Japanese grillwork name?

[Jamie Buxton]

There is a Japanese method for making a specific grill pattern. It involves making small pieces of wood, and cutting almost all the way through them to make a hinge, where the piece is folded. Does anybody know the name for it?

(This is one of those situations where google search fails. "Japanese grill" brings lots of links to restaurants, and to hibachis.)

[Eric DeSilva]

Try running a google search on "Japanese lattice" and perhaps even "John Reed Fox." Think it might be termed "kumiko," but that is where my google-fu ran out.

[David Wong]

It is called "kumiko". Check out Desmond King's excellent book and website - http://kskdesign.com.au/

[Mel Fulks]

My guess is you are getting a lot of restaurants where they juggle sharp knives. There is a Dover reprint of a book with
hundreds of grill screen patterns ,but I think they are Chinese. That is closest thing to subject I can think of . I have a
copy somewhere ,I'll check index.

[Tony Wilkins]

When John Reed Fox was on The Woodwright's Shop in 2006-7 (IIRC) he gave a short demonstration on how to do it. You can see it on the PBS videos of the show.

[Steve Voigt]

What David said: it's called kumiko, and Des King is the master.
Also, go to Raney's blog (http://www.daedtoolworks.com/blog/), roll over "projects," and select "Japanese." Great stuff.

[Jamie Buxton]

Thank you all. Desmond King has versions I'd never seen before. Lookit http://kskdesign.com.au/kumiko/kumiko/hexagonal_patterns.html That's all highly precise intricate handwork. Amazing!

[Stanley Covington]

In Japanese it is called kumikozaiku　（組子細工）with kumiko referring to the thin strips of wood joined into a latticework (kumi = "joined," ko = "child" or "small") and zaiku (saiku) meaning "handwork."

Kumiko are used to make shoji screens and fusuma doors and other latticework, with all joints at 90 degrees, but kumikozaiku typically refers to kumiko joined at various angles and employing small pieces to form decorative patterns.

The Japanese are very fond of this traditional craft, and for the most part, prefer patterns that reflect natural motifs, whereas the Chinese and Koreans tend to make their latticework a little heavier and use derivations of Chinese letters frequently. Some of it can be extremely complicated. I trained in it, and have done a few shoji and ramma incorporating kumikozaiku for clients many years ago. Its a lot of fun when it comes together. You must own a pretty good dozuki handsaw and be skilled with it (straight, square, proper depth). The following picture is fairly basic stuff and combines three patterns with asanoha at the bottom.

http://www.paw.hi-ho.ne.jp/kumiko-tatematsu/catalog/17-09shouji01.JPG

The following pages show a simple "Asanoha" pattern, probably the most basic kumikozaiku pattern. This level is not too hard to accomplish once you figure out the layout and cutting techniques, and doesn't require specialized tools. The more complicated patterns require involved jigs and expensive planes to cut,and of course, the layout and cutting techniques become more complicated. I never got into the extremely complicated stuff. I think I learned, and tooled up to cut, 6 or 7 basic patterns that could be mixed, matched and combined to create complicated overall patterns.

http://mokkouzyo.web.fc2.com/sub4.html
http://www.tochigi-edu.ed.jp/furusato/detail.jsp?p=67&r=776

Here is a picture of kumikozaiku insanity.

http://www.pref.shimane.lg.jp/kochokoho/esque/2009/No73/07.data/7_01.jpg

[Steve Voigt]

Wow Stan, beautiful work and fascinating info. Thanks for posting this!
Curious whether you think the same level of work could be done with a western style backsaw.

[Stanley Covington]

Wow Stan, beautiful work and fascinating info. Thanks for posting this!
Curious whether you think the same level of work could be done with a western style backsaw.

Interesting question. I learned kumikozaiku on the weekends using a handmade dozuki. The retired master tategushi in Tokyo that was kind enough to teach me had never used anything but a dozuki. He had glaucoma and was blind in one eye and couldn't see out of the other, as the saying goes, but he still did amazing work that was displayed in Museums in Tokyo. When the lessons first began, I already owned a supposedly high-quality handmade dozuki I had bought in Sendai, but Honda san touched his thumb to the teeth, and pinched the blade, and declared it useless for kumikozaiku. When pressed, he told me it was too thick, the back was too heavy, and the teeth had too much set. I bought a replacement consistent with his specifications, and sure enough, my technique improved greatly. He was right.

So I think it is possible to do kumikozaiku with a Western backsaw if (1) the plate is straight and thin; (2) the back is not too heavy (heavy = less fine control); and (3) the teeth are small and very very sharp. Beyond these conditions, it would depend on your skill. The long handle of the dozuki tends to moderate changes in angle and makes it easier to detect a sawblade swinging right/left (versus one traveling perfectly straight). But if you pay careful attention, and work on your technique, I think a good backsaw would do the job.

BTW, I have the saw I bought in Sendai being reworked by a sawsmith right now and look forward to the results.

Stan

[Jack Curtis]

Stanley, thanks for the "kumiko" correction, kind of drove me nuts for the first half of this thread.

I've begun experimenting lately with different V-tools for joining the angled pieces, at 45°, 60°, and 90°; and they seem to be doing the job so far, just couldn't bring myself to buy same angled planes at $600 per. What's more, they offer a more predictable outcome than sawing, again, so far.

[Stanley Covington]

I've begun experimenting lately with different V-tools for joining the angled pieces, at 45°, 60°, and 90°; and they seem to be doing the job so far, just couldn't bring myself to buy same angled planes at $600 per. What's more, they offer a more predictable outcome than sawing, again, so far.

Jack:

Interesting. Are you mounting the V tools in a block like a plane, or just cutting by hand?

Stan

[Jack Curtis]

Jack:

Interesting. Are you mounting the V tools in a block like a plane, or just cutting by hand?

Just cutting by hand for the moment, which does require much more attention than planes would, of course. Very rewarding when all goes well. If this works out, I may fill out the chisel set with other angles, maybe at increments of 10° (35°, 55°, etc.), to build some very custom designs; and if that works as planned, I'll build the raft of dai to hold the chisels.

Funny, I really just stumbled on this idea after Tomohito notified me about an available set of planes, took note of the angles. A couple of days later I came across a small set of V tools that happened to mention the same angles. Couldn't let that coincidence just disappear, although the chisels were too expensive for what they were (ebay junk, rusty, pitted); so I went hunting.

[Charlie Stanford]

Try running a google search on "Japanese lattice" and perhaps even "John Reed Fox." Think it might be termed "kumiko," but that is where my google-fu ran out.

Alan Peters took a trip to Japan to study the architecture and furniture. He was surprised to learn, he recounts in his book Professional Cabinetmaking, that almost to a piece the furniture he liked the most was in fact Korean and not Japanese. And he mentioned, more or less as an aside I suppose, that Koreans work tools on the push stroke like Westerners. I take that at face value, I have no first hand knowledge of it beyond what he wrote in his book.

Might be worth keeping in mind....

[Jack Curtis]

Alan Peters took a trip to Japan to study the architecture and furniture. He was surprised to learn, he recounts in his book Professional Cabinetmaking, that almost to a piece the furniture he liked the most was in fact Korean and not Japanese. And he mentioned, more or less as an aside I suppose, that Koreans work tools on the push stroke like Westerners. I take that at face value, I have no first hand knowledge of it beyond what he wrote in his book.

I don't know what this post means, Charlie. Are you/Alan saying that we should all look to Korea for lattice examples? Or that we should not rely on Google? Or that pushing is indeed better than pulling? Or that westerners are so much better than easterners that we shouldn't even bother looking at eastern woodworking examples? You know, I really could keep this up a while, but that would be boring, so why don't you just tell us why you made that post.

[Charlie Stanford]

I don't know what this post means, Charlie. Are you/Alan saying that we should all look to Korea for lattice examples? Or that we should not rely on Google? Or that pushing is indeed better than pulling? Or that westerners are so much better than easterners that we shouldn't even bother looking at eastern woodworking examples? You know, I really could keep this up a while, but that would be boring, so why don't you just tell us why you made that post.

I suppose that the lesson to be learned is that it's easy to make assumptions. And what was all that Korean furniture doing in Japan in the first place? Peters never commented on that. He loved the Korean furniture. The Japanese architecture was, in fact, Japanese. Bringing all those temples over from Korea would have been a monumental task. So the Japanese settled for only Korean furniture it would seem.

Maybe you can tease some meaning, or lighthearted humour, or something out of it. Maybe. I'm not trying to burst any sacred bubbles. Just passing along an interesting read.

Cheers.

[Jack Curtis]

...Maybe you can tease some meaning, or lighthearted humour, or something out of it. Maybe. I'm not trying to burst any sacred bubbles. Just passing along an interesting read.

But no one's blowing any sacred bubbles, it's that your message didn't seem to make any sense at all. I guess that's it.

[Charlie Stanford]

But no one's blowing any sacred bubbles, it's that your message didn't seem to make any sense at all. I guess that's it.

Jack, I guess the answer is somewhere in the reason my original post perturbed you in the first place. You'll have to figure it out for yourself.

[Jack Curtis]

Jack, I guess the answer is somewhere in the reason my original post perturbed you in the first place. You'll have to figure it out for yourself.

Sorry to disabuse, but I don't get involved enough to be perturbed by nonsense. I asked for elucidation, which you did not give, so as far as I'm concerned, issue over and done. This does not balance in your direction.