Hand plane technique: Getting the edge square?

[Frederick Skelly]

I like using my Stanley or LN block to smooth the edge of a short board (less than about 14") after it's been cut to width on the bandsaw. Running short stock on my jointer seems like a good way to get hurt, so the blocks seem like a perfect solution.

But I almost always wind up with the edge out of square with the face of the board. I go back and correct it, but of course the resulting board is now a bit narrower and I have to deal with that.

Could you guys please give me some tips to getting it square the FIRST time? Id sure appreciate it.

As always, thank you!
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

I seem to recall you live too far away to come pay a visit to work on this together. So maybe a few ideas developed over the years learned from my planing errors and corrections.

My first point is that my boards always seemed to be out of square in the same direction. This allowed me to adjust my plane handling.

Second point is you mention the board being a bit narrower after correction. This can be avoided by checking your work more often or earlier in the process. Another way is to mark your piece all the way around and then keep an eye on the lines as you plane.

My selection of a plane for working edge or face grain on small pieces is almost never a block plane. Depending on the size and the length either a small bench plane like a #3 or a #5-1/4 is chosen.

When taking off saw marks thick shavings make for fast work. When finishing a surface, it is time to dial back to very light shavings.

Once all the saw marks or other defects have been removed from the work piece it is checked for square. With a small try-square the piece can often remain in the vise while doing this. If the piece was marked it is easy to see if it is in square or out of square.

If the piece is out of square, my plane is held down on the high side and up on the low side. Then a few passes are made and the work rechecked. After doing this a few times you will get to recognize how out of square the piece is compared to the thickness of the shavings and be able to hold the plane at the right angle so you will know when you get a full width shaving the piece is square.

There is a little bit about this method for squaring towards the end of this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148076

Hope this helps,

jtk

[David Weaver]

Two things:
* a plane that has the iron cutting evenly (in terms of depth) from left to right
* practice

It doesn't hurt if the plane is fairly long and very flat, and has a good sense of vertical balance (a stanley plane is easy to keep vertical), but you can master anything you're willing to get familiar with.

[Roy Lindberry]

I like using my Stanley or LN block to smooth the edge of a short board (less than about 14") after it's been cut to width on the bandsaw. Running short stock on my jointer seems like a good way to get hurt, so the blocks seem like a perfect solution.

But I almost always wind up with the edge out of square with the face of the board. I go back and correct it, but of course the resulting board is now a bit narrower and I have to deal with that.

Could you guys please give me some tips to getting it square the FIRST time? Id sure appreciate it.

As always, thank you!
Fred

Some of the things that helped me:

1. Hold the fingers of your forward hand under the plane sole and against the board. This gives you an instinctive "feel" for how the plane is riding along the surface. In my experience, the error tends to be leaning the plane toward your dominant (pushing) hand. By wrapping your fingers around the plane and feeling how it is contacting the wood, my issues with out of square were corrected almost immediately.

2. If you use a cambered iron, it will cut heavier in the middle and lighter on the edges. There is a tendency to plane a bit off center which will accumulate to an out of square edge. This can be easily corrected by simply running the center of the iron along the high side until the edge is back to square.

3. In a similar way, the lateral adjustment lever can be used to cause the plane to take a heavier or lighter shaving on one side or the other. This is more of a corrective action, since you would ideally have the iron set to a uniform depth across the mouth; however, this could make your corrections a bit easier and quicker, leaving more of your board to work with. The biggest benefit of doing this is that it is far easier to adjust the iron than to try to get a square edge by tipping the plane or by simply running just the edge of the plane along the high side. You will get much more consistent results and can very gradually even out the iron as you get closer to square.

4. Try adjusting the height of your work. If the board is sitting too high, it will put your hands in an unnatural position, shifting your weight to the side and making it difficult to keep square.

5. Practice. I know that seems trite, but with practice you will develop a feel for square. I remember how much trouble I had with this in previous years, and I was just noting the other day how I was able to feel if I was planing out of square.

[Jack Curtis]

One very easy thing you can do is make a groove with a marker where you want to stop, then stop. It's very easy to see when you're getting close, whether it's closer on one end than the other, etc.; so you can adjust your planing accordingly.

One thing that also worked for me was moving to wooden jointers. Their height seems to help keeping them straight and level.

Also, watch out for snipe, so you start the planing with all force applied to the front of the plane, then as you approach the end, move the force to the back gradually.

[Adam Cruea]

Practice and learning how planes cut.

I used to not be able to plane to flat or square at all. After a while, once I got there I'd kind of take a mental "snapshot" of the way things looked. I was never taught what "flat" or "square" was by eye. Of course, it also doesn't help I have astigmatism. . .

Like one person said, keep your fingers under the nose of your plane while edge-planing. . .you should feel when it's "off". Try to plane down the middle of the plane.

At the least, you can simply mark the board with a marking gauge or something and plane down to it. Then when you do that, start paying attention and your mind will hopefully pick up how to do "straight" and "flat" and "square".

[Stanley Covington]

I like using my Stanley or LN block to smooth the edge of a short board (less than about 14") after it's been cut to width on the bandsaw. Running short stock on my jointer seems like a good way to get hurt, so the blocks seem like a perfect solution.

But I almost always wind up with the edge out of square with the face of the board. I go back and correct it, but of course the resulting board is now a bit narrower and I have to deal with that.

Could you guys please give me some tips to getting it square the FIRST time? Id sure appreciate it.

As always, thank you!
Fred

I assume that you are securing the board in a vise, and balancing the plane on the edge. I am always amazed to see modern scribblers teaching people to true board edges by balancing a plane on the skinny edge. Of course, it can be done but it requires practice and very careful attention. There is a better way.

First, understand that the body of your plane is a jig that keeps the blade oriented properly with the wood, with the blade projecting neither too little nor too much. The sole is another important component of the plane as a jig. So long as the sole is flat (or at least the critical areas are in the same plane) the longer the body of the plane (within reason) the easier it is to create a straight edge. Consider using a longer plane. Even for short boards, a Jack plane is better than a Block plane. Make sure the sole is flat and true.

The sides of the plane are also very important jigs. If flat and true (no wind/twist) and machined precisely to 90 degrees, they ensure that both the sole and blade are held at 90 degrees to the sides. Most people first realize this advantage when they use a shooting board for the first time, but then limit their use of this excellent jig to the shooting board. Your benchtop is also a jig. It is not just a thick, high-friction table to clamp stuff to while you push and shove and bang on it. If it is sturdy, stable, flat, and true you can combine with your plane to make a very long shooting board to true long edges. This is called "jointing" and is a job the jointer plane does best.

To use your benchtop and plane this way, the workpiece must be flat on at least one side. Then the board is clamped to the benchtop, flat side down, with a thin board or boards sandwiched between it and the benchtop. These boards need to be very uniform in thickness, and a tiny bit thicker than the sides of your plane, but they can be as thick as you want so long as the entire edge to be trued has full contact with the plane's blade. Then you simply run the plane along the edge of the workpiece to cut a straight edge perpendicular to the benchtop, and therefore, perpendicular to the flat side of the workpiece. Check it with a straightedge and a square. As a final check, remove the clamps, balance the workpiece on-edge on your benchtop, and use a square on the benchtop with its tongue against the board to check for square. With a few strokes, and without any guesswork, and without the nonsense of balancing your long plane on the skinny, unstable edge of a board, you have created a perfect edge.

A little bit of oil applied regularly to the side of the plane by an oilpot will drastically reduce friction and speed up the job.

Of course, you can use this method to plane to a line very precisely and quickly too.

This is an ancient technique that modern scribblers in English have, for the most part, ignored. It is a standard woodworking procedure here in Japan. I must give credit to Christopher Schwarz for mentioning it in his blog. If I recall correctly, he mentioned it is SOP in France.

Of course, your benchtop needs to be flat, true (no wind), clean (no gobs of paint or glue or tape), and very smooth. If you can judge a man's skill by looking at his tools, the state of his benchtop tells much. Honest scratches, dents, cuts and stains are to be expected, but a warped surface with glue and paint everywhere tell a tale. Besides reducing the precision of the benchtop as a jig, the idea of using a toothing plane to create the final surface on a workbench is disgusting to me.

When it comes to the blade of a plane used to true board edges, many modern scribblers advocate a slightly curved cutting edge. But for truing a board edge narrower than the width of the blade, a curved blade is illogical even if it can be made to do the job. My advice is to sharpen your blade intended for truing edges straight, and have another plane with a curved blade for finish planing wide boards where the step created by the corners of a straight blade can create unsightly steps. Of course, if you are using Bailey style planes, it is easy to just have a spare curved blade to use when necessary.

For what it is worth.

Stan

[Steve Voigt]

Stanley,
you make some good points as usual, but I have to take issue with a couple things.
- I'm not sure what you mean about "modern scribblers." People have been jointing edges vertically at least since Roubo--that's what the leg vise and crotchet are for.
- For me, your method would take a lot longer to set up than simply grabbing the board in the vise. It also wouldn't work at all in my shop. My bench top is pine; my planes are cast iron, beech, or hard exotics. I'd rather not dig furrows into my bench! Perhaps your method works better in a traditional Japanese setup.
- I agree that working horizontally is practically a necessity for really narrow boards (under 1/2"), but why not just use a long-grain shooting board?
- However, for boards thicker than 1/2," getting a square edge by holding the work vertically is a fundamental skill that must be mastered. And, IMO, without jigs or fences. For that, I'll echo what others have said: Use a bench plane, not a block plane; check your work frequently; practice, practice, practice.

-Steve

[Jim Koepke]

Shooting board edges with a shooting board isn't a new idea here either:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?43195-I-just-don-t-get-it-All-the-fuss-about-jointing-that-is

Sometimes my larger shooting board is used for the edges of small pieces, less than 20", but most of the time it is just as easy to clamp it up in a vise.

jtk

[Tom Vanzant]

1+ what Stan said, but I elevate the workpiece with a piece of plywood. Virtually any plane with a straight edge perpendicular to the side can be used to shoot the edge.

[Stanley Covington]

Stanley,
you make some good points as usual, but I have to take issue with a couple things.
- I'm not sure what you mean about "modern scribblers." People have been jointing edges vertically at least since Roubo--that's what the leg vise and crotchet are for.
- For me, your method would take a lot longer to set up than simply grabbing the board in the vise. It also wouldn't work at all in my shop. My bench top is pine; my planes are cast iron, beech, or hard exotics. I'd rather not dig furrows into my bench! Perhaps your method works better in a traditional Japanese setup.
- I agree that working horizontally is practically a necessity for really narrow boards (under 1/2"), but why not just use a long-grain shooting board?
- However, for boards thicker than 1/2," getting a square edge by holding the work vertically is a fundamental skill that must be mastered. And, IMO, without jigs or fences. For that, I'll echo what others have said: Use a bench plane, not a block plane; check your work frequently; practice, practice, practice.

-Steve

"Modern Scribblers" = Modern journalists and authors. I realize that people have been jointing with the board positioned vertically for a long time, but they have been jointing horizontally for much longer. I am disappointed that the method is seldom seen in woodworking publications. I suspect the reason is that, despite their professed reliance on handtools, and the pretty pictures of planes and handsaws and artfully arranged wood shavings, few, if any, journalists and authors and gurus nowadays actually do all their material prep S4S using solely handtools, but instead use tablesaws, electrical jointers, and thickness planers to actually dimension the material, and then just remove the knife scoops with one or two passes of a hand plane. In fact, Christopher Schwarz has written as much, and I applaud his candor. Nothing wrong with using machines, but in doing so, precision relies more on the machine, and less on the woodworker's skill with a handplane. Actually edge jointing a few hundred board feet of rough hardwood lumber with uneven edges using handsaws and handplanes is a hell of a lot of work. In my experience, horizontal jointing is a quicker and easier way to get excellent precision.

Comparing the speed of vertical vs horizontal jointing would be interesting. I use both methods, and find that vertical jointing works better on material that has already been run through an electrical jointer. I also think that vertical jointing is more efficient for wasting (hogging) material because you can readily put a lot of body weight over the plane. But regardless of where the jointing process began, finishing up using horizontal jointing creates a perfectly perpendicular edge quicker, with much less concentration, and less chance for Murphy to influence the process, in my experience. For boards longer than my benchtop, vertical is the only efficient option, of course. But everyone is different, I suppose.

I don't follow your statement about digging furrows into your benchtop with a your cast iron, beech, or exotic hardwood planes. Even if your benchtop is made from relatively soft pine, why would your plane dig furrows? Do your jointer planes have nickers or other protuberences? I admit that my large workbench is made from a very dense tropical hardwood with lots of embedded silica that tends to wear out even my metal-bodied planes, but my much shorter Japanese-style workbench is relatively soft Japanese cherry that is readily gouged by the screws and other metal bits on my Japanese plough and chamfer planes when I am not careful, and to date, neither my metal or oak bodied jointer/nagadai planes have dug any furrows into it after 30 years or so.

Good point about the long-grain shooting board. My Western-style benchtop is 8' long and 2' wide, and the method I described effectively turns the entire benchtop into a very stable shooting board. I couldn't make a dedicated long-grain shooting board as stable (3" thick hardwood) or as convenient, and even if I tried, it seems to me it would be awfully long and heavy and clumsy.

I agree with you about the need to master jointing vertically without jigs or fences (and I would add, without vises). But remember Fred's request: "Could you guys please give me some tips to getting it square the FIRST time?" Horizontal jointing is much more foolproof, IMO.

Stan

[Adam Cruea]

Another thing you can do is clamp the plane in your vise upside down and run the wood over it like that. The idea being that it's easier to see the board is perpendicular to the sole of the plane.

[Jim Matthews]

This is how I plane pieces smaller than my plane.

I use a sanding eraser to hold the small stock down,
and keep my fingers away from the cutting edge.

[Jim Neeley]

+1 on Stanley's approach... a

I do add one step though.. I generally use a #6 or #8 for this due to mass. In order for the board to end up perpendicular to the table, the blade must be dead-n perpendicular itself. If I have much to remove I'll take a scrap [one perfectly flat side], put it in the "jig", give it a few strokes (until full width) and check the scrap for square, adjusting the blade protrusion until it's dead-on. Once it's set, this can be repeated on any number of final pieces (until the blade dulls, of course). If I have much like this to do I'll adjust a plane for this service and then leave it dedicated for the rest of the project.

One example of why you can't have too many planes and chisels! <g>

[Frederick Skelly]

Thank you guys. I appreciate all the advice. Glad to hear that what I'm experiencing isn't unusual. I'll try your suggestions and keep practicing. I understand the need to master jointing vertically and I'll go work on that.

I'm also intrigued with Stan's suggestions on horizontal jointing. I hadnt thought of that, though it's obvious in hindsight. (OP slaps his forehead.) So I'll try that too - another technique for my slowly growing list.

I don't have a #3. I guess I thought my Stanley block was about the same size so I didn't need one. But I wasn't thinking of the balance and control you get with a bench plane. I'll try my #4 and if that feels too big, start looking for a #3.

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to teach me.
Fred

[Dan Shuflin]

I seem to recall you live too far away to come pay a visit to work on this together. So maybe a few ideas developed over the years learned from my planing errors and corrections.

My first point is that my boards always seemed to be out of square in the same direction. This allowed me to adjust my plane handling.

Second point is you mention the board being a bit narrower after correction. This can be avoided by checking your work more often or earlier in the process. Another way is to mark your piece all the way around and then keep an eye on the lines as you plane.

My selection of a plane for working edge or face grain on small pieces is almost never a block plane. Depending on the size and the length either a small bench plane like a #3 or a #5-1/4 is chosen.

When taking off saw marks thick shavings make for fast work. When finishing a surface, it is time to dial back to very light shavings.

Once all the saw marks or other defects have been removed from the work piece it is checked for square. With a small try-square the piece can often remain in the vise while doing this. If the piece was marked it is easy to see if it is in square or out of square.

If the piece is out of square, my plane is held down on the high side and up on the low side. Then a few passes are made and the work rechecked. After doing this a few times you will get to recognize how out of square the piece is compared to the thickness of the shavings and be able to hold the plane at the right angle so you will know when you get a full width shaving the piece is square.

There is a little bit about this method for squaring towards the end of this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148076

Hope this helps,

jtk

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/clear.gifJim
I just came across this post. I have the same problem. I too am retired and live in Longview,WA. I have been looking for someone to help me with my hand plane problems. If you are interested in showing me a few things I would be forever grateful. You can contact me at lonestarsmoker at gmail dot com.
Dan

[Jim Koepke]

Dan, Welcome to the Creek. See you have been here awhile sitting quietly.

I've sent you an email.

jtk

[Robert Engel]

Fred I would have no problem passing a 14" long board through a jointer why are you afraid of this? If you use a push block you should be able to joint even a 6" long board.

So if you're looking to clean up an exposed edge one or two passes with a #4 or block plane is fine obviously you're not worried about perfect squareness.

Forgive me if I will sound confusing but I will do my best to describe a couple things to consider.

If you are actually jointing two egdes you plane to glue, a short plane like a #4 you can quickly get into trouble especially sniping the ends. I suggest #6 and for boards over 24" a 7 or 8. I recommend once you've achieved square and straight, take a few extra passes in middle of the board then one long pass to finish up.

Another techniqu is to place the two boards face to face and when you joint any angular error is cancelled out because when you match the boards they are complimentary angles.

Unless you are hand jointing a lot, then IMO shooting an edge like Stanley describes is the fastest, most sure way BUT --

You have to check your plane for squareness sole to sides. I've seen many old planes way out of square due to warping of the metal. If the plane is not square you can get around it by squaring the blade to the side.

[Prashun Patel]

After you measure your edge, try planing with your eyes closed.

It is easier to joint an edge with a longer plane. You'll get better feedback and the plane will do more of the work. With a block plane you can get square, but it's harder to get flat.

[Frederick Skelly]

Fred I would have no problem passing a 14" long board through a jointer why are you afraid of this? If you use a push block you should be able to joint even a 6" long board.

So if you're looking to clean up an exposed edge one or two passes with a #4 or block plane is fine obviously you're not worried about perfect squareness.

Forgive me if I will sound confusing but I will do my best to describe a couple things to consider.

If you are actually jointing two egdes you plane to glue, a short plane like a #4 you can quickly get into trouble especially sniping the ends. I suggest #6 and for boards over 24" a 7 or 8. I recommend once you've achieved square and straight, take a few extra passes in middle of the board then one long pass to finish up.

Another techniqu is to place the two boards face to face and when you joint any angular error is cancelled out because when you match the boards they are complimentary angles.

Unless you are hand jointing a lot, then IMO shooting an edge like Stanley describes is the fastest, most sure way BUT --

You have to check your plane for squareness sole to sides. I've seen many old planes way out of square due to warping of the metal. If the plane is not square you can get around it by squaring the blade to the side.

Thanks Robert. I agree on using the tailed jointer for 14". When it gets shorter, I get less comfortable. Plus, at the time I wanted to learn a bit of technique. Thanks again for your advice!

Best,
Fred

[Frederick Skelly]

After you measure your edge, try planing with your eyes closed.

It is easier to joint an edge with a longer plane. You'll get better feedback and the plane will do more of the work. With a block plane you can get square, but it's harder to get flat.

Thanks Prashun!

[Matthew Springer]

Practice is the main thing.

I couldn't plane an edge square to save my life when I started. I'm amrginally better at it now. My big problem was I had the blade slightly skewed in the plane. So I was holding it right but the plane would cut unevenly which makes thing more out of square the more you chase it. Putting a slightish camber on the #7 blade helped too since you can adjust left/center/right to get more cutting one one side or the other on purpose.

If I get really really off, I now grab the LV edge trimming plane and make a square "flat" on the high side and reference that.

I also bought a 4" steel square which helps a bunch just checking a lot.

[Mike Wasson]

Like most people when I first started planing by hand I had the same problem.2 things I was taking way too much of a cut and my plane was not as sharp as I thought it was. After I learned to sharpen on a DMT plate and started strouping afterwards, my work got better. Practice and technique are the only answers to the problem. You can watch master craftsman such as Paul Sellers do it and pickup a little about the way you should do it but it is time and practice that does the trick. I even went as far as buying a fence for my plane and it helped a little but again it takes time. One of the main things you can do is learn how to hold the front of the plane correctly with your fingers riding along the side of the board being planed. I know this is not much help, but hang in there you WILL get better. One other thing, leave more material on the waste side to work with when you first start. Good luck.

[Doug Hepler]

I make all rip cuts in my shop with a hand saw or band saw, so almost every rip cut needs a light smoothing to remove saw marks. I use a Veritas Iron Edge-trimming plane or a Veritas jointer fence on a bench plane (usually a #5). This method is quick and predictable even if not as elegant as the solutions suggested. This is a lovely little plane. http://www.leevalley.com/US/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p0301s14.jpg. I also have a Veritas shooting plane. Yes, it works well flat on my workbench as a jointer with a piece of 1/4" ply or Masonite under the workpiece. Its just a bit more complicated to set up.

Doug

[Chris Parks]

Watch the width of the shaving coming off the blade and if it is not full width you will plane more from one side which is fairly obvious. This can be used also to square up a side as well, plane until you have a full width shaving and a square side.

[david charlesworth]

Most craftsmen I know square an edge with a slightly cambered blade.

The ideal set up is when the exposed blade width is about double the thickness of the board, so I don't understand Stan's comment on the previous page.

This gives maximum correction for the depth of cut set.

The center of the plane is simply moved towards the high side. It can drift to and fro during a shaving, so wind and variable error can be dealt with easily.

best wishes,
David

[Brian Holcombe]

Stan's method works perfectly for me. Super fast, especially so on thin stock. He's using the bench as a jig, which does need a straight blade to do the job correctly.

[david charlesworth]

Yes, shooting is probably the only method for very thin stock, where the plane cannot be balanced on the edge.

David