New small shop equipment review

[David Rust]

Hi All,

I am setting up a small wood shop and want to get your opinions on the equipment list I have. My shop is small so I am trying to keep the equipment footprints small. I most likely will need to pull out the equipemnt to the center of the shop to use it then store it against the wall when I am done.

I am working mostly with Maple, I may be getting into more exotic hardwoods down the road. Most of my projects will be small, however I may have large quantities of each item. I will be ripping, rounding edges and cutting channels using a router, planing, and using the band saw.

Here is my list:
1. Dewalt DW735X Planer
2. Porter Cable Band Saw PCB330BS
3. Dewalt 744 Table Saw (with stand)
4. Bosch Router Table RA1181
5. Bosch Router 1617EVSPK
6. Dewalt Miter Saw DW713 with Stand DWX724
7. GRizzley Dust Collections System, GO583C (1 micron)

Let loose... what do you think? Most of this I can get at HD or Lowes... Remember space is very limited.

Thanks,
Dave

[Bill Huber]

Before I say anything about the list what size will your shop be?

[Jason White]

If you're just getting started, try to find some of this stuff used on Craigslist. Some amazing bargains (and junk) to be had there!

Also, consider skipping the portable table saw (been there, done that) and go right for a used cabinet saw. You'll find that the footprint for many cabinet saws is quite small and you'll be much happier with it in general.


Hi All,

I am setting up a small wood shop and want to get your opinions on the equipment list I have. My shop is small so I am trying to keep the equipment footprints small. I most likely will need to pull out the equipemnt to the center of the shop to use it then store it against the wall when I am done.

I am working mostly with Maple, I may be getting into more exotic hardwoods down the road. Most of my projects will be small, however I may have large quantities of each item. I will be ripping, rounding edges and cutting channels using a router, planing, and using the band saw.

Here is my list:
1. Dewalt DW735X Planer
2. Porter Cable Band Saw PCB330BS
3. Dewalt 744 Table Saw (with stand)
4. Bosch Router Table RA1181
5. Bosch Router 1617EVSPK
6. Dewalt Miter Saw DW713 with Stand DWX724
7. GRizzley Dust Collections System, GO583C (1 micron)

Let loose... what do you think? Most of this I can get at HD or Lowes... Remember space is very limited.

Thanks,
Dave

[Wade Lippman]

Do you really need a bandsaw? A jigsaw can do much of the same work.
A good tablesaw will do much of what a mitersaw is for.
I have both tools; I'm just saying you don't need them.
Otoh, WW without a jointer is awkward. I know some get by with a router, but it can't be easy.

[David Rust]

Before I say anything about the list what size will your shop be?

Hi Bill,
11' x 24'
Dave

[Bill Huber]

Well 11x24 is not that small, my shop is 12x16 and I have a table saw, Jet contractor, Jet 14" band saw, Jet 10-20 drum sander, Drill Press, Ridgid sander, Ridgid 13" planer, 12'x 32" bench, 2, 4'x2' shelves and a home built router table. I think it is all in how you use the space. My table saw, band saw, drum sander, planer are all on mobile bases.

Now to the list.
1. Dewalt DW735X Planer, I hear nothing but good about it and it is something that I use a lot, the planer

2. Porter Cable Band Saw PCB330BS, not sure on that one, but a band saw it a nice thing to have.

3. Dewalt 744 Table Saw (with stand), like the other get a used cabinet or contractor table saw, you will not be happy with the little saw like that.

4. Bosch Router Table RA1181, build your own and get a good top and lift, I think you will be much happier with then the little table.

5. Bosch Router 1617EVSPK, that is a good router, I have 2 of them and the only problem I have had was with a switch.

6. Dewalt Miter Saw DW713 with Stand DWX724, don't need it, you can do everything on with the other tools.

7. GRizzley Dust Collections System, GO583C (1 micron), don't know anything about it but you need dust collection.

I have a little 6" jointer that sets on the end of the bench, I do not use it a lot but it is nice for getting a cupped board flat.

Here is my shop, you can look around, I have made some changes and have not updated the images.

http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/shop_t

[Aleks Hunter]

Hi David,
Congrats on deciding to set up shop. One thing on your list that is missing is a jointer. A planer is not the same thing, and without a reference surface and a good square angle its pretty close to impossible to do any really accurate work.
Rather than buying all new at The BORG (big orange retail giant) or that blue place, think about looking through local shoppers and craigslist or even machinery auctions like IRS and you'd be surprised what you can get for relatively little money. Every piece of wood that comes in the shop takes a ride over the jointer first. Its a 24" SA Woods No.7 with a 10 hp baldor motor that I picked up for $700 Just last week I brought in a minimax lathe for 325 all told. At the same sale a 14" powermatic TS with 5 roller feeder went for 1200! Kicked myself for showing up late. A few years ago I picked up a Craftsman RAS was free. Shopping around visiting people who are selling tools is an interesting add on to my woodworking hobby. I've pretty much sworn off paying retail for tools. Money is better spent on wood :D

All that said, another avenue to look it is Eureka Zone's stuff which are saw and router tracks and all sorts of clever add ons that allow you to cut using the "dead work" approach, which makes dealing with bigger projects a lot easier, and makes edge jointing without a jointer possible.

[Rick Fisher]

If your okay with a small planer .. nice choice.

I wouldn't buy that table saw..

Get the bandsaw from Grizzly or a good used one..

Would not buy the bosch router table either ..

Would not buy the DeWalt miter saw .

Good luck ..

[Vince Shriver]

I'd add a drill press (can be bench or floor mounted), and - it goes without saying almost - a bench with a wood vise. Also one of those little Rigid edge sanders would be handy. Add hand tools as you need them. Make sure you have plenty of good lighting where needed.

[Greg Peterson]

You'll likely want/need some of the following incidental hand tools:

Chisels
Block plane
Coping saw
Dozuki saw
Files, rasps, microplaners...
Measuring and marking tools


Then there's the task of sharpening. Great book on that by Leonard Lee, The Complete Guide to Sharpening.

And I've not seen many power tools that offer good, let alone excellent, dust collection, so you may want to consider an ambient air cleaner for the shop space. Even through my best efforts and diligence, plenty of dust escapes the collector and finds its way into the airspace. Circular saw, jigsaw, sanding and band saw are the biggest culprits of throwing fines into the air.

Give me a few more minutes.....

Oh yeah. Clamps. Can not have too many clamps.

[glenn bradley]

You probably knew that you would get as many different answers as you did answers when you asked this ;-) that's good, just factor it all in and adjust things to suit yourself.

1. Dewalt DW735X Planer
- 99% good reviews from owners and just about anyone else who reviews this machine. I think they have overpriced their market and I did well with the DW743 for many years till I upgraded to a floor machine. Just as an indicator, when I sold it it went to a pro-shop that already had one and wanted another.
2. Porter Cable Band Saw PCB330BS
- Very unimpressed with this machine. I consider a bandsaw essential and would do without a tablesaw before I gave up the bandsaw. The importance of each, to you, will depend directly on what you plan to do.
3. Dewalt 744 Table Saw (with stand)
- Mitersaws have never been worth the real estate they suck up to me. Mine is currently in an outbuilding somewhere. Put the money you would have spent on that towards a better tablesaw. Skip the job-site portable saw category.
4. Bosch Router Table RA1181
- Buy a larger top (or make your own) and make your own cabinet. If you get a larger saw, you could get a wing mounted router table depending on your floor plan.
5. Bosch Router 1617EVSPK
- I'm sold on Milwaukee 5600 series routers but, the Bosch has a large following of very satisfied owners.
6. Dewalt Miter Saw DW713 with Stand DWX724
- See the answer to number 3.
7. GRizzley Dust Collections System, GO583C (1 micron)
- Dust collection should be first on your list. I assume you will be venting back into your shop air supply so a good filter is essential. A 1HP machine is barely adequate for most things so I would consider upping the power versus eventual replacement.

[Judson Green]

If you really want to stick to a smaller table saw size you might be able to find one of these (Delta homecraft fixed top table saw) on your local craigslist. Its just like a uni saw but smaller in every way. Takes a 8" blade. Its definitely not a power house.

270029

+1 on at least a 14" band saw, easily the most used power tool in my arsenal. Having a good fence for it makes a difference.

And +1 on shopping the used market. As many can attest... thay don't make em like they used to.

Also a good collection of hand tools.

[Greg Peterson]

As Glenn stated, DC should be the first matter to address. The DC unit you are looking at *may* provide adequate performance if you hook it up to a single machine at a time. Do not expect it to be able to power a DC network. While a shop vac is not able to perform DC duties, it can be used in conjunction with DC. I use the shop vac in conjunction with the DC on the TS and router.

I have modified my Harbor Freight DC unit to include the Thien Baffle and a Wynn Environmental canister filter. I also use a Jet AFS-1000B air filter loaded to clean the ambient air. Just so that I have some measure of DC performance, I use a Dylos particle counter to measure the air quality in the shop. If it gets too poor, I either wear a respirator mask or leave the shop for a while.

Like most folks that take DC seriously, I've spent a great deal of time devising DC solutions for my power tools (router, jointer, drill press, TS, cross cut sled, finger joint jig...). All of these power tools, out of the box, leave you to fend for yourself when it comes to DC. This will become painfully obvious within about five minutes of working some wood.

It isn't glamorous, fun or inexpensive, but like clamps, you can never enough DC.

[Jim Matthews]

If you're anywhere near a woodworking co-op I recommend buying only tools that do final shaping and joinery.
Use co-op time for getting your cut list complete (the donkey work) and home shop time for building (the fun stuff)

An alternate approach to milling you lumber (jointer, planer) would be to buy it S4S from your lumber supplier.
This is rarely mentioned, but it makes dollars and sense, and will save considerable floor space.

It's cheaper in the long run to buy your lumber close to your desired thickness.

Bandsaws are more flexible than table saws, and a 14" Delta variant will do 80-90% of what larger ones can manage.

If you're planning to use sheet goods like plywood, a good tracksaw can do the Lion's share of what a table saw can manage.
Combined with a good router, track guides can manage many shaping and joinery tasks, with a small strorage footprint.

If you're anywhere near Burlington, VT I recommend an introductory course with Bob Fletcher at the Vermont woodworking school. (http://vermontwoodworkingschool.com/FACULTY.html)
If you take a taster course, you'll get insight into what smaller tools can do for you, and guidance on setting up shop.

I've been at this less than 5 years. Half of it was spent buying things I don't need, the other half spent learning to use the ones I do.

[jeffrey bailey]

Bill, how do you like that Rigid sander? I have been looking at it but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

[Eric DeSilva]

An alternate approach to milling you lumber (jointer, planer) would be to buy it S4S from your lumber supplier.

S4S may be flat and co-planar when it got milled, but by the time you get it home, it may well have warped/cupped. Having the ability to mill raw lumber is something I see as pretty essential if you want to work extensively with hardwoods. If you want to think about other options, maybe investigate whether your county or city has any adult education classes that would give you access to, say, the local high school's shop.

I'm not sure I'd consider an 11 x 24 shop that small--poke around in the woodshops section and look at what people have done in really small spaces.

On the equipment side, the DeWalt planer gets good marks, but I wouldn't buy one without a jointer too. You can use a sled to fake it, but if you are processing any quantity of wood, you'll regret not having a jointer.

I'll second Craigslist as a good source of used equipment. I've purchased nearly all my big machines from Craigslist, and gotten really good deals on all of it.

Another option I'll throw out there for consideration is that there are people who are doing serious woodworking in tablesaw-less shops. Today you can buy very, very accurate tracksaws that offer a lot of the functionality of a table saw but take up a lot less space. There are some things you can't do with a track saw, but if you don't plan on doing a lot of cove cuts and are happy cutting dadoes with a router, it may make some sense. I use my track saw more and more and my cabinet saw less and less. I personally like Festool, which also offers really good dust collection, but you will find people that argue Festool is too spendy for what you get.

[Jim Matthews]

S4S may be flat and co-planar when it got milled, but by the time you get it home, it may well have warped/cupped.

I dress all boards before joinery.
The idea is to get close, at the source and do what you can by hand.

I'm not convinced that setting up shop is the time to buy gear that's expensive, rarely used and demands a large swath of real estate.

I've been building furniture for nearly five years now, and never needed either a jointer, or planer.

"You can use a sled to fake it, but if you are processing any quantity of wood, you'll regret not having a jointer."
The sled is a viable work around, but most of us are not processing enough rough lumber to get payback from the machine.

I just sent my Inca Jointer Planer off to it's new home, I never needed it in the three years it was here.

[Paul McGaha]

With the stationary tools in my shop about 90% of the tools were bought new and 10% were bought used. If I had to do it again I would try to do just the opposite and buy most of them used. My local craigslist is based on the Washington DC area and it has nice woodworking tools in it routinely.

I've also had good luck buying used tools from creekers.

A lot of bang for the buck with used tools.

Good luck with it.

PHM

[Myk Rian]

I've been building furniture for nearly five years now, and never needed either a jointer, or planer.
Without my jointers and planer, I never would have attempted this.

270118

Or this:

270119

Or many other projects.

[David Rust]

Wow.... Many thanks to all. Great advice!

I am going to read the responses a couple more times and then see what Craigslist has to offer!

Great photos of your shop Bill, thank you

[Greg Peterson]

The sled is a viable work around, but most of us are not processing enough rough lumber to get payback from the machine.


I think few of us ever expect to get payback from our investments in shop equipment.

[Frederick Skelly]

+1 on the drill press. Use mine on nearly every project.
Fred

[Bill White]

Check out the Grizzly 0555LX bandsaw. Great bang for the buck. Love mine. The cast iron wheels are great.
Harbor Freight dust collector with good bags.
In my estimation, the new Porter Cable stuff is not what the American made stuff was.
735 planer is a gem (but expensive). I have a 733 that has been serving me well for about 15 years.
Bought my TS used. It's a Grizz 0444Z contractor model with full cast iron wings. Done all I've ever needed.
Can't be without my air compressor.
Use a floor model old (quality) King Seeley-built Craftsman drill press a bunch.
Built my router table/stand. Don't use a lift. They're nice, but not necessary in my shop.
Just my thoughts.
Bill

[Andrew Pitonyak]

If you're just getting started, try to find some of this stuff used on Craigslist. Some amazing bargains (and junk) to be had there!

Also, consider skipping the portable table saw (been there, done that) and go right for a used cabinet saw. You'll find that the footprint for many cabinet saws is quite small and you'll be much happier with it in general.

I agree on both accounts..... I have a very usable Dewalt Surface Planer (735) and a Jet dust collector from craig's list. Saved a bundle of money buying them that way. My first table saw (a Ridgid) I also got from Craig's list, but when I upgraded I had already decided that I wanted a SawStop, which I rarely ever see on Craig's list near me. I have seen a couple of nice table saws on Craig's list, so be sure to look.

Because of space considerations, I mounted my router into the side table on the table saw. It saves space. With the ridgid, I was able to run a T-Track, but not on the Saw Stop because the bars are the same height as the table top.

[Patrick Grady]

I have the same sized shop and work both metal and wood. Because your project will small, I would delay table saw and miter saw purchase and concentrate heavily on finding the best bandsaw you can afford. I would also vision your workbench as a machine and focus on quality there too. I have a huge heavy bench vice and it is usually at the center of my activities (my best work light gravitated to a position directly over the vise). I have a 'center island' shop design that works well for me (and might for you because much of your work will involve smaller stuff). I would focus on your electric outlets (including convenient dropdowns or reachups) and lighting early on. I buy mostly used equipment partially because the web now allows much better parts and maintenance searches than in the past. Planning and building quick-reach tool racks and drawers is in my opinion very important regarding the comfort and pleasures of shopwork. I know your question concerns itself with specific machine tool selection, but I wanted to add my thoughts as perspective that I think the comfort of the overall shop environment has more to do with hand tools and storage and reach and stable platforms than any machine in the shop (exception being maybe a good bandsaw).

[glenn bradley]

I'm not convinced that setting up shop is the time to buy gear that's expensive, rarely used and demands a large swath of real estate.

Jim has a good point here. I have replaced nearly every early large machine purchase I made. I started with a used contractor saw and bandsaw for $180 from some old timer . . . hey, wait a minute. He was about the age I am now!!!