Do I need a jointer?

[Ken Garland]

So I'm just an average joe woodworker building out of my garage. My typical constructions include end-tables, aquarium stands, benches, stools and other miscellaneous box shaped items. My big struggle is having straight lumber to work with, sometimes I end up with slightly off measure boards due to unequal edges in the wood. Will having a jointer resolve these issues?

With smaller builds I use my mitre saw or router to get a straight edge before assembly but lately with some of the bigger builds it has been impossible to use these tools for the job.

[Steve Jenkins]

Ken, I think trhat a jointer is indispensible (sp?). As you surmised it will allow you to straighten bowed,twisted,cupped or curved stock easily, with practice. All of these operations can be accomplished in other ways but usually need some "jigging up" on other machines or hand work. The partner to the jointer is the thickness planer.I always buy my lumber "in the rough" so I can straighten it and dimension it to the thickness I need. Woodworking is so much easier if you aren't fighting the wood.
If you want to stop by I'd be happy to give you a demo and a few pointers. A jointer looks like the simplest machine in the shop but it does require some finesse to use well.

[Ryan Mooney]

A jointer won't help unequal edges (if I'm reading you right on what you mean by unequal). It will help you get one straight edge and one face flat and square to that one edge.

There are a number of tricks folks have to do that without a jointer though. For getting the face flat a lot of people use a sled with shims. You can use a guide board fastened to the workpiece to get a straight edge. You can also use a route with a guide board to straighten an edge. If you search around here a bit you can find a lot of links for folks various jigs.

You don't say what other tools you have but I'd put a tablesaw and a planner over a jointer by a long shot if you don't have those yet.

[Chris Fournier]

A jointer is one of the first machines that you can get that will help you dimension rough lumber as you see fit. It is worth every penny. Jointer, planer, tablesaw and foursquare work is efficient and achieveable for you.

[Scott T Smith]

I use my jointer constantly; along with the planer they are the two most used pieces of equipment in the shop.

[David C. Roseman]

[snip]
You don't say what other tools you have but I'd put a tablesaw and a planner over a jointer by a long shot if you don't have those yet.

I guess I'd differ on having a planer before a jointer. If there's any cupping, racking or twisting in the lumber, it really needs to be jointed before the planer can do its job.

As Steve says, there are other ways to machine a board flat than with a jointer. And you can do it by hand with a jointing plane, for that matter. But your pleasure in woodworking will really be kicked up a notch if you have room and the budget at this point for even a small jointer.

David

[Steve Jenkins]

You don't say what other tools you have but I'd put a tablesaw and a planner over a jointer by a long shot if you don't have those yet.[/QUOTE]

I agree with both those machines.
One time just for grins I used the jointer to not only flatten one face but also to make the opposite face parallel to it, just like you would do using a hand plane. It was a major pain in the rearend and took an inordinate amount of time. Not something I would care to repeat. For all practical purposes you can joint with a planer (using a sled) but you can't thickness plane with a jointer. It simply is not designed for that purpose.

[Mike OMelia]

I was going to reply "does a fish need water?" Lol, guess I did. The planer is the other tool that is necessary. I don't have one, I use a thickness sander. Takes longer and is not appropriate for big jobs. But I build guitars... So I have a tool appropriate for guitars and OK for other stuff. It's a question of space.

Mike

[Judson Green]

Square and flat is where its at.

[jack forsberg]

Generally wood is trued with a jointer ,than a planer, then a saw(4 square ). there are work arounds but procedure is the key to milling stock flat and true. the tools don't do it for ya but were made to do each of the steps in preparing stock. So its not a question do you need a jointer if you understand the steps in milling stock. Its starts with understanding the steps and then what each machine does IMO.

[Myk Rian]

Another way to flatten a board is with a router planer. I'm in the middle of building one to be used on my table saw. It will plane a board up to 2'x5'. I'm building it to do a 2.5" thick slab for a table top.
A write-up will be posted soon.

[Sam Murdoch]

There are lots of non jointer ways to get a straight edge but unless you are seriously into using hand planes there is no more direct way to establish a flat face on a board than with a jointer. Yeah, some work arounds with sleds for planers or routers but why go through that hassle if you have the shop room and can afford a decent used or new jointer? It is an indispensable time saving and accuracy building tool in my estimation. The question of whether to get a thickness planer before the jointer is a chicken or egg kind of question especially as you can buy dimensioned (thicknessed) lumber from lots of sources. I believe that if you are serious about doing woodworking on a regular basis though, you need both - the planer and the jointer.

To reiterate Chris Fournier's post - "A jointer is one of the first machines that you can get that will help you dimension rough lumber as you see fit. It is worth every penny. Jointer, planer, tablesaw and foursquare work is efficient and achieveable for you." +1

[glenn bradley]

Disclaimer: The following is my humble opinion and worth exactly what you are paying for it - For purposes of this discussion I am assuming that your material has no true edge on any surface (to assure success, you should assume that too no matter what).

First; if you are making furniture out of solid woods and are not very proficient with hand tools or lack the adequate shop time to allow for the pleasurable use of them, you need a jointer.
Second(s) [:)]: One has a few challenges when squaring up lumber. A jointer is the answer to all of them. Another method of obtaining what a jointer does is just as good an answer, they just aren't as simple.

Edge jointing: This can be accomplished with a straightedge and a circular saw or a router. Methods are also available for the tablesaw to perform this function. Your tolerance for methods other than a jointer will vary based on how often you make things.
Face jointing: This can be accomplished with a router sled (time consuming with mixed results) or a planer sled (the near perfect solution for a jointer-less [or too narrow of a jointer] shop.

Myth: "You can joint the face of a board by running it through the planer a lot without a sled". This may work sometimes for some boards but, the natural irregularities of lumber make this questionable at best for predictable repeatability. Yes, I know others feel strongly the other way but, take it from me. If you don't have money, room or the inclination to buy a jointer, make a good planer sled and build a jig for edge jointing and work happy.

[Ken Garland]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the amount of responses. Thank so much for the replies.

I have the following big ticket items in my shop: Tablesaw, Router, Mitre/Chop saw. Basic hand tools and power tools (circular saw, jigsaw, impact driver, driver, small hand planes, etc).

A jointer popped up on craigslist for a very reasonable price and I happen to have that amount of money to burn (well, not really, but you know how it is).

I'm growing tired of jigging up to make a straight board, even though I have plenty of accessories like a sled. As was mentioned by another poster I really don't have the time to work the wood before cut and assembly.

It sounds like the jointer is the way to go and I'm going to move forward on this purchase. I do plan on getting a planner later on but it seemed that the jointer was the first item to get that straight edge I needed. I'll be using 2x4's primarily, and they don't have a straight face. I may decide to change out what types of lumber I'm buying in the future such as rough cut just to give me more options, but will likely hold off until I get the planner for that change.

Thanks again to everyone who posted!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken,

The normal way I work wood in my shop is this.

First, I make sure the jointer fence is at 90º/perpendicular to the beds.

Second, I edge joint one edge. This provides a straight edge with which to work.

Third, I put the jointed edge to the fence and joint one face. This provides 2 flat surfaces perpendicular to each other.

Fourth, I surface plane the non-jointed face to make it smooth and parallel to the jointed face.

Fifth, using my table saw, I rip the entire length of the non-jointed edge by placing the jointed edge against the fence.

6th, if necessary, lightly joint the final ripped edge to remove saw blade marks.

In theory, all 4 sides should be straight, perpendicular to adjoining sides and parallel to opposite sides.

In theory, a jointer produces a straight edge. A planer makes a face parallel to the other face but not necessarily straight if the opposite reference face isn't straight.

Others may use different methods. That's fine.

Using some scrap wood, find a method that works for you and develop a routine.

Do get some good measurement tools.....squares, straightedge, etc. and check your setup prior to use and the results periodically.

[Ryan Mooney]

I guess I'd differ on having a planer before a jointer. If there's any cupping, racking or twisting in the lumber, it really needs to be jointed before the planer can do its job.

As Steve says, there are other ways to machine a board flat than with a jointer. And you can do it by hand with a jointing plane, for that matter. But your pleasure in woodworking will really be kicked up a notch if you have room and the budget at this point for even a small jointer.

David

Well, I CAN get a board true on two sides without a jointer (using a sled with a planer is probably the easiest way on the face and tablesaw jigs for the sides), but getting it true to those reference sides without a planer is imho even harder (at least on the face sides; the edges I'd run through the tablesaw to true to width more often than the planer unless the board was fairly narrow).

If you setup properly for it using a sled to face joint isn't really all that onerous, I didn't have a jointer for years, and while I surely do enjoy the one I have now it certainly wouldn't be the first machine I'd replace if I was starting over. The various sled tricks (planer sleds for medium pieces, router jigs for really wide ones, etc..) are worth learning anyway for when you get a piece of wood to wide for your jointer :D Edge jointing is definitely faster with a jointer but only maybe twice as fast as many of the alternative techniques - many of which are (again just imho) somewhat more reliable until you get your jointer setup properly and learn how to use it (and at least some of them are most likely safer). When setup well and used properly jointers are pretty sweet, if they are off (tables misaligned or cutter head to high/low mostly) they can be a real exercise in frustration.

In order of larger power tools I'd have want to keep I think it would be: a good bandsaw, planer, tablesaw, and finally jointer (ignoring all the "smaller" stuff like the shaper, and the "unrelated" stuff like the lathe - <3 my lathe, etc.. :D) - this is of course not the order I originally bought in (more like crappy tablesaw, ok planer, upgrade tablesaw + planer/jointer and finally bandsaw, I regret the years I spent without a bandsaw but it certainly won't get you straight/flat faces).

The underlying issue essentially boils down to the old time versus $$'s and space tradeoff. If you can afford a good planer and a good jointer by all means go ahead and get both. Do you NEED a jointer? I've seen lots of people doing work of a high quality without one that says you don't (and some who are adamant that it wouldn't really save them any real time at all based on how they work).

[Rick Fisher]

I started this hobby with a 6" Delta jointer. I hated the knives, it was terribly under powered. The beds and fence where short. So I used it for edges.

As the hobby progressed, I realized that very few woods where available in S4S and started buying rough lumber. I started to learn to face joint and quickly realized I needed a bigger jointer.

I bought a capable jointer and have not bought surfaced lumber since. Mostly I buy 8/4 Rough stock and dress it myself.

We are all different but I use the Jointer and Bandsaw more than any other tools in the shop.. I have a thickness sander and honestly don't use my planer much because of my "style" ..

I will Face and edge joint a board, and rip it to parallel on the bandsaw.. Then run it through the thickness sander..

[Steve Jenkins]

In my first post I said "come on by". I misread your last name Ken and thought it was posted by someone I know that lives about 15 miles from me although the offer stands if you're anywhere near McKinney Tx. that goes for anyone that needs a hand with something.
Ken F. I'm glad your method works for you but I'd suggest face jointing first. That will give you a nice wide surface to hold against the fence while jointing the edge. Much easier to get the edge square to the face. Depending on how squirrelly the board is I think it would be tough to hold the narrow edge square to the fence while doing the face.

[Mike Cutler]

Ken

There are many ways too "skin the cat", so to speak, for a shop without a jointer. In all honesty though, at the end of the day, a jointer is a more efficient, cost conscience, method.
A used 6" jointer would probably take care of the majority of what you are doing, and they are too inexpensive a method/machine too not pursue in my opinion. I can put a straight edge on a board a 1/2 dozen ways, none are as quick as a jointer. One face, one edge, a few minutes of time, and you're done.

[Ken Garland]

Ken

There are many ways too "skin the cat", so to speak, for a shop without a jointer. In all honesty though, at the end of the day, a jointer is a more efficient, cost conscience, method.
A used 6" jointer would probably take care of the majority of what you are doing, and they are too inexpensive a method/machine too not pursue in my opinion. I can put a straight edge on a board a 1/2 dozen ways, none are as quick as a jointer. One face, one edge, a few minutes of time, and you're done.

Thanks, after reading the posts these are my thoughts exactly. I found a Grizzly G0452 6" for $325 from someone local, should be worth it from what I've looked up price wise.

[Ken Garland]

In my first post I said "come on by". I misread your last name Ken and thought it was posted by someone I know that lives about 15 miles from me although the offer stands if you're anywhere near McKinney Tx. that goes for anyone that needs a hand with something.
Ken F. I'm glad your method works for you but I'd suggest face jointing first. That will give you a nice wide surface to hold against the fence while jointing the edge. Much easier to get the edge square to the face. Depending on how squirrelly the board is I think it would be tough to hold the narrow edge square to the fence while doing the face.

Not a problem Steve, I'd love to stop by but I'm in the North East.

[scott spencer]

A jointer is the most effective and efficient method of straightening and flattening a board...straight flat lumber is a great starting point for any project. If you work with a lot of dimensional lumber, a jointer sure is handy....especially when used in tandem with a planer. There are other methods, but all are workarounds for not having a jointer. Watch Norm, David Marks, Tommy Mack, The Wood Shop, etc....all use a jointer and planer.

[Mark Wooden]

So I'm just an average joe woodworker building out of my garage. My typical constructions include end-tables, aquarium stands, benches, stools and other miscellaneous box shaped items. My big struggle is having straight lumber to work with, sometimes I end up with slightly off measure boards due to unequal edges in the wood. Will having a jointer resolve these issues?

Do I need a jointer?

Yes

[Frank Drew]

Jointer, planer, tablesaw

I wouldn't want to open a shop without those three; of course you can do it all with hand tools, or workarounds such as planer sleds, but oh, so slowly, IMO.

[glenn bradley]

In my first post I said "come on by". I misread your last name Ken and thought it was posted by someone I know that lives about 15 miles from me although the offer stands if you're anywhere near McKinney Tx. that goes for anyone that needs a hand with something.
Ken F. I'm glad your method works for you but I'd suggest face jointing first. That will give you a nice wide surface to hold against the fence while jointing the edge. Much easier to get the edge square to the face. Depending on how squirrelly the board is I think it would be tough to hold the narrow edge square to the fence while doing the face.

Your a good man to offer Steve, no matter who you were talking to ;). Kudos to you. I also agree that face jointing is first as edge jointing with an untrue face against the fence can be problematic but, to each their own. If it works, it works ;-)

[Aleks Hunter]

If the workpieces are smaller, so you can make a jointing sled to use with a planer to give you that coveted true flat side. But in reality it is simpler to just get a jointer. another option is a heavy router with a straight bit and an EZ track.

[Myk Rian]

Here's the router sled/planer I referred to up-thread.
Going to use it on a redwood slab.
I have used a router sled to plane boards to as thin as 1/8" thick.

270176 270177

[Dan Hahr]

Unless you have unlimited amounts of time to burn or just love doing things the hard way, you do need a jointer. However, you need to make sure you get one that is lined up right. Having a jointer and not knowing how to get it perfect is very stressful. Research jointer use and alignment before buying a used one (or a lower end new one for that matter.) Take some straight edges when you go to look at one and don't be afraid to make the adjustments it needs before testing it out. A bad jointer is not necesarily better than none at all.

But yes, you do need one...with sharp knives...and flat tables...and fence....and a bunch of other things.

Dan

[Matt Mackinnon]

A jointer is the most effective and efficient method of straightening and flattening a board...straight flat lumber is a great starting point for any project.

I think those words were the most telling in the thread. The topic of having a jointer or not is a matter of opinion and preference, but weigh it against time, cost and convenience. Yes you can flatten wood face with other tool. Heck, you could do it with a spoon given enough time and skill, but it would be hardly worth it as there are better tools to do the job. I have both a jointer and a planer and use them both all the time. I had the space in my shop for both, and value my shop time that I want easy quick repeatable and accurate results and messing around with jigs, sleds and whatnot to make some other tool do a job that it really wasn't intended for didn't make any sense to me.

Ken. it sounds like you are buying pre-dimensioned lumber. A jointer probably wont solve your problem any better than a table saw would. It is really designed to make a single flat face on a board, and give a flat side that is 90deg to that face.

Matt

[Jamie Lynch]

I have been ww'ing for about 15 years. Somehow I only just bought my first jointer and planer in the past couple months. No you don't HAVE to have one. BUT... if you can fit it in your budget, I highly recommend getting a jointer (as long as you already have a planer). It will open up so many more possibilities than just working with s4s and plywood.

[Ken Garland]

Well the seller decided to keep it. I'm devastated honestly. :(

Looks like I'll be sticking with the router/saw combo for now. Eventually when another deal pops up I'll grab a jointer.

[Sam Murdoch]

Well the seller decided to keep it. I'm devastated honestly. :(

Looks like I'll be sticking with the router/saw combo for now. Eventually when another deal pops up I'll grab a jointer.


He must have been reading this thread and realized what he'd be missing :(. Take heart, there is a better deal out there with your name on it.

[Ken Garland]

Two came up on CL nearby.. A Grizzly 1182 6" for $375 and a Ridgid JP0610 6" for $300.

Good, bad, wait?

[Keith Hankins]

Well a planer and jointer were some of the first tools I got. I think working with flat wood with parallel sides is the base for all successful projects. Now do you need a powered jointer, I'd say not necessarily. I used a scrub plane and a #7 hand plane to flatten a lot of boards and they all came out perfect with winding sticks. Rob Cosmon's rough to ready is a great reference guide. Now, I have a big 12" powered jointer and it does make life a lot easier, but you can do it without. If you do want to get one, check for old american iron that can be had for a lot less. I wish I'd went that rout. Good luck.

[joe maday]

In essex vermont, craigs list shows a 6" reliant looks to be in good shape...65.00! Just for comparision.

[Ken Garland]

Is this a good company? I haven't heard of them, it has a made in Taiwan. Sticker up front so I'm just worried about replacement parts or quality in regards to being square.

Thanks for the find though, I did email him.



In essex vermont, craigs list shows a 6" reliant looks to be in good shape...65.00! Just for comparision.

[Aleks Hunter]

Haggle for the grizzly, Its 13 amps, vs 5 for the rigid. over twice the power. Plus, you'll be able to get parts if you need them. But check it out
run a few boards over it
If the guy balks at that idea, run!