Wood River planes

[Lloyd Robins]

I just received a Woodcraft magazine, and it has a couple of new Wood River planes listed. They now have a No. 4 1/2 and a No. 5 1/2. They are not listed on line yet. The 4 1/2 is priced a bit more than the No. 5 and the No. 5 1/2 is about the same price as the No. 6. The No. 4 is also on sale. They must be selling well to add to their line. Although I really, really like LN, I do have a Wood River No. 3, and it is a nice little plane.

[Mike Henderson]

I have the WoodRiver block plane and it's a good plane. I don't use it a whole lot because I prefer my Stanley 65 with the LV Pm-V11 blade but there's nothing wrong with the WR.

Mike

[steven c newman]

and I have the #4 V3 version269500use it instead of sandpaper on projects. Used it enough that it finally needed some work with a hone...

oops, double post....

[Matthew N. Masail]

I have a no.3 and it's a really good plane. but next time I buy one it'll be a LN.

[glenn bradley]

I have a no.3 and it's a really good plane. but next time I buy one it'll be a LN.

I have a rule of thumb; if I have to pay 60% of the price of a high quality item to get a "usable" version, I buy the high quality one.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Right, Quality is enjoyed for so many years\lifetimes it more than pays for itself in satisfaction.

** HOWEVER - To be fair to Woodriver, they are more than just "usable", they are capable of just as fine work and they are very very good. it just doesn't adjust and feel as nice as I'd want in a tool I'll be using for a lifetime.

[Frederick Skelly]

I stopped by a Woodcraft store on a business trip a little while ago. I looked over a Wood River as closely as I was able (still a hand plane newbie). The fit, finish and machining seemed good. I liked the feel in my hands and how it cut.

I decided against it, but only because for about 40% more I could buy Veritas. (I'd had a good month and could swing the extra if I wanted to.) For example, a Wood River #5 is $160 and a #5 1/4 Veritas is $229. But they seemed like nice tools.

(In the end, I didnt buy either and ended up reconditioning an old #5 and installing a modern blade.)

[David Weaver]

I stopped by a Woodcraft store on a business trip a little while ago. I looked over a Wood River as closely as I was able (still a hand plane newbie). The fit, finish and machining seemed good. I liked the feel in my hands and how it cut.

I decided against it, but only because for about 40% more I could buy Veritas. (I'd had a good month and could swing the extra if I wanted to.) For example, a Wood River #5 is $160 and a #5 1/4 Veritas is $229. But they seemed like nice tools.

(In the end, I didnt buy either and ended up reconditioning an old #5 and installing a modern blade.)

It's up to $160? Wow.

[Frederick Skelly]

Yeah David, it really is. I was surprised too.

[Jim Neeley]

The big surprise to me is the #6 at $190 and the #7 at $305... $125 for 4" of length & 1-3/4# of metal.

This while LN asks $375 for the #6 but only $50 extra for the #7.

[Hilton Ralphs]

The big surprise to me is the #6 at $190 and the #7 at $305... $125 for 4" of length & 1-3/4# of metal.


Maybe they figured most folk need a jointer plane but can do without a No.6 (especially after you read Blood & Gore). So they price the No6 to sell.

[john davey]

Oddly Rob Cosman uses his number 6 quite a bit on his weekly web site series. I asked him in the forum he has about it and he just said it was just a personal preference. Since he is sponsored by them he has them all and really does seem to go the the #6 a lot. I have personally never had the chance to try a wood river but have used and own Veritas and Lie-Nielsen as well as rehabbed Stanley's. I buy and sell allot to try things and my try a Wood River just for comparison. Usually resale of things is close enough to where the small loss is worth the test drive.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thats a good idea John. Where do you resell - on ebay or what? Maybe Ill try that approach.

[Lloyd Robins]

The big surprise to me is the #6 at $190 and the #7 at $305... $125 for 4" of length & 1-3/4# of metal.

This while LN asks $375 for the #6 but only $50 extra for the #7.

They probably have to up the price on the jointer to keep a margin when they have one of their sales. As to the price of the 4-1/2 and 5-1/2, it is only slightly higher than ebay prices for the Stanley same size plane. I wonder if the low angle market is next.

[Don Dorn]

Really, that falls somewhat in line with Paul Sellers who on longer or wider stock, goes for a 5 1/2. That said, most of his work is done with a 4 and 4 1/2. Additionally, doesn't Charlesworth prefer a 5 1/2?

[David Weaver]

Charlesworth at least appears in his videos using one plane as a do-all, like alan peters did with a #7.

By far, the best way to figure out what you want to use is to dimension lumber from rough for a few projects. Even if you just joint a face and use a thickness planer on the alternate side, you get a good idea of how to work fast and accurate and with which planes.

If you do most of your dimensioning with power tools, it really makes no difference what type of plane you use. If you don't, you'll find the value of a longer jointer very quickly.

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe due to Patrick Leach, both of my #6s were fairly cheap, $45 total for the both of them. The type 4 needed some parts.

I find myself using them regularly. They make great jumbo jacks and short jointers. They are also good at preliminary smoothing of large panels.

Before getting a LAJ for shooting a lot of my shooting was done with a #6.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I got a Type 11 #6 and a MF fence guide for it, for $85.00 about 5 or 6 years ago at an antique mall. Plane had about 95% japanning and nearly a full iron, with no chips on knob or tote. Thought it was a great buy, but in retrospect, it sits a lot. A fence for squaring stock seems to me to be only training wheels. I can do better now without the fence.

I'll never sell the #6 though, because the look of the plane/size has a lot of panache!

I agree Jim, with your comment about the Leachmiester, but he may be correct about this size plane as he may be about transitionals. Whenever I see him and he has a transitional plane displayed (he sometimes has one or two) I ask if I can have them for firewood.

[Chris Griggs]

I heart 6's :).

[steven c newman]

Do have one #6, a rebuilt from a USPS crash landing DE6c269681 like it better than a Stanley type 9, #8c so I sold the larger plane.

[john davey]

Usually ebay or Craigslist. Classifieds here will get some stuff as well.


Thats a good idea John. Where do you resell - on ebay or what? Maybe Ill try that approach.

[Harold Burrell]

I heart 6's :).

Dude...your avatar...it creeps me out.

I mean, come on. You got cats growing out of your neck. :eek:

[Chris Hachet]

I have the WoodRiver block plane and it's a good plane. I don't use it a whole lot because I prefer my Stanley 65 with the LV Pm-V11 blade but there's nothing wrong with the WR.

MikeNothing wrong with it at All. Was looking at woodcraft at one today. however, the LV and LN planes just have more of a sense of "whoever built me was really passionate about tools" feel. to me that's worth the extra $75-$100 for the tool.

[Chris Hachet]

I have a no.3 and it's a really good plane. but next time I buy one it'll be a LN.LN makes some things I like that make them worth the premium. I want the 5 1/4 and the #3 Bronze with the high angle frog next.

[Chris Hachet]

Right, Quality is enjoyed for so many years\lifetimes it more than pays for itself in satisfaction.

** HOWEVER - To be fair to Woodriver, they are more than just "usable", they are capable of just as fine work and they are very very good. it just doesn't adjust and feel as nice as I'd want in a tool I'll be using for a lifetime.A very good point, even my Stanley sweetheart #4 adjusts much more smoothly and works better IMHO than the wood river #4.

[Jim Koepke]

Nothing wrong with it at All. Was looking at woodcraft at one today. however, the LV and LN planes just have more of a sense of "whoever built me was really passionate about tools" feel. to me that's worth the extra $75-$100 for the tool.

After time has passed one seldom regrets spending a bit extra for the quality or feel. One often regrets a choice made to save a few bucks for the rest of their days.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

Dude...your avatar...it creeps me out.

I mean, come on. You got cats growing out of your neck. :eek:

That's not me Harold!!! :-)

There's got to be someone here who knows who that its.

[David Weaver]

Bubbles!!!!!

[Dave Beauchesne]

Bubbles!!!!! FWIW, our grand daughters father went to school with Bubbles in Nova Scotia - Interesting Canadian comedian / actor.

[Chris Griggs]

YES!!! I didn't think he was that obscure! I love Bubbles!

I think I could have ended up being him if I'd been abandon in a trailer park at the age if 6...as it is, even with my much more fortunate life circumstances, I'm not so different.

[Max Withers]

Well, I got some woodcraft gift certificates and the main thing I need is a shoulder plane, so I was thinking about trying it, but I just don't know. Seems like I could get a functional stanley 93 or record 311 for around $100 on eBay, but I keep thinking I should just save up for a LN, or maybe even a cosmetically challenged infill from a real dealer. On the other hand, what else am I gonna buy from woodcraft? Maybe some water stones?

Basically, I'm just hijacking this thread to ask your opinion about shoulder planes. Not able to justify more than one for the foreseeable future.

[David Weaver]

Can't give much advice on what to buy from Woodcraft. If you have a while, I'd wait until a need presents itself.

I have two shoulder planes. I never use either of them (well, every once in a great while I will use a large shoulder plane, but not for anything to do with tenon shoulders).

If I was smart, I'd sell them. It is miles more satisfying to use chisels for everything I'd generally do with a shoulder plane. That's going to leave some folks wondering about cleaning up rabbets, etc. A good sound and sharp beech rabbet plane does that just fine.

If you are only going to buy one shoulder plane, I would get the veritas medium if you're going to use it on shoulders. If you're going to use it to clean up rabbets, etc, I would get a large of either brand.

[Lloyd Robins]

I would watch their sales flyer and specials. They do have some good deals. I don't use a shoulder plane either, so I cannot comment on the WoodRiver one.

[Tony Zaffuto]

My opinion goes a bit contrary to David's, concerning shoulder planes - I wouldn't be without one! The first I got was the LV medium, and I like it, but it is not used much at all. I had a need for a shoulder plane a bit bigger and I purchased the LN large, and I like it a lot and it is used frequently (much more than the medium). The large size makes it easier (for me) to handle and ease in the hand means more accuracy!

However, the shoulder plane I use the most is a 5/8" (+/- a hair) Preston. It just feels sooooooo good in the mitt that you just can't help but be accurate with it! Problem is Prestons aren't made any more and to get one, you have to find a old tool dealer. I happen to "accumulate Preston tools and when I got this small beauty, I just had to take her for a ride.

If it were me, I would opt for a LN - they're copies of Records which are copies of Prestons. The upside is that if you don't like it, you'll be able to sell it for nearly what you paid for it.

[Don Dorn]

Oddly enough, I don't have a medium shoulder plane but do have a large LN and a small LV. Now that I have them, I find them very handy for fine tuning with the large being used more. That said, I admit that they are not tools that I use often, but when one needs one, the are indispensable for me. With the LN, I learned that it is meant to be pulled rather than pushed, and have discovered that it works so well, that I use the small the same way.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I think it was Chris Gouchner that wrote a very good article in Fine Woodworking a couple years ago on the many uses of a shoulder plane.

[Chris Hachet]

Can't give much advice on what to buy from Woodcraft. If you have a while, I'd wait until a need presents itself.

I have two shoulder planes. I never use either of them (well, every once in a great while I will use a large shoulder plane, but not for anything to do with tenon shoulders).

If I was smart, I'd sell them. It is miles more satisfying to use chisels for everything I'd generally do with a shoulder plane. That's going to leave some folks wondering about cleaning up rabbets, etc. A good sound and sharp beech rabbet plane does that just fine.

If you are only going to buy one shoulder plane, I would get the veritas medium if you're going to use it on shoulders. If you're going to use it to clean up rabbets, etc, I would get a large of either brand.Agree with this. I use chisels mostly for this stuff...but I do want a Veritas Rabbit plane.

[Chris Hachet]

I think it was Chris Gouchner that wrote a very good article in Fine Woodworking a couple years ago on the many uses of a shoulder plane.
Phil Lowe also wrote one if I recall correctly. FWW pretty much recycles the same stuff over and over IMHO....

[Chris Hachet]

Oddly enough, I don't have a medium shoulder plane but do have a large LN and a small LV. Now that I have them, I find them very handy for fine tuning with the large being used more. That said, I admit that they are not tools that I use often, but when one needs one, the are indispensable for me. With the LN, I learned that it is meant to be pulled rather than pushed, and have discovered that it works so well, that I use the small the same way.A lot of planes work well pulled rather than pushed.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Phil Lowe also wrote one if I recall correctly. FWW pretty much recycles the same stuff over and over IMHO....
Chris Gochnour's article was in FWW #187 and before that he reviewed some shoulder planes in FWW #171. Philip Lowe does some awesome stuff though.

[steven c newman]

for a rabbet plane, I have a Stanley made for Wards #78. I can take the items off, and lay the plane on its side as a large shoulder plane, too

The Wood river I have now is the second one, as the first had the wrong chipbreaker on it. Might have been for a V2 instead of the V3 ? Once they replaced the "bad plane" on thier dime, the new one works just fine. Fine enough that i don't need to sand anymore...

[Max Withers]

Well David, why don't you just saw to the line instead of wasting time with chisels? Joking! I am doing my shoulders with chisels, but I don't seem to have as easy a time of it as you do. I guess I should just practice, but the existence of a fancy tool specifically for the problem I'm having is... distracting.

Steven, I tried my 78 on some shoulders, but it did not like the end grain. I should sharpen better and try again.

And Tony, I've had my eye out for a Preston, but they're not easy to come by, unless you like to feed everyone's favorite self-proclaimed "shark" on ebay. Which I do not. Even when honest dealers have them, they are still not cheap.

The interesting thing about the Wood River shoulder is that they copied a Preston directly (and made it considerably uglier), instead of copying LN's version of a Record copy of a Preston. I'm not sure that's interesting enough for me though.

Much as I love Lee Valley, I'm not a fan of the look of the Veritas shoulder. But I don't really want to be that guy, the one who buys a possibly inferior product (or at least one with fewer set screws) because it looks "cool." So if I buy something old I don't have to be that guy, but the old ones are so expensive (relative to, say, bench planes), that it seems stupid not buy a new one that's actually square! The good thing about this ridiculous dilemma is that it's preventing me from spending money instead of vice versa.

[David Weaver]

Well David, why don't you just saw to the line instead of wasting time with chisels? Joking! I am doing my shoulders with chisels, but I don't seem to have as easy a time of it as you do. I guess I should just practice, but the existence of a fancy tool specifically for the problem I'm having is... distracting.

Yeah, I don't know if I'd ever call getting a good fit easy. If you want it tight, the most important thing is a well struck deep marking line all the way around and removing most of whatever is above the marking line so that the chisel doesn't try to push through the marking line. I wanted to like the shoulder plane, but in the end, I found it a little easier to use the chisels. There's no issue if the chisel line is large or small ("which size shoulder plane is best with this tenon" syndrome), and I don't have the tendency to do anything other than cut exactly at the marking line wiht the chisels, leaving a tiny bit of clean up at the corners of the M&T. A slight undercut makes the fit tight and any tiny stray marks from the chisels disappear with glue.

The only tip I can offer that I haven't seen a lot of (i've seen a lot of talk of "paring the shoulders" which to me is a rough job with a wide chisel in hardwoods) is to lay whatever piece has the tenon down if you can - on the bench, and chop to the line. Maybe it's just me, but I have a lot more control with light taps of a mallet, and I can pare with a narrow chisel on the narrow side of the tenon and that's good enough.

There's nothing quick about them, though, so I don't want to create the illusion that I or anyone else is doing precise tenons in some athletic way spinning out a mortise and tenon every five minutes. I just have a better time with the chisels and the good deep mark.

[Chris Griggs]

For tenon shoulders on most furniture sized tenons I have better luck with deep line and chisel as well. I do have the LV medium shoulder plane, it does get used a good bit, and I do quite like it, but it really doesn't get used much on tenon shoulder. I tend to use it for things like trimming rabbets on panels or the backs of cases or fitting tongues and sliding dovetails.

I think its really nice to have one shoulder plane around. Not that I wouldn't like more, but I think just having one of just about any size will take care of most rabbeting tasks. I think the key is to get one that is comfortable and that will be wide enough to cover the majority of rabbets in the scale of your work. Width really isn't a concern with tenon shoulder...its very very rare that one would have a shoulder over 3/8" and pretty much all the shoulder planes on the market are at least 1/2".

I had the little LN infill and though I loved it I found that is was periodically a little too small for things, so I sold it and got the medium LV (would have kept the LN too but needed the $$ for something larger). I would really like a large shoulder plane but honestly I have yet to encounter a situation where the LV med wasn't wide enough to do what I wanted it to do (w/o needing to take overlapping strokes). I really think any of the shoulder planes in the greater than 1/2" sizes will cover the vast majority of what you'd need a shoulder plane to do. I pretty much never have a rabbet that is wider than 3/4" and the vast majority are closer to 1/2".

[Tony Zaffuto]

Well David, why don't you just saw to the line instead of wasting time with chisels? Joking! I am doing my shoulders with chisels, but I don't seem to have as easy a time of it as you do. I guess I should just practice, but the existence of a fancy tool specifically for the problem I'm having is... distracting.

Steven, I tried my 78 on some shoulders, but it did not like the end grain. I should sharpen better and try again.

And Tony, I've had my eye out for a Preston, but they're not easy to come by, unless you like to feed everyone's favorite self-proclaimed "shark" on ebay. Which I do not. Even when honest dealers have them, they are still not cheap.

The interesting thing about the Wood River shoulder is that they copied a Preston directly (and made it considerably uglier), instead of copying LN's version of a Record copy of a Preston. I'm not sure that's interesting enough for me though.

Much as I love Lee Valley, I'm not a fan of the look of the Veritas shoulder. But I don't really want to be that guy, the one who buys a possibly inferior product (or at least one with fewer set screws) because it looks "cool." So if I buy something old I don't have to be that guy, but the old ones are so expensive (relative to, say, bench planes), that it seems stupid not buy a new one that's actually square! The good thing about this ridiculous dilemma is that it's preventing me from spending money instead of vice versa.

I fed "the Ebay shark" at a tool sale in person about 4, 5 or 6 years ago, and most of the sales one could go to, you have the sellers willing to negotiate just a tad. The shark wouldn't budge and I had to have the Preston, so I paid the price!

[Lloyd Robins]

I checked on line at Woodcraft for information about the Woodriver shoulder plane. They have a rather generic description, but if it the sides a sole are square and the sole flat, it ought to work. They seem to say that the blade is A2, but that would be something to check out. Also, I realized that I said that I don't use a shoulder plane, and I don't, but I have a rabbet block plane and a router plane for most situations where a shoulder plane might be used.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I checked on line at Woodcraft for information about the Woodriver shoulder plane. They have a rather generic description, but if it the sides a sole are square and the sole flat, it ought to work. They seem to say that the blade is A2, but that would be something to check out. Also, I realized that I said that I don't use a shoulder plane, and I don't, but I have a rabbet block plane and a router plane for most situations where a shoulder plane might be used.

It also goes without saying the bed for the blade must be coplanar to the sole. I have an English Stanley #90 that suffered so many ills, that I considered it a plane kit! The most egregious problem was what I just mentioned: blade bed not coplanar to the sole (not skewed, but out of coplanar!). It took one of my machinists 2 or 3 hours of work to correct all of the ills of the plane and what I ended up with is a plane that is now near perfect, but not used very much at all!