Help me upgrade my waterstone sharpening setup

[Tony Wilkins]

So my sharpening setup is fairly basic. I have waterstones - two waterstones - a 1000 grit Hida (which is a basic red coarse stone) and a 6000 grit King S3. I just got an Atoma Diamond 'stone' 400 grit to flatten them.

So how could I add to or upgrade my sharpening setup specifically?

I've got two Suehiro stones that I'm curious about. I know it's expensive but I keep finding myself looking at the Gokumyo very fine ceramic stones. I'm also curious about the new dual stones that you can use either oil or water. I'm not tied to those but just throwing'em out there as a possibility.

Disclaimer: don't know any short comings of my current stones per se but seems like most have at least a third finer stone.

[Jim Koepke]

My fine stone is an 8000 Norton. Not a great stone but an adequate stone for me. A few strokes on the strop and the blades cut very well.

In your case, my recommendation wouldn't be for an 8000 as you might not see much difference from your 6000. My knowledge about higher grit stones is only what has been posted here.

In my shop, there are two sharpening stations. One is for water stones and the other is for oil stones.

Do you currently use a strop?

Another thought is what goal are you trying to achieve versus how much do you want to spend?

There are stones in the 10,000 to 30,000 grit range. One of these could likely make the hairs on your arm run and hide before the blade got close.

It may have been David Weaver who once mentioned the hanging hair test for sharpness in a post here. Last week there was an episode of "Modern Marvels" titled "Hand Made." One of the people was a knife maker. He tests his blades with a hanging 1" rope. He swings the knife and cuts off a piece of rope no more than 6" from the end. It was impressive.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

My fine stone is an 8000 Norton. Not a great stone but an adequate stone for me. A few strokes on the strop and the blades cut very well.

In your case, my recommendation wouldn't be for an 8000 as you might not see much difference from your 6000. My knowledge about higher grit stones is only what has been posted here.

In my shop, there are two sharpening stations. One is for water stones and the other is for oil stones.

Do you currently use a strop?

Another thought is what goal are you trying to achieve versus how much do you want to spend?

There are stones in the 10,000 to 30,000 grit range. One of these could likely make the hairs on your arm run and hide before the blade got close.

It may have been David Weaver who once mentioned the hanging hair test for sharpness in a post here. Last week there was an episode of "Modern Marvels" titled "Hand Made." One of the people was a knife maker. He tests his blades with a hanging 1" rope. He swings the knife and cuts off a piece of rope no more than 6" from the end. It was impressive.

jtk

Jim, I don't currently strop. As far as what I'm looking for versus what I want to spend, I don't mind spending a little but I'm not sure (to be honest) what I have to gain. I'm new to sharpening as I am to woodworking. I've been trying to free hand with those two stones since I started last year. Results have been ok but not always even.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Aha! Perhaps next in line, as opposed to a new stone, should be a Veritas sharpening jig. I have tried the all and it is my favorite- accurate and easy to use.

As for stones, maybe a 10,000 grit, although it seems you have a large gap between the 1000 and 6000. I think you need something like a 3000 or 4000. Go to www.chefknivestogo.com They have every stone imaginable, and great rates.

[Adam Cruea]

I'm going to suggest http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=335_404_403&products_id=1667.

Sharp. Super sharp. Hair runs and hides, paper slices very well, and paper-thin shavings from things like hickory are a non-issue with these, and they cut very, very quickly. They also almost polish to a mirror finish (the 13K). After using those, I always run my blades over a non-loaded strop just in case there may be a wire edge left.

I previously had a Norton 1000 and 4000 with a King 8000 and strop. The Sigma stones I linked kick them all in the face, IMHO. The 6000 Sigma leaves a finish that the 8000 King would have left before, and the 13K stone is a serious polisher that leaves almost a mirror finish.

[Tony Wilkins]

Should have mentioned it I reckon but I do have the Veritas MK II honing jig along with camber roller attachment.

Looked at the Sigmas and they always seem to have high praise. Unless I go off in a totally different direction I'll probably get my stones from Stu.

[Archie England]

Should have mentioned it I reckon but I do have the Veritas MK II honing jig along with camber roller attachment.

Looked at the Sigmas and they always seem to have high praise. Unless I go off in a totally different direction I'll probably get my stones from Stu.

I'm a happy STU customer! !!!!


I like the Sigma Power 1200 better than the 1000 --- preference, I guess.

I like an intermediate between the 1200 and the Sigma Power 6000, but not always.

For rough planing or chiseling, I stop with 6k and a plain leather strop; for fine grain finishes or end grain, I go to 10k or 13k--both are really sweet stones.

BTW, did I mention that I'm a very satisfied customer of Stu's?

[Tony Wilkins]

Got a 'trial' stone. I got the little portable Suehiro dual stone drum set up to have around my workbench. Still open to suggestions as I figured that was a cheap as chips way of trying those more expensive stones.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

I've been trying to free hand with those two stones since I started last year. Results have been ok but not always even.

You'll get better. The most important thing I read about sharpening was something along the lines of, "you have to be able to feel when the tool is not sharp, then work on sharpening it for two minutes, and get back to cutting wood". I.e. keep tools always sharp; don't leave them dull until later; make sure you get good enough with your technique that you can sharpen as needed instead of putting it off. Freehand or with a jig, it doesn't matter.

My first year and a half of sharpening, or thereabouts, was not really satisfactory. Then I ran into that advice and it really helped. Exercise: keep your kitchen knives sharp with the same stones, and learn chef's knife skills - it's a revelation, and I don't know how, but I'm sure it also helps with your woodworking ;)

IMHO you don't need any more flat stones. I have a crappy 300/600 stone which I seldom use (it's just for preparing new/rough blades), and a 1000/8000 which I use all the time as my main stone. I made a strop by taking a piece of scrap and gluing a piece of leather to it, fuzzy side up. With a touch of green compound, it leaves a mirror finish and seems to leave things marginally better than the 8000 stone alone.

Get good with the stones you have, and if you outgrow them, only then think of getting something fancier, if you want.

What you may want is a set of slipstones with curved edges, to hone the inside of gouges and other curved tools. You can make do with dowels charged with honing compound, but slipstones are nice to have around.

[David Weaver]

There's really nothing you need to have. Do you want cheap or do you want the finest? The only thing I don't have experience with so much is the gokumyos and the oil/water stones that stu is carrying now, I've seen pretty much everything else.

For inexpensive as an additional stone but not throwing out the baby with the bath water, the 13k sigma power is the cheapest of the ultra fine stone, and the shapton 12/15k is also fine, but not quite as fine as the 13k (we are talking splitting split hairs here, both stones will already split hairs). The goks are apparently finer.

If you want almost free, MDF with the green honing compound LV has will do just as well as the above, but a good stone is nicer than pretty much anything else.

If you asked me what the most practical setup was having tried just about everything, I'd say add a hard 1000 stone (three best that aren't too expensive being the shapton pro 1000, the SP 1200 and the bester 1200). I use the mid stone little enough that it doesn't matter what it is. And then any of the shapton 12k/15k pro or sigma power 13k type stones. You have the diamond hone to keep any of the hard ones flat, and any of those will work with the array of stuff you normally find in woodworking tools.

[Ron Kellison]

I now use a set comprised of Sigma Power Select II stones in 1000, 3000 and 10,000 grit. If I'm looking to slice airborne hairs lengthwise I will strop on a piece of smooth leather charged with green compound. I flatten stones using a DMT diamond plate but, if I were doing it again, I think the Atoma 140 or 400 would get the nod.

One of the main secrets of sharpening success is consistency. You don't really NEED to change out the stones you now have. I would add a means of final stropping and get the Veritas sharpening jig to your setup. It will get you consistent results and get you to that next level of sharpness every time.

Ron

[Sam Murdoch]

For inexpensive as an additional stone but not throwing out the baby with the bath water, the 13k sigma power is the cheapest of the ultra fine stone, and the shapton 12/15k is also fine, but not quite as fine as the 13k (we are talking splitting split hairs here, both stones will already split hairs). The goks are apparently finer.

If you want almost free, MDF with the green honing compound LV has will do just as well as the above, but a good stone is nicer than pretty much anything else.

If you asked me what the most practical setup was having tried just about everything, I'd say add a hard 1000 stone (three best that aren't too expensive being the shapton pro 1000, the SP 1200 and the bester 1200). I use the mid stone little enough that it doesn't matter what it is. And then any of the shapton 12k/15k pro or sigma power 13k type stones. You have the diamond hone to keep any of the hard ones flat, and any of those will work with the array of stuff you normally find in woodworking tools.

So David, considering that I already have and use a Sigma 2,000 and 8,000 power stone (and a King 4,000) and an ATOMA 400 plate - that rather than picking up the Sigma 13,000 I could make do with some green honing compound on MDF to finish off the edge of my chisels and planer knives? I'm not smart enough with water stones yet to really know what I am missing. Had to relearn when I started buying Japanese tools.

Always reading these threads with great interest and often end up with more confusion :confused:. So many options... or so it seems.

[David Weaver]

So David, considering that I already have and use a Sigma 2,000 and 8,000 power stone (and a King 4,000) and an ATOMA 400 plate - that rather than picking up the Sigma 13,000 I could make do with some green honing compound on MDF to finish off the edge of my chisels and planer knives? I'm not smart enough with water stones yet to really know what I am missing. Had to relearn when I started buying Japanese tools.

Always reading these threads with great interest and often end up with more confusion :confused:. So many options... or so it seems.

Yes, the stone will be nicer to use and more consistent as long as it's soaked (and as long as soaking doesn't cause any problems for you given you're in coastal maine). If you have an indoor shop, it'll definitely be nicer.

But the edge won't be any better than green honing compound on MDF lubricated with a drop or two of mineral oil.

Lots of choices, but you can get good with anything. Really only need to pick something and go with it, and make sure your tools go with it. Pretty much anything goes with the green compound and sigma power stones, though.