know the owner I try to give them the business for big purchases but I certainly would not make the drive for something simple like glue. Rockler is only 1/2 hour away so I am more likely to go there for small items that I don't want to wait for. I buy from both online but usually when they have their free shipping offers. I have gotten excellent customer service from both Woodcraft and Rockler. I also like LV, both the service and the quality of their products, and I do a lot of business with them online.

[Jack Curtis]

Is Nora Hall the old lady who taught linen carving on Roy's show? I never really liked Dastras as well. Just my preferences. I tried some in the 70's.I don't use Japanese tools,so I wouldn't know about them. Do they offer as wide a range of shapes and sizes as Pfiel?...

Here's a gallery of Hall's work norahall.com/photo.php , I don't know about linen and Roy. Japanese carving tools are very different from western style, I'm just starting to become familiar with them, pretty cool, and the steel seems superior. The fullest set I've seen pictured comes from Japan Woodworking.

[Jamie Cowan]

I had a really long, rambling post here, but let's keep it simple: Customers do not always make clear what their needs are.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Jamie, I don't know what $9 an hour means in terms of living standards but over here it would be a pretty decent wage but you can't compare though. I don't necessarily expect all shop staff to know everything but there at least needs to be one knowledgeable person on the floor. I'm happy with a shop assistant admitting that they don't know something but then they need to go and find out. When I get the floppy vague arm point to some random aisle or a blank stare, that is when I lose my cool.

I must admit working three jobs must suck but at least you're working as opposed to sitting on your arse and blaming the previous government for your situation.

[george wilson]

Hilton,$9.00 an hour is a very low wage. Jamie has more endurance than I do! The person I've often had to deal with at our Woodcraft is some pain in the neck woodworking wannabe. He thinks their Tormek leather stropping wheels are the greatest thing going. They dull my knife! As a person who had to deal with tourists every day,even though we were not trying to sell them some expensive musical instrument,I symphatize with Jamie. Particularly irritating were the old men who would focus on some trivial detail in the shop to belly ache about,ignoring all the other beautiful work. One 80 year old fool gave me a hard time because I had some brass violin planes on my bench. He was convinced that only the Chinese knew how to cast brass. And "Humph!,all those books I read must have been wrong". (No,they weren't wrong,you just can't remember them correctly,I wanted to tell him,but could not) I didn't know how to deal with someone at that basic ignorance level. They expected their age to be proof of great knowledge.

[Bill Bukovec]

I bought my Laguna bandsaw at Woodcraft. Odd thing, woodcraft didn't carry blades for the saw. I took a shellac class from Woodcraft last spring. The teacher spent too much time on the history and origins of shellac. Less than five minutes on French polishing. I don't buy that much stuff anymore, but when I do it's over the internet.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I bought my Laguna bandsaw at Woodcraft. Odd thing, woodcraft didn't carry blades for the saw.

Wowser!


I took a shellac class from Woodcraft last spring. The teacher spent too much time on the history and origins of shellac. Less than five minutes on French polishing.

I hope you commented appropriately when they had your rate the class afterwards...

[Richard Jones]

Aside from the store itself, I have great memories of going with my father to the Greensboro NC Woodcraft and just wandering around. One of the last pics I have of him was in front of those huge bubinga slabs they had. Wish I had him back.........

So for some of us, it's not about retail....

[Richard Jones]

....... I took a shellac class from Woodcraft last spring. The teacher spent too much time on the history and origins of shellac. Less than five minutes on French polishing. I don't buy that much stuff anymore, but when I do it's over the internet.

I'm with you. I can read about history, but the actual physical demonstration doesn't translate as well in text....... I also don't care about their speaking to their pedigree. I will have researched that prior......

[Jamie Cowan]

Thanks, George. I edited my post down to nothing, as the first comment about $9 an hour seemed like a decent living wage just about set me off on a rant. I decided I shouldn't grease the skids toward all out class warfare. I always enjoy your posts, and admire the exceptional work you do and have done. As for the Tormek, yeah, it's funny how some sales guys gravitate toward some gizmo or other, and just won't let up. Even in the face of evidence. Flat, stationary stones seem to have worked plenty good for plenty folks through the years, or even the guy traveling with a stone wheel, but there are those who think that shortening the radius and adding electricity is just what the game needed. I don't know about the leather wheel, but an old belt works for me.

[Hilton Ralphs]

the first comment about $9 an hour seemed like a decent living wage just about set me off on a rant.

Jamie, if you are referring to my comment then you've completely misunderstood me. I was actually sympathizing with you.

[Keith Outten]

In the USA a nine dollar per hour wage today, even for part time employment, is very low IMO. At just one dollar and seventy five cents above the minimum wage 9 bucks per hour for skilled work should embarrass a company the size of WoodCraft, Lowes, etc. In the late sixties I made $6.54 cents per hour bagging groceries all through high school. My second part time job as a tool keeper and light truck driver paid $6.84 cents per hour when I was a college student. At that time you could purchase a nice brick home for about four times my annual tool keeper salary in Eastern Virginia.

This shows how much things have changed concerning compensation for unskilled labor over the last forty years. In my opinion the current rates for skilled labor is a disgrace.
.

[David Weaver]

I can't speak too much to the places like lowes and home depot (I'd assume that a fair number of the staff is better compensated if they have skills to demand it - former tradespeople, etc).

As far as woodcraft goes, if they pay something like that at a franchise, I can't see them deciding to pay a lot more in some places and being able to stay in business given all of the mail order they have to fight against and the fact that the franchise owner is expecting some profit, too.

We have a rockler here (no WC) and though I have no idea what either of them pay, I wouldn't be surprised if the rockler tellers and stockers were around that level. they're located in a monstrously expensive commercial area (but might not get much traffic if they weren't). Most of the guys that I've talked to there, though, have jobs elsewhere, and the couple of folks who seem to be in there all the time are either retirees or they rotate out sooner or later.

I'd have to guess the very things we want WC and rockler to carry the most (quality premium tools and high quality consumables) are the same things that are the hardest for their business models to support.

My dad grew up rural and told me when I was little that he made about a buck an hour back in the mid 60s either washing dishes/busing tables or doing farm work. If you do much of those two things, you'll find yourself gravitating toward getting as many hours as possible washing dishes. He got out of school in '72 and made about $6,000 a year starting salary as a teacher. I remember as a kid being told who lived in all of the little buildings on the farms on both sides of the family. If you had a concrete block building that was two rooms with a wood stove, you'd always have an old bachelor living in it if the rent was low enough. Those buildings are all empty now - it'd probably be illegal to rent them. I don't see many people these days living the lifestyle those guys lived. The guy who lived in the block house behind dad's farm loaded shotgun shells and took whatever farm work he could get, but otherwise didn't go anywhere much or spend much money.

My first job in the early 90s was washing dishes for about 10% more than minimum wage at the time (I was making 4.75, and min wage had just gone up to 4.25). I remember getting my first check. I had made an agreement with myself to spend 20% and save 80% and my parents came from such a stingy background that when my mother went ballistic when she found out I was going to spend any of it.

[george wilson]

Keith,you did better than I did. In the 60's ,I was making $2.50 an hour teaching shop.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

As for the Tormek, yeah, it's funny how some sales guys gravitate toward some gizmo or other, and just won't let up. Even in the face of evidence. Flat, stationary stones seem to have worked plenty good for plenty folks through the years, or even the guy traveling with a stone wheel, but there are those who think that shortening the radius and adding electricity is just what the game needed. I don't know about the leather wheel, but an old belt works for me.

I suppose the best way to say it is that I just kept buying stuff until I found things that worked for me. When I had to seriously fix a bunch of chisels, I moved to something with electricity. Note that I had pretty good luck with sandpaper and a guide. At the moment, I prefer the Tormek because I can make something usable very quickly without burning. When things are really out of whack, I find even that too slow and I use a regular grinder. I rarely use my Tormek because after things are good to go, I keep them that way on water stones. I had a lot of trouble learning to free hand, but found that the hollow grind from the Tormek made that much easier to do. I expect that would have mattered less if I had someone else around to help me through my troubled learning to sharpen phase.

I found that I had pretty good luck using the leather portion of the Tormek wheel. and it can polish things up pretty quickly. You need a lot of care, however to not round over the edge. That is probably a possibility for any leather. I bought some leather to attach to a board to use to strop, but since things feel pretty sharp using a 16000 Norton that I purchased here, I just have not got around to it.

I don't know a lot of wood workers that live close, and of those that I do know, I helped them get their hand tools sharper. I keep hoping that I will stumble onto someone close that is a sharpening guru to either put me in my place and show me how to do it right, or to pat me on the back and say "yeah, that is certainly sharp enough". I guess you could say that I am insecure as to the final product. I thought I used to know what sharp is, and figured out that I was wrong (because my tools are sharper now than they used to be).

So Jamie, if you ever make it to my part of town, I will buy you dinner and a drink and you can show me how you sharpen and we can compare notes. Might want the drink after we play with sharp things, however.

[Jim Koepke]

I was making $2.50 an hour teaching shop.

That was my wage installing telephones in the late 60s.

My first car was a VW bug. It took an hour's wage to fill up the 10.5 gallon tank.

Most of my life was working at a wage where an hour's work would fill that same tank.

jtk

[Jack Curtis]

Keith,you did better than I did. In the 60's ,I was making $2.50 an hour teaching shop. Loading dock work always paid 3 or 4 times most other part time jobs, perhaps because they were funded by boosters and intended for poor athletes. Probably a lot different these days.

[Jamie Cowan]

Hilton,
No worries, I didn't take it in a bad way, but when I saw your post mentioning the pay, I suddenly remembered how chat rooms work in the States. Class warfare breaks out, and it ends with fifty guys telling me I should fell lucky to have a job at all, never mind three jobs--and that if I was worth anything at all, I'd have a better job. I really didn't mean to drag you into it at all. I just had a sense that the topic was going to veer off from what I felt was important in the post. So don't chew on that chisel handle, let me do it for you. No charge!

[Jamie Cowan]

Andrew,
Yeah, I buy a lot of chisels and gouges at antique shops and such, and electricity is the way to go. If the edge isn't 90 degrees or has a chip or was ground at a bad angle, the waterstones are going to take forever. I have a Worksharp and a slow speed grinder for these tasks. Nothing wrong with them, I was just trying to illustrate that everyone has their "I can't live without this" tool, and when it is a sales guy, you should take that into account when he tries to sell you something. What the sales guy likes isn't always going to be what works for you. Oh, and I've rounded some edges freehand that needed to be cleaned up with the Worksharp for sure. As for that dinner, look out, because I have family in Columbus--so you're hooped!

[Derek Cohen]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Jamie Cowan http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2158837#post2158837)
the first comment about $9 an hour seemed like a decent living wage just about set me off on a rant.



Jamie, if you are referring to my comment then you've completely misunderstood me. I was actually sympathizing with you.



Hi Hilton

Better make it clear that you are referring to the conditions in South Africa and not the USA. That's where the confusion lies. The last time I was in Cape Town the exchange rate was about 9:1, that is, USD 1 = ZAR 9. With 30% of SA unemployed (official figures - probably about half of the real figures), money is in short supply and goes a lot further for most of the population.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Hilton Ralphs]

Better make it clear that you are referring to the conditions in South Africa and not the USA.

Thought I had.

271594



The last time I was in Cape Town the exchange rate was about 9:1

Since then it's gone to about 10.5 then back just under 10. Makes buying from the States frustrating because the rate always seems to get better momentarily a couple of days before payday.

[Ryan Baker]

The quality of a Woodcraft store is all about who owns it and how they run it. I absolutely refused to go to the one in Canton, MI for years because the manager the absentee owner had in place was a terrible and it reflected in everything they did. He finally left and they are slowly on the mend.

So you're not a big fan of Randy then? :) He left to get into tree farming.

[Mike Brady]

The Woodcraft stores in the Chicago area (were four of them, now just two) are franchises owned by the same individual. I heard that they were recently sold, which could only help, in this case. Overall, I'm happy the stores are there for the woodworking community. Personally, I'm a very infrequent shopper there; particularly since their relationship with Lie-Nielsen fell apart and the knock-off tools from the Far East replaced them. They are a decent source for good hinges, etc. and quality finishing supplies. Like other retail stores have discovered, it is increasingly difficult to compete with on-line sellers, which in Woodcraft's case, is themselves,

A couple of years ago, the president of Woodcraft sent out an email questionaire seeking opinions about their company from customers. My response was that they should follow the model of their Atlanta store, which does not have to confine their merchandising to the matrix of products chosen by Woodcraft corporate. The Atlanta store has many products that folks around this forum would be willing to buy at retail, but can't get at their local Woodcraft outlet. If I had access to a Woodcraft storefront based on the Atlanta model, I would undoubtedly shift much of my online buying to the traditional retail format. Obviously, my suggestion fell on deaf ears, as I have seen no change in the merchandising in their franchise stores.

[Alan Lightstone]

I buy a boatload of stuff from our local Woodcraft in Clearwater, FL. Real nice guys / manager / owner. They have been a non-stop source of good advice for me from when I started in this hobby. Delivered my SawStop and constantly special order stuff for me.

It's a tough business. The margins are quite thin, and the target clientele is aging. My biggest complaint is one of inventory. It's frustrating when they have 1 of an item, and I need two (although Lowes and Home Depot do the same thing lately too).

I try to order from them instead of mail order, just so they stay in business, despite it being easier to just click online and have things appear at the door.

I think there is a lot to be said for a nice, well run business that is in your neighborhood, so you don't have to wait a week to get in supplies when you need them.

And I do order from Rockler, and Lee Valley. They have different stuff, and Lee Valley's customer service is superb.

[Jamie Cowan]

Mike Brady,
I don't think your suggestion fell on deaf ears, it's just that corporate doesn't really have any incentive to encourage stores to start sourcing stuff on their own. Also, it can cause a conflict of interest. For example, I know of one tool company that got Woodcraft to agree to not carry another specific company's tool line. So I'm sure Woodcraft would rather avoid complications, yet I think all stores can sell non-woodcraft merch. The one I work at does. We buy lumber from outside sources, have had used tools on occasion, and the one I work at buys stair tread gauges I make from me to sell in the store. I wish Woodcraft corporate would buy them from me. It would make up for a lot of other things.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Jamie, does Woodcraft HQ not buy from you because you are selling as an individual or some other reason? Is it easy to set-up a company to do this?

[Frederick Skelly]

Jamie,
I didnt get to read your original (unedited) post. But I'll bend my knee in respect to anyone who's got the strength, self discipline and determinarion to work three jobs.
Fred

[Matt Meiser]

So you're not a big fan of Randy then? :) He left to get into tree farming.

Maybe.... ;)

[David Weaver]

As far as woodcraft promising not to carry another brand if they sold a specific line, I don't think that's unusual in retailing, especially if the retailer has a significant amount of market share (and WC does have a pretty large market share). If you're a maker of a product supplying something to WC, and you get into a situation where you guarantee that you'll be able to stock WC stores with product up to a point or whatever, and you tool up and hire to do it and they pick up a competitor line at the same time and cut your sales in half, you'll not be too happy about it.

[Mike Brady]

[QUOTE=Jamie Cowan;2160862]Mike Brady,
" it's just that corporate doesn't really have any incentive to encourage stores to start sourcing stuff on their own".
One hundred eighty degrees from what I have been told about their sourcing policy. Like many franchises, they require that everything in the store be bought through corporate. Perhaps your store has some leeway on that, as does the Atlanta store. I have a good friend who worked at the north suburban store in Chicago, which is a franchise, not a corporate store; and he told me everything they sold except wood was right out of the catalog matrix of merchandise. Sounds to me like there are different deals for some of the franchises and corporate stores. My point is that the sterile formula they utilize makes the stores dull and out of touch with what we in this forum would consider exciting and new.